The 2018 E-TEC 90-HP engine on my 1989 GLS 17 is surging.
Q1: what could cause this behavior?
BACKSTORY
Recently an Evinrude Platinum dealer installed all new fuel hoses, new 6-gallons fuel tanks, an in-line fuel filter, a new VST filter, and a RACOR fuel-water separating filter. After that service the boat rand well.
Very recently the E-TEC 90-HP engine was started and set at idle speed at home and later at a dock. When the boat headed out from the dock the engine began to surge.
I characterize this as engine speed increasing, then decreasing without any change in throttle position; finally the engine quit. Squeezing hard on the new fuel line primer bulb seemed to work sometimes, although, it would take many starting attempts to get motor running at idle and low speed. With the cowling off, I noticed that there was no fuel in inline filter [strong clue]. Finally made it back to dock.
TRIM SYSTEM
This 2018 E-TEC 90-HP engine--which was previously examined in every way by an Evinrude dealer before purchase--has now begun to drop to lowest position after being tilted up. Until recently, it was a very slow drop, now almost immediate.
I have read about unscrewing the manual release screw and cycling the trim several times, and also having the engine stopped from tilting down while activating the "down" tilt control. Will try both today.
2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
A general cause of engine speed change without throttle setting change is likely to be related to lack of fuel.
There could be air in your fuel system.
Your observation of lack of any fuel in a fuel filter suggests lack of fuel is responsible.
For best advice on diagnosis of running problems with an E-TEC engine, I recommend you move to the website
https://ETECOWNERSGROUP.COM
Choose the proper forum for posting according to your engine number of cylinders (V4 or Inline3) and whether a legacy model or a G2 model. Include the complete model number in your first post there. You will get expert advice from that resource.
There could be air in your fuel system.
Your observation of lack of any fuel in a fuel filter suggests lack of fuel is responsible.
For best advice on diagnosis of running problems with an E-TEC engine, I recommend you move to the website
https://ETECOWNERSGROUP.COM
Choose the proper forum for posting according to your engine number of cylinders (V4 or Inline3) and whether a legacy model or a G2 model. Include the complete model number in your first post there. You will get expert advice from that resource.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
After many phone calls to repair shops and hours of research, the consensus [opinion of the cause of the engine surge problem] was a failed high pressure fuel pump. The existing electric pump was reading only 5 to 6-PSI at the high pressure test point. This diagnosis also indicated that the mechanical low-pressure fuel lift pump was working.
I first replaced the existing pump with a new after-market quick-disconnect pump, which then also read 7 to 8-PSI after squeezing the primer bulb as hard as possible. Deciding that the [problem's causes] were both the old and new electric high pressure pump, I set about replacing [the after-market high-pressure pump] witha new [OEM Walbro] high-pressure pump and separate vapor-fuel separator tank (VST).
While doing that, I saw that the wires carrying power to the electric pump had been severed from chafing by the taking off and putting on of the cowling. This was not apparent in the beginning as those wires were behind some of the other stuff.
The [E-TEC outboard engine] with the new Wallbro integrated pump and VST now goes zoom zoom.
However, because the new Walbro high-pressure fuel pump does not have a pressure test fitting, I will tie [the 1989 GLS 17 boat] to the dock and run the [E-TEC 90-HP engine] for quite a while [to prove the repair has eliminated the original problem of the engine surging].
I first replaced the existing pump with a new after-market quick-disconnect pump, which then also read 7 to 8-PSI after squeezing the primer bulb as hard as possible. Deciding that the [problem's causes] were both the old and new electric high pressure pump, I set about replacing [the after-market high-pressure pump] witha new [OEM Walbro] high-pressure pump and separate vapor-fuel separator tank (VST).
While doing that, I saw that the wires carrying power to the electric pump had been severed from chafing by the taking off and putting on of the cowling. This was not apparent in the beginning as those wires were behind some of the other stuff.
The [E-TEC outboard engine] with the new Wallbro integrated pump and VST now goes zoom zoom.
However, because the new Walbro high-pressure fuel pump does not have a pressure test fitting, I will tie [the 1989 GLS 17 boat] to the dock and run the [E-TEC 90-HP engine] for quite a while [to prove the repair has eliminated the original problem of the engine surging].
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Thanks for the follow-up that describes the cause of the 2018 E-TEC 90-HP (presumably the three-cylinder in-line legacy model) whose engine speed was surging and the remedy to the problem: a new high-pressure OEM-style Walbro fuel pump and VST assembly.
