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Scouting1 posted 06-24-2002 07:28 AM ET (US)
Hi,
I'm in the boating market and am having heck of a time finding something I like. What I am looking for is something about 16' that can handle shallow water as well as rough water. When I say rough I mean chop around 2 feet. I live close to lake Winnebago (spelling) which is huge and shallow so I guess it can get pretty rough. I'm not looking at doing any fishing or skiing. Just something more to play in and drive around.
So here is the question. Why is a whaler so cost so much. I looked at the 16ft Ventura and flipped when I saw the price of $21000 or so. I can get a 18 ft bow rider for that with more tows and options etc.... I'm not even close to knocking whaler but what are there strengths? I don't even think they come with a radio? I really don't want a center councle so that is why I like the Ventura. Thanks for your help.

Clark Roberts posted 06-24-2002 08:06 AM ET (US)
Scout, personally I don't think you are in the market for Whaler if you want a bowrider! The price of a Whaler is not out of line with other well-made, high quality boats and if you've looked around at all you would have discovered this... Your comment about "not knocking Whalers"... hummmmm???? You should get lots of info from this forum...Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
skred posted 06-24-2002 08:36 AM ET (US)
Scouting 1,
I've been fishing Winnebago for about 18 years, and I've used 13 and 17 foot Whalers. Wisconsinites know Winnebago is really prone to whipping up 2-4 foot chop in a breeze because it's so shallow. I have to say the classic 13 Whaler is "wet" on this lake. The 17 of course, was no problem. As other responders have indicated. Whaler is produced with the highest quality materials and fittings. It's a lifetime boat. Witness the number of operational '60's boats discussed on this site.
I looked at the new Sport 13, and it's wider, drier and heavier than the classic. Boat, motor and trailer (40 hp Merc) runs about $10,000. I don't think you'd be sorry, unless you're trying to haul more than 1 or 2 passengers.
Good Luck
Dennis
mbking1 posted 06-24-2002 08:51 AM ET (US)
You get what you pay for. The most frugal approach is to buy a used hull and engine. Wear the engine out and replace it when needed. Take a close look at the depreciation rate on Whalers vs anything else out there and you will determine that WHALERS ARE IN FACT LESS EXPENSIVE TO OWN OVER THE LONG RUN. Simple math. Mark
Hendrickson posted 06-24-2002 09:54 AM ET (US)
Scouting1, "what is the Wahler's strenght?" I have a 60 foot dock that faces east toward several miles of open water on Rainy lake. My Aquasport is as pretty as a boat can get, yet it has sunk at the dock twice in two years. This year I kept the powerhead from going under by jumping in the boat with a Honda 3 and a half horse pump. On my 15 and 20 foot Whalers I just pull the plugs and let them drain. Even my Mako will swamp, but it does keep the powerhead above water. The floors on the Whalers don't even go under water!
Scouting1 posted 06-24-2002 12:26 PM ET (US)
Hi thanks for the information. To first respond to Clark in a way I don't know what I want. I made the reference to bow riders since that is what I was looking at and decided that it may not be the way to go. The reference to not knocking whalers was due to I know how people can easily get angry and the entire thing turns sour.
I haven't seen a whaler in person only on the web and see it as a plane jane boat. Again no fancy frills like a bow rider which I can live with. I searched and saw the price and almost fell out of the chair. I've been viewing the board and learning so please continue to help me.
Skred - Would 16 ft Ventura be fine for the 2-4 ft waves? What about going in shallow water? I like to explorer and if I see a channel would probably venture down it to see where it leads. I see lot's of wildlife that way. Thanks again for the help.
Drisney posted 06-24-2002 01:53 PM ET (US)
Before you rule out a center console, go for a ride on one. You might change your mind about what you want.....especially for exploring standing up is very good for seeing where you are going and if the water is deep or shallow...
Dave
Hendrickson posted 06-24-2002 02:52 PM ET (US)
Only boat I really want to sell is my Sea Ray bow rider. Much prefer operating a center console (you can tell who wears the pants in a family, even if they are all wet!).
homey posted 06-24-2002 03:17 PM ET (US)
Scout, I still fall out of my chair when I see the prices on Whalers...Its ridiculous...They are popular, well known and thats why you can usually pick up a used one at a fair price...
I suggest you also check out Edgewater boats www.ewboats.com Bob Dougherty the founder of the company was with Boston Whaler for many years. The boats are comparable, unsinkable, and won't sink your savings account.
A 16' is too small after a year you'll wish got the 18' or 20'...Been there...Good Luck!
