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Author Topic:   Why are Montauks not self bailing?

alvispollard posted 04-23-2002 10:58 PM ET (US)
I am a satisfied Montauk owner of 10 years. Just ordered another Rule 1100 gph bilge pump. Why are the Montauk not self bailing? Smaller whalers and of course larger whalers are. Are the new Montauk's self bailing? Just wondering.
Dick posted 04-23-2002 11:34 PM ET (US)
No the Montauk is not self bailing untill you get it on plane, but at that point what little water that is in the boat is gone. That is providing that the bilge plug has been left out.
hughmcmillan posted 04-24-2002 09:56 AM ET (US)
It isn't self bailing simply because the sole is below the waterline.
Wreckdiver posted 04-24-2002 10:08 AM ET (US)
The new Montauk has a bilg pump in the sump, just like the older one.
Bob
Tsuriki BW posted 04-24-2002 10:15 AM ET (US)
By the "sole" do you mean the deck flooring? How high are the gunnels on the Montauk?
Are Montauks the only "non self bailing" Whaler. Any reason for this "design"? Hmmmm Interesting.
Tsuriki
Tom W Clark posted 04-24-2002 11:46 AM ET (US)
The cockpit sole is the "floor" of the boat.
The Montauk is not the only non self-bailing Whaler. Or looking at it another way, the Montauk is serf bailing just like all the rest of the Whalers.
It depends on your definition of self bailing. Any Whaler will leave some water above the cockpit sole if there is enough weight in the boat or a big enough motor on the transom just as any Whaler will drain the water out if you leave the plug out regardless if there is water above or below the cockpit sole.
The Montauk is in no way unique in this regard.
Seabrook posted 04-24-2002 12:44 PM ET (US)
Use a ping-pong ball type stopper instead of a plug. I have one in my Montauk. You never have to worry about using the plug, and evertime you plane the boat, all the water runs out. Keep stopper clean and it does not leak.
Salmon Tub posted 04-24-2002 12:48 PM ET (US)
By self-bailing, I assume you are comparing it to "self-bailing" boats that have a plug and do not self bail the water out of the bilge, but rather have the sole above the water line, and have scuppers. Boats with that design can have the deck washed with a few buckets from over the side, and the water drains out the boat. Most cuddy cabins are like this. If water drains into the engine well (bilge), then you either remove it by pulling the plug, or via a pump. I have never removed the plug in my Montauk to see how deep it will fill before it levels off, but a buddy of mine did that with an older 16' hull and it took on about 5" of water inside until it stopped filling. Once under way, the water drains out the drain plug hole. Whenever we get salmon, I always pull the plug just as I get ready to go, and while I plow the boat just below plane, my partner will grab the mop, dip into the ocean, and scrub loose all the blood and scales. Then, a few bucket fulls from over the side to rinse all the crud into the "bilge" and out the drain hole it goes. All this is best done at a speed just before plane. If it rough on the outside, I will do this back in the bay. I think that with the narrow beam, and low profile, it would have been difficult for them to design the sole above the waterline. Heck some of those boats with heavy outboards and bait tanks only have but 4 or 5 inches of freeboard at the lowest point in the transom.
jameso posted 04-24-2002 01:00 PM ET (US)
My 15 is certainly not self bailing nor were the 13's.
JimU posted 04-24-2002 05:08 PM ET (US)
Seabrook, what is a ping pong ball stopper. Where can you get one/ JIM
alvispollard posted 04-24-2002 05:54 PM ET (US)
My father's 1997 13' is self-bailing and I love it. Not sure about others. Where do you get a ping pong ball plug?
Tsuriki BW posted 04-24-2002 06:04 PM ET (US)
JimU
http://www.rabud.com/seascupps.htm
This is the site. I am seriously thinking of getting them. The 75hp Merc is heavy enough to allow a few inches of water in the stern without the scupper plugs in. I think the "ping-pong attachments will stop this. The "flaps" don't do it.
Tsuriki
vdbgroup posted 04-24-2002 11:43 PM ET (US)
The concept of a self-bailing boat is quite simple - if the deck of the boat is above the waterline the boat is self-bailing. How the water gets out is another matter.
JFM posted 04-25-2002 09:32 AM ET (US)
Both my old 13's are, and were self bailing.
jameso, simply pull the plug when on plane and the water rushes right out.
Regards, Jay
Jerry Townsend posted 04-25-2002 09:53 AM ET (US)
Jay - as a matter of fact, you do not have to be on plane - just forward motion. However, the faster the speed, the lower the pressure immediately under the boat and the faster the water will exit the boat. ---- Jerry/Idaho
Salmon Tub posted 04-25-2002 10:49 AM ET (US)
Not to burst your bubble JFM, but that is not what it means to be self bailing. Any boat will have water drain out of it when pulling the plug underway. Self bailing means that if you take water on over the side or the transom, or where ever, it will drain down the deck and out the boat. In other words, if you are drifting, and a wave breaks over the side, it just drains right out, you do not have to run or turn on the bilge pump or anything. What happens to your 13' if you pull the plug while at rest, if no water starts to come in, then it is self bailing, and you do not even need to use the plug.
JFM posted 04-25-2002 11:06 AM ET (US)
S/tub, I never have used the plug so far. It will be interesting to see if I have to when I'm finished installing my 2000 Yammi 40-4 stroke on the CMC adjustable jackplate. Regards, Jay
Salmon Tub posted 04-25-2002 11:30 AM ET (US)
That is interesting then. What year are yours? I seem to recall that the newer 13's may be dauntless, am not sure, are self bailing, and have a buddy with a 13' old style hull that he uses as a personal wadeing pool - goes out into lake, pulls plug, fills boat with a few inches of water and sits in the water as it warms up, sipping on a beer. He says it only fills a few inches, and fills level - same depth fore and aft.
JFM posted 04-25-2002 12:03 PM ET (US)
S/T 1969+1972
Regards, Jay

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Author	Topic: Why are Montauks not self bailing?
alvispollard	posted 04-23-2002 10:58 PM ET (US) I am a satisfied Montauk owner of 10 years. Just ordered another Rule 1100 gph bilge pump. Why are the Montauk not self bailing? Smaller whalers and of course larger whalers are. Are the new Montauk's self bailing? Just wondering.
Dick	posted 04-23-2002 11:34 PM ET (US) No the Montauk is not self bailing untill you get it on plane, but at that point what little water that is in the boat is gone. That is providing that the bilge plug has been left out.
hughmcmillan	posted 04-24-2002 09:56 AM ET (US) It isn't self bailing simply because the sole is below the waterline.
Wreckdiver	posted 04-24-2002 10:08 AM ET (US) The new Montauk has a bilg pump in the sump, just like the older one. Bob
Tsuriki BW	posted 04-24-2002 10:15 AM ET (US) By the "sole" do you mean the deck flooring? How high are the gunnels on the Montauk? Are Montauks the only "non self bailing" Whaler. Any reason for this "design"? Hmmmm Interesting. Tsuriki
Tom W Clark	posted 04-24-2002 11:46 AM ET (US) The cockpit sole is the "floor" of the boat. The Montauk is not the only non self-bailing Whaler. Or looking at it another way, the Montauk is serf bailing just like all the rest of the Whalers. It depends on your definition of self bailing. Any Whaler will leave some water above the cockpit sole if there is enough weight in the boat or a big enough motor on the transom just as any Whaler will drain the water out if you leave the plug out regardless if there is water above or below the cockpit sole. The Montauk is in no way unique in this regard.
Seabrook	posted 04-24-2002 12:44 PM ET (US) Use a ping-pong ball type stopper instead of a plug. I have one in my Montauk. You never have to worry about using the plug, and evertime you plane the boat, all the water runs out. Keep stopper clean and it does not leak.
Salmon Tub	posted 04-24-2002 12:48 PM ET (US) By self-bailing, I assume you are comparing it to "self-bailing" boats that have a plug and do not self bail the water out of the bilge, but rather have the sole above the water line, and have scuppers. Boats with that design can have the deck washed with a few buckets from over the side, and the water drains out the boat. Most cuddy cabins are like this. If water drains into the engine well (bilge), then you either remove it by pulling the plug, or via a pump. I have never removed the plug in my Montauk to see how deep it will fill before it levels off, but a buddy of mine did that with an older 16' hull and it took on about 5" of water inside until it stopped filling. Once under way, the water drains out the drain plug hole. Whenever we get salmon, I always pull the plug just as I get ready to go, and while I plow the boat just below plane, my partner will grab the mop, dip into the ocean, and scrub loose all the blood and scales. Then, a few bucket fulls from over the side to rinse all the crud into the "bilge" and out the drain hole it goes. All this is best done at a speed just before plane. If it rough on the outside, I will do this back in the bay. I think that with the narrow beam, and low profile, it would have been difficult for them to design the sole above the waterline. Heck some of those boats with heavy outboards and bait tanks only have but 4 or 5 inches of freeboard at the lowest point in the transom.
jameso	posted 04-24-2002 01:00 PM ET (US) My 15 is certainly not self bailing nor were the 13's.
JimU	posted 04-24-2002 05:08 PM ET (US) Seabrook, what is a ping pong ball stopper. Where can you get one/ JIM
alvispollard	posted 04-24-2002 05:54 PM ET (US) My father's 1997 13' is self-bailing and I love it. Not sure about others. Where do you get a ping pong ball plug?
Tsuriki BW	posted 04-24-2002 06:04 PM ET (US) JimU http://www.rabud.com/seascupps.htm This is the site. I am seriously thinking of getting them. The 75hp Merc is heavy enough to allow a few inches of water in the stern without the scupper plugs in. I think the "ping-pong attachments will stop this. The "flaps" don't do it. Tsuriki
vdbgroup	posted 04-24-2002 11:43 PM ET (US) The concept of a self-bailing boat is quite simple - if the deck of the boat is above the waterline the boat is self-bailing. How the water gets out is another matter.
JFM	posted 04-25-2002 09:32 AM ET (US) Both my old 13's are, and were self bailing. jameso, simply pull the plug when on plane and the water rushes right out. Regards, Jay
Jerry Townsend	posted 04-25-2002 09:53 AM ET (US) Jay - as a matter of fact, you do not have to be on plane - just forward motion. However, the faster the speed, the lower the pressure immediately under the boat and the faster the water will exit the boat. ---- Jerry/Idaho
Salmon Tub	posted 04-25-2002 10:49 AM ET (US) Not to burst your bubble JFM, but that is not what it means to be self bailing. Any boat will have water drain out of it when pulling the plug underway. Self bailing means that if you take water on over the side or the transom, or where ever, it will drain down the deck and out the boat. In other words, if you are drifting, and a wave breaks over the side, it just drains right out, you do not have to run or turn on the bilge pump or anything. What happens to your 13' if you pull the plug while at rest, if no water starts to come in, then it is self bailing, and you do not even need to use the plug.
JFM	posted 04-25-2002 11:06 AM ET (US) S/tub, I never have used the plug so far. It will be interesting to see if I have to when I'm finished installing my 2000 Yammi 40-4 stroke on the CMC adjustable jackplate. Regards, Jay
Salmon Tub	posted 04-25-2002 11:30 AM ET (US) That is interesting then. What year are yours? I seem to recall that the newer 13's may be dauntless, am not sure, are self bailing, and have a buddy with a 13' old style hull that he uses as a personal wadeing pool - goes out into lake, pulls plug, fills boat with a few inches of water and sits in the water as it warms up, sipping on a beer. He says it only fills a few inches, and fills level - same depth fore and aft.
JFM	posted 04-25-2002 12:03 PM ET (US) S/T 1969+1972 Regards, Jay