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Author Topic:   Jellyfish Stings

Ferdinando posted 08-05-2002 08:20 AM ET (US)
I camped out this weekend just off the coast of Puerto Rico in an area calle Salinas, It's beautiful and perfect for boat camping, plus it's a Whalers paradise. At one point we had about 8 Whalers all together. While
shooting the breeze about our boats in a small cove a 10 yr old boy was stung by a jelly fish on his left arm. The screams were
awful. I had a bottle of sting-aid and I gave it to the parents, It did not seem to help much. Any hints on what can ease the
burning sensation?????????/? Thks, Fred
whalerron posted 08-05-2002 08:33 AM ET (US)
In the south end of the Chesapeake Bay, sea nettles are so thick, you could almost walk across the Bay on them. This is a very common occurence here. Their tentacles get wrapped around the anchor line and anything else that hangs in the water. So, we get stung alot. Two common solutions for nettle stings here are meat tenderizer or ammonia dabbed on the sting.
andiamo posted 08-05-2002 09:24 AM ET (US)
My son was stung by a jelly fish a few years ago in Palm Beach County Fl. and some one on the beach called the paramedics. The professionals used liquid amonia and said that if you don't have it use Viniger. Really soak the are for as long as it takes. I would note that "After Bite" the insect sting treatment smells to be pure ammonia.
In a case of history repeating itself, as a kid I body surfed through what was presumed to be a man-of-war and a local doctor gave me a shot of adrenalin ( I assume to ward of shock).
As I understand it the "epi-pens" that anaphalactics carry is pure adrenilin and that administering it in error does no harm but failing to give it can be tragic. Does anyone out there who has medical training thing we should think about carrying amonia and epi pens as part of our first aide kit.
reelescape1 posted 08-05-2002 09:45 AM ET (US)
Vinegar......first-aid books will tell you in an emergency use human urine. I took an old water bottle (plastic) and filled it with vinegar.
kgregg posted 08-05-2002 10:03 AM ET (US)
I've had great sucess using urine on jelly fish stings.
kingfish posted 08-05-2002 10:24 AM ET (US)
I doubt that it is the same thing, but I'll pass this along anyway, just in case it might help-
I got stung in the forearm a couple of years ago by a really po'd stingray - the only thing the Ft Myers hospital could do (yeah, it was so bad it sent me to the hospital) was have me immerse my arm in the hottest water I could stand. It made the pain almost bearable until the water cooled and I had to expose my arm to the air again while preparing another basin of hot water. They said the venom from the stingray was a protein and as such I just had to wait for my body to process it, but the pain usually subsided in about 45 minutes. Took over four hours for mine to become bearable, and the next day my arm was black and blue, yellow and purple from my fingers to my shoulder.
Anyway, immersion in hot water might be worth a try-
kingfish
T Party posted 08-05-2002 10:26 AM ET (US)
I purchased an "After Bite" pen and read the active ingredient when I got home: ammonia.
My son was stung earier this summer in the Chesapeake Bay, and my sister-in-law had a different brand of sting pen that used topical diphenhydramine (IIRC) that worked instantly and better than the vinegar we tried on part of the sting.
WebMD recommends vinegar: http://my.webmd.com/encyclopedia/article/4117.967
ron3637 posted 08-05-2002 11:53 AM ET (US)
I was also stung by a ray and the hot water, as hot as you can stand, treatment was very effective.
andygere posted 08-05-2002 12:17 PM ET (US)
I was stung by a man-o-war in Jamaica many years ago. When I finally reached the hospital, (and the hospital located the doctor) I was given a large shot of Benydril right in the behind. I imagine a tablet or two of the same thing would help for less serious stings.
David Jenkins posted 08-05-2002 01:08 PM ET (US)
I have had success rubbing sand on jelly fish stings. As soon as you are stung, grab some sand and start rubbing.
Bigshot posted 08-05-2002 01:17 PM ET (US)
I got hit by a chopped up man-o-war and MSG(meat tenderizer) works good. Amonia or vinegar is Ok too. For Sea Urchins the locals use urine. My sisters friends dad sat on one in Jamaica and she said she could not pee on his butt because she was laughing so hard. In Austrailia they have Box jellyfish where if you do not get an antidote in under 20 minutes you are dead, scars last forever. They also have these invisible ones that will kill you in hours. They recommend you swim with a laycra suit to prevent this.
