1987 GUARDIAN 22 Detachment of Cleats, Lifting Eyes

[Queso Peligroso]

In March 2022 I bought a 1987 Guardian 22’. I marine surveyor buddy [examined] the boat. [The boat] seemed solid with some expected cosmetic work, and--fingers crossed--there won't be major flaws.

I am struggling to get off the aft section of the aluminum cap rail because the [lifting eyes] are not coming off. The four lift eyes appear to be through-bolted. I was able to get the nuts and washers off but the backing plates and the extremely large (flathead) screws have apparently melted into those plates. The aluminum cap rail will not come up without removing this [nor will] the aft cleats which appear to be through bolted through the aluminum cap and the fiberglass cap rail.

Q1: Am I missing something in the mechanical arrangement of the lifting eyes?

Give me suggestions on how to remove them.

There is no access to the underside of the cleat and the bolts for the lifting eye are tucked up partially under the aluminum cap rails.

The midship cleats also have no access. I assume they are through-bolted and have backing plates. The only thing I can think to do is cut an access hole to remove and then place an access hatch to reattach.

Give me suggestions on how to to remove the midship cleats

The railing under the rub rail is scored in the forward curved section. I can only assume this is for flex. I have seen it in other Whalers being restored but it seems like a horrible opportunity for water intrusion.\
Give me an explanation of the purpose of the scoring in the railing under the rub rail in the forward curved section.

[The images below were attached to the post but not made into in-line images. No captions or figure identification numbers were provided. Please review the INTRODUCTION TO THE FORUM SOFTWARE forum for advice on how to attach images, make them appear in-line near the appropriate text, to give them identification numbers starting with Fig.1, Fig 2. and so on, and to add captions to explain to the reader what is being illustrated. I have invented the captions as best as I could guess the intended purpose of the illustration.--Moderator]

Fig. 1. These are presumed to be the lifting eyes whose threaded fasteners cannot be removed.

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Fig. 2. This may be the area described as a "scoring" in the narrative that occurs on the "railing under the rub rail."

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Fig. 3. THis may be the midship cleat.

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[Phil T]

I would not attempt [to remove the lifting eyes] or [the midship cleat].

The lift eyes are attached using screws into a metal backing plate. There is likely galvanic corrosion that has fused the screws to the plate. Same with the cleats.

Why is it necessary to remove them if they are still strong? You can strip and repaint the gunwale caps and cleats in situ.

Re the [scoring in the railing under the rub rail]: seal the slots with a marine sealant (not adhesive) similar to BoatLife Caulk.

[jimh]

The best advice about the details of the construction of this 1987 GUARDIAN 22 would come from the Government and Commericial Boat division of Boston Whaler that built it. Unfortunately, that division is now reorganized as Brunswick Government and Commercial Products. You could try contacting them to see if any current employees were involved with their operation 35-years ago and, if any were, can they recall the particulars about which you are seeking advice.

Regarding your supposition that many fittings are attached by through-bolting, I would disagree. Through-bolting would require large backing plates in order to spread the compressive load onto a large area. More likely a component like a cleat would be attached by using a embedded metal plate, most likely aluminum, that was placed into the fiberglass structure while it was being laid up in its mold. The plate would he adhered to the laminate surface, prior to the hull being filled with foam.

During final assembly, the cleat location would be established, and pilot holes drilled at the necessary location, which would find the embedded metal plate. A tap would then be used to thread the metal plate receive the machine screw fasteners to retain the cleat.

Because the plate was aluminum and the fasteners were stainless steel, there is a high probability that some corrosion has occurred between the dissimilar metals. Perhaps some seawater came in contact. Or, the embedded foam and polyester resins may have not completely cured, and there could be some leaching of corrosive liquids. There is always a chance for stainless steel threaded fasteners in aluminum to exhibit "galling." Please read the FAQ at Q8:

https://www.continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q8

Regarding your use of the term "scoring," if Figure 2 is an illustration, I would call those openings "slots." The slots may have been intended as sprue holes. The use of multiple sprue holes during the infusion of foam into the interior of a Boston Whaler Unibond hull is very common. Or, the slots could have been created as a passageway for electrical wiring to be run under the rub rail.

Again, referring to Figure 2, the area that has the slots is not a "railing under the rub rail" but is an integral part of the molded fiberglass hull.

[Phil T]

Brunswick Commercial Products Division is no longer a stand-alone entity with commercial products returned to the child divisions. For a Guardian that would be Boston Whaler.