ASIDE
If the wire insulation chaffing of the electrical power to the original high-pressure fuel pump and VST assembly also caused some of the strands of the wire to be cut, then the resistance in the wire could have increased. With increased resistance in the wire supplying the electrical current to the pump motor, the speed and torque of the electric motor in the pump could have been reduced. This could have caused the reduction in fuel pressure in the fuel distribution manifold, and that could have caused the engine speed to slow and surge, as you reported as the original symptom.
Q2: did you make any repair to the wire conductors that showed chaffing?
ASIDE
If the wire insulation chaffing of the electrical power to the original high-pressure fuel pump and VST assembly also caused some of the strands of the wire to be cut, then the resistance in the wire could have increased. With increased resistance in the wire supplying the electrical current to the pump motor, the speed and torque of the electric motor in the pump could have been reduced. This could have caused the reduction in fuel pressure in the fuel distribution manifold, and that could have caused the engine speed to slow and surge, as you reported as the original symptom.
Q2: did you make any repair to the wire conductors that showed chaffing?
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Hello Jim,
The wires to the electric pump were completely severed, so no power was getting to the pump. The wires are extremely thin and encased in a black mesh sleeve making it very hard to see that the wires had come apart. I stripped about 1" of insulation from the wires, wrapped the wires together, soldered the wires and then pulled the heat shrink tube over the joints. The original electric pump might have worked if only the wires had been repaired, but that is history [$$$] now. The wires are now rerouted to keep them safe from chafing.
The wires to the electric pump were completely severed, so no power was getting to the pump. The wires are extremely thin and encased in a black mesh sleeve making it very hard to see that the wires had come apart. I stripped about 1" of insulation from the wires, wrapped the wires together, soldered the wires and then pulled the heat shrink tube over the joints. The original electric pump might have worked if only the wires had been repaired, but that is history [$$$] now. The wires are now rerouted to keep them safe from chafing.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Generally on an E-TEC engine (that has not been running for a while), when the ignition key switch is moved to ON from OFF, the high-pressure fuel pump electric motor is energized and runs for five seconds or longer until the high-pressure fuel distribution system has been pressurized to the normal pressure level. The minimum high-pressure level is specified as between 24 to 28-PSI and is noted in the SERVICE MANUAL.
Even with the E-TEC engine cowling in place, if you are close to the engine the sound of the pump motor running will be audible. Not hearing the fuel pump run would be a very unusual cold start condition.
I checked the SERVICE MANUAL for my E-TEC V6 225-HP engine, and found that the EMM is capable of detecting a service code 91 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT OPEN. Checking the service manual for the 2010 90-HP E-TEC, there is also a notice that service code 91 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT OPEN will be provided.
Also, if the circuit for the fuel pump motor were shorted, that is also noted by service code 94 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT SHORTED.
On that basis, if you had the E-TEC EV-Diagnostic software and the appropriate terminal to host the software and the appropriate serial port and the appropriatei nterface cable, you could have run the EV-Diagnostic software and gotten an engine history report, and if the circuit to the fuel pump were either open or shorted, you would have been pointed right at that fault condition.
The EMM in the E-TEC engine is rather smart and often provides very useful data about non-standard events in the engine operation history. For example, the EMM in my V6 E-TEC 225-HP alerted me to a ignition spark coil for a particular cylinder that was in a non-standard condition, and upon investigation I found that coil had developed a short to ground for the high-voltage secondary winding. That was extremely useful diagnostic information from the EMM.
If you plan to own and self-maintain an E-TEC engine, having factory Service Manual and the EV-Diagnostic software are really essential tools.
Also, even without the EV-Diagnostic software, the circuit to the high-pressure fuel pump electric motor is available on a two-pole connector. The pump could easy be disconnected from the EMM circuit, and then using an Ohmmeter you could read the resistance of the pump motor winding. Of course, if the open circuit due to chafing were not in the short wiring from the pump to the connector, you would not get an open or short circuit reading,
Of course, once the problem source has been identified, it is simple to see how the faulty component might have been discovered by other means that the actual method used in the repair.
Even with the E-TEC engine cowling in place, if you are close to the engine the sound of the pump motor running will be audible. Not hearing the fuel pump run would be a very unusual cold start condition.
I checked the SERVICE MANUAL for my E-TEC V6 225-HP engine, and found that the EMM is capable of detecting a service code 91 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT OPEN. Checking the service manual for the 2010 90-HP E-TEC, there is also a notice that service code 91 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT OPEN will be provided.
