1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
My son and I just bought a 1986 OUTRAGE 18. We have replaced the fuel tank with a new one and built a new deck from 3/4-inch-thick PVC.
The fuel tank was installed without foam. The tank maker, Luther's in Bristol, Rhode Island, strongly recommended not using foam. Instead of a foam surround, PVC material was glued to the tank with 3M5200 adhesive.
We also installed a 3/4-inch-diameter tube in [the aft end] of the fuel tank cavity [to give access for removing any water that might get in there].
The new deck was made from 4 x 8-foot sheets of 3/4-inch-thick PVC sheet purchased at Home Depot. We backed this with two layer of fiberglass roving on the underside. We also used a router to make hundreds of small 1/2-inch [diameter] holes and filled them with fiberglass resin thickened with filler powder. We also scuffed the underside of the PVC sheet so the resin would stick. This new deck is rock-solid and won't ever rot.
The whole under-deck tank system [as designed by Boston Whaler] allows water to enter the fuel tank area, making it prone to retaining water in the foam, rotting the deck. and corroding the aluminum tank. I think installing the fuel tank [without a foam surround and with a method for removal of water] will solve all the basic problems of that design.
--Davidvee
[Moderator's note: Throughout this thread I modified all the images. I downloaded them. Then I fixed the camera orientation to restore the original position of the objects to be horizontal. I corrected for errors in holding the camera at a tilted orientation. I cropped the images. I made exposure corrections. I made color corrections for images taken in deep shadows. Then I re-uploaded them to the post. I made the figure numbers sequential in the thread. I tried to apply the original captions to the images that matched them, as originally a few seemed to be out of sequence.--jimh]
The fuel tank was installed without foam. The tank maker, Luther's in Bristol, Rhode Island, strongly recommended not using foam. Instead of a foam surround, PVC material was glued to the tank with 3M5200 adhesive.
We also installed a 3/4-inch-diameter tube in [the aft end] of the fuel tank cavity [to give access for removing any water that might get in there].
The new deck was made from 4 x 8-foot sheets of 3/4-inch-thick PVC sheet purchased at Home Depot. We backed this with two layer of fiberglass roving on the underside. We also used a router to make hundreds of small 1/2-inch [diameter] holes and filled them with fiberglass resin thickened with filler powder. We also scuffed the underside of the PVC sheet so the resin would stick. This new deck is rock-solid and won't ever rot.
The whole under-deck tank system [as designed by Boston Whaler] allows water to enter the fuel tank area, making it prone to retaining water in the foam, rotting the deck. and corroding the aluminum tank. I think installing the fuel tank [without a foam surround and with a method for removal of water] will solve all the basic problems of that design.
--Davidvee
[Moderator's note: Throughout this thread I modified all the images. I downloaded them. Then I fixed the camera orientation to restore the original position of the objects to be horizontal. I corrected for errors in holding the camera at a tilted orientation. I cropped the images. I made exposure corrections. I made color corrections for images taken in deep shadows. Then I re-uploaded them to the post. I made the figure numbers sequential in the thread. I tried to apply the original captions to the images that matched them, as originally a few seemed to be out of sequence.--jimh]
Re: Drawing attached
Attached is a good drawing showing details of the fuel tank fabricated for the OUTRAGE 18 by Luther's of Bristol, Rhode Island.
Re: Where to Buy
Thank you for sharing this very interesting project.
Q1: how do you buy 3/4-inch PVC sheet from Home Depot?
Q2: What is it called?
I searched at Home Depot. Thanks
Q1: how do you buy 3/4-inch PVC sheet from Home Depot?
Q2: What is it called?
I searched at Home Depot. Thanks
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
I assume that the small "1/2-inch" holes were 1/2-inch in diameter. I don't understand the purpose of the holes.
Q3: What was your thinking for making them?
I am sure many readers will be interested in the cost for the tank, so let me ask:
Q4: What was the cost from Luther's for the fuel tank, not including any shipping or delivery charges?
Q3: What was your thinking for making them?
I am sure many readers will be interested in the cost for the tank, so let me ask:
Q4: What was the cost from Luther's for the fuel tank, not including any shipping or delivery charges?
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
To know if the new method of installation of the fuel tank and the fuel tank as fabricated by your vendor will solve the problems of the original design in the 1986 boat will require us to wait about 33-years to know if their service life exceeded the original tank and original design of the fuel tank installation.
That said, I think this installation is nicely done, and I expect it will have a long service life.
The tank label in Figure 4 is not easily to read. You might want to retake that image with sharper focus. I believe it declares the tank to be made from aluminum.