Tin Man posted 08-05-2002 01:20 PM ET (US)
We use a solution of rubbing alcohol and baking soda. Mix it into a paste, cover the affected area, let it dry and then scape it off with a spoon. Last weekend we had about a dozen calls for jellyfish stings and they have continued through the week. Previously we used meat tenderizer but found the baking soda and alcohol to be the most effective on man of war stings. Dry hot sand also seems to alleviate the stings if nothing else is available.
During my EMT training, I was told hot water will break down the toxins from catfish and stringrays quicker. Like in kingfish's post.
The thing we monitor are signs of difficulty in breathing and the onset of a severe allergic reaction.
As far as Epipens go, here in SC they are prescription items. By law I could not administer it to anyone unless it was prescribed to that person and under direct medical control's approval. Those at the paramedic level are able to administer epinephrine, but only after receiving direct medical control.
I would not reccomend carrying or administering epinephrine to anyone it was not prescribed. Individuals who have epi-pen prescriptions have been evaluated by a doctor and are prescribed dosages which are tailored to their age, weight, physical condition, etc. It is not a one size fits all.
hooter posted 08-05-2002 02:20 PM ET (US)
Anudder good reason to drink beer. Jez piss on it. Woiks like a damn CHARM.
Morocco posted 08-05-2002 03:29 PM ET (US)
Cnidaria use a nematocyst that shoots an injectable thread that is soaked in venom that pierces human skin. Venoms vary in toxicity, but there is an additive effect since a single exposure can result in thousands of nematocysts firing.
Almost all care is 'supportive' which in medicine means 'watchful waiting' and pain/symptom control. However, the following decontamination schemes can help minimize the amount of venom that reaches your skin.
1. Try not to thrash, scratch or scrape -- this will just fire more nematocysts.
2. Keep some latex gloves on your boat (great for painting, epoxy, etc...) then double glove and wash with SEA WATER or SALT water. DO NOT USE FRESH WATER -- it causes instant firing of the nematocysts. You can also use tweezers or a safety razor to 'shave' the area. Think of it like removing a bee sting with a credit card -- to avoid squeezing the venom sac of the bee stinger -- multiplied a couple of hundred times...
3. Use vinegar (keep in a spray bottle if you are in an infested area -- you know who you are...) and spray the area for 20 mins to inactivate the unfired nematocysts. One EXCEPTION:
4. SEA NETTLES -- don't use vinegar, use a slurry of baking soda. Vinegar, like fresh water, causes Sea Nettles to fire.

A word on EPI PENS. Very useful to have if you have lots of guests, but I don't think you should stock them just in case -- everyone who really needs them will carry thier own, and epinephrine is a dangerous drug. Use it only when a patient has signs of anaphalaxsis -- swelling of the lips, tongue and uvula (the thing that hangs down in the back of the throat) along with shortness of breath. Benadry is great to have along for all the other mild reactions -- you don't need a prescription and can buy it anywhere. I do keep a box of it, locked up, on my boat. (Keep away from children or just keep a handful say 4 or 5 on the boat at a time -- not enough for even a small kid to OD on.)
Oh, if you're whalerin' in Australia, watch out for Box Jellyfish -- severe cases actually need to get to a hospital for antivenin. It's the only Cnidarian that has an antidote.
Bigshot posted 08-05-2002 03:46 PM ET (US)
Here we have it kids!
No offense to anyone but "some" threads that are not "whaler related" can and do have major importance in this forum. I for one rarely get stung but if I do, I will remember these tips. I ALWAYS thought freshwater would kill the sting being they are salt water animals but now I know why sometimes you do not even know you got stung until you hit the shower....YOW! Tin Man, morocco, and all.....especially Hooter, great job!
rsgwynn1 posted 08-05-2002 06:48 PM ET (US)
Preparation H is standard for jellyfish stings. And I don't mean only if you sit on one.
