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Author Topic:   What's a clean 20' Outrage worth?

maverick posted 03-27-2002 06:22 PM ET (US)
Good friend of mine mentioned that he was thinking seriously of selling his early 1980s 20' Outrage. Any ideas on what he should ask? The boat is extra clean inside and out, and it does have (very very thin) bottom paint, even thougb it was in rack storage for many years prior to his purchase. About two years ago he repowered with new Johnson 90s with TNT. I'd guess that he hasn't put more than 30-40 hours on them, hence the reason for his mention today that he was considering selling. I'm not buying at all, I've got my hands full with just one whaler at this point! Anyway, it has nice dual axle galv trailer with brakes, etc. Any thoughts on how much I should tell him to ask for it? A 20 Outrage is sorta a rare bird, and this one is pretty darn clean with low miles - not like you see them for sale all the time. Boat is in Aiken, South Carolina. Thanks, Mav
maverick posted 03-27-2002 06:24 PM ET (US)
Oh yeah, it has lots of goodies and extras, too, like fancy electronics, bimini canvas, dodger canvas, and I think outriggers. Also has two seats behind console, not RPS. Mav
jimh posted 03-28-2002 08:10 AM ET (US)
Your friend's boat is somewhat atypical of older Whalers on the market. It is a boat over 20-year-old, but with only two year old twin engines. These two factors will make its value much higher than the usual used Whaler.
Selling just after re-powering is probably not the optimum point on the depreciation curve for outboard motors.
Many buyers are acustomed to 20-foot boats only having single power, and they will not immediately understand the significantly more expensive cost of twin outboard power.
Twin engines usually implies hydraulic steering (about a $1,000 upgrade), twin batteries (more $), twin fuel systems, twin gauges, spare props, and other upgrades from baseline single engine rigging, not to mention the tandem axle trailer.
All that said, the boat's value can be judged by comparing it to prices for an 18 and a 22, two hulls in greater supply.
People have sold single engine 18-footers for more than $16,000. And people have bought single engine 22-footers for less than $16,000. Let's add $4,000 for the second engine. This gives us an over-under target of $20,000. I would think that would be the rock-bottom level.
The key to selling your friend's boat is to locate a buyer who will appreciate (literally) the value of the nearly-new twin engines, and be willing to pay fair market price for the hull, i.e, more than they'd pay for an 18 with a 20-year-old single outboard on the transom.

David Ratusnik posted 03-28-2002 08:30 AM ET (US)
Mav- jimh's analysis and numbers are on target for the boat in question if For Sale in FLA. I believe those interested would be hard core fishing types. The boat might draw this crowd if the owner added a light weight t top plus leaning post. The hull is worth 8-10K. .03 David
george nagy posted 03-28-2002 09:11 AM ET (US)
What year is the hull?
Bigshot posted 03-28-2002 11:58 AM ET (US)
$20k?.....maybe $15k. Dropping $12k on new engines does not mean you can get the $12k back.
witness posted 03-28-2002 12:01 PM ET (US)
Come on BS, that boat would be a steal for $15k if it is anything like what Mav says it is...
gf posted 03-28-2002 12:44 PM ET (US)

I agree with $15K. I looked at a '92 Outrage 22 with twin '92 Mercury 135s in Maine last fall that sold for $20K. Now maybe that boat was a steal, but I don't think you could get the same money for an older 20 even with new motors.
As an aside, there is a guy near me selling a classic Mako 21 with twin 2000 Johnson 90s for $15K. Pretty comparabale boat I would think.
Bigshot posted 03-28-2002 12:56 PM ET (US)
A steal? Then where were you guys when that 20' was on E-Bay for $9500 buy it now? You could have bought that, sold the 1995 225 Johnson for say $4k and then bought new 90 hp 4 strokes for it WITH warranties and 2002 4 strokes and been around $18k.
Think outside the box people or you will always overpay:)
jimh posted 03-28-2002 11:29 PM ET (US)
These unseen appraisals are really just guesses, but I do want to make these comments:
We've had people report boats they have purchased at prices about 50% of some other guy's asking price, yet they would be completely unwilling to sell at that price. In other words, there is a big gap in the price people are willing to sell and the price the same people are willing to buy.
We've had people buy boats, maybe bargain priced ones, then return to describe how they need to replace the transom's rotted wood, remove the belly tank, refinish the upholstery, redo all the wood, have the engines rebuilt or replaced, etc.
All that time, material, and labor is worth something--even if you do it yourself--and I can't expect sellers to just lower their price because someone sold a boat in poor shape at half their asking price.
maverick posted 03-29-2002 07:11 AM ET (US)
Thanks much for all the input and comments. I'll hit "print" and give to my friend. George, the hull is an 81 or 82. Knowing what 18s typically go for (I just sold my 18.6 about 2 mos ago), I'm leaning toward the higher end of the price ranges for his 20', like $19k, as it is in near pristine condition, and is a very [good] and unique combination of ride, trailerability, exceptional power and high reliability with twin engines. Couple that with the very low hours, it's a good one. I also know about
"deals" out there, too - I've looked at some, and bought some. My experience has been that you usually get what you pay for, and "time" is money where repairs are concerned. Some folks say their rig is excellent, but their idea of excellent and mine are many times 2 different animals. Anyway, this 20 is really a nice one and unique, and while I recognize depreciation of new motors is an issue, I believe he'll get a high price since it's so clean and unusual with practically no hours. Thanks again, I'll give him your recommendations! Mav

