1991 Outrage 17 Sump Pump

[bassemir]

I am a new owner of a 1991 Outrage 17 and learning about the boat. On the dash is a switch labeled BILGE PUMP, but turning it on does nothing. I am guessing that might be because there is no water to remove.

Give me advice on how to verify the pump is working.

Q1: Where is the bilge [sump] pump located?

Is there an additional switch that turns the bilge pump on only when water is present?

Q2: why is there a bilge pump switch to begin with?

Q3: wouldn't you want the pump left on all the time so water is removed if I am away from the boat?

[jimh]

Q1: where is the bilge [sump] pump located?

Q2: why is there a bilge [sump] pump switch to begin with?

I will give you the long answer so you learn a bit more about the construction of a Boston Whaler boat.

A Boston Whaler boat does not have a bilge space as found in most boats. The Boston Whaler boat is constructed with a double bottom hull called the Unibond Hull. The space between outer and inner hulls, which in a normal boat would be the bilge space, in a Unibond Hull boat is filled with foam. There is no open space in the "bilge" for water to collect and slosh around.

The inner hull is called the HULL LINER. The design of the hull liner includes some intentional depressed areas or SUMP area where water is designed to collect. These sump area are usually near the transom. They are often on the Starboard side of the boat, where the engine cranking battery will typically be located as well. The reason for this is the boat at rest (static trim) will then take a slight lean to Starboard, which will help the tendency for any water to flow off the cockpit deck and into the sump on the Starboard side.

Typically any sump area on a Unibond hull boat will have a drain in the lowest point of the sump, through the hull bottom, to the sea.

The owner's manual gives the operator advice on which of these sump drains should be closed shut (by insertion of a circular drain plug) in normal operation, and which sump areas can have their drains left open when the boat is not in use.

The extent to which seawater will flow into a sump area from the sea if the drain is left open depends on the particular boat and how much weight is being carried, particularly weight on the transom.

Of course, if the boat is not in the water when not in use, there is no hesitancy or reason to keep the sump drains closed. If the boat is to be left in the water an not attended, keeping a sump drain open can be very useful, as long as the level of water with the boat at rest does not rise to overflow the sump compartment.

To determine how your particular Boston Whaler boat and its engine and other gear left aboard when the boat is unattended and in the water will rest with regard to the water height that will flow into the sump in that situation, you just need to make a test. Tie the boat at a dock. Get all the people off the boat. Remove the plug from the stern sump. Step off the boat. Observe how high the water rises in the stern sump.

If the water overflows the sump and begins to flood the cockpit, then your particular boat at rest should not leave the stern sump drain open.

If the water flowing into the sump from the sea only rises slightly and remains contained in the sump, then your particular boat is able to be left unattended with the stern sump drain open.

AN ELECTRICAL SUMP PUMP or "bilge pump"
When the stern sump area on a Boston Whaler boat has its drain to the sea plugged, there may be an electrically operated pump installed in the sump. The pump is designed to lift water from the sump bottom level, up and out of the sump, and then overboard to flow downward into the sea. That the exhaust of the sump pump rises far enough that the water lifted then drains directly to the sea is very important; the water exhaust from the pump should NOT drain into any other compartment, like the engine splash well.

VARIATION IN ELECTRICAL SUMP PUMP OPERATION
Traditionally an electrically operated sump pump was controlled in two ways:

• the pump is energized when the operator moves the switch controlling the pump to the ON position from the normal OFF position of the switch; in some cases this position is a momentary switch action. (In electrical switch terminology, the notation MOMENTARY means the switch must be held in this position, otherwise it returns to the OFF position when released.) Or,
• the pump is energized by a hidden switch called the FLOAT SWITCH, which is usually located in the sump along with the pump, and detects the presence of water in the sump above a certain level; this is the FLOAT SWITCH ON THRESHOLD. Note that the level for the PUMP ON actuation MUST be higher than the level that the pump can create when it exhausts as much water from the sump as it can; if this were not true then the pump would run continually, trying to lift water out because of the float switch was calling for the pump to run, but the pump cannot reduce the water level below the float switch OFF threshold. This position is usually marked AUTO, and is commonly seen on pump control switches which have three positions: ON-OFF-AUTO.