James posted 08-05-2002 07:45 PM ET (US)
August is Jellyfish time around the Jersey Shore. Our local paper (The Asbury Park Press) printed the following advice for its readers in today's edition. I present it verbatim for your review.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU ARE STUNG:
1. Immediately flood the stung area with household vinegar (take it with you to the beach) to keep more stingers from firing. This does not relieve pain but prevents additional stings.
2. Pluck off any vinegar-soaked tentacles with a stick or other tool. Don't use your hands.
3. Never rub the area with sand or anything else.
4. For pain relief, apply ice packs. If pain becomes unbearable, go to an emergency room.
5. Popular folk remedies - such as applying meat tenderizer, baking soda, alcohol or human urine to the sting site - may do more harm than good. Some meat tenderizers can cause skin to peel. Alcohol and urine may cause more stingers to fire, making the injury worse. The effectiveness of commercial sprays also is questionable.
6. If stung in the eyes, pour copious amounts of room temperature tap water into your eyes for at least 15 minutes. If vision blurs, or the eyes continue to tear, hurt, swell or be sensitive to light see a doctor.
7. If you have shortness of breath, weakness, muscle cramps or heart palpitations, go to an emergency room immediately. Consider even the slightest breathing difficulty or altered level of consciousness to be a medical emergency.
The article references the following sources: "All Stings Considered" book by Dr. Craig Thomas and Susan Scott; advice from Steven Webster, senior marine biologist for the Monterey Bay Aquarium ihn Northern California. A website is also provided: http://people.cornellcollege.edu/w-marshall/GEO105/anatomy.htm.
James.
David Jenkins posted 08-05-2002 09:30 PM ET (US)
So fresh water makes the unfired stingers fire but you should nevertheless flush the eyes with fresh water? Why not use salt water?
Morocco posted 08-05-2002 10:59 PM ET (US)
Here is a link to a neat site that references "All Stings Considered." While the author Craig Thomas is a diver and doctor, his book does differ from the standard accepted treatments a little. Also note that the 'box jellyfish' section and the 'man of war' section seem to be the same with the nouns replaced. Odd, but not unusual when books get 'excerpted,' especially by 'general medical reporters.'
http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/alsting1.html
Regarding fresh water in the eyes: it is a standard medical remedy to flush with fresh water -- people can't stand the irritation of anything else, so in this case the authors probably mean to flush AFTER you've removed any nematocysts from the area around the eyes -- to wash away venom (your eyes will do that by themselves with copious tears, but water does help.)
Full strength vinegar is still the accepted 'deactivator' in everything Cindarian but sea nettle exposure (baking soda).
Preparation H is a mild anti-inflam. (like hydro cortisone, which it contains in some places) Tylenol, motrin or aspirin are all fine for pain, as is ice (don't give aspirin to children, give tylenol) and make the following call:
Is the patient 'sick' or 'not-sick.' If they are acting strange, passing out, having trouble breathing or drinking (you know what I mean)or seem to be getting worse with removal of the insult, put them in the 'sick' category and call for help. Use common sense and you'll be okay.
Morocco posted 08-05-2002 11:03 PM ET (US)
Oh, and here's proof that, in today's world, you just can't specialize enough.
http://medschool.umaryland.edu/departments/dermatology/Consort.html
And no, I do not subscribe.
Jay A posted 08-05-2002 11:34 PM ET (US)
Crush some asprin into a powder and mix it with water to create a paste then "dab" it on. This will localize the effected area and also works great on sunburns and poison ivy!
triblet posted 08-06-2002 12:16 AM ET (US)
To prevent jelly stings, wear a full wetsuit,
booties, gloves, hood, and mask. The only
thing stingable is a little around your
mouth, so don't kiss any jellies. Or better,
a drysuit, gloves, hood, and mask.
The heat is because the venom is a protein
and will break down and congeal under heat
just like an egg.
Fresh water makes the nematocysts fire.
After they've fired there's little risk of
getting stung. Wouldn't you rather deal with
a drunk with an AK-47 who'd just fired it
into the air than the same drunk with a
loaded AK? I flush my anchor line tub with
lots of fresh water, esp. in jelly season.
Vinegar does help with Sea Nettles. Every
year we get them big time in Monterey, mmm,
they are a bit overdue this year. I carry
a small (couple of ounces) bottle in the
RPS on my Montauk.

