Looking for First Boat

[old-is-good]

After lurking for many months and doing a lot of research on this forum and a couple of others, I'm in the market for our first boat. I initially thought the Montauk 17 was what I wanted, but then I read about the Montauk 190, and then the Outrage 17 and 18, and then the Dauntless 16 and 18, and so on. I researched some other brands like the Parker 1801, too.

Since this will be our first boat, safety is the number one priority--which led me to the Whaler brand in the first place. I also want something easy to trailer and easy for one person to handle. The boat will primarily be used on inland lakes for fishing and cruising and sometimes used to pull a tube. Most of the time there will be two people but I can see instances needing room for five adults.

There is a Dauntless 16 that is near me that looks really nice but I've read mixed review about them. There's also a Parker 1801 for sale nearby that is really nice.

The more research I do, the more confused I get. I'm hoping that this forum can get me on the right track so I don't make an expensive mistake.

My wife saw the Dauntless 18 and really likes it, but, to me, it doesn't look like it lends itself too well for fishing; but I could be wrong. I was hoping to find something in the [under $15,000] if possible.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. Having never owned a boat before, I'm a little intimidated by it all. Please let me know you're thoughts or recommendations.

[Masbama]

I have a Dauntless 18. Works well for me when I fish. What kind of fishing do you do?

[LCnSac]

For your budget you can find a 170 Montauk in good shape. That will have a 4 stroke which you'll want for your first boat. For $10K -$13K (CA prices) you can find a 17 Montauk, pre-2000, but repowered with a 4 stroke. Either would be fine for two or three fishing, and could hold five people. I would constrain your search to those primarily, partially because you can handle either on your own, especially the classic 17 Montauk, and you will probably want something different sooner than later as you haven't owned a boat yet. The Dauntless 18 is good too, but larger. I would stop at the Dauntless for ease of handling, budget considerations, and resale. There is always a market for all those models, especially the first two.

[old-is-good]

I misspoke on the Dauntless 18. I meant to say the Dauntless 17 which is the runabout configuration. I'm not sure how that would be when fishing although I'm sure you could probably make it work.
We usually fish for bass....or whatever is biting that day.
The Dauntless 18 looks really nice.
So the Outrage 18 may be a little too much boat for a first timer ?

[LCnSac]

For your type of fishing, which is similar to mine, the only reason you'd need anything larger than a 15' or even 13' is to accommodate more people. Keep in mind the classic Boston Whalers (generally pre 2000), are smaller and lighter, and the post classics (130, 150, 170) are wider, a little longer, and a little deeper. The post classics are drier and ride better. The classics are lighter, closer to the water, can be faster, but definitely have less room.

My 170 Montauk was [more than I needed for just me], but it would handle five people okay. The problem with center consoles in small skiffs is they take up a ton of room. Actually your ideal boat is probably a 170 Sport, but they are very scarce; I don't know if I've ever seen one. I have the next size down now, the 150 Sport, but five people would be a real stretch.

Yes, the Dauntless 17 would probably be absolutely perfect in size and configuration for you, now that I look at it. You'd have to look into the reputation; I know the Dauntlesss 18 but not the 17--others will. You're thinking correctly for the configuration you need, not what is the most common. I would not look at anything bigger.

[jimh]

Consider who will actually be using the boat. Many men envision that their entire family will be aboard all the time the boat is in use. The reality is usually different. When the boat is something new, maybe the family goes out as a big group a few times. Next year the kids are older, they want to hang out with their friends, and your wife is not that keen to go out on the water. Now you are fishing by yourself, or maybe with one other person. Will you really need a boat that can handle five adults and be able to also tow some water sport toys dragging two kids through the water? Probably not.

If you want a family boat, get a pontoon. They are much less expensive than Boston Whaler boats.

I don't think you can get a recent-model used Boston Whaler boat for under $15,000. To get a sense of prices, go to BOATTRADER.COM and use their search. Select the manufacturer to be Boston Whaler, and limit the length or the price. You can see what boats are on the market and their asking prices.