If you are able to read and understand an electrical schematic diagram, you can find such a diagram and further comments about sump pump control wiring in an article in the REFERENCE section of the website titled Cockpit Sump Pump

With modern technology, a newer type sump pump has been developed, which allows use of the pump without needed an external float switch to control the pump. These newer pumps periodically turn on the pump motor at present intervals, and then monitor the amount of electrical current that results. If the pump impeller is turning in air, the electrical current will be very low as there is almost no resistance on the impeller to turn. If the pump impeller is turning in water, the electrical current will be much higher, as the water exerts resistance to turn onto the impeller. In this manner the pump can deduce if there is water in the sump or not. Pumps controlled in this manner usually have only a two position switch with OFF and ON designations.

HELPING YOU WITH ELECTRICAL OPERATION OF THE PUMP
The first step in offering advice to you about the electrical sump pump requires that you locate the pump on your boat. Inspect the aft cockpit sump areas and look for a pump. If you find a pump, then report that in your next post and more advice can be given.

Also, describe the switch that controls the pump:

Q3: how many positions does the switch have?

Q4: what the the labels on the switch?

Q5: is the ON position a MOMENTARY ACTION?

[jimh]

Q3: wouldn't I want the pump left on all the time so water is removed if I am away from the boat?

Leaving the sump pump running all the time might damage the pump if there is no water being moved. Generally the water helps cool the pump. Also, the pump could drain the charge on the boat battery to exhaustion. This is a serious problem on a boat with only one battery and with an engine that cannot be pull started.

If the pump happens to be a newer design that automatically senses water, it won't run all the time but it could still drain the battery if it runs excessively.

[Phil T]

The bilge pump is located in the stern sump. Walk aft, pull the cover to the baitwell. Remove the tub insert. Looking straight down, the pump should be in the lower level (left) of the sump. It could have a separate float switch or one that is integrated into the pump.

The bilge switch is either a twp-position OFF-AUTO or three-position OFF-ON-AUTO. Verify yours.

First thing to do is insert the sump plug into the drain tube. Pour four gallons of water on the deck.

Note where the discharge hose exits.

If the pump does not work at all, check the fuse for the pump. The fuse is often next to the switch. Look for a black raised circle. Twist the circle to remove the cap and you can pull out the 5-Ampere glass fuse.

Second: test the pump and float switch separately.

There are three wires that go from the pump and are spliced into the float switch, if equipped, and then transit under the fuel tank cover and up into the console to the electrical buss and then to the switch.

[Phil T]

The 1990-1995 Outrage 17 I is a unique model in that it has a sump that is well below the waterline and it is not recommended to run the boat with the sump drain plug left open. A bilge pump is recommended for this and other reasons.

While there are deck drains in the transom, on the 1991 model the channel for the deck drain runs to the transom through hull and continues around and and down to the sump. This allows deck water to enter the sump. The channel design was modified on 1992-1995 models to include a small damp aft of the deck water through hull to assist water exiting and not transit down to the sump.

I ran my 1991 and run my 1992 with the deck drains, sump/bilge drain closed. The splashwell drains and the anchor locker drains are open.

I set my bilge to run on automatic when I launch the boat just as a precaution.

If you plan to leave your boat at a slip or at a mooring, I recommend adding a small solar charger to your battery to prevent it from draining in a multi-day heavy rain event. An alternative to this is using a full mooring cover.

Questions?

[bassemir]

Thanks for the education.

The 1991 OUTRAGE 17 is not in the water yet. I'm still going through everything I can think of to ensure I have a successful first outing.

ASIDE: I discovered one of the blue top Optimum batteries was at 5-Volts.

With what all of you told me I need to go back out to the boat and look for those things mentioned.

I do know the Bilge Pump switch on the console is a lighted, on/off rocker. No "auto" position, and it is not a momentary switch.

Fig. 1. Two switches on the electrical panel of a 1991 OUTRAGE 17 boat.

switches2.JPG (15.04 KiB) Viewed 2658 times

After taking another look at the boat I will add information in a follow-up post.

[jimh]

If the other circuits have illumination when their switch is moved to the ON position, and neither of the two switches shown in Figure 1 behave in that manner, the first component to check is the FUSE.

The fuse is probably accessible by prying out the square red lens marked FUSE. That is probably part of the fuse holder. Check to see if the fuse is good. If the fuse has a glass envelope, you can visually check the fuse by carefully looking at the fuse element inside the glass tube. If the fuse does not have a glass tube envelope, you can check the fuse with an Ohmmeter.

If you have a bit of fingernail on your thumb and an opposing finger, you can probably pry out the red square lens marked FUSE. Or, there may be a latching mechanism; if there is a latching mechanism you may have to push down the red square lens marked FUSE, and that will release the latch mechanism.

Report your results with locating the fuse and testing the fuse for continuity. More advice an be given after you assess the state of the fuse.