Chuck

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Author	Topic: Jellyfish Stings
Ferdinando	posted 08-05-2002 08:20 AM ET (US) I camped out this weekend just off the coast of Puerto Rico in an area calle Salinas, It's beautiful and perfect for boat camping, plus it's a Whalers paradise. At one point we had about 8 Whalers all together. While shooting the breeze about our boats in a small cove a 10 yr old boy was stung by a jelly fish on his left arm. The screams were awful. I had a bottle of sting-aid and I gave it to the parents, It did not seem to help much. Any hints on what can ease the burning sensation?????????/? Thks, Fred
whalerron	posted 08-05-2002 08:33 AM ET (US) In the south end of the Chesapeake Bay, sea nettles are so thick, you could almost walk across the Bay on them. This is a very common occurence here. Their tentacles get wrapped around the anchor line and anything else that hangs in the water. So, we get stung alot. Two common solutions for nettle stings here are meat tenderizer or ammonia dabbed on the sting.
andiamo	posted 08-05-2002 09:24 AM ET (US) My son was stung by a jelly fish a few years ago in Palm Beach County Fl. and some one on the beach called the paramedics. The professionals used liquid amonia and said that if you don't have it use Viniger. Really soak the are for as long as it takes. I would note that "After Bite" the insect sting treatment smells to be pure ammonia. In a case of history repeating itself, as a kid I body surfed through what was presumed to be a man-of-war and a local doctor gave me a shot of adrenalin ( I assume to ward of shock). As I understand it the "epi-pens" that anaphalactics carry is pure adrenilin and that administering it in error does no harm but failing to give it can be tragic. Does anyone out there who has medical training thing we should think about carrying amonia and epi pens as part of our first aide kit.
reelescape1	posted 08-05-2002 09:45 AM ET (US) Vinegar......first-aid books will tell you in an emergency use human urine. I took an old water bottle (plastic) and filled it with vinegar.
kgregg	posted 08-05-2002 10:03 AM ET (US) I've had great sucess using urine on jelly fish stings.
kingfish	posted 08-05-2002 10:24 AM ET (US) I doubt that it is the same thing, but I'll pass this along anyway, just in case it might help- I got stung in the forearm a couple of years ago by a really po'd stingray - the only thing the Ft Myers hospital could do (yeah, it was so bad it sent me to the hospital) was have me immerse my arm in the hottest water I could stand. It made the pain almost bearable until the water cooled and I had to expose my arm to the air again while preparing another basin of hot water. They said the venom from the stingray was a protein and as such I just had to wait for my body to process it, but the pain usually subsided in about 45 minutes. Took over four hours for mine to become bearable, and the next day my arm was black and blue, yellow and purple from my fingers to my shoulder. Anyway, immersion in hot water might be worth a try- kingfish
T Party	posted 08-05-2002 10:26 AM ET (US) I purchased an "After Bite" pen and read the active ingredient when I got home: ammonia. My son was stung earier this summer in the Chesapeake Bay, and my sister-in-law had a different brand of sting pen that used topical diphenhydramine (IIRC) that worked instantly and better than the vinegar we tried on part of the sting. WebMD recommends vinegar: http://my.webmd.com/encyclopedia/article/4117.967
ron3637	posted 08-05-2002 11:53 AM ET (US) I was also stung by a ray and the hot water, as hot as you can stand, treatment was very effective.
andygere	posted 08-05-2002 12:17 PM ET (US) I was stung by a man-o-war in Jamaica many years ago. When I finally reached the hospital, (and the hospital located the doctor) I was given a large shot of Benydril right in the behind. I imagine a tablet or two of the same thing would help for less serious stings.
David Jenkins	posted 08-05-2002 01:08 PM ET (US) I have had success rubbing sand on jelly fish stings. As soon as you are stung, grab some sand and start rubbing.
Bigshot	posted 08-05-2002 01:17 PM ET (US) I got hit by a chopped up man-o-war and MSG(meat tenderizer) works good. Amonia or vinegar is Ok too. For Sea Urchins the locals use urine. My sisters friends dad sat on one in Jamaica and she said she could not pee on his butt because she was laughing so hard. In Austrailia they have Box jellyfish where if you do not get an antidote in under 20 minutes you are dead, scars last forever. They also have these invisible ones that will kill you in hours. They recommend you swim with a laycra suit to prevent this.