As a comparison, the fuel tank on my 1990 Boston Whaler is also aluminum but the aluminum has been given a green primer, which I assume to be zinc chromate paint as used in many aluminum structures such as aircraft. The Luther's tank look like it is raw aluminum without any paint or coating. Perhaps you can clarify that.
That said, I think this installation is nicely done, and I expect it will have a long service life.
The tank label in Figure 4 is not easily to read. You might want to retake that image with sharper focus. I believe it declares the tank to be made from aluminum.
As a comparison, the fuel tank on my 1990 Boston Whaler is also aluminum but the aluminum has been given a green primer, which I assume to be zinc chromate paint as used in many aluminum structures such as aircraft. The Luther's tank look like it is raw aluminum without any paint or coating. Perhaps you can clarify that.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
[To install] the new aluminum tank from Luther's as recommended, no foam was used, only PVC pads glued to the tank with 3M5200. The glue must form a perfect seal to keep water from getting between the pads and the metal.
I reused the [original] aluminum straps over a PVC sheet to secure the tank.
The PVC pads are also tight to the hull cavity side walls to prevent any movement of the tank.
Next step in the re-fit is to run wires, cables, fuel hoses, bonding wires, and so on. And to re-install the deck.
The deck was made from 3/4-inch PVC sheets from Home Depot that were reinforced with two layers of fiberglass roving on the underside.
I routered hundreds of 1/2-inch deep 1-inch wide holes to make the fiberglass integral to the PVC sheet. I filled the holes with a mixture of resin thickened to a peanut butter consistency with micro bubbles. I developed this technique in a [renovation] of the decks on my bass boat and it has proven to be rock solid, rot-proof, light[weght], and tight.
The PVC sheets from Home Depot are $100 for a 4 x 8-foot sheet, I used two sheets to make the 4 x 11-foot deck, used PVC plumbing pipe glue to fit the routered pieces together.
You could use KING StarBoard to make a new deck, but it is heavier and much more expensive [than the Home Depot PVC sheet that was used to make the deck].
The tank from Luther's cost $865. I picked it up. Luther's was great to work with. Luther's has made many of these tanks for other Boston Whaler boats, knew the details, showed a 3D plan with measurements, had it done in two weeks, pressure-tested, with a new tank sending unit included for a new fuel tank level gage.
The old tank was totally rotten and corroded, even though painted with the green special paint. The foam was soaked from years of being flushed with seawater constantly as it was designed to be. The deck was also rotten from the contact with water. The design of the whole tank and deck was flawed. Every whaler of this design will have the same problem.
This new technique will solve those problems and will require only a quick drain of the tank cavity every few weeks, which I have tested and has shown to work perfectly.
I used pressure washer to cut out the old tank from the deck--another tip from Luther's.
Also, the Luther's tank is raw domestic aluminum, designed with no coatings as the aluminum will develop a protective patina on its own from contact with the air
[Moderator's note: I spoke with Luther's to get clarification on the material they use. They use 0.125-inch sheet made of 5052 H32 aluminum alloy, and prefer domestic sources because of better quality material. The 5052 alloy is very good for marine environments and can be welded without loss of temper. Luther's seem to have excellent knowledge and experience with aluminum fabrication--jimh]
Any paint or coatings will eventually blister and trap water causing corrosion--Luther's statement, and they have been around for a long time making tanks for boats in Bristol. I saw some customers' old tanks at Luther's in for modifications and they looked great.
Luther's telephone is 401-253-5550
[Moderator's note: I changed all the dimensions that were originally specified in inches to be feet and the ones specified in feet to be inches. Apparently there was some confusion about using an apostrophe and a quotation mark to indicate feet and inches and they were used in the wrong way. That is one reason why I always convert them to use the words "feet" and "inches" so there is no confusion resulting from misuse of the apostrophe and the quotation marks. Also, I changed the spelling of the tank manufacturer throughout the narrative to match the spelling shown on the label, figuring that the guy who made the tank knows how he likes to spell the name of his business--jimh]
I reused the [original] aluminum straps over a PVC sheet to secure the tank.
The PVC pads are also tight to the hull cavity side walls to prevent any movement of the tank.
Next step in the re-fit is to run wires, cables, fuel hoses, bonding wires, and so on. And to re-install the deck.
The deck was made from 3/4-inch PVC sheets from Home Depot that were reinforced with two layers of fiberglass roving on the underside.
I routered hundreds of 1/2-inch deep 1-inch wide holes to make the fiberglass integral to the PVC sheet. I filled the holes with a mixture of resin thickened to a peanut butter consistency with micro bubbles. I developed this technique in a [renovation] of the decks on my bass boat and it has proven to be rock solid, rot-proof, light[weght], and tight.
