I'm helping a friend who purchased a c.1985 Outrage 18 that is in good condition, but needs a little love to get her back to her former glory.
In the bow area the fiberglass and gel coat was wavy and exhibited cracks, so a little slit was cut to see what was going on behind. The closed cell foam that was removed was soaking wet and could be wrung out like a kitchen sponge, so a larger access was cut and foam removal continued until no additional waterlogged foam could be found. The boat has never had any fiberglass work or optionally installed deck fittings, and our theory is the deck bollard and possibly the rail fitting were allowing water to enter through the fiberglass. The wrinkles in the fiberglass and gel coat were from the winter temperatures where the water in the foam would freeze and expand.
Owners of [c.1985 18-foot classic hulls] and other hulls may want to inspect all deck fittings and re-bed as the bedding compound does not last forever and does need to be renewed.
Here are several views of the bow area. The lighting was poor and the camera phone lens dirty. There appears to be shading in the pics, but that is a function of the image captured since there is no discoloration in the boat at all.
Fig. 1. The forward cockpit with deformation of the laminate and gel coat.
Fig. 2. Exploratory slits cut to assess foam condition.
Fig. 3. Removed wet foam.
Fig. 4. Wet foam after water squeezed out by hand.
Fig. 5. Much larger section of the hull liner removed for access to interior wet foam.
Fig. 6. All foam removed from hull interior where wet foam was found.
Fig. 7. Overall view showing volume of wet foam removed, some in blocks.
The fiberglass piece was saved and will be glassed back in and re-foamed with a closed cell foam to the repair.
D-
c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Thanks for this interesting contribution of a possible risk of failure in older classic 18-foot hulls.
Did this particular OUTRAGE 18 have the teak bow pulpit option?
The reason for my question: perhaps the teak bow pulpit was able to exert leverage onto the foredeck of the hull and onto the fasteners holding the pulpit to the hull.
Also, in Figure 5 I see what looks like a trolling motor mounting bracket. The mounting of that bracket and its fasteners could also be a source of a path for water ingress into the hull interior.
The mooring bit often seen on these OUTRAGE models rises off the deck by several inches. A line attached to the mooring bit at the top of the bit would be able to create a bending moment of the bit onto the deck. That might also create stress on the fasteners or work the deck laminate slightly, leading to possibilities of water ingress.
Did this particular OUTRAGE 18 have the teak bow pulpit option?
The reason for my question: perhaps the teak bow pulpit was able to exert leverage onto the foredeck of the hull and onto the fasteners holding the pulpit to the hull.
Also, in Figure 5 I see what looks like a trolling motor mounting bracket. The mounting of that bracket and its fasteners could also be a source of a path for water ingress into the hull interior.
The mooring bit often seen on these OUTRAGE models rises off the deck by several inches. A line attached to the mooring bit at the top of the bit would be able to create a bending moment of the bit onto the deck. That might also create stress on the fasteners or work the deck laminate slightly, leading to possibilities of water ingress.
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
In Figure 5 above, are the two black vertical items seen in the hull interior where the liner has been cut away just recesses in the foam where you earlier had removed foam through a smaller cut-out?
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
No pics nor figures that I can see.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
biggiefl wrote:No pics nor figures that I can see.
Try a different browser. The images are there when I load the page on multiple devices.
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
jimh wrote:Thanks for this interesting contribution of a possible risk of failure in older classic 18-foot hulls.
Did this particular OUTRAGE 18 have the teak bow pulpit option?
The reason for my question: perhaps the teak bow pulpit was able to exert leverage onto the foredeck of the hull and onto the fasteners holding the pulpit to the hull.
Also, in Figure 5 I see what looks like a trolling motor mounting bracket. The mounting of that bracket and its fasteners could also be a source of a path for water ingress into the hull interior.
The mooring bit often seen on these OUTRAGE models rises off the deck by several inches. A line attached to the mooring bit at the top of the bit would be able to create a bending moment of the bit onto the deck. That might also create stress on the fasteners or work the deck laminate slightly, leading to possibilities of water ingress.
Thanks for cleaning up my post and labeling. Let me take on the questions asked:
- This boat does not have a pulpit option, just the OEM Whaler bit
- Figure 5 shows the bit moved to the right, not a trolling motor mount. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but there are no modifications to this boat, and everything is original Whaler.