TightPenny posted 06-24-2002 05:03 PM ET (US)
What is the Whaler's strength.
Being able to run 15 nautical miles out into the Atlantic in a 16'8" Montauk is the Whalers strength. Try that in an 18' bow rider.
Being in a boat that will not sink is worth a whole lot of money in my book.
JustFish posted 06-24-2002 05:19 PM ET (US)
Homey - Dougherty left the company, I believe, in '97. From what I have heard - more than once source since I live 30 miles from the factory - and seen, the quality has gone downhill ever since his departure.
The Whaler Dauntless is a good all around boat. I have a 16'. With trailer, 90Hp 4stroke, depthfinder, radio, 2x batteries, trailer, and the little frills (jackets, etc.) it was $25 and change.
In a squall - you'd be happy to pay twice that.....
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-24-2002 06:23 PM ET (US)
The ventura is a great all around product and even a 16' should handle 2'to 5' waves.
I have owned a 1998 18' ventura, It was a great boat except for the crap they put on the transom, OPTIMAX that is.
I now own a 2001 21' VENTURA with a yamaha, again it's a great all around product both to fish and cruise and for family fun!
However my next one's gonna be a 31' contender!
JFM posted 06-24-2002 08:26 PM ET (US)
You get what you pay for!
Buy one used it will be the best investment you'll ever make in any brand of boat. Regards, Jay
lhg posted 06-24-2002 08:51 PM ET (US)
Trafficlawyer must be related to Whalernut.
B Bear posted 06-24-2002 08:52 PM ET (US)
You might look for a used 17 Dauntless, it is the forerunner of the Ventura.
As for price - you will see that even the used Boston Whalers still command a good price, if you compare it to a bow rider of the same year and take into account the total dpreacation since new you will understand where the value really is.
The unique construction, quality of componets and its benefits are worth the money.
These may seem to be plane jane with out the glitz and graphics of other boats. This is what is in part why the retain their vlaue. Function in Form, this also allows the owner to personalize the boat to their individual needs. You will seldom see any two completely alike in equipment set up. A boston whaler hull sounds solid and feels solid. There are very few hulls that sound and feel the same way.
Take the time to look for the news where other boats have sunk and sadly people have died. These might have been avoided if they were able to stay with the boat and out of the water. There have been many lives saved by an unsinkable boston whaler. How much is that worth? The appearance of the extra money in its price is a non issue under those conditions (life or death).
Think about it.
Bear

timbo posted 06-24-2002 09:02 PM ET (US)
Whalers are worth what you pay for, they also hold their value and I know this as a 15 year old. I just bought an owesome 13' sport and I will probably own it for another twenty years than I would love to pass the tradition down. If you want to spend your 10 grand on a bow rider be my guest, but you will not know happiness on the water untill you buy a whaler. I have only owned my boat for 4 months and already I have done a full resoration with the help of dad and used the boat well over 50 times. If you can't manage the price of a new whaler, look around. My boat was 4 grand and was flawless. I wanted to modify it to look like a real classic so i went ahead and did the work. You can find a 15 or 17' sport or montauk with a sturdy engine for about 4 to 7 thousand used. Check the dealers for left overs and floor models. Again check the market for a used ventura. Not only are you getting a great boat but an owesome community of fellow boaters as well. Just look at hte enthusiasm and good nature of the site and you tell me if any other boat manufacturer or company shows the same famly like stature as boston whaler. I have grown up on the water and seen enough boats get pounced on the jeddis only to see a boston whaler come to pick them up.
Digs1622 posted 06-24-2002 10:24 PM ET (US)
I think B Bear says it all....you cant put a price on your life or anyone elses for that matter. Safety is a huge issue and if it wasn't for the good people on this forum, I would have never bought my first boat which, obviously, is a whaler. The most important thing to me, was safety, and Im damn glad I bought my whaler. The piece of mind alone, is worth more money than you can imagine.
By the way, if your not goin fishin, sking etc...I have found that toolin around in my 13'ss in 1'-2' chop is great fun...it gets a little wet out there but it is a ball to play around in:)
Digs
browning20ga posted 06-25-2002 12:00 AM ET (US)
RADIO ???
browning20ga posted 06-25-2002 12:00 AM ET (US)
RADIO ???
browning20ga posted 06-25-2002 12:13 AM ET (US)
Sorry about the double post...But seriously please read "What a trip it was" by Draftsmans wife here on the General Form, that's about the best advertisement around for why a Whaler "costs so much". It's a very appropriate post to answer your question.
