I may buy a c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 powered by a 2017 SUZUKI DF175 engine on sitting on a tandem-axle 22 to 24-foot boat trailer. Give me your comments about this boat-engine-trailer engine combination for my use, based on these descriptions:
BOAT
The c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 boat looks like a 25-year-old boat. There is some fading and crazing in the gel coat layer.
ENGINE
The 2017 SUZUKI DF175 engine is the main attraction for me to this rig.
[IMPLIED] Q1: is the weight of a SUZUKI DF175 engine [which is never specified] going to be too much weight for the DAUNTLESS 20 hull?
From my prior experience with Grady-White boats, if they were re-powered with a four-stroke-power-cycle engine when originally powered by a two-stroke-power-cycle engine, there were concerns about excessive engine weight.
TRAILER
I anticipate having to get a new trailer for the boat. The present trailer appears to me to have way too much load capacity. I expect to replace it with a tandem-axle 20 to 22-foot boat trailer with a load capacity of 5,000-lbs. The seller said he bought that trailer because "he was in a pinch."
ASIDE: I am a long-time lurker. I just sold a Grady-White 22-foot dual console.
Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
Re: Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
The SUZUKI DF175 should be adequate power.
Dauntless boats are rather well known for being a bit low in the water at the transom. The true test of how low is to put the boat in the water with a full fuel tank and approximate weight you would expect to have aboard. Perhaps two adult men at the console seats.
An over-built trailer should not be a concern if the trailer is set up properly for the boat. I doubt a tandem trailer is a plus for towing unless it is required for safety.
If the scuppers are underwater at rest there are some things that can be done to avoid a flooded aft deck. Scupper plugs can be used or the so called ping pong attachments can be employed on the transom.
If the boat is reasonably priced and surveys well for its age it could be a good candidate for you.
Dauntless boats are rather well known for being a bit low in the water at the transom. The true test of how low is to put the boat in the water with a full fuel tank and approximate weight you would expect to have aboard. Perhaps two adult men at the console seats.
An over-built trailer should not be a concern if the trailer is set up properly for the boat. I doubt a tandem trailer is a plus for towing unless it is required for safety.
If the scuppers are underwater at rest there are some things that can be done to avoid a flooded aft deck. Scupper plugs can be used or the so called ping pong attachments can be employed on the transom.
If the boat is reasonably priced and surveys well for its age it could be a good candidate for you.
Butch
Re: Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
As for assessing the overall combination of the boat, engine, and trailer, the rig sounds reasonable.
As for value, without knowing the asking price, no assessment can be made of value of the purchase.
Regarding the hull condition, there is no reason a c.1995 boat should exhibit gel coat fading and crazing. The presence of this indicates the boat was not very well maintained. You give no hint to where the boat is located. If the boat is in the northern states, it probably sat in a barn for at least six months every year, and maybe eight or nine months a year. If the boat was on a hoist in Florida, it probably was continually exposed to sunlight and weather.
Generally, faded gel coat can be restored with proper application of compounds, polishes, and waxes, but gel coat crazing cannot be remedied. It will remain as an ongoing defect in the boat.
Generally Boston Whaler did not publish maximum transom weights for their boats until more recently than c.1995, so there may not be a factory specification. But a reasonable inference can be made by discovering what the original engine was on the boat.
About all you can go by for the engine is the maximum rated engine power. This specification will be given on the required USCG placard that is on the boat. You can get that horsepower number from the boat itself, without having to research for a published figure
Regarding the notion that you would buy this combination and then immediately replace the trailer, that seems unnecessary. The only reason I can see for wanting to change trailers is to reduce the total towed weight to allow you to tow the rig with a smaller vehicle. If you own a vehicle that can tow the whole rig as it now exists, then there really is not a concern for the weight. The current trailer might be longer than needed, and that could be a concern for stowing the boat when on the trailer. However, most garages cannot accommodate a 20-foot boat, no matter what trailer the boat is on.