If you are going to be trailering the boat, check the ratings of your tow vehicle. Many modern vehicles, even so-called SUV vehicles, have abysmal tow ratings these days. Tow ratings are usually given with only the driver in the vehicle. Any person or any gear in the vehicle subtracts from the tow rating. For example, if a vehicle is rated at 1,500-lbs tow rating, and you have four adult passengers in the car that weigh 180-lbs each, you have to reduce the tow rating by 4 × 180 = 720-lbs. Now your vehicle is only rated to tow 780-lbs. Do not underestimate the towed weight. A boat on a trailer with some gear and fuel will typically represent a towed weight of about twice the dry hull weight.

[old-is-good]

I have a 2010 F-150 for towing so that shouldn't be a problem.
I agree that 90% of the time only two people will be fishing.
The Dauntless 16 near me has a 90 hp on it and I've read complaints of it being sluggish and stern heavy.
I really like the simplicity of the Montauks but I can't seem to find any used ones near me although I wouldn't mind traveling a couple of hours for the right boat.

A pontoon is something I've also considered but really like the looks of the Whalers.

[LCnSac]

Although I agree with every word above, maybe the man just wants a Boston Whaler boat. Once you get that in your head, often the only cure is to get one. At least he's looking at a configuration that could work for him, and it's why I've encouraged him to get a popular model so if it isn't right he can get out either side of what he paid for it.

This happened to me when I bought the 170 Montauk. I figured it was a good compromise. I could fish from it, pull a tube and a wakeboard. Didn't happen. The family hated it, mainly because it wasn't a wakeboard boat and not foul with upholstery and a sun deck. It wasn't the right fishing boat for me either. Now I have a fishing boat that my wife can enjoy on occasion, but I didn't buy it for her. We may end up with a tritoon as well, but as a second boat, no more compromises.

On the towing topic, we all look at capacity, and often forget about stopping. I bought a Subaru Outback recently for a daily, towing capacity of 3000 lbs. My boat is about 1700 lbs., so it should be fine, haven't tried it yet as I do have a good towing vehicle, but with 200K miles on it. But will it stop the boat safely at freeway speeds? Will it trigger the need for surge brakes installed on the trailer if I want to tow it frequently? I don't know, but I'm sure it's on the edge of safety.

[jimh]

With an F-150 you can tow anything; you're in good shape.

There is a reason the MONTAUK boat has been in production for 50-years: it is a great configuration. If you are going boating on inland lakes, a MONTAUK is plenty of boat. And you won't have any problem selling one if you decide to get something different.

You are shopping at the wrong time of year: prices are highest now and demand is greatest. If you see a nice boat at a good price, move quickly.

[GoldenDaze]

The 160 Dauntless performs well with the 90hp 2-stroke. The 90hp 4-stroke is a significantly heavier engine and to my mind not very desirable on this boat. Either of the 115 offerings (2- or 4-stroke) are fine.

It is true that the boat is a bit stern-heavy. Older models before approximately 2000 have a notch in the transom below the waterline, that was removed in later years to add a bit more stern buoyancy. This boat has a huge (for its size) 45-gallon internal tank, so you can keep the boat light by not filling up all the way if you like. I added a hydrofoil to my lower unit with good results.

Let me know if there's anything in particular you'd like to know about the 160 Dauntless.

I have several friends with 170 Montauks, which are also very nice boats. Compared to the Dauntless, you give up the internal fuel tank, some storage, and the rear quarter seats. Moving up to the 180 Dauntless is a significant increase in size, weight, and price. I don't know that you'll find a nice one in your budget. A classic (pre-2003) Montauk 17 is also a nice choice, and there are usually lots to choose from, but being older you'll need to be carefully evaluating engines. The classic 17 is a narrower boat than the newer 170 Montauks or the Dauntless.

-Bob

[Harpoon]

When I first got into boating, I bought a used fish-n-ski to see if the family liked boating. I had heard of Whalers, but did not know much about them. When looking to upgrade (after one season), I was speaking to a Carolina Skiff dealer about boats in general. He mentioned that a skiff was trying to copy Boston Whaler, which was the best in the industry. Shortly after that, I found a deal on a Dauntless 18 which has been a great boat for me alone or for the whole family tubing and skiing.
That Carolina Skiff dealer is now a good friend and no longer sells Skiffs (I can't convince him to be a Whaler dealer).