Darrell
Chap posted 06-25-2002 09:34 AM ET (US)
Hello,
This was in a local paper in NJ.
17' BOSTON WHALER Dual console,
Dauntless '95, 115HP Yamaha, seats 6, exc.
cond. Trlr. $14,000. ph 201-695-4343
What was the ad BW had? Something like: At some point in your boating life good seamanship alone will not be enough.
Thanks
Chap
Whaler Proud posted 06-25-2002 10:41 AM ET (US)
My Whaler is coming up on 40 years old. So let's look at it this way:
$21,000.00 divided by 40= $525.00 per year
Divided by 12 = $43.75 per month.
Where will any other boat be after 40 years?
Just my .02
skred posted 06-25-2002 10:43 AM ET (US)
Scouting1,
The 16 is a top choice for Winnebago water.
I'm not sure of the draft, but, like most smaller Whalers, they don't draw very much at all. I'm hooked on the center console, and would love to have a stand-up type, but pedestals will do for now. The older, classic hulls have very shallow draft - With the motor tilted up, I think I draw less than 1 foot. I'll measure it.
As others have mentioned, you might save some $$ buying a used 15-17'. Owners of Whalers (at least 95% of 'em) keep their boats in prime shape. (I've seldom seen a shoddy older Mercedes....)
In summary, I've owned Bayliners, and "price boats" like Rinkers, etc. and after all of that, I'll never own anything but a Whaler. Long run, you're money ahead, and always afloat.
tomol posted 06-25-2002 12:00 PM ET (US)
Scouting 1
By way of example... I frequently take people to Catalina Island spearfishing in my Montauk -- a 30+ mile run from the harbor. Invariably, when new guests first see my boat, they get that nervous look that says, "that boat's WAY too small to go that far". Heck, some of them just come right out and say it.
I recount for them the old ad campaign about sawing one if half and, once I get them in the boat, I always make it a point to have my guests run it a substantial portion of the day, usually when it's roughest. Without exception, within 5 minutes of taking the helm, I hear the same refrain: "This is a great boat". They can't believe how well it handles the seas and how responsive it is.
Granted, prudence is a must, and there are days when it's best to stay ashore, but you will never get more enjoyment or piece of mind for your dollar than you will from a Whaler.
Nate

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Author	Topic: Why do they cost so much
Scouting1	posted 06-24-2002 07:28 AM ET (US) Hi, I'm in the boating market and am having heck of a time finding something I like. What I am looking for is something about 16' that can handle shallow water as well as rough water. When I say rough I mean chop around 2 feet. I live close to lake Winnebago (spelling) which is huge and shallow so I guess it can get pretty rough. I'm not looking at doing any fishing or skiing. Just something more to play in and drive around. So here is the question. Why is a whaler so cost so much. I looked at the 16ft Ventura and flipped when I saw the price of $21000 or so. I can get a 18 ft bow rider for that with more tows and options etc.... I'm not even close to knocking whaler but what are there strengths? I don't even think they come with a radio? I really don't want a center councle so that is why I like the Ventura. Thanks for your help.
Clark Roberts	posted 06-24-2002 08:06 AM ET (US) Scout, personally I don't think you are in the market for Whaler if you want a bowrider! The price of a Whaler is not out of line with other well-made, high quality boats and if you've looked around at all you would have discovered this... Your comment about "not knocking Whalers"... hummmmm???? You should get lots of info from this forum...Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
skred	posted 06-24-2002 08:36 AM ET (US) Scouting 1, I've been fishing Winnebago for about 18 years, and I've used 13 and 17 foot Whalers. Wisconsinites know Winnebago is really prone to whipping up 2-4 foot chop in a breeze because it's so shallow. I have to say the classic 13 Whaler is "wet" on this lake. The 17 of course, was no problem. As other responders have indicated. Whaler is produced with the highest quality materials and fittings. It's a lifetime boat. Witness the number of operational '60's boats discussed on this site. I looked at the new Sport 13, and it's wider, drier and heavier than the classic. Boat, motor and trailer (40 hp Merc) runs about $10,000. I don't think you'd be sorry, unless you're trying to haul more than 1 or 2 passengers. Good Luck Dennis
mbking1	posted 06-24-2002 08:51 AM ET (US) You get what you pay for. The most frugal approach is to buy a used hull and engine. Wear the engine out and replace it when needed. Take a close look at the depreciation rate on Whalers vs anything else out there and you will determine that WHALERS ARE IN FACT LESS EXPENSIVE TO OWN OVER THE LONG RUN. Simple math. Mark
Hendrickson	posted 06-24-2002 09:54 AM ET (US) Scouting1, "what is the Wahler's strenght?" I have a 60 foot dock that faces east toward several miles of open water on Rainy lake. My Aquasport is as pretty as a boat can get, yet it has sunk at the dock twice in two years. This year I kept the powerhead from going under by jumping in the boat with a Honda 3 and a half horse pump. On my 15 and 20 foot Whalers I just pull the plugs and let them drain. Even my Mako will swamp, but it does keep the powerhead above water. The floors on the Whalers don't even go under water!