D-
Last edited by dtmackey on Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
jimh wrote:In Figure 5 above, are the two black vertical items seen in the hull interior where the liner has been cut away just recesses in the foam where you earlier had removed foam through a smaller cut-out?
Yes, that is correct. When exploring, it's always best to start small to keep the repair small, but as things progressed, larger and larger areas were removed until there was a level of comfort that all the waterlogged foam was removed.
D-
- Don McIntyre - MI
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:33 pm
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Based on the location, I'm pretty sure that the water penetration is primarily due to the center mooring bit, with possible further penetration from the bow rail stanchions. I'm not sure how much attention (if any the factory placed on proper bedding of those holes.
The best way to prevent [water ingress] in the future is to use the West System Epoxy technician's recommendation:
That way you've created an annulus of epoxy, eliminating the chance of water penetration in the future.
Are you guys doing it yourselves?
And if so, how experienced are you at FRP repair?
Regards - Don
The best way to prevent [water ingress] in the future is to use the West System Epoxy technician's recommendation:
- --re-drill the four (in this example) mooring bit holes, significantly larger than required
--tape off the bottoms of the holes
--mix up a slow curing time batch epoxy
--pour into the holes and let setup overnight
--re-drill to the proper size.
That way you've created an annulus of epoxy, eliminating the chance of water penetration in the future.
Are you guys doing it yourselves?
And if so, how experienced are you at FRP repair?
Regards - Don
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
I think the fun (a euphemism for difficult to accomplish) part of the repair will be to replace the foam that has been carved out with new high-density foam, and to eliminate pockets of no foam in the process. For advice, see the reproduction of Boston Whaler's instructions at
- INSTRUCTIONS -- HULL PATCH KITS
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... tions.html
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Don McIntyre - MI wrote:Based on the location, I'm pretty sure that the water penetration is primarily due to the center mooring bit, with possible further penetration from the bow rail stanchions. I'm not sure how much attention (if any the factory placed on proper bedding of those holes.
And if so, how experienced are you at FRP repair?
Regards - Don
Hi Don,
Let's just say this isn't our first rodeo and between us we have 60 years of rebuilding projects boats with a number of Whalers in the mix. Two of the (non-Whaler) boats we restored independently were featured in the same online boat restoration magazine about 13 years ago.
Here's a couple of our previous project - this one is mine from the early 90s.
My refoamed a Montauk 17 gunwale to gunwale after it went on the rocks. This was my project.
Bob removed the top skin and all the waterlogged foam in a 13" and then refoamed and redid the interior.
D-
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Foaming is complete. A piece of flexible plastic was cut that is roughly the same thickness as the piece of fiberglass that was cutout. This was screwed to a thin piece of flexible plywood, which was then screwed to the curvature of the hull The 3 openings allowed for injection of the foam far into the hollowed out area and it could be monitored as it expanded and rose to the bottom of the deck before the excess came out the openings.
Foaming fixture.
Foaming fixture in place.
Foam expanded and then came out the pour holes once the cavity was full.
Foam completed.
Now the decision has to be made if the piece that was cutout can be saved due to the waviness. Ideally if it can be saved, then tabs can be epoxied into the lip of the inner liner and a mix of cabosil/epoxy paste can be applied to the backside and pushed into place. Upon curing, the seam would be ground down and then a strip of glass epoxied in, followed with another that's a little wider.
D-
Foaming fixture.
Foaming fixture in place.
Foam expanded and then came out the pour holes once the cavity was full.
Foam completed.
Now the decision has to be made if the piece that was cutout can be saved due to the waviness. Ideally if it can be saved, then tabs can be epoxied into the lip of the inner liner and a mix of cabosil/epoxy paste can be applied to the backside and pushed into place. Upon curing, the seam would be ground down and then a strip of glass epoxied in, followed with another that's a little wider.
D-
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
Heya--that is a very crafty approach to instilling new foam. I am impressed with the ingenuity.
Re: c.1985 OUTRAGE 18: Wet Foam in Bow with Distortion of Liner
I purchased an RPS seat from someone on this site several weeks back. Today the new tank was delivered from Luther's. The welds are like artwork and great quality.
https://i.img[img]ur.com/jBQaXYZm.jpg[/img]
Boat is coming along.
D-
https://i.img[img]ur.com/jBQaXYZm.jpg[/img]
Boat is coming along.
D-