Also, if the circuit for the fuel pump motor were shorted, that is also noted by service code 94 FUEL PUMP CIRCUIT SHORTED.
On that basis, if you had the E-TEC EV-Diagnostic software and the appropriate terminal to host the software and the appropriate serial port and the appropriatei nterface cable, you could have run the EV-Diagnostic software and gotten an engine history report, and if the circuit to the fuel pump were either open or shorted, you would have been pointed right at that fault condition.
The EMM in the E-TEC engine is rather smart and often provides very useful data about non-standard events in the engine operation history. For example, the EMM in my V6 E-TEC 225-HP alerted me to a ignition spark coil for a particular cylinder that was in a non-standard condition, and upon investigation I found that coil had developed a short to ground for the high-voltage secondary winding. That was extremely useful diagnostic information from the EMM.
If you plan to own and self-maintain an E-TEC engine, having factory Service Manual and the EV-Diagnostic software are really essential tools.
Also, even without the EV-Diagnostic software, the circuit to the high-pressure fuel pump electric motor is available on a two-pole connector. The pump could easy be disconnected from the EMM circuit, and then using an Ohmmeter you could read the resistance of the pump motor winding. Of course, if the open circuit due to chafing were not in the short wiring from the pump to the connector, you would not get an open or short circuit reading,
Of course, once the problem source has been identified, it is simple to see how the faulty component might have been discovered by other means that the actual method used in the repair.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
The fuel pump operates from the 12-Volt battery bus in the E-TEC so it probably draws a few Amperes of current. The wire size shouldn't be particularly small. Most of the wiring is at least 16-AWG.glen1941 wrote:The wires to the electric pump...are extremely thin...
If you could give the wire size in AWG number that corresponds to "extremely thin" then your description of the wire conductor gauge would be more precise.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
jimh—Yep, hindsight is 20/20.
The "very thin" wire in this case is something like half the diameter of the lead in a mechanical pencil. My strip, cut and crimp tool worked at 23.
I really do not don't want to learn more technology at this time, but see that I must get outfitted and knowledgable with the EV-Diagnostic software for any future [engine problems].
I now have a [repeat customer] relationship with Barnacle Bill's so will start [looking for the EV-Diagnostics software and special cable] there--unless you have better idea.
The remaining engine problem keeping me out of the water is the tilt and trim. All worked well until recently, motor runs, no visable leaks at ram, switches work. Internet points to manual release valve. Replaced with $130 aftermarket from Five Star marine, did not work.
I have purchased a new OEM [trim unit manual release valve] from BB's, and I hope it will be the answer.
The "very thin" wire in this case is something like half the diameter of the lead in a mechanical pencil. My strip, cut and crimp tool worked at 23.
I really do not don't want to learn more technology at this time, but see that I must get outfitted and knowledgable with the EV-Diagnostic software for any future [engine problems].
I now have a [repeat customer] relationship with Barnacle Bill's so will start [looking for the EV-Diagnostics software and special cable] there--unless you have better idea.
The remaining engine problem keeping me out of the water is the tilt and trim. All worked well until recently, motor runs, no visable leaks at ram, switches work. Internet points to manual release valve. Replaced with $130 aftermarket from Five Star marine, did not work.
I have purchased a new OEM [trim unit manual release valve] from BB's, and I hope it will be the answer.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
For more advice on what is needed to use EV-Diagnostics software, see my article at
EV-Diagnostics Software
https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4706
EV-Diagnostics Software
https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4706
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
If you mean "23" as in AWG-23, that is an extremely small diameter conductor. That seems very unusual.glen1941 wrote:The "very thin" wire in this case is something like half the diameter of the lead in a mechanical pencil. My strip, cut and crimp tool worked at 23.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Also, another question:
Q3: was the break in the circuit that needed repair on the part of the circuit from the pump assembly to the connector, or other side, from the mating connector to the EMM?
Q3: was the break in the circuit that needed repair on the part of the circuit from the pump assembly to the connector, or other side, from the mating connector to the EMM?
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
This statement is not quite correct. The power source for the fuel pump depends on the engine model. In the smaller engines, like a 90-HP, the power source is from the 55-Volt bus, probably with a pulsed power so that the effective voltage is more like 12-Volts. In the larger engines, like my V6, the fuel pump is powered by the 12-Volt bus, so the wiring is probably sized to handle more current.jimh wrote:The fuel pump operates from the 12-Volt battery bus in the E-TEC so it probably draws a few Amperes of current.
