Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Repair or modification of Boston Whaler boats, their engines, trailers, and gear
dleopoldi914
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:57 pm

Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby dleopoldi914 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:31 pm

On my Montauk 17 the [base mountign plate for a] hand rail came out [of the deck attachment point]. The previous owner told me to [refasten the rail base to the deck] use rivets. He said [to choose the rivets by getting] the kind that are used on kayaks

i found [in some never identified page] on continiouswave to use 3/16-inch X 5/8-inch rivets.

I am enclosing [an image that purports to show] what I purchased. I used [that I purchased] on on rail by putting 5200 sealant and then the rivet and it held. One of the other areas the rail came up and tried the same thing and the rivet cannot remove from the hole in the rail and it won’t stick to the hull.

I am enclosing pictures [and ask you] what you think?

I am going to [purchase] tri rivets from West Marine. It looks like the rivet is not expanding correctly.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-mar ... --13837463

I am also changing the gun to try something else.

dleopoldi914
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Re: Rub rail question

Postby dleopoldi914 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:41 pm

[The rivet gun used was a Stanley MR100 CG Contractor Grade Riveter. The rivets used were Stanley Paa610-5B Aluminum Rivet 3/16-inch x 5/8-inch.]

[Deleted very large image that were pictures of this text.]

dleopoldi914
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Rub rail question

Postby dleopoldi914 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:42 pm

Here it is how it expanded. DOesn't seem to have expanded well...
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jimh
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:50 pm

dleopoldi914 wrote:i found on continiouswave [sic] to use 3/16-inch X 5/8-inch rivets.


Where? Please give the URL to the information you make reference to.

Your post was originally titled "Rub Rail question", but the post was talking about hand rail bases, based on the image you show of a hand rail base.

Using rivets to secure the plastic molded rub rail sections is often recommended. But I don't see any posts about using those very short rivets to secure the base of railing posts. I suspect you probably misunderstood what you were reading.

That the person who sold you the boat advised you to use rivets as fasteners for the rail bases really carries ZERO influence with me. Ditto for his advice to use rivets that "are used on Kayaks." I think you got sent down the wrong path with that advice.

If you would like advice from CONTINUOUSWAVE's resources about how to repair rail bases, please read the FAQ answer to FAQ Question 7"

Q7: How Do I Repair Loose Railing Anchor Bases?

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q7

That is the best advice that I am aware of that is provided here on CONTINUOUSWAVE as a remedy for your problem.

dtmackey
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby dtmackey » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:49 pm

Rivets and rail base is not a good idea. I used 10 X 1-1/4 POHSMS (phillips oval head sheet metal screws) and they "bite" right into the wood in the Whaler, rivets are just a bad idea. If #10 is stripped, you can bump up to #12.

Image
Image

I know that Whaler used rivets for the rubrail and after removing several I can say that I'd have preferred they used stainless pan head sheet metal screws. Rivets are a big hassle to remove since they require drilling and I have found over many Whaler projects that when they pull out (and they do on older boats) it leave a larger hole. My current 15 project I spent 3 hours addressing rubrail problems due to rivets that could have been 30 mins if screws were used.

For replacement rubrails and rivets (if you decide this route) I would ONLY use a pneumatic rivet gun since the manual hand models require so much grip strength that the rivet does not sit still at the critical moment before the shank breaks away and this can cause problems.

D-

dleopoldi914
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby dleopoldi914 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:14 am

Screws look like the route to go. I just screw them in no 5200 in the hole or lock tite. Do I drill a pilot hole?

dleopoldi914
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby dleopoldi914 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:58 pm

Ok size 10 1.25 was a little loose but all west marine had. I filled the holes really good with 5200 and put tons on the base I ordered size 12 1.5 inch and when these comes will take out the smaller ones and fill more 5200 in the holes and add the bigger screws.

What you think ?

[Two more replies have been deleted—jimh]

dtmackey
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby dtmackey » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:43 pm

SLOW DOWN COWBOY, what's the rush? 4 posts looking for direction in a half a day and you get inpatient and go the wrong direction?

Thread lock has no business with fiberglass, wood and or SMS screws, a quick Google search will provide that information. You have already botched the hole by listening to bad advise using rivets, so there's no idea what we are working with here, other than a couple pics that show little to no detail. What's the rush to continue down another road that you've decided without input that will result in another botched repair?

If the hole is enlarged (and probably is after being molested by a rivet) why not think about filling it with something solid, which 5200 is not. Epoxy is a good start and there are references to that process on this site and plenty of others. You need to create a good base for the screw threads to grab and 5200 is not the material you want if you want it to last.

D-

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Phil T
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby Phil T » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:30 am

You can use a marine epoxy like Marine Tex or Loc Tite to fill the hole. Once cured, you should pre-drill .

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/marine-tex-epoxy-putty-repair-kit-white.html

https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Marine-Epoxy/50436714
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

Whalerdog
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby Whalerdog » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:56 pm

Like stated above epoxy solid and redrill. West systems makes syringe to inject it in the hole. If using epoxy mix with a filler to thicken it. Forget about rivets as stated above hand rivet guns are for light rivets. BW probably used something heavier than a hand gun would ever install.

jimh
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Re: Using Rivets to Secure Rail Base

Postby jimh » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:19 pm

When seeking advice and getting excellent advice in response, the most reasonable action to take is to follow the advice.