ASIDE: A fundamental rule in electrical circuit diagnosis: if a circuit is protected by a fuse, and the circuit appears to not be energized, the first component to check is the fuse that protects that circuit.

[bassemir]

Update:

I lifted up the live well (I did not know you could do that, it was like finding a secret hiding spot) and sure enough, I see the electrically-operated pump and also an aerator pump for the live well. I also noticed the aerator pump is lower and there is a drain plug there that opens straight down. There was also a six inch plastic tube there with holes in it.

Fig. 2. Annotated photo showing stern sump area of OUTRAGE 17.

SUMP2.jpg (54.54 KiB) Viewed 3422 times

Next I noticed two plug switches on either side of the live well. One on the starboard side has a faded label "aerator". The one on the port side has no label.

Fig. 3. A push-pull electrical switch controlling power to the aerator pump.

IMG-3850.png (140.72 KiB) Viewed 3422 times

I put six gallons of water in the sump. Then I applied power to the circuity marked "Bilge Pump" on the console. When I pull the port side switch, the bilge pumped hummed for a moment then started pumping out water from the sump. When I pulled the switch on the starboard side [labeled "AERATOR"], the aerator pump hummed but did not pump any water into the live well. I am guessing my aerator pump is bad or plugged.

My conclusion is that in order to run the bilge pump I have to supply voltage to the stern with the console switch, then pull the second switch in stern, port side. Likewise I pull the aerator switch to aerate the live well.

AERATOR PUMP
I propose this test: I take the boat out on the lake, pull the plug in the sump by the aerator pump. Water will enter from the lake.

I am guessing I should stick that plastic tube with holes into the hole where the plug was to prevent lake objects into the sump area. The aerator pump runs [and] will pump water into the live well. If I pull the plug in the live well, water drains out to engine transom which drains back into the lake.

Q1: 1s water constantly circulating through the live well?

[bassemir]

RE FUSE ACCESS: I popped out the fuse and it tested good. I have new switches on order, as I am pretty sure that is one problem. I'll know for sure once the new switch goes in.

[jimh]

The electrical power distribution on your boat seems a bit unusual. I don't know for certain that what you have now is what left the Boston Whaler factory. Typically there would be separate electrical controls for each pump. But now that you have figured out the wiring, you can probably leave the switch at the helm energized and rely on the two push-pull switches to control the pumps.

Regarding how a fish well aerator pump will get its inlet water, my understand would be to have a dedicated inlet from the seawater to supply the pump, usually controlled with a seacock valve. On a smaller boat like your 17-foot, you may have an ad hoc system similar to what you proposed involving placing the inlet hose to the aerator pump into the through-hull drain in the sump.

A centrifugal pump cannot lift water to its input; the pump must be immersed in free water to be able to lift water up and out.

[bassemir]

Thanks jimh!

[Phil T]

Your 1991 OUTRAGE 17 boat has been really messed with.

The console switches [see Figure 1 above] are not original.

The method of energizing the rear is obtuse. I would not like it and would re-wire the switches so they are energized at the console only as most owners have done.

The livewell pump will only pump water when the boat is in the water.

Do you plan to use the livewell?

Does the bilge pump discharge hose go through the rear wall of the splashwell? Yikes!

[jimh]

The console switches are not original.

That is interesting to know. The fuses and switches and labels seen in Figure 1 do not look like anything I had ever seen before on a Boston Whaler boat in my experience. Not owning a c.1990 OUTRAGE 17, I could not definitively say there were not OEM, but based on Phil's ownership of an OUTRAGE 17, I now believe they must not be OEM.

Also, in my experience, and "bilge" pump installed in the main sump of a Boston Whaler boat would be located in the deepest part of the sump. My interpretation based on what can be seen in Figure 2 is the pump marked "aerator pump" is located at the deepest part of the sump. To me that seems unusual. Perhaps some further clarification on the relative locations of the "bilge" and "aerator" pump location can be provided by the boat owner.

[bassemir]

Yes it is apparent to me (the third owner) that the boat has gone through some non-OEM changes. I would be interested to see the original setup. In the meantime, I'll keep discovering how the current setup works.

I pulled that aerator pump which is in the lowest part of the sump. When I pulled the top half of the aerator pump I could see the bottom half had a hole through the hull to the bottom on the boat. So the current setup must draw water up when the boat is in the water (as you folks mentioned). And yes, both the live well and bilge pump vent water to the splash well.

I do plan to use the livewell--assuming I can catch some fish.

By the way, I did get some new switches yesterday from Amazon--where else. I will put in the new switches today.