The PVC sheets from Home Depot are $100 for a 4 x 8-foot sheet, I used two sheets to make the 4 x 11-foot deck, used PVC plumbing pipe glue to fit the routered pieces together.
You could use KING StarBoard to make a new deck, but it is heavier and much more expensive [than the Home Depot PVC sheet that was used to make the deck].
The tank from Luther's cost $865. I picked it up. Luther's was great to work with. Luther's has made many of these tanks for other Boston Whaler boats, knew the details, showed a 3D plan with measurements, had it done in two weeks, pressure-tested, with a new tank sending unit included for a new fuel tank level gage.
The old tank was totally rotten and corroded, even though painted with the green special paint. The foam was soaked from years of being flushed with seawater constantly as it was designed to be. The deck was also rotten from the contact with water. The design of the whole tank and deck was flawed. Every whaler of this design will have the same problem.
This new technique will solve those problems and will require only a quick drain of the tank cavity every few weeks, which I have tested and has shown to work perfectly.
I used pressure washer to cut out the old tank from the deck--another tip from Luther's.
Also, the Luther's tank is raw domestic aluminum, designed with no coatings as the aluminum will develop a protective patina on its own from contact with the air
[Moderator's note: I spoke with Luther's to get clarification on the material they use. They use 0.125-inch sheet made of 5052 H32 aluminum alloy, and prefer domestic sources because of better quality material. The 5052 alloy is very good for marine environments and can be welded without loss of temper. Luther's seem to have excellent knowledge and experience with aluminum fabrication--jimh]
Any paint or coatings will eventually blister and trap water causing corrosion--Luther's statement, and they have been around for a long time making tanks for boats in Bristol. I saw some customers' old tanks at Luther's in for modifications and they looked great.
Luther's telephone is 401-253-5550
[Moderator's note: I changed all the dimensions that were originally specified in inches to be feet and the ones specified in feet to be inches. Apparently there was some confusion about using an apostrophe and a quotation mark to indicate feet and inches and they were used in the wrong way. That is one reason why I always convert them to use the words "feet" and "inches" so there is no confusion resulting from misuse of the apostrophe and the quotation marks. Also, I changed the spelling of the tank manufacturer throughout the narrative to match the spelling shown on the label, figuring that the guy who made the tank knows how he likes to spell the name of his business--jimh]
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Home Depot Link
Acassidy wrote:Q1: how do you buy 3/4-inch PVC sheet from Home Depot?
Q2: What is it called?
[It is called "Veranda White Reversible PVC Trim Sheet]
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-HP-3-4-in-x-48-in-x-8-ft-White-Reversible-PVC-Trim-Sheet-H190AWS13/206822526
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Do you have a picture of the routered joint for the two panels and where you decided to place the seam?
Looks good,
Chuck
Looks good,
Chuck
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
As seen above [not the boat under discussion], holes were made in the PVC reinforcement sheet. These holes were later filled with thickened resin to strengthen the bond of the roving to the PVC. I also scuffed the PVC sheet surface for better adhesion.
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
The original fuel tank, as originally installed by Boston Whaler, after 33-years in use in saltwater:
Last edited by davidvee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Where to Buy PVC Sheet at Home Depot
Acassidy wrote:Q1: how do you buy 3/4-inch PVC sheet from Home Depot?
Q2: what is it called?
[It is called "Veranda White Reversible PVC Trim Sheet]
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-HP-3-4-in-x-48-in-x-8-ft-White-Reversible-PVC-Trim-Sheet-H190AWS13/206822526
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Deck is in.
I used Total Boat resin from Jamestown Distributors. I chose the 2:1 ratio resin:hardener to give extended set time, to create more flex, and to reduce brittleness.
To seal the new deck to the hull a bead of silicon sealant was used. There are stainless steel screws at 4-inch spacing. The new deck is rock-solid and won't rust.
Next: re-wire.
I used Total Boat resin from Jamestown Distributors. I chose the 2:1 ratio resin:hardener to give extended set time, to create more flex, and to reduce brittleness.
To seal the new deck to the hull a bead of silicon sealant was used. There are stainless steel screws at 4-inch spacing. The new deck is rock-solid and won't rust.
Next: re-wire.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
I am very surprised by the new deck seen in Figure 18. I thought you were going to reinforce the original deck with the PVC. Now it looks like you discarded the original deck section and just have a flat PVC sheet as the cockpit deck.
Q5: What happened to the original deck?
Q6: If the next step is to re-wire, does that mean you are done with the deck?