The condition of the the trailer is more important than the present trailer having a higher load rating than necessary to handle the DAUNTLESS 20. The value of the trailer is mostly based on its present condition and road-worthiness. If the trailer has been used extensively in saltwater, it may need a substantial overhaul. Working on boat trailers is generally messy and difficult to accomplish if the boat is on the trailer. Buying replacement parts will be more expensive than buying a new trailer. I base this on my own experience with owning a 1992 boat trailer. Over the past 20-years I have spent several thousand dollars on maintenance and upgrades of the the trailer, including a new surge-brake coupler, many new tires, new brakes, new brake lines, new winch, new fenders, new keel roller and brackets, new electrical wiring, and new running lamps. When I add up the total cost of that gear, I probably at one point in time could have bought a new trailer instead of throwing all those parts at my existing trailer. I mention this to advise you that a careful look at a used boat trailer is needed in order to assess its value.
As for this rig being suitable for you, you will be moving down in length from the 22-foot Grady-White dual-console boat. As long as you are ready to accept a smaller boat, buying the DAUNTLESS 20 should not later cause you regrets.
As for value, without knowing the asking price, no assessment can be made of value of the purchase.
Regarding the hull condition, there is no reason a c.1995 boat should exhibit gel coat fading and crazing. The presence of this indicates the boat was not very well maintained. You give no hint to where the boat is located. If the boat is in the northern states, it probably sat in a barn for at least six months every year, and maybe eight or nine months a year. If the boat was on a hoist in Florida, it probably was continually exposed to sunlight and weather.
Generally, faded gel coat can be restored with proper application of compounds, polishes, and waxes, but gel coat crazing cannot be remedied. It will remain as an ongoing defect in the boat.
I cannot answer this {implied) question because I do not know the weight of a SUZUKI DF175 engine, nor do I know the weight of the engine that might have been typically sold with a new c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20. You need to do some research. Find out the weight of the 2017 SUZUKI DF175 engine. Find out the weight of a typical engine that would have been rigged on a c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 when first sold by a Boston Whaler deal. Find out if there is any data available from Boston Whaler on the recommended maximum transom weight for the c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 hull.Parthery wrote:Q1: is the weight of a SUZUKI DF175 engine [which is never specified] going to be too much weight for the DAUNTLESS 20 hull?
Generally Boston Whaler did not publish maximum transom weights for their boats until more recently than c.1995, so there may not be a factory specification. But a reasonable inference can be made by discovering what the original engine was on the boat.
About all you can go by for the engine is the maximum rated engine power. This specification will be given on the required USCG placard that is on the boat. You can get that horsepower number from the boat itself, without having to research for a published figure
Regarding the notion that you would buy this combination and then immediately replace the trailer, that seems unnecessary. The only reason I can see for wanting to change trailers is to reduce the total towed weight to allow you to tow the rig with a smaller vehicle. If you own a vehicle that can tow the whole rig as it now exists, then there really is not a concern for the weight. The current trailer might be longer than needed, and that could be a concern for stowing the boat when on the trailer. However, most garages cannot accommodate a 20-foot boat, no matter what trailer the boat is on.
The condition of the the trailer is more important than the present trailer having a higher load rating than necessary to handle the DAUNTLESS 20. The value of the trailer is mostly based on its present condition and road-worthiness. If the trailer has been used extensively in saltwater, it may need a substantial overhaul. Working on boat trailers is generally messy and difficult to accomplish if the boat is on the trailer. Buying replacement parts will be more expensive than buying a new trailer. I base this on my own experience with owning a 1992 boat trailer. Over the past 20-years I have spent several thousand dollars on maintenance and upgrades of the the trailer, including a new surge-brake coupler, many new tires, new brakes, new brake lines, new winch, new fenders, new keel roller and brackets, new electrical wiring, and new running lamps. When I add up the total cost of that gear, I probably at one point in time could have bought a new trailer instead of throwing all those parts at my existing trailer. I mention this to advise you that a careful look at a used boat trailer is needed in order to assess its value.
As for this rig being suitable for you, you will be moving down in length from the 22-foot Grady-White dual-console boat. As long as you are ready to accept a smaller boat, buying the DAUNTLESS 20 should not later cause you regrets.
Re: Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
The c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 is a Florida boat. I'm mindful of its age, and don't mind some sweat equity to bring back the shine.