Tin Man	posted 08-05-2002 01:20 PM ET (US) We use a solution of rubbing alcohol and baking soda. Mix it into a paste, cover the affected area, let it dry and then scape it off with a spoon. Last weekend we had about a dozen calls for jellyfish stings and they have continued through the week. Previously we used meat tenderizer but found the baking soda and alcohol to be the most effective on man of war stings. Dry hot sand also seems to alleviate the stings if nothing else is available. During my EMT training, I was told hot water will break down the toxins from catfish and stringrays quicker. Like in kingfish's post. The thing we monitor are signs of difficulty in breathing and the onset of a severe allergic reaction. As far as Epipens go, here in SC they are prescription items. By law I could not administer it to anyone unless it was prescribed to that person and under direct medical control's approval. Those at the paramedic level are able to administer epinephrine, but only after receiving direct medical control. I would not reccomend carrying or administering epinephrine to anyone it was not prescribed. Individuals who have epi-pen prescriptions have been evaluated by a doctor and are prescribed dosages which are tailored to their age, weight, physical condition, etc. It is not a one size fits all.
hooter	posted 08-05-2002 02:20 PM ET (US) Anudder good reason to drink beer. Jez piss on it. Woiks like a damn CHARM.
Morocco	posted 08-05-2002 03:29 PM ET (US) Cnidaria use a nematocyst that shoots an injectable thread that is soaked in venom that pierces human skin. Venoms vary in toxicity, but there is an additive effect since a single exposure can result in thousands of nematocysts firing. Almost all care is 'supportive' which in medicine means 'watchful waiting' and pain/symptom control. However, the following decontamination schemes can help minimize the amount of venom that reaches your skin. 1. Try not to thrash, scratch or scrape -- this will just fire more nematocysts. 2. Keep some latex gloves on your boat (great for painting, epoxy, etc...) then double glove and wash with SEA WATER or SALT water. DO NOT USE FRESH WATER -- it causes instant firing of the nematocysts. You can also use tweezers or a safety razor to 'shave' the area. Think of it like removing a bee sting with a credit card -- to avoid squeezing the venom sac of the bee stinger -- multiplied a couple of hundred times... 3. Use vinegar (keep in a spray bottle if you are in an infested area -- you know who you are...) and spray the area for 20 mins to inactivate the unfired nematocysts. One EXCEPTION: 4. SEA NETTLES -- don't use vinegar, use a slurry of baking soda. Vinegar, like fresh water, causes Sea Nettles to fire. A word on EPI PENS. Very useful to have if you have lots of guests, but I don't think you should stock them just in case -- everyone who really needs them will carry thier own, and epinephrine is a dangerous drug. Use it only when a patient has signs of anaphalaxsis -- swelling of the lips, tongue and uvula (the thing that hangs down in the back of the throat) along with shortness of breath. Benadry is great to have along for all the other mild reactions -- you don't need a prescription and can buy it anywhere. I do keep a box of it, locked up, on my boat. (Keep away from children or just keep a handful say 4 or 5 on the boat at a time -- not enough for even a small kid to OD on.) Oh, if you're whalerin' in Australia, watch out for Box Jellyfish -- severe cases actually need to get to a hospital for antivenin. It's the only Cnidarian that has an antidote.
Bigshot	posted 08-05-2002 03:46 PM ET (US) Here we have it kids! No offense to anyone but "some" threads that are not "whaler related" can and do have major importance in this forum. I for one rarely get stung but if I do, I will remember these tips. I ALWAYS thought freshwater would kill the sting being they are salt water animals but now I know why sometimes you do not even know you got stung until you hit the shower....YOW! Tin Man, morocco, and all.....especially Hooter, great job!
rsgwynn1	posted 08-05-2002 06:48 PM ET (US) Preparation H is standard for jellyfish stings. And I don't mean only if you sit on one.