Q7: Have you made any tests of the new deck's flat surface with regard to traction when wet?
Q8: What was illustrated in Figure 10?
Q9: As seen in Figure 18, there appears to be enormous contrast in the color of the new deck to the original deck of the boat's cockpit. Is the photo representative of the two colors now seen in the boat deck?
Q5: What happened to the original deck?
Q6: If the next step is to re-wire, does that mean you are done with the deck?
Q7: Have you made any tests of the new deck's flat surface with regard to traction when wet?
Q8: What was illustrated in Figure 10?
Q9: As seen in Figure 18, there appears to be enormous contrast in the color of the new deck to the original deck of the boat's cockpit. Is the photo representative of the two colors now seen in the boat deck?
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
{REPLY EDITED TO SEPARATE RESPONSE FROM QUOTED MATERIAL. The replies were buried in a long quote and hard to detect.--jimh]
I wanted to fix the flawed Boston Whaler deck and fuel tank design, and I think this does it.
I could have stripped the rotted wood backing of the old deck and bonded the deck top skin to the PVC, but I thought [the old deck] was redundant and would just add 120-lbs of unneeded weight to the deck.
Purists could paint the PVC deck [OUTRAGE GRAY] but that was not part of my goal. I like that the new deck is different and think it makes a statement.
LONG STORY BEHIND THIS PROJECT
Last year I met Peter Van [Lancker], who designed the 1992 OUTRAGE 21 with a deep V-hull, which replaced the classic OUTRAGE hulls of previous years. He explained the problems with the old OUTRAGE models and how he fixed them. He gave me a history lesson on the later years of Boston Whaler. I personally like the stability of the older classic whalers, so I took his advice on fixing the fuel tank system and went looking for an older OUTRAGE to renovate.
{The original deck was] tossed. It was a rotting nasty hulk. I wanted [the deck] to be rot proofjimh wrote:Q5: What happened to the original deck?
Yes.jimh wrote:Q6: If the next step is to re-wire, does that mean you are done with the deck?
The top surface of the raw PVC is textured with an embossed faux wood grain, so it has good grip. I did test it with boat shoes and bare feet when wet and it has the same grip as the textured original Boston Whaler deck, if not betterjimh wrote:Q7: Have you made any tests of the new deck's flat surface with regard to traction when wet?
[Figure 10 shows] a close-up of the bottom of the new deck, two layers of roving. and the router-finished edge. The new deck is also 120-lbs lighter than the old deck.jimh wrote:Q8: What was illustrated in Figure 10?
Yes the colors are different, I was not going for a perfect color match, but more for a better system that will last indefinitely with no rot, sagging floors, mold, and so on.jimh wrote:Q9: As seen in Figure 18, there appears to be enormous contrast in the color of the new deck to the original deck of the boat's cockpit. Is that just a problem in the photograph or is the photo representative of the two colors now seen in the boat deck?
I wanted to fix the flawed Boston Whaler deck and fuel tank design, and I think this does it.
I could have stripped the rotted wood backing of the old deck and bonded the deck top skin to the PVC, but I thought [the old deck] was redundant and would just add 120-lbs of unneeded weight to the deck.
Purists could paint the PVC deck [OUTRAGE GRAY] but that was not part of my goal. I like that the new deck is different and think it makes a statement.
LONG STORY BEHIND THIS PROJECT
Last year I met Peter Van [Lancker], who designed the 1992 OUTRAGE 21 with a deep V-hull, which replaced the classic OUTRAGE hulls of previous years. He explained the problems with the old OUTRAGE models and how he fixed them. He gave me a history lesson on the later years of Boston Whaler. I personally like the stability of the older classic whalers, so I took his advice on fixing the fuel tank system and went looking for an older OUTRAGE to renovate.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
That you met Peter Van Lancker is quite interesting. His hull designs for Boston Whaler had a relatively short production run. Generally boat designers tend to be most fond of their own designs and more critical of the work of others. After Van Lancker left Boston Whaler, the next chief designer replaced most of Van Lancker's designs with new ones of his own, and I am sure that new designer "fixed the problems" in the Van Lancker hulls.
I suggest you might start a new thread and share your recollections of your conversation with Van Lancker. I think there would be strong interest in hearing what he had to say in his account of the history of Boston Whaler hull design from his perspective.
Again, your refurbishment of the fuel tank and the change in mounting look very good. I expect there will be a long service life.
Using a different material for the center deck section of an OUTRAGE 18 has been done before. In particular, I am thinking of GAMBLER, as seen in CETACEA Page 81:
![Image](http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/images/81/newCockpitDeck600x590.jpg)
Fig. 19. OUTRAGE 18 deck replaced by marine plywood laminated to teak decking material. Originally in CETACEA Page 81. Photo by the author.