He did repower the Dauntless 18 last year with a Suzuki 150 four stroke which is a dramatic improvement over the Optimax 135.

The Dauntless 17 with dual console looks like a good choice to keep the wind off of you if fishing in colder weather.

[old-is-good]

Thanks for all the responses so far. You've all made good points about a first boat.
It's looking like a Dauntless of some variety or a Montauk 17 right now. I realize that now is not the best time to buy a boat but I'm in no hurry. If it takes me a couple of months to find something, that's fine. I don't think I can really go wrong with either Whaler but just trying to find one that's a good fit. If it was just me, it would be a Montauk. But my wife wants a run-about type. We'll just have to make a compromise. This is why we never bought a boat before.

I keep reading about water intrusion into these Whaler hulls. Is it that much of a problem or is it a rare occurrence ? Other than weighing a boat, are there any tell tale signs of water inside the hull?

Also, I read about the integral fuel tanks of some models needing to be replaced at some point in the boat's life. Is there any way to verify the integrity of the tank?

What about spider cracks in the gel coat of an older boat ? How much is too much ? Does this just come with age or are there ways to prevent this from happening?

Thanks again for everyone's time.

[jimh]

I keep reading about water intrusion into these Whaler hulls. Is it that much of a problem or is it a rare occurrence ? Other than weighing a boat, are there any tell tale signs of water inside the hull?

Water only "intrudes" into the inner space between the double bottom hulls when owners damage the hull and do not repair it. See the FAQ on this topic: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q3

[jimh]

Also, I read about the integral fuel tanks of some models needing to be replaced at some point in the boat's life. Is there any way to verify the integrity of the tank?

There are some Boston Whaler boats whose fuel tanks have been sitting in water or water-soaked foam surrounds for many years that have failed. The potential is there due to the design of the fuel tank cavity; water can get in there. On the other hand, you can find plenty of 30-year-old boats with no problems. It is really a case of how the boat was cared for.

Fuel tanks with leaks usually are easily detected by the smell of gasoline. A pressure test of the tank can detect leaks.

[jimh]

What about spider cracks in the gel coat of an older boat ? How much is too much ? Does this just come with age or are there ways to prevent this from happening?

The condition of the gel coat of an older boat is entirely related to the care provided. There are 30-year-old boats with no spider cracks. Gel coat that has been given proper routine care does not develop spider cracks.

In some areas where gel coat tended to be applied a bit too thick, such as in concavities in the surface, you might see a small stress crack due to the normal flexing of the hull. These are minor cosmetic problems.

[GoldenDaze]

There are some Boston Whaler boats whose fuel tanks have been sitting in water or water-soaked foam surrounds for many years that have failed.

I believe Jim is referring to corrosion of aluminum fuel tanks. While I can't speak for every model, in general the Dauntless boats have polyethylene tanks that are not subject to corrosion. Absent some unlikely mechanical failure of the tank, their lifespan is for all practical purposes unlimited. That's not the case with the fuel lines, of course, but those are easily replaced as needed.

-Bob

[old-is-good]

After more research and reading the links posted above, it looks like the Montauk 17, Dauntless 16/17/18, or maybe an Outrage 17 are the boats I'm focusing on. I found an Outrage 17 on-line barely within my price range but didn't know if that was [excessive] for what and where I'm going to be using it and for a first boat. I also don't know how easy it is to trailer by myself.

The Dauntless models have a lot of nice features but may be difficult to find a nice one in my price range.

Then there's the venerable Montauk 17. I like the looks, simplicity and efficiency of this boat. I am a little concerned about comfort and ride but don't know if that will be a concern on inland lakes.

It seems everything in life is a compromise of some sort or another. I'm just trying to decide on what I will compromise. I guess everyone has to start somewhere with boat ownership and that's what I'm wrestling with. Sometimes I think I should just get one and get "the first one" out of the way.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and suggestions.

[jimh]

The ease of accomplishing boat launching from or loading to a trailer without assistance is really not a direct function of the boat size in boats of 16 to 18-feet length. Ease of launching is related more to the trailer set-up, the ramp being used, and the presence of a courtesy dock. A single-hander can easily launch or load any of the Boston Whaler boats in the 16 to 18 foot range as long as they are properly set-up on their trailers, the ramp has decent slope and depth, and there is a courtesy dock at the ramp so the boat can be temporarily moored while the trailer and truck are moved to parking. Trailer boaters with good trailer set-up, using good ramps, with courtesy docks really need very little assistance, and often actually will have better outcomes without assistance from well-intended good samaritans who might offer to help.