The c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 boat sat for over six months in the Florida humidity, with a non-breathable cover on. As a result, the cushions are in less-than-perfect shape and will need to be replaced. I'm factoring that expense into my potential offer.
The biggest concern for the trailer is the apparent need to replace tires, hubs, brakes, actuator, side guides, lamps, and new carpet on the bunks. If I spend $2,500 to refurb it, I will have a beautiful new trailer, albeit one designed for a 22 to 24-foot boat. For someone who has a 22 to 24-foot boat and either travels a short distance to the ramp, or needs a hurricane haul out trailer, it will work just fine in its existing condition. I suspect its sale will bring at least $2000.
A brand new aluminum 20 to 22-foot trailer with brakes on both axles, a warranty, stainless steel hardware, torsion axles, and so on, can be bought for between $5,500 to $6,000. To me, the extra $1000 out of pocket to have a trailer that fits the boat properly and is all new is worth the comfort and [peace] of mind. I routinely tow five hours to the Atlantic and Gulf coasts from Atlanta, and I have no desire to spend time on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.
The c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 boat sat for over six months in the Florida humidity, with a non-breathable cover on. As a result, the cushions are in less-than-perfect shape and will need to be replaced. I'm factoring that expense into my potential offer.
The biggest concern for the trailer is the apparent need to replace tires, hubs, brakes, actuator, side guides, lamps, and new carpet on the bunks. If I spend $2,500 to refurb it, I will have a beautiful new trailer, albeit one designed for a 22 to 24-foot boat. For someone who has a 22 to 24-foot boat and either travels a short distance to the ramp, or needs a hurricane haul out trailer, it will work just fine in its existing condition. I suspect its sale will bring at least $2000.
A brand new aluminum 20 to 22-foot trailer with brakes on both axles, a warranty, stainless steel hardware, torsion axles, and so on, can be bought for between $5,500 to $6,000. To me, the extra $1000 out of pocket to have a trailer that fits the boat properly and is all new is worth the comfort and [peace] of mind. I routinely tow five hours to the Atlantic and Gulf coasts from Atlanta, and I have no desire to spend time on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.
Re: Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
I think the arithmetic is fuzzy. Let me see if I understand your math:Parthery wrote:If I spend $2,500 to refurb [the current trailer], I will have a beautiful new trailer, albeit one designed for a 22 to 24-foot boat. For someone who has a 22 to 24-foot boat and either travels a short distance to the ramp, or needs a hurricane haul out trailer, it will work just fine in its existing condition. In its current condition, I think I could sell it for at least $2000.
A brand new aluminum 20 to 22-foot trailer with brakes on both axles, a warranty, stainless steel hardware, torsion axles, and so on, can be bought for between $5,500 to $6,000. To me, the extra $1000 out of pocket to have a trailer that fits the boat properly and is all new is worth the comfort and [peace] of mind.
KEEP EXISTING TRAILER means you have to get the trailer in shape for the road; your out of pocket cost is about $2,500.
SELL EXISTING TRAILER means you get an influx of at least $2,000, and you buy a $5,500 new trailer. So your out-of-pocket cost is then $3,500.
OK, now I see how you computed the out-of-pocket cost difference to be only $1,000. And, yes, I agree, that added $1,000 is certainly a good investment and returns a lot of value: new trailer, under warranty, unlikely to have a disabling problem on the road.
I think I was in the same situation, but my $2,500 investment in my old trailer was a gradual expense over about ten years, so there was not as much clarity about how relatively low the cost of buying a new trailer would have been.
Re: Assess Boat, Engine, Trailer Combination
I think that "factor" will be a significant amount of money. You should contact Anderson's--the recommended vendor for Boston Whaler upholstery--to get a quite on the cost of new cushions. See the article in the REFERENCE section about recommended vendors atParthery wrote:The c.1995 DAUNTLESS 20 boat sat for over six months in the Florida humidity, with a non-breathable cover on. As a result, the cushions are in less-than-perfect shape and likely will need to be replaced. I'm factoring that expense into my potential offer.
https://continuouswave.com/whaler/refer ... upholstery
The Anderson's website is not particularly a great website--but they make good cushions. Read about them at
http://amfg.us/about-us/
The best method to communicate with them is via voice telephone.