I suggest you might start a new thread and share your recollections of your conversation with Van Lancker. I think there would be strong interest in hearing what he had to say in his account of the history of Boston Whaler hull design from his perspective.
Again, your refurbishment of the fuel tank and the change in mounting look very good. I expect there will be a long service life.
Using a different material for the center deck section of an OUTRAGE 18 has been done before. In particular, I am thinking of GAMBLER, as seen in CETACEA Page 81:
![Image](http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/images/81/newCockpitDeck600x590.jpg)
Fig. 19. OUTRAGE 18 deck replaced by marine plywood laminated to teak decking material. Originally in CETACEA Page 81. Photo by the author.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Q10: Again in regard to Figure 10, is the new deck made up of more than one 3/4-inch-thickness of the PVC sheet material?
It looks like perhaps two sheets were used, with the upper sheet the full size and the second sheet somewhat smaller.
ASIDE: David--you have more gray hair than I expected to see.
It looks like perhaps two sheets were used, with the upper sheet the full size and the second sheet somewhat smaller.
ASIDE: David--you have more gray hair than I expected to see.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
[For a] 1986 [OUTRAGE 18, the interior gel coat color] is Desert Tan. I think all interiors have been Desert Tan, but the exteriors up to 1983 mostly were Outrage Gray, like my 1981 SPORT 13. Outrage Gray is actually a dead ringer for 1971 to 1976 Johnson White outboard paint; don't ask me how I know.
If it were me I would have used the OEM deck—if not spider cracked to hell or otherwise damaged. I would have used a modern coring that is much stronger than wood when in contact with resin. This would be like DIVINYCELL or NidaCore. I have used modern corning on soft decks and it is unbelievably strong, will never rot, and much lighter than PVC.
If it were me I would have used the OEM deck—if not spider cracked to hell or otherwise damaged. I would have used a modern coring that is much stronger than wood when in contact with resin. This would be like DIVINYCELL or NidaCore. I have used modern corning on soft decks and it is unbelievably strong, will never rot, and much lighter than PVC.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
jimh wrote:Q10: Again in regard to Figure 10, is the new deck made up of more than one 3/4-inch-thickness of the PVC sheet material?
It looks like perhaps two sheets were used, with the upper sheet the full size and the second sheet somewhat smaller.
ASIDE: David--you have more gray hair than I expected to see.
Ha! Three kids will do that to your hair. The deck is one piece of 3/4 inch thick PVC that i router-ed a 2-inch flange around the perimeter so that it would fit into the in hull depression exactly
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
biggiefl wrote: I would have used a modern coring...like DIVINYCELL.....
I looked at DIVINYCELL H and actually tried it on a portion of my earlier bass boat renovation. DIVINYCELL H worked well in a small area, but over an entire deck I worried that it would be very expensive, too brittle, and might crack under stress.
The PVC sheet is strong yet a bit flexible and the Total Boat 2:1 resin system is also designed to have flex for use in large deck areas. I was also able to use the PVC sheet as an entire deck system without the old deck skin. Everyone has different goals--all good.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Van Lanker is a funny guy, very knowledgeable. He is also a member of continuous wave, so watch out, he might pop in here at some point.jimh wrote:That you met Peter Van Lancker is quite interesting...
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
I saw GAMBLER’s deck, and though beautiful, eventually it will rot from the inside if the tank is in foam.
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Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
PVC sheets are the most common and age-old option [for replacing the deck].
Q11: are any other decorative and long-lasting materials available?
Q11: are any other decorative and long-lasting materials available?
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
RichardCollinge wrote:Q11: are any other decorative and long-lasting materials available?
I looked at every option and i think PVC sheet is the best. as long as the PVC sheet is reinforced with fiberglass in the right way, i.e., two layers of roving with a pattern of holes filled with thickened resin; this deck will last indefinitely, no rot, super strong, good flex, half the weight of the marine plywood original deck, not to mention inexpensive compared to KING StarBoard or DIVINYCELL. Combine that with a no-foam fuel tank installation and the basic design flaws of the original system are fixed.
if the embossed pattern and color of the deck are a problem, maybe painting the deck with Desert Tan will suffice or laminate the PVC deck to the original deck skin after removing the plywood backing. But. as I said, I think that is redundant and adds to the weight of the deck for only aesthetic reasons.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
RichardCollinge wrote:...I think that [laminating a PVC sheet to reinforce the original deck is] redundant and adds to the weight of the deck for only aesthetic reasons.