[old-is-good]

Do they make a cushion to fit over the teak rps seat back on the older Montauk 17's ?
I did a search but could only find the OEM type for the later models.
That wooden seat back looks mighty uncomfortable.

[LCnSac]

The ease of accomplishing boat launching from or loading to a trailer without assistance is really not a direct function of the boat size in boats of 16 to 18-feet length. Ease of launching is related more to the trailer set-up, the ramp being used, and the presence of a courtesy dock. A single-hander can easily launch or load any of the Boston Whaler boats in the 16 to 18 foot range as long as they are properly set-up on their trailers, the ramp has decent slope and depth, and there is a courtesy dock at the ramp so the boat can be temporarily moored while the trailer and truck are moved to parking. Trailer boaters with good trailer set-up, using good ramps, with courtesy docks really need very little assistance, and often actually will have better outcomes without assistance from well-intended good samaritans who might offer to help.

I will disagree some with the authority here :-). You still have increased mass with a larger hull, and especially in conditions of wind and current and tide, the forces we face in the California Delta, the smaller the hull, the easier it is to move the boat around with lines when using a courtesy dock. If you are always driving on and off the trailer, then it makes less difference. It really comes down largely to water displacement and the mass of hull above the water line. Still, in the Boston Whaler Montauk and Dauntless lines, an 18 foot boat is certainly manageable for one with some preparation and as you say Jim, a proper trailer and decent ramp, however i have no doubt the 17' Montauk would be noticeably easier.

[jimh]

I would like to know the difference in forces between a 16-foot and 18-foot boat. I think they're really insignificant. If you can launch a 16-footer by yourself at a ramp, you most certainly can launch an 18-footer. There really is not much difference. If there is some small difference, it is nothing that is going to mandate two people instead of one. Guys launch 32-footers by themselves. It just takes the right ramp, the right trailer set-up, and the right method.

Watch this presentation; it is bit long, but it has some good ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajrwuv7aCLw

[LCnSac]

Watch this presentation; it is bit long, but it has some good ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajrwuv7aCLw

That is a very good video. I like his bow line setup, hadn't thought of that. Keep in mind however, he's in absolutely perfect conditions. With wind, tide, current, a boat tied to the first position, and less than ideal dock facilities, it might prove to be a little more difficult. Plus, he does it every day, and that alone accounts for a lot of his launching acumen.

I won't argue further over length. I just know there's a difference for me.

[old-is-good]

I understand what you are both saying. All things considered equal, I can see that it shouldn't make a difference as to loading and unloading. However, more mass increases the possibility of damage if things go wrong.

I found a 1987 Montauk 17 with a 1987 Johnson 90 with 600 hours on it that seems like a definite candidate. I haven't looked at it in person yet but I'm supposed to get more pictures tomorrow. The thought of a 30 year old outboard does have me concerned though. Even though it supposedly runs perfectly, time is not on that engines side. That's probably why it hasn't sold yet. Even if I got it for a good price, if I had to re-power it in a few years, I could've spent the money on something larger and newer.
The boat comes with a decent trailer and the teak looks good but just not sure about the old motor.
What are everyone's thoughts on this ? They're asking $8900 for it.

[LCnSac]

600 hours, especially if there's no hour meter, is a lot of hours on a motor where parts could be hard to find. Keep in mind that sellers always lie about hours. And, you don't know when the hour meter, if it has one, was installed. For the asking price (high) plus the cost of repowering you could get an already repowered classic Montauk for $4-$5K less, and probably a 170 with fewer hours with the original 90 Merc 4S.

Depending on where you live, it's always a good bet to check Florida boats. They are mostly salt-run but are plentiful and cheap, even with some shipping costs. I've heard Great Lakes boats are often the best due to the fresh water, don't know the prices. California Whalers are probably the highest priced in the nation, and most have been in some salt. Travelling overnight to pick up a good boat is not unreasonable if need be.