Even though [the wiring and fuse panel are] [non-]OEM, for now I will use this setup until I decide what future changes to make.

I appreciate the input from Phil T and jimh.

[jimh]

Having a sump pump only lift water to a height to allow the water to fall into the engine splash well is a compromised design. I will explain why, and my explanation is based on first-hand experience being aboard a boat where the sump pump was not lifting water overboard.

If a boat has a trim such that the engine splash well drains to the sea are submerged, then the drains will allow sea water to flow into the engine splash well. The weight of the water in the engine splash well will tend to increase the tendency for the boat trim to become further lower in the stern. As the hull is immersed more deeply in the water at the stern, the hull shape my not be able to recreate enough additional buoyancy to prevent further immersion. This can happen if the loading on the boat is unusually great in the stern area.

The trim down by the stern may increase to the point where the height of water in the engine splash well rises to the point of overflowing the splash well walls. The sea water now flows into the sump spaces in the stern of the boat. This further aggravates the tendency for the boat trim to settle lower in the stern. At some point water in the sump will cause the sump pump to operate, lifting water out of the boat. But if the sump pump exhaust only raises water high enough to flow downward into the engine splash well, the water will never leave the boat. The sump pump will just be pumping water up and that water will immediately overflow the splash well and return to the sump area.When this occurs, the boat is now in danger of becoming so low in the stern that sea water will be able to flow over the top of the transom. If that occurs, the boat will be rapidly flooded, and there is great risk that the engine power head could be immersed in sea water.

MISCHIEF 15 Down Flooding

I observed this process first hand one afternoon while aboard a MISCHIEF 15. The boat had just been re-powered with a modern engine, which was heavier than the traditional two-stroke-power-cycles engines in use when the boat was designed. The MISCHIEF also has a full upper deck molding, plush upholstered seats for four, and the engine battery in the stern. My wife and I were passengers sitting in the aft seating area. The boat owner and his wife were passenger in the front seats.

We were navigating a very shallow small river, with the owner at the helm, with only two-feet of water under the keel. I began to observe that with four adults aboard, the engine splash well was flooding with river water and spilling into the stern sump, and the boat's trim was becoming more down-by-the stern as more water came aboard. There was a sump pump in the cockpit sump area, but the exhaust hose of the sump pump was delivering water only to the engine splash well. As a result, the sump pump was not actually pumping any water out of the boat, it was just circulating the water already in the boat from the cockpit sump area to the engine splash well, where it would soon overflow and flood back into the cockpit sump.

The result of this error in the design of the sump pump system was t\The boat was very slowly foundering by the stern. There was a considerable amount of free water in the sump, and the boat was becoming very unstable. Just before the the boat trim was so down by the stern that the river water was about to rise over the transom, I alerted the helmsman we needed to immediate go to a private dock on the river shore just a few yards away. We got to the dock, and my wife and I carefully got off the boat--the hull was now very unstable. Then I sat on the very bow of the boat, raising the stern, and letting the free water flow forward. This raised the stern far enough that the splash well drains were out of the water, and the exhaust from the sump pump that was flowing into the engine splash well was now draining out to the river. After about 20 minutes, the water in the boat was cleared. The owner and first mate continued their boat trip down the river, while my wife and I stayed ashore, and walked back the boat ramp about a mile away to await the boat's return after a short cruise to the lake and back.

After this experience, the boat owner made two significant changes. He moved the engine battery to the area forward of the helm, and changed the hoses on the sump pump so they routed water over the top of the transom to fall into the sea

You might think that even if the water in the boat is pumped into the sea, that water will be coming right back aboard. This could be true, but the weight of the water being pumped to the sea will be removed from the hull interior, so it won't be weighing down the boat. As long as the rate of flow of water being pumped out is greater than the rate of flow of water coming aboard, the boat will be getting lighter.

[bassemir]

Wow, thanks for that information Jim. I have not launched the boat yet but when I do I will check this out. I like the idea of moving the discharge from the bilge to the sea, not the engine splash.

[jimh]

Regarding the use of a pull-switch to control a pump, as seen above in Figure 3: initially I did not think this could be a factory installation, but recently I was aboard another Boston Whaler boat, a WHALER 25 Walkaround with Whaler Drive boat, whose electrical system and pumps are much more complex than on a 17-footer. I noticed that in rigging that boat the factory used two pull switches to control two pumps. On that basis my opinion has changed: the pull switch to control the pump on your boat could very well be originally rigged by Boston Whaler. The pull switches also had similar labels as shown in Figure 3.