Aesthetic reasons are often critical elements in the long-lasting and on-going attraction of classic Boston Whaler boats to their owners, so I would not discard the preservation of the original aesthetic of a classic Boston Whaler boat as an inconsequential outcome of using PVC sheet material to replace the original laminated and molded deck section.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
RichardCollinge wrote:PVC sheets are the most common and age-old option [for replacing the deck].
Please direct readers to some other examples of this "common and age-old " use of HomeDepot 3/4-inch PVC sheet material to replace molded and laminated deck sections on Boston Whaler boats or other variations of PVC sheet on other boats.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
The materials sold under the trade names DIVINYCELL and NidaCore are available in many forms, with varying thickness, strength, and scoring to permit bending and flexing in a molded-in application with curved surfaces. They have been used for building lighter-weight laminate composites in boat building for decades. They are not structural materials in themselves, but become part of laminated structures.
An alternative to PVC sheet material as a structural material is wood. The tendency for wood to rot is overcome with careful sealing with epoxy resin. When wood is well-sealed and coated with epoxy it becomes a very strong, light weight, and durable material for use in a marine environment. The aesthetic of epoxy-wood constructed elements for use in a boat is in harmony with the general aesthetic of the classic Boston Whaler boat which used a combination of fiber-reinforced-plastic laminates and wood elements. For many, the combination of wood and fiberglass is an essential part of a classic Boston Whaler boat.
An alternative to PVC sheet material as a structural material is wood. The tendency for wood to rot is overcome with careful sealing with epoxy resin. When wood is well-sealed and coated with epoxy it becomes a very strong, light weight, and durable material for use in a marine environment. The aesthetic of epoxy-wood constructed elements for use in a boat is in harmony with the general aesthetic of the classic Boston Whaler boat which used a combination of fiber-reinforced-plastic laminates and wood elements. For many, the combination of wood and fiberglass is an essential part of a classic Boston Whaler boat.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
jimh wrote:Aesthetic reasons are often critical elements in the long-lasting and on-going attraction of classic Boston Whaler boats to their owners, so I would not discard the preservation of the original aesthetic of a classic Boston Whaler boat as an inconsequential outcome of using PVC sheet material to replace the original laminated and molded deck section.
I agree that people have various goals with their Boston Whaler boat restorations. I am a form-follows-function kind of guy, and Boston Whalers are that. I think the most simple solution is usually the best, but I do appreciate that others may have different opinions.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
Re cost of DIVINYCELL H: a 4 x 8-foot sheet of 3/4-inch DIVINYCELL H retails for about $200. See
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Core_Materials/core_materials.html
Curiously, DIVINYCELL H is described as "a rigid PVC foam with a closed, inert gas filled cellular structure."
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Core_Materials/core_materials.html
Curiously, DIVINYCELL H is described as "a rigid PVC foam with a closed, inert gas filled cellular structure."
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
My friend uses both [DIVINYCELL and NidaCore] to make floors on his custom boats he builds. You can whack it with sledgehammer once cured. I have nothing against PVC but I always thought it was more for upholstery than decking material. I also thought you could not router PVC as it would melt but obviously that is untrue. If you think $200 is expensive try a 4 x 8-sheet of KING StarBoard.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall(for sale cheap).
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
jimh wrote:Re cost of DIVINYCELL H: a 4 x 8-foot sheet of 3/4-inch DIVINYCELL H retails for about $200. See
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Core_Materials/core_materials.html
Curiously, DIVINYCELL H is described as "a rigid PVC foam with a closed, inert gas filled cellular structure."
Wow--thats a good price for Divinycell. I paid $100 for a small sheet 2 x 3-foot that I used in the Bass Boat. It also absorbed a lot of resin, which is expensive, and probably very heavy. I also wondered about flex, as the deck would need to absorb lots of weight bouncing around as whalers do with 200-lbs occupants. Divinycell also doesn't offer an embossed finished surface that the PVC sheet does. so it might be a good core replacement to shore up an existing deck, but the weight of 3/4"inch x 4-feet x 10-feet deck of that stuff would be hundreds of pounds, I don't think it would router very well for the deck flange either--but give it a try.
I just read the Divinycell instructions and found out it can become waterlogged from exposure to water through cracks or holes just like the foam core of the Boston Whaler hulls can become waterlogged; that is another reason to go with the PVC, which is water proof, rot proof, and light
http://www.marinesurvey.com/yacht/material.htm
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
I don't understand how there can be two materials made of PVC and both are 3/4-inch thick, one a solid PVC and the other a PVC foam with inert gas filled cells. The solid material cannot be lower in weight than the foam material.
