posted 10-11-2002 11:56 PM ET (US)        

I often tow the Montauk when on the Chesapeake. Squalls are sometimes quick and violent. Here’s my dilemma. What do you do with it in such a circumstance? As you can imagine I don’t want it attached to the ‘Mother’ boat because it can be hard enough sometimes just to keep headway let alone worry about what do you do with a 17’ boat drifting around still attached. All kinds of things could happen. It could flip/swamp in any case I’d have to cut the painter anyhow but some of the real worry is while maneuvering the possibility of having it surf into us becomes a real possibility.

About the only thing I can think of is just let it drift with a drogue and leave out the anchor and all the rode so in case it drifts close enough to shore it’ll anchor itself (hopefully).

posted 10-12-2002 01:44 AM ET (US)            

Cutting a 17' boat loose in a crowded area like the Bay during the zero visability conditions of a squall could be considered criminal negligence should another vessel strike your unmanned Whaler.

posted 10-12-2002 02:14 PM ET (US)            

I hadn't thought of the liability/salvage issues. Very interesting and probably a lot of truth to them.

If there are other able adults on board I'd leave them and take the Montauk to shelter in the lee of someplace. However I worry of somehow getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time even though I've taken as many precautions possible. As someone on another post said something about 'Mother Nature has a lot of patience' or some such thing.

I'm just trying to think of worst-case scenarios and what-ifs. I have been boating all my life but many (if not most) of you may have more time-on-water than I do and that's what counts in my books. That's why I'm asking here.

posted 10-13-2002 10:03 AM ET (US)            

Actually, the sailboat is pretty well the best bet in bad weather, they rarely sink. The cardinal rule in sailboats is to stay with the boat until you can step from it into your liferaft, so to speak. There is no danger of the boat swamping due to waves etc, as there is in a open motor boat. In the Fastnet disaster in 1979 ( racing around fastnet rock in the UK ) a force 10 gale tore through the racing fleet and wrecked havoc on the yachts. Lives were lost. If my memory serves me correctly, there were several instances where people abandoned their yachts and the yachts were later found floating intact. ( as an aside, there was also a case where everybody abandoned a yacht, leaving one person on who they thought was dead - well he was not and was rescued later... ) There is an excellant book on this event "Fastnet Force 10" by John Rousmainaire ( sp ? ) Gripping reading. Anyhow 45 kts in a normal sailboat is quite managable if you are able to set an appropriate amount of sail, not pleasant but managable. Worst case is if you are off a lee shore. Towing a Montauk, well I would not want to do it myself as the strain on the tow lines etc would be a bit unnerving. Arch, one possiblity would be to heave to in the sailboat which should allow you to ride out the squall. Next time you are out in your boat try it to see how your boat handles

over and out from the peanut gallery,

posted 10-13-2002 05:14 PM ET (US)            

I think that's the answer I was looking for. It hadn't occurred to me to heave to because I never have. I always put up the storm trysail to make minimal headway for steering. But even with a lot of 'off-wind' (I can't remember the work) rudder it's reasonably hard to keep the bow off the wind.

The Montauk not only slows me about 1 knot but additionally because the wind pushes it it pulls the bow into the wind so in effect anything above about 40 or so knots of wind makes headway nearly impossible. Also if the Montauk swamps you can imagine the added drag it would create.

I will have to try heaving to in more moderate weather to see how that works. I’ll bet the Montauk would tend to drift downwind and straight into the wind minimizing the chanced of swamping but we’ll see.

There’s no way I would ever consider being on an open boat vs. a heavy deep-draft sailboat in a squall as Ron pointed out. Done that a half-dozen times or so and it’s no big deal. The Bay squalls usually last only ½ hour or so anyhow so even though they may be violent (>50 kts not uncommon) they are relatively short.

The one thing I may try also is moving the painter to the spring vs. stern cleats to see how everything is affected then.

Thanks all for your input so far.

posted 10-14-2002 11:09 AM ET (US)            

I don’t really sail that much anymore but family and friends still use “LaSalle” (yawl). I’m always down there with whomever is using it. My son and I are off fishing mostly coming back to eat, drink and sleep when we get to wherever we’re going. If the bite is off or something I just tie off and go where they go.

I know it’s not normal to be towing the Montauk with a yawl and people are often saying ‘nice dingies’ (with a wink) knowing that it’s not the normal one ‘cause we also have an 8’ Dyer we tow also at the same time. Then the kids sometimes pull little plastic boats behind all that while sitting in the Montauk. We look like a band of gypsies!! It is funny to see though and people are always hailing us commenting and laughing with us!

Anyhow that’s the reason for the topic. I’m down at the Bay with everyone else and that’s why the Montauk is often in tow. Maybe I forgot to say that I live in Pittsburgh and the Bay is 4 ½ hours away so LaSalle is where we eat/drink/sleep.

And you’re right, BS. We’ve used the Whaler to pull ourselves (and many others) off shoals countless times it seems. But for some reason this yawl doesn’t respond very well to towing the Montauk.

posted 10-14-2002 12:52 PM ET (US)            

My wife and I came returned from Catalina a couple of years ago in good nasty storm. 35-40 knot wind plus, 15-20 foot swells but with long amplitude with the odd "apartment building" rolling through, and maybe a two to three foot chop on top. It was getting to dangerous on the mooring on the Island so we headed home in our wonderful and proven Columbia 43 which is a great sailer.. and usually dry on