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Author	Topic: What's a clean 20' Outrage worth?
maverick	posted 03-27-2002 06:22 PM ET (US) Good friend of mine mentioned that he was thinking seriously of selling his early 1980s 20' Outrage. Any ideas on what he should ask? The boat is extra clean inside and out, and it does have (very very thin) bottom paint, even thougb it was in rack storage for many years prior to his purchase. About two years ago he repowered with new Johnson 90s with TNT. I'd guess that he hasn't put more than 30-40 hours on them, hence the reason for his mention today that he was considering selling. I'm not buying at all, I've got my hands full with just one whaler at this point! Anyway, it has nice dual axle galv trailer with brakes, etc. Any thoughts on how much I should tell him to ask for it? A 20 Outrage is sorta a rare bird, and this one is pretty darn clean with low miles - not like you see them for sale all the time. Boat is in Aiken, South Carolina. Thanks, Mav
maverick	posted 03-27-2002 06:24 PM ET (US) Oh yeah, it has lots of goodies and extras, too, like fancy electronics, bimini canvas, dodger canvas, and I think outriggers. Also has two seats behind console, not RPS. Mav
jimh	posted 03-28-2002 08:10 AM ET (US) Your friend's boat is somewhat atypical of older Whalers on the market. It is a boat over 20-year-old, but with only two year old twin engines. These two factors will make its value much higher than the usual used Whaler. Selling just after re-powering is probably not the optimum point on the depreciation curve for outboard motors. Many buyers are acustomed to 20-foot boats only having single power, and they will not immediately understand the significantly more expensive cost of twin outboard power. Twin engines usually implies hydraulic steering (about a $1,000 upgrade), twin batteries (more $), twin fuel systems, twin gauges, spare props, and other upgrades from baseline single engine rigging, not to mention the tandem axle trailer. All that said, the boat's value can be judged by comparing it to prices for an 18 and a 22, two hulls in greater supply. People have sold single engine 18-footers for more than $16,000. And people have bought single engine 22-footers for less than $16,000. Let's add $4,000 for the second engine. This gives us an over-under target of $20,000. I would think that would be the rock-bottom level. The key to selling your friend's boat is to locate a buyer who will appreciate (literally) the value of the nearly-new twin engines, and be willing to pay fair market price for the hull, i.e, more than they'd pay for an 18 with a 20-year-old single outboard on the transom.
David Ratusnik	posted 03-28-2002 08:30 AM ET (US) Mav- jimh's analysis and numbers are on target for the boat in question if For Sale in FLA. I believe those interested would be hard core fishing types. The boat might draw this crowd if the owner added a light weight t top plus leaning post. The hull is worth 8-10K. .03 David
george nagy	posted 03-28-2002 09:11 AM ET (US) What year is the hull?
Bigshot	posted 03-28-2002 11:58 AM ET (US) $20k?.....maybe $15k. Dropping $12k on new engines does not mean you can get the $12k back.
witness	posted 03-28-2002 12:01 PM ET (US) Come on BS, that boat would be a steal for $15k if it is anything like what Mav says it is...
gf	posted 03-28-2002 12:44 PM ET (US) I agree with $15K. I looked at a '92 Outrage 22 with twin '92 Mercury 135s in Maine last fall that sold for $20K. Now maybe that boat was a steal, but I don't think you could get the same money for an older 20 even with new motors. As an aside, there is a guy near me selling a classic Mako 21 with twin 2000 Johnson 90s for $15K. Pretty comparabale boat I would think.
Bigshot	posted 03-28-2002 12:56 PM ET (US) A steal? Then where were you guys when that 20' was on E-Bay for $9500 buy it now? You could have bought that, sold the 1995 225 Johnson for say $4k and then bought new 90 hp 4 strokes for it WITH warranties and 2002 4 strokes and been around $18k. Think outside the box people or you will always overpay:)
jimh	posted 03-28-2002 11:29 PM ET (US) These unseen appraisals are really just guesses, but I do want to make these comments: We've had people report boats they have purchased at prices about 50% of some other guy's asking price, yet they would be completely unwilling to sell at that price. In other words, there is a big gap in the price people are willing to sell and the price the same people are willing to buy. We've had people buy boats, maybe bargain priced ones, then return to describe how they need to replace the transom's rotted wood, remove the belly tank, refinish the upholstery, redo all the wood, have the engines rebuilt or replaced, etc. All that time, material, and labor is worth something--even if you do it yourself--and I can't expect sellers to just lower their price because someone sold a boat in poor shape at half their asking price.
maverick	posted 03-29-2002 07:11 AM ET (US) Thanks much for all the input and comments. I'll hit "print" and give to my friend. George, the hull is an 81 or 82. Knowing what 18s typically go for (I just sold my 18.6 about 2 mos ago), I'm leaning toward the higher end of the price ranges for his 20', like $19k, as it is in near pristine condition, and is a very [good] and unique combination of ride, trailerability, exceptional power and high reliability with twin engines. Couple that with the very low hours, it's a good one. I also know about "deals" out there, too - I've looked at some, and bought some. My experience has been that you usually get what you pay for, and "time" is money where repairs are concerned. Some folks say their rig is excellent, but their idea of excellent and mine are many times 2 different animals. Anyway, this 20 is really a nice one and unique, and while I recognize depreciation of new motors is an issue, I believe he'll get a high price since it's so clean and unusual with practically no hours. Thanks again, I'll give him your recommendations! Mav