It seem inherent in any material that is described as a closed-cell foam that if the material is crushed or damaged in some way, the closed cells may rupture and become linked in a manner that then permits water to occupy the cells. The problem of crushing is to be solved in the design stage, that is, by making the structure employing closed cell foam to be strong enough to resist the expected forces that will be acting on it. There are many--thousands of--Boston Whaler boats built with closed-cell foam construction that remain undamaged after decades of use in all sorts of conditions.
It seem inherent in any material that is described as a closed-cell foam that if the material is crushed or damaged in some way, the closed cells may rupture and become linked in a manner that then permits water to occupy the cells. The problem of crushing is to be solved in the design stage, that is, by making the structure employing closed cell foam to be strong enough to resist the expected forces that will be acting on it. There are many--thousands of--Boston Whaler boats built with closed-cell foam construction that remain undamaged after decades of use in all sorts of conditions.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
davidvee wrote:...http://www.marinesurvey.com/yacht/material.htm
Although you don't explain what information is to be found at the linked resource, it leads to David Pascoe's well-known website in which he gives his opinion on use of cored hull materials, particularly closed-cell foam. If you read the article, the principle problem seems to be inadequate bonding of the closed-cell foam material to their abutting laminates, particularly in the case of use of foam core materials on the running surfaces of the boat.
If one were to follow Pascoe's advice, no Boston Whaler boat should ever be purchased, as all of them use closed-cell foam material in conjunction with a thin laminate. It seems reasonable to conclude that anyone who has bought a Boston Whaler boat is ignoring Pascoe's advice. If you believed in his observations and recommendations, you'd never buy a Boston Whaler boat.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
I do not have a total overall view of the fuel tank on my Boston Whaler boat that shows the entire tank, as the image at Figure 14 above shows for David's fuel tank, but I do have this view of the tank as seen at the fuel filler connection access port:
As can be seen, the fuel tank retains its original green anti-corrosion paint, and there are no signs of rot, rust, or mildew. The tank appears in a similar manner at the other two access plates: at the tank level gauge and at the fuel pickup hoses. This boat was made in 1990. The photo was taken in 2014, when the access hatch plate was being replaced. The boat was 24-years old at that time. At this moment, 2019, the boat is now 29-years old and the fuel tank appearance remains as shown in Figure 20, above.
Although there are Boston Whaler boats of similar age whose fuel tanks have decayed, I believe the condition of a fuel tank at advanced ages of 25-years-old or older will likely be more related to prior care and prior use of the boat than to inherent and unavoidable mistakes in the design of the boat.
As can be seen, the fuel tank retains its original green anti-corrosion paint, and there are no signs of rot, rust, or mildew. The tank appears in a similar manner at the other two access plates: at the tank level gauge and at the fuel pickup hoses. This boat was made in 1990. The photo was taken in 2014, when the access hatch plate was being replaced. The boat was 24-years old at that time. At this moment, 2019, the boat is now 29-years old and the fuel tank appearance remains as shown in Figure 20, above.
Although there are Boston Whaler boats of similar age whose fuel tanks have decayed, I believe the condition of a fuel tank at advanced ages of 25-years-old or older will likely be more related to prior care and prior use of the boat than to inherent and unavoidable mistakes in the design of the boat.
Finally Done
[The restoration of the 1986 OUTRAGE 18 is finally done.]
The new laminated fiberglass and PVC sheet deck is very stiff and strong, even after a shakedown season of many long trips to Martha's Vineyard, Boston, Narragansett, and other ports.
The new fuel tank was installed without foam. and that is is working great. A separate bilge pump keeps [the fuel tank cavity] clean and dry.
The trailer has new wheels, bunks, rotors, and hitch coupler
The leaning post will be put back in place in Spring 2021 after reupholstering.
I replaced the bow rail and console rail screws with stainless steel rivets using a technique I found here on continuousWave--worked great.
The engine was just winterized with new gear oil and five quarts of engine lubricating oil. A new fuel-water separating filter and new oil filter were installed . I ran the engine on a small external tank with Yamalube fogging oil to get the injectors coated.
Thanks for all the help and will see you in Spring 2021--David
Note: I had not put on the registration numbers when the photograph (above) was taken. The state was slow in sending them to me.
The new laminated fiberglass and PVC sheet deck is very stiff and strong, even after a shakedown season of many long trips to Martha's Vineyard, Boston, Narragansett, and other ports.
The new fuel tank was installed without foam. and that is is working great. A separate bilge pump keeps [the fuel tank cavity] clean and dry.