Scouting1	posted 06-24-2002 12:26 PM ET (US) Hi thanks for the information. To first respond to Clark in a way I don't know what I want. I made the reference to bow riders since that is what I was looking at and decided that it may not be the way to go. The reference to not knocking whalers was due to I know how people can easily get angry and the entire thing turns sour. I haven't seen a whaler in person only on the web and see it as a plane jane boat. Again no fancy frills like a bow rider which I can live with. I searched and saw the price and almost fell out of the chair. I've been viewing the board and learning so please continue to help me. Skred - Would 16 ft Ventura be fine for the 2-4 ft waves? What about going in shallow water? I like to explorer and if I see a channel would probably venture down it to see where it leads. I see lot's of wildlife that way. Thanks again for the help.
Drisney	posted 06-24-2002 01:53 PM ET (US) Before you rule out a center console, go for a ride on one. You might change your mind about what you want.....especially for exploring standing up is very good for seeing where you are going and if the water is deep or shallow... Dave
Hendrickson	posted 06-24-2002 02:52 PM ET (US) Only boat I really want to sell is my Sea Ray bow rider. Much prefer operating a center console (you can tell who wears the pants in a family, even if they are all wet!).
homey	posted 06-24-2002 03:17 PM ET (US) Scout, I still fall out of my chair when I see the prices on Whalers...Its ridiculous...They are popular, well known and thats why you can usually pick up a used one at a fair price... I suggest you also check out Edgewater boats www.ewboats.com Bob Dougherty the founder of the company was with Boston Whaler for many years. The boats are comparable, unsinkable, and won't sink your savings account. A 16' is too small after a year you'll wish got the 18' or 20'...Been there...Good Luck!
TightPenny	posted 06-24-2002 05:03 PM ET (US) What is the Whaler's strength. Being able to run 15 nautical miles out into the Atlantic in a 16'8" Montauk is the Whalers strength. Try that in an 18' bow rider. Being in a boat that will not sink is worth a whole lot of money in my book.
JustFish	posted 06-24-2002 05:19 PM ET (US) Homey - Dougherty left the company, I believe, in '97. From what I have heard - more than once source since I live 30 miles from the factory - and seen, the quality has gone downhill ever since his departure. The Whaler Dauntless is a good all around boat. I have a 16'. With trailer, 90Hp 4stroke, depthfinder, radio, 2x batteries, trailer, and the little frills (jackets, etc.) it was $25 and change. In a squall - you'd be happy to pay twice that.....
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 06-24-2002 06:23 PM ET (US) The ventura is a great all around product and even a 16' should handle 2'to 5' waves. I have owned a 1998 18' ventura, It was a great boat except for the crap they put on the transom, OPTIMAX that is. I now own a 2001 21' VENTURA with a yamaha, again it's a great all around product both to fish and cruise and for family fun! However my next one's gonna be a 31' contender!
JFM	posted 06-24-2002 08:26 PM ET (US) You get what you pay for! Buy one used it will be the best investment you'll ever make in any brand of boat. Regards, Jay
lhg	posted 06-24-2002 08:51 PM ET (US) Trafficlawyer must be related to Whalernut.