Also, perhaps the electric motor voltage changes, too. Comparing the part numbers for the pump-VST assembly for the in-line engine and the V6 engines would be interesting.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Again, this statement is not quite correct. Upon further investigation, in the in-line three-cylinder engines (like a 90-HP) the fuel pump motor ONLY operates if the engine is cranking over or is running. This is because the power comes from the 55-Volt bus, not from the 12-Volt bus (running off the battery power). So listening for the pump to run before starting the engine with a 90-HP or 75-HP would not be possible.jimh wrote:Generally on an E-TEC engine (that has not been running for a while), when the ignition key switch is moved to ON from OFF, the high-pressure fuel pump electric motor is energized and runs for five seconds or longer until the high-pressure fuel distribution system has been pressurized to the normal pressure level.
Refer to the 90-HP engine SERVICE MANUAL, FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS section, FUEL CIRCULATION PUMP sub-section, ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT paragraph.
On the V6 engines the pump runs from 12-Volt battery power, so it can pre-pressurize the fuel distribution manifold before actually cranking over the engine.
ASIDE: perhaps that is why the V6 engines start after about one-revolution of the crankshaft, as the fuel distribution manifold could have been already at operating pressure before the operator moves the ignition key switch to START from ON, assuming he delayed for a few seconds with the switch left in the ON position before trying to start the engine. This is my usual starting procedure because I typically have just launched the boat off the trailer, and the engine was in a trimmed-up position to avoid any possible contact with the ramp surface during launching. When ready to start, I first turn the key to ON in order to use the TRIM control at the helm to tilt-down the engine so the gear case is submerged. That lets the fuel system come up to pressure. Then the engine starts so rapidly it almost scares you.
Re: 2018 E-TEC 90-HP Engine Surges
Jim,
I can only tell you that the wires come from somewhere in the dark recesses of the motor, concealed in a black mesh sheaf, and connect to the high pressure fuel pump. They are very thin. My first thought was, how am I going to join these wires together, but the internet saved me. If I had been clever enough, and had the benefit of the diagnostic gizmos, I would have chased down that the fault was the severed wires. I would not have spent the money [$$$] and effort to remove the old non-integrated pump and tank and to have installed the new Walbro integrated assembly. From hours of reading, I have arrived at a procedure of turning the ignition to "on" and holding there for the lights to come on, and for at least 5 seconds. Not sure what is going on here, but it works. My motor starts instantly, faster than my Honda Ridgeline, and as fast as the 6BTAs in the Hatteras [years ago]. The tilt and trim concern is headed towards success [I hope]. Decided that the best Path Forward was to remove the hydraulic assembly in order to be able to install the manual release valve in a more straight forward manner. Also, After installing the new valve, I will cycle the ram to confirm that the thing works before reinstalling the assembly.
On a related subject. What is the best equipment to purchase to join the diagnostic club? I am a Mac / Apple person. There are "kits" with wires and flash drives on eBay, and I guess I will have to buy a Windows laptop. Please recommend how I should proceed to have a setup which allows me to begin learning to use the software.
Thank you, Glen
I can only tell you that the wires come from somewhere in the dark recesses of the motor, concealed in a black mesh sheaf, and connect to the high pressure fuel pump. They are very thin. My first thought was, how am I going to join these wires together, but the internet saved me. If I had been clever enough, and had the benefit of the diagnostic gizmos, I would have chased down that the fault was the severed wires. I would not have spent the money [$$$] and effort to remove the old non-integrated pump and tank and to have installed the new Walbro integrated assembly. From hours of reading, I have arrived at a procedure of turning the ignition to "on" and holding there for the lights to come on, and for at least 5 seconds. Not sure what is going on here, but it works. My motor starts instantly, faster than my Honda Ridgeline, and as fast as the 6BTAs in the Hatteras [years ago]. The tilt and trim concern is headed towards success [I hope]. Decided that the best Path Forward was to remove the hydraulic assembly in order to be able to install the manual release valve in a more straight forward manner. Also, After installing the new valve, I will cycle the ram to confirm that the thing works before reinstalling the assembly.
On a related subject. What is the best equipment to purchase to join the diagnostic club? I am a Mac / Apple person. There are "kits" with wires and flash drives on eBay, and I guess I will have to buy a Windows laptop. Please recommend how I should proceed to have a setup which allows me to begin learning to use the software.
Thank you, Glen