James	posted 08-05-2002 07:45 PM ET (US) August is Jellyfish time around the Jersey Shore. Our local paper (The Asbury Park Press) printed the following advice for its readers in today's edition. I present it verbatim for your review. WHAT TO DO IF YOU ARE STUNG: 1. Immediately flood the stung area with household vinegar (take it with you to the beach) to keep more stingers from firing. This does not relieve pain but prevents additional stings. 2. Pluck off any vinegar-soaked tentacles with a stick or other tool. Don't use your hands. 3. Never rub the area with sand or anything else. 4. For pain relief, apply ice packs. If pain becomes unbearable, go to an emergency room. 5. Popular folk remedies - such as applying meat tenderizer, baking soda, alcohol or human urine to the sting site - may do more harm than good. Some meat tenderizers can cause skin to peel. Alcohol and urine may cause more stingers to fire, making the injury worse. The effectiveness of commercial sprays also is questionable. 6. If stung in the eyes, pour copious amounts of room temperature tap water into your eyes for at least 15 minutes. If vision blurs, or the eyes continue to tear, hurt, swell or be sensitive to light see a doctor. 7. If you have shortness of breath, weakness, muscle cramps or heart palpitations, go to an emergency room immediately. Consider even the slightest breathing difficulty or altered level of consciousness to be a medical emergency. The article references the following sources: "All Stings Considered" book by Dr. Craig Thomas and Susan Scott; advice from Steven Webster, senior marine biologist for the Monterey Bay Aquarium ihn Northern California. A website is also provided: http://people.cornellcollege.edu/w-marshall/GEO105/anatomy.htm. James.
David Jenkins	posted 08-05-2002 09:30 PM ET (US) So fresh water makes the unfired stingers fire but you should nevertheless flush the eyes with fresh water? Why not use salt water?
Morocco	posted 08-05-2002 10:59 PM ET (US) Here is a link to a neat site that references "All Stings Considered." While the author Craig Thomas is a diver and doctor, his book does differ from the standard accepted treatments a little. Also note that the 'box jellyfish' section and the 'man of war' section seem to be the same with the nouns replaced. Odd, but not unusual when books get 'excerpted,' especially by 'general medical reporters.' http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/alsting1.html Regarding fresh water in the eyes: it is a standard medical remedy to flush with fresh water -- people can't stand the irritation of anything else, so in this case the authors probably mean to flush AFTER you've removed any nematocysts from the area around the eyes -- to wash away venom (your eyes will do that by themselves with copious tears, but water does help.) Full strength vinegar is still the accepted 'deactivator' in everything Cindarian but sea nettle exposure (baking soda). Preparation H is a mild anti-inflam. (like hydro cortisone, which it contains in some places) Tylenol, motrin or aspirin are all fine for pain, as is ice (don't give aspirin to children, give tylenol) and make the following call: Is the patient 'sick' or 'not-sick.' If they are acting strange, passing out, having trouble breathing or drinking (you know what I mean)or seem to be getting worse with removal of the insult, put them in the 'sick' category and call for help. Use common sense and you'll be okay.
Morocco	posted 08-05-2002 11:03 PM ET (US) Oh, and here's proof that, in today's world, you just can't specialize enough. http://medschool.umaryland.edu/departments/dermatology/Consort.html And no, I do not subscribe.
Jay A	posted 08-05-2002 11:34 PM ET (US) Crush some asprin into a powder and mix it with water to create a paste then "dab" it on. This will localize the effected area and also works great on sunburns and poison ivy!
triblet	posted 08-06-2002 12:16 AM ET (US) To prevent jelly stings, wear a full wetsuit, booties, gloves, hood, and mask. The only thing stingable is a little around your mouth, so don't kiss any jellies. Or better, a drysuit, gloves, hood, and mask. The heat is because the venom is a protein and will break down and congeal under heat just like an egg. Fresh water makes the nematocysts fire. After they've fired there's little risk of getting stung. Wouldn't you rather deal with a drunk with an AK-47 who'd just fired it into the air than the same drunk with a loaded AK? I flush my anchor line tub with lots of fresh water, esp. in jelly season. Vinegar does help with Sea Nettles. Every year we get them big time in Monterey, mmm, they are a bit overdue this year. I carry a small (couple of ounces) bottle in the RPS on my Montauk. Chuck