B Bear	posted 06-24-2002 08:52 PM ET (US) You might look for a used 17 Dauntless, it is the forerunner of the Ventura. As for price - you will see that even the used Boston Whalers still command a good price, if you compare it to a bow rider of the same year and take into account the total dpreacation since new you will understand where the value really is. The unique construction, quality of componets and its benefits are worth the money. These may seem to be plane jane with out the glitz and graphics of other boats. This is what is in part why the retain their vlaue. Function in Form, this also allows the owner to personalize the boat to their individual needs. You will seldom see any two completely alike in equipment set up. A boston whaler hull sounds solid and feels solid. There are very few hulls that sound and feel the same way. Take the time to look for the news where other boats have sunk and sadly people have died. These might have been avoided if they were able to stay with the boat and out of the water. There have been many lives saved by an unsinkable boston whaler. How much is that worth? The appearance of the extra money in its price is a non issue under those conditions (life or death). Think about it. Bear
timbo	posted 06-24-2002 09:02 PM ET (US) Whalers are worth what you pay for, they also hold their value and I know this as a 15 year old. I just bought an owesome 13' sport and I will probably own it for another twenty years than I would love to pass the tradition down. If you want to spend your 10 grand on a bow rider be my guest, but you will not know happiness on the water untill you buy a whaler. I have only owned my boat for 4 months and already I have done a full resoration with the help of dad and used the boat well over 50 times. If you can't manage the price of a new whaler, look around. My boat was 4 grand and was flawless. I wanted to modify it to look like a real classic so i went ahead and did the work. You can find a 15 or 17' sport or montauk with a sturdy engine for about 4 to 7 thousand used. Check the dealers for left overs and floor models. Again check the market for a used ventura. Not only are you getting a great boat but an owesome community of fellow boaters as well. Just look at hte enthusiasm and good nature of the site and you tell me if any other boat manufacturer or company shows the same famly like stature as boston whaler. I have grown up on the water and seen enough boats get pounced on the jeddis only to see a boston whaler come to pick them up.
Digs1622	posted 06-24-2002 10:24 PM ET (US) I think B Bear says it all....you cant put a price on your life or anyone elses for that matter. Safety is a huge issue and if it wasn't for the good people on this forum, I would have never bought my first boat which, obviously, is a whaler. The most important thing to me, was safety, and Im damn glad I bought my whaler. The piece of mind alone, is worth more money than you can imagine. By the way, if your not goin fishin, sking etc...I have found that toolin around in my 13'ss in 1'-2' chop is great fun...it gets a little wet out there but it is a ball to play around in:) Digs
browning20ga	posted 06-25-2002 12:00 AM ET (US) RADIO ???
browning20ga	posted 06-25-2002 12:00 AM ET (US) RADIO ???
browning20ga	posted 06-25-2002 12:13 AM ET (US) Sorry about the double post...But seriously please read "What a trip it was" by Draftsmans wife here on the General Form, that's about the best advertisement around for why a Whaler "costs so much". It's a very appropriate post to answer your question. Darrell
Chap	posted 06-25-2002 09:34 AM ET (US) Hello, This was in a local paper in NJ. 17' BOSTON WHALER Dual console, Dauntless '95, 115HP Yamaha, seats 6, exc. cond. Trlr. $14,000. ph 201-695-4343 What was the ad BW had? Something like: At some point in your boating life good seamanship alone will not be enough. Thanks Chap
Whaler Proud	posted 06-25-2002 10:41 AM ET (US) My Whaler is coming up on 40 years old. So let's look at it this way: $21,000.00 divided by 40= $525.00 per year Divided by 12 = $43.75 per month. Where will any other boat be after 40 years? Just my .02
skred	posted 06-25-2002 10:43 AM ET (US) Scouting1, The 16 is a top choice for Winnebago water. I'm not sure of the draft, but, like most smaller Whalers, they don't draw very much at all. I'm hooked on the center console, and would love to have a stand-up type, but pedestals will do for now. The older, classic hulls have very shallow draft - With the motor tilted up, I think I draw less than 1 foot. I'll measure it. As others have mentioned, you might save some $$ buying a used 15-17'. Owners of Whalers (at least 95% of 'em) keep their boats in prime shape. (I've seldom seen a shoddy older Mercedes....) In summary, I've owned Bayliners, and "price boats" like Rinkers, etc. and after all of that, I'll never own anything but a Whaler. Long run, you're money ahead, and always afloat.
tomol	posted 06-25-2002 12:00 PM ET (US) Scouting 1 By way of example... I frequently take people to Catalina Island spearfishing in my Montauk -- a 30+ mile run from the harbor. Invariably, when new guests first see my boat, they get that nervous look that says, "that boat's WAY too small to go that far". Heck, some of them just come right out and say it. I recount for them the old ad campaign about sawing one if half and, once I get them in the boat, I always make it a point to have my guests run it a substantial portion of the day, usually when it's roughest. Without exception, within 5 minutes of taking the helm, I hear the same refrain: "This is a great boat". They can't believe how well it handles the seas and how responsive it is. Granted, prudence is a must, and there are days when it's best to stay ashore, but you will never get more enjoyment or piece of mind for your dollar than you will from a Whaler. Nate