The trailer has new wheels, bunks, rotors, and hitch coupler
The leaning post will be put back in place in Spring 2021 after reupholstering.
I replaced the bow rail and console rail screws with stainless steel rivets using a technique I found here on continuousWave--worked great.
The engine was just winterized with new gear oil and five quarts of engine lubricating oil. A new fuel-water separating filter and new oil filter were installed . I ran the engine on a small external tank with Yamalube fogging oil to get the injectors coated.
Thanks for all the help and will see you in Spring 2021--David
Note: I had not put on the registration numbers when the photograph (above) was taken. The state was slow in sending them to me.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
From a post in October 2019, about 13-months ago:
If I had to do [the rebuild of GAMBLER] again, I would have used NidaCore or some other synthetic material under the teak. I think [the deck on GAMBLER] should remain solid for decades as the wood was fully encased in fiberglass when constructed. After all, the original deck was constructed the same way and lasted for decades.
I will also add that the tank being in foam has little to do with the tank cover deterioration so long as it is not compromised. The way [GAMBER] was done, the only rot would occur from an unsealed screw penetrating the substrate. The screws to hold the tank cover down do not go through any coring--they just go through just the teak, and then a solid fiberglass layer underneath. No possibility of rot via wicking into the core substrate.
I did not replace the fuel tank on my project, but I did replace all the fuel lines. Again, in hindsight, I would have pulled the fuel tank as this project is a lot of work.
daviddvee wrote:I saw GAMBLER’s deck, and though beautiful, eventually it will rot from the inside if the tank is in foam.
If I had to do [the rebuild of GAMBLER] again, I would have used NidaCore or some other synthetic material under the teak. I think [the deck on GAMBLER] should remain solid for decades as the wood was fully encased in fiberglass when constructed. After all, the original deck was constructed the same way and lasted for decades.
I will also add that the tank being in foam has little to do with the tank cover deterioration so long as it is not compromised. The way [GAMBER] was done, the only rot would occur from an unsealed screw penetrating the substrate. The screws to hold the tank cover down do not go through any coring--they just go through just the teak, and then a solid fiberglass layer underneath. No possibility of rot via wicking into the core substrate.
I did not replace the fuel tank on my project, but I did replace all the fuel lines. Again, in hindsight, I would have pulled the fuel tank as this project is a lot of work.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
GAMBLER was one of the coolest OUTRAGE 18 boats ever seen. It used to always put a smile on my face just looking out from my boat at GAMBLER cruising alongside us with that full canvas and twin E-TEC 90-HP engines.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
UPDATE JULY 2021. The 1985 OUTRAGE 18 is running great. The fuel tank is dry. The deck still looks good, is super-stiff, and no rot is possible. All boat systems are good.
In retrospect, the fuel tank should have been fabricated 4-inches shorter to leave room at the aft end to install a deck access hatch, which would allow access to a drain plug in bottom of the fuel tank cavity that could be pulled out for drainage as needed, as well as accommodate a pump system I have now. Those changes would have made life easier in storage. I'll do it next.
Otherwise I have no regrets about the changes I did make. The modified 1986 OUTRAGE 18 a great boat.
In retrospect, the fuel tank should have been fabricated 4-inches shorter to leave room at the aft end to install a deck access hatch, which would allow access to a drain plug in bottom of the fuel tank cavity that could be pulled out for drainage as needed, as well as accommodate a pump system I have now. Those changes would have made life easier in storage. I'll do it next.
Otherwise I have no regrets about the changes I did make. The modified 1986 OUTRAGE 18 a great boat.
Re: 1986 OUTRAGE 18 Replace Deck with PVC Sheet; New Fuel Tank
davidvee wrote:UPDATE JULY 2021. The 1985 OUTRAGE 18 is running great. The fuel tank is dry. The deck still looks good, is super-stiff, and no rot is possible. All boat systems are good.
In retrospect, the fuel tank should have been fabricated 4-inches shorter to leave room at the aft end to install a deck access hatch, which would allow access to a drain plug in bottom of the fuel tank cavity that could be pulled out for drainage as needed, as well as accommodate a pump system I have now. Those changes would have made life easier in storage. I'll do it next.
Otherwise I have no regrets about the changes I did make. The modified 1986 OUTRAGE 18 a great boat.
Are you saying you would plan to drill a new drain hole in the keel to drain the tank cavity? I strongly considered this with my project 18 Outrage, but decided against; primarily because I was concerned about introducing structural integrity problems. It would, however be extremely nice for storage.
1991 21 Walkaround, 2001 Yamaha 250 OX66
1987 Outrage 18 [project]
1987 Outrage 18 [project]