Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Electrical and electronic topics for small boats
porthole
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Postby porthole » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:30 am

I had a heck of a time trying to run the wires to replace my mast light (plastic mount broke over the winter). Since I was buying a new light I decided I wanted the light at the rear of the T-top to allow for a future RADOME installation up front. Between the bundles of wires already in the pipes, the 90 degree turns required and the fact that some of the pipes were not welded flush on the inside, it was an effort that almost had me quit after a couple of hours or so trying over several days. This is the only thing that worked, and it worked great: Neodymium Rare-Earth Magnets and 130-pound-test monofilament line.

I used monofilament line instead of 1/8-inch braided nylon because mono slides easier in tight areas. Because of the way the T-Tops are welded, it is very difficult to pull braid past the rough edges. For those that don't know. When T-tops are built, and especially in areas where wire chase have to be, the builder will drill a hole the size of the outside diameter (OD) of the cross pipe. The cross pipe is then inserted in the drilled hole and welded. This is a stronger connection then just butt welding the pipes. Where that cross piece enters the pipe is where it can get difficult pulling wires and such. The inserted pipe is not always flush with the inside of the main pipe.

I used 3/8" Neodymium Rare-Earth Magnets and 1/2" Neodymium Rare-Earth Magnet discs

I used three of the smaller 3/8" washer style magnets with the 130 pound test mono. They are loosely attached so that they can roll, slide whatever. I used six of the solid disc magnets. The outer magnets could pull the inner magnets and mono through the pipe even being separated about an inch. This really worked well and allowed me to do in 10 minutes what I had been trying for hours. In this picture the magnets are separated the minimum distance to keep them, well, separated.

Image

I also use a tool I made like this. I used Stainless TIG welding wire. This is convenient for pushing and pulling a wire past a bundle. For example, in the T-Top down leg where the bundle turns and goes into a console, midway down the leg.

wire_tool_zpscgqodnbu.jpg
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I've had boats since 1990, and worked on them before that. It wasn't until I bought my 17 Outrage last year and tried running the transducer cable that I finally broke down and bought a Klein Tools fish fiberglass rod. In the past I have used an automobile speedometer cable replacement or repair part with much success. I also have Klein steel and fiberglass fish tapes. None of these worked.

Klein makes a 6-foot-long, 1/4-inch fiberglass glow-in-the-dark "fish" rod. Not cheap, but the quality is there, and when the tool works...Of course I needed about 8-9 feet, so I have two of these.

To connect the rods I also bought from Home Depot an aluminum spacer. These are in the chart-style drawer cabinets in the hardware isle, right by the magnets. Two 1/8-inch-holes drilled and two pieces of a nail allow me to join the rods together. I just use blue masking tape to hold the pins in. These rods are rigid enough to push through, yet flexible enough to be able to bend a bit. And being in sections allows assembly as needed in tight quarters.

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To connect the cables to the fish I use Klein wire grabber, similar in function to Chinese finger cuffs [also called a Kellems Grip]
[interesting story behind the inventors Kallems]

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This is the 3/4" - 1" -inch version. It will work with a Lowrance transducer cable end, not easily, but you can do it.


To connect the grabber to the fish I used a Sampo 300 pound test ball bearing swivel. The snap end attaches to the rod.

Sampo_swivel_zpsd2s17b7g.jpg
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The loop end is attached to the grabber with a quick clip. To attach it I tried several methods until found these quick clip fishing tackle connectors. The one below the black line. The top styles bent or popped open when trying.

Quick_snap_zpsqg7m8ow8.jpg
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I would have used pictures of my actual grabber, but it is blowing 30-50 here and is only 35 degrees with a wind chill of 25 - and earlier in the week I was in a tee shirt working on the boat.
Last edited by porthole on Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

jimh
Posts: 13326
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:25 pm
Location: Michigan, Lower Peninsula
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Re: Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Postby jimh » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:53 am

Your technique of using two magnets, one inside the conduit pulling the new pull string in place and being tugged along by a second magnet manipulated outside the conduit, is quite an interesting idea. Is it original with you? I don't recall hearing of it before.

Of course, you need a non-magnetic conduit for that technique to work. Have you tried the two-magnet technique in the rigging tunnel of a fiberglass boat? The magnetic attraction would have to be quite strong, as I suspect the internal magnet and pull string will end up having to be suspended by magnetic force inside the plastic conduit. Is there enough magnetic attraction to do that?

The two magnet technique sounds excellent for pulling a pull-string into aluminum tubing or stainless steel tubing used for supporting hard tops.

porthole
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Postby porthole » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:34 pm

jimh wrote:Your technique of using two magnets, one inside the conduit pulling the new pull string in place and being tugged along by a second magnet manipulated outside the conduit, is quite an interesting idea. Is it original with you? I don't recall hearing of it before.



I do not know if it is an original idea, although it is an original idea for me (meaning I never heard of it before). I had even done a google search of pulling T-top wires, trying to get an idea with negative results.

jimh wrote:Have you tried the two-magnet technique in the rigging tunnel of a fiberglass boat? The magnetic attraction would have to be quite strong, as I suspect the internal magnet and pull string will end up having to be suspended by magnetic force inside the plastic conduit. Is there enough magnetic attraction to do that?



No I have not, but there is quite the attraction between the two sets of magnets. I could feel an attraction between the mono/washers and my external magnets from 3-4" down the pipe. It is quite surprising how strong these magnets are. Although I did not see a warning on the Home Depot variety, I do receive warnings with magnets I have purchased from K&J Magnetics.
Their magnets are so strong that there is a danger if two magnets are allowed to attract unrestrained, as they can shatter.

I was also using the "poles" as needed with trying to get the inner magnets to move around, especially at one 90 degree turn that has 1" IPS pipe welded into a 3"x1" piece of pipe.

jimh wrote:The two magnet technique sounds excellent for pulling a pull-string into aluminum tubing or stainless steel tubing used for supporting hard tops.


Wish I had thought of it years ago.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF

conch
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:43 am
Location: Florida Keys,Hawaii,Mississippi

Re: Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Postby conch » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:35 am

I really like the magnet idea,thanks for sharing that. Instead of the Klein fish rods I like to use Sling Chair Spline as it can turn a tight radius. Using spline sold by Sailrite.com I can leave behind a pullstring as it is hollow, or I leave an exposed loop in the string extending from the hollow core and catch it by fishing with a hook from the opposite direction.
Chuck

porthole
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm
Location: LSD Lower Slower Delaware

Re: Running wires below deck and through T-Tops

Postby porthole » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:09 am

I changed the size of the line grabber above, it is not 1/2", it is 3/4" - 1", and I added a picture of how mine is set up.

Image
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF