posted 06-10-2002 12:14 PM ET (US)        

Is there a way to reconfigure to a "taller" helm where I can raise the seating and get a slightly (15 inches) higher perspective when I'm driving. I don't necessarily mean to go to a center console but rather to just raise everything up a tad.

I have found a source of mahogany planks that I could use for this project and I hope that others have tried this and found the best design for me to copy.

posted 06-10-2002 01:56 PM ET (US)            

continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002185.html

posted 06-11-2002 12:21 AM ET (US)            

If you have one of the older boats where the plank for the helm thwart seat is set right on the molded lip of the cockpit (like my 1976 boat), I would suggest trying a move to place the plank across the tops of the side risers, raising it about 3 inches.

Having tried this myself, I can tell you that you will find the plank of the original seat to be a little short. It will fit across the cockpit between the risers, but it won't overlap much. You would have to secure it on the underside in some way to keep it in place.

Another approach would be to remove the original mahogany thwart plank and save it for possible re-assembly later to "OEM" conditions. Then fabricate your own plank from a less expensive wood source. You could perhaps laminate some thinner boards with epoxy--I am not much of a carpenter or woodsmith so these suggestions must be verified with someone who is. The goal being to make a new thwart plank that you can use to mount some more stuff, drill some holes, etc., without ruining the original mahogany.

Once you have the elevated thwart plank in place, you could mount it by just cutting a slight notch in the risers, then using three wood screws at each side to secure it into the riser.

On this new thwart plank you could experiment with mounting some improved seats, perhaps a pair of swiveling padded seats with back rests.

To help the weight distribution, you could also add one or two risers under the seats going from the thwart to the cockpit floor.

The higher seat may also allow more clearance under it for moving the gas tank or battery out of the stern--something that might be good if your boat is stern heavy with engine weight.

As for the console, I guess you would have to see if it was too low for the new seat height or not. Making a new console would be more carpentry than I can describe in text without pictures.

posted 06-11-2002 12:51 AM ET (US)            

I am a carpenter. If you are going to build a new thwart seat, buying a single piece of wood is going to be the easiest. If you really want to make a project of it and drive up the expense then try laminating smaller pieces of wood together. But seriously, just buy a plank the size you want and be done with it.

Now you could buy a nice piece of mahogany of some other similar tropical hardwood or you could take the “bigshot approach” and run down to the lumberyard and buy a 2 x 12 and slap it on there with some drywall screws.

Either way you've raised the thwart seat to a more comfortable level but it is still just a plank. If you've got a 15 then you've graduated from the 13’ "school-of-sore-butts" and deserve something a little nicer.

Get yourself some upholstered pedestal seats. They're dozens of different types to choose from so you should be able to find whatever suits your tastes.

This weekend I was going through family photo albums and stumbled across what may be the only photograph I have of my 1979 Striper 15. I was reminded of how much I really like that boat. As much as I love the look of wood this boat had very little.

I bought it new and I bought it precisely because I was tired on pounding my butt in the 13’ Sport on those plank seats. The Striper was (and still is) a very practical arrangement regardless of what you are using it for.

The seats are up a little higher than a Sport. The console is where you want it. It's easier to get around because you're not climbing over those damn thwart seats. The pedestal seats swivel around for whatever you want them to do for you.

And it's a simple and relatively inexpensive way to equip this boat. There's no reason why a Sport 15 owner could not adopt this same seating arrangement and simply replace the rear thwart seat with a pair of pedestal seats.

posted 06-11-2002 08:17 AM ET (US)            

I had the exact same problem you did, I had a pristine 1986 15' which I did not want to sell but the years finally caught up with me and I just couldn't take the pounding and low seating, solution = sold it and bought a
Montauk, never regretted my decision.

posted 06-11-2002 09:56 AM ET (US)            

I have thought about the pedestal seat approach, but in my case I have a very early boat. The floor of the cockpit only has the small center stripe of wood. To overcome this I though of making a piece of wood to lay across the cockpit floor in the area where I wanted to mount the pedestal bases.

The wood insert would have a number of grooves or channels cut in the face that laid against the floor, running in a fore and aft direction, so that water could channel under it. I am thinking the wood would be completely sealed in an epoxy coating/finish.

Then I would secure the new wood insert to the deck by screwing it to the embedded wood in the center region. The wood insert would run the full width of the cockpit and be fitted flush against the sides. This tight fit would prevent and side-to-side wiggle of the wood; the screws into the embedded wood would prevent any fore-and-aft movement. With this new, external wood available to mounting things, I could install a pedestal seat base and try that approach.

I was also thinking that the above-deck wood insert could be nicely varnished so it added some "yachty" look to the boat. Or, more utilitarian, you could just paint it to match the gelcoat.

posted 06-11-2002 10:44 AM ET (US)            

I am speculating here, but I don't think your plan will prove entirely satisfactory.

While a piece of wood (and it would have to be something the size of the thwart seat) installed this way would not slide around as you say it might not be rigid enough to prevent the upward forces of a pedestal rocking. It is this withdrawal strength that is critical to a pedestal installation.

Even if the plank had drainage grooves in the bottom of it there will still be an annoying accumulation of debris and small amounts off water along the forward edge of the thing. It will also be a toe stubber.

While a nice piece of varnished mahogany looks nice in general I think it would look rather queer laying on the bottom of the boat. I think I would just mount seats directly to the thwart seat before I put a piece of wood on the floor.

I think the solution to the pedestal mount dilemma on these early 15’s might be to adopt some of the techniques that Boston Whaler used on the early Outrages when pedestal seats were used.

The idea of distributing the load of a pedestal mount over a wide area with the piece of wood is sound. But I would consider using two pieces of aluminum plate instead. This is what Whaler did in the 1970’s on the Outrage 21 and 19 when pedestals were installed.

On the 15’ without plywood everywhere there is a strip of plywood down the middle. It is 11 7/8” wide. (Why is is 11 7/8” instead of 12”? Because when you take a 4x8 sheet of plywood and rip it into four equal strips you will loose about an 1/8” to the saw blade’s kerf on each cut.) An aluminum base plate for the pedestal will therefore have solid backing for screws on the inboard side.

The question then is how to secure the outboard side. I think this is the perfect application for the epoxy “hockey puck” idea. This would also satisfy jimh’s near insatiable thirst for the use of West System Epoxies.

Install two, three, maybe even four hockey pucks under the edge of this aluminum backer and tap machine screws into it. This will provide a very secure attachment to the skin of the hull and this attachment will be distributed over a good sized area.

posted 06-12-2002 01:39 AM ET (US)            

The 1/2" plywood is applied to the skin of the hull during lay up. It is set in resin and then covered with more chopped glass and resin thus totally encapsulating it. It is not, however, molded into the middle of the skin. It mostly lies beneath the fiberglass.

If you really want to maximize the grip of a fastener into this plywood then you want to use a sheet metal screw, not a wood screw. Just to be clear:

A sheet metal screw has a fully threaded shank. This shank is not tapered.

A wood screw is tapered and usually has an unthreaded portion of the shank just beneath the head.

To really, really maximize the strength, the fastener should go all the way through the plywood so the full diameter of the screw engages all the plywood. Of course you don’t want to go any further into the foam than necessary but a little way won't hurt anything. On the floor of a 15 I would estimate the total thickness of the plywood and fiberglass to be 5/8”-3/4”.

posted 06-12-2002 09:14 PM ET (US)         

What I plan to do is to make new risers that are about three-and-a-half inches wide. The bottom will be stepped to catch both levels (please help me with the right terms here). They will be five inches high, one inch higher than the originals. I plan on mounting thicker thwart seats in one-inch slots on the new risers (screwed down firmly, of course). The new thwarts will be 5/4 inches thick. Then the plan is to get seats like the swivel seats, only with no swivel. I will use three seats, side by side, on both thwart seats. This way each thwart will be like a bench. The boat will seat six comfortably. Just behind the front thwart will be a console that does all the way across the boat, like the console in a 13' Sourpuss. Like the Sourpuss, this console will not be supported from below, allowing a second large fuel tank to be put, hidden away, under the combination thwart seat/console. The steering wheel will either be in the center or will be just to the right of center, and will be mounted in such a way that someone 6' tall can stand up and can reach the top of it (I'm still working on that idea--is there such a thing as a telescoping steering wheel?). The right side of the console will be for my laptop and other electronics (out of the wind, behind the seat backs), and the left side of the console will serve as a step to get over the seat back that will be in front of it.

That is how I have configured my 13' Sourpuss and it works great.

posted 06-14-2002 11:10 AM ET (US)            

Thanks in advance.

posted 06-17-2002 08:52 AM ET (US)            

Your e-mail address doesn't work. Tried twice. Mine is dwamse@milwaukee.gov. Maybe I can send stuff as a reply to an e-mail from you.