Given the recent shift at Boston Whaler, support for models out of production has been reduced dramatically.
You will find very little support contacting them. They will most likely refer you to this site and one other.

[Queso Peligroso]

The reason for removing the cleats and lifting eyes is to evaluate and repair any damage on the rails. The aft cleats and lifting eyes prohibit me from removing the aluminum cap on the gunwales.

I may end up having to leave all in place and just do my best to address what I can before putting things back together.

The midship cleats need to come off because the gunwale in this section of the boat is warped and separated from the hull in a couple places. Looks like somebody bumped a tall military dock a little hard with the attached bow rail that extends back amidship and the mounting pad pulled up the top of the gunwale.

This section of the gunwale may end up getting cut out and rebuilt. I suppose I could put in an access hatch to the backplate for the new cleats.

I am trying to do the repairs correctly--where possible.

[Queso Peligroso]

I was able to get off the midship cleats with the help of an impact screwdriver and some PB Blaster solvent. I broke two bits and twisted two more in the process. The stern cleats and aft lifting eyes still must come out so I can remove the aluminum gunwale caps.

Fig. 4. Midship cleat removed. Check out those threads (1987)

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The [hull] under the old rub rail has all kinds of surprises. There I have sanded down the hull to the fiberglass glass laminate, and I have worked a Dremel tool around to clean the edges of the holes.

Q2: What method should be used to fill all the small holes in the hull that are under the rub rail area?

I was thinking just some Bondo or Formula 27 filler.

After filling those whole, I am wrapping the entire [hull under the rub rail] with carbon fiber as a reinforcement for the new rub rail and to give some structural integrity for the boat’s next 30 years.

Fig. 5. Hull under the rub rail has been sanded down and is ready for fill.

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Q3: What is that junk under the base of the bow rails seen in Figure 6?

Fig. 6. Gunk under base of bow rail.

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Any help is greatly appreciated.

[jimh]

Q2: What method should be used to fill all the small holes in the hull that are under the rub rail area?

For advice on filling small holes left over from old fasteners, see

The Epoxy Cure
Minor Repairs Using Epoxy Resin
https://continuouswave.com/maintenance-logs/epoxy/

and

Factory Instructions for Hull Patch Kits
https://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/repairInstructions.html

and read the section under the heading "PUNCTURES."

Q3: What is that junk under the base of the bow rails seen in Figure 6?

You will have to answer that yourself. I don't believe any readers can deduce the composition of that material from your illustration.

Regarding use of carbon fiber material: I do not recall prior mention of use of a carbon fiber fabric material for repairs of Unibond hulls. I think you will be on your own with this approach.

[Phil T]

To fill holes, you can use Locketite Marine Epoxy or Marine Tex

It is not clear to me why you want to remove the gunwale caps unless there is damage present. These boats are very stout. If sound, why go look for problems that may not exist.

Wrapping the boat does not read as necessary. In 20 years I have never heard of a boat, especially a Guardian, needing additional structural support.

Note the hull's structure comes from the sandwich of bonded foam and fiberglass.

[Queso Peligroso]

I must not have been super clear. There are a few spots on the boat and mostly under the aluminum gunwale caps where the flat top of the gunwale glass is separated from the outer hull at the corner where they meet. That’s why I want to get the cap off and what necessitates removal of the stern cleats and lifting eyes.

Stbd quarter gunwale separation from hull under aluminum cap

81D1A296-1AEF-4BFF-96CA-EFA7AA634762.jpeg (44.22 KiB) Viewed 1087 times

The midship cleats need to come out for a very similar reason. Similar damage from where the tail of the bow rail must have impacted something and pulled up the top of the gunwale separating it from the hull in a couple spots. The gunwale is wavy in this area and I will grind out and repair it so it is reattached and flat.

As far as reinforcing the rail of the gunwale all the way around goes; part of it is to reattach the above listed problem areas to the hull. Additionally there are a few larger than screw hole repairs in the gunwale rail (some nearly the whole vertical height of the rail) and I imagine that compromises the strength of the bond between the hull and the gunwale. Additionally, I would like this area to be solid for the next 30 years under the new rub rail. I have kids that will be learning to drive this at some point and you know how boater training can have some bumps along the way.

Gunwale rail damage and holes to be filled

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I figured I should lay up new glass along the rail anyway, might as well go for the extra strength with just a little more effort to use carbon and epoxy (bagging to get a good bond and all the air out) vs. fiberglass and polyester resin.

Hopefully this clarifies and please let me know if I’m totally missing the mark along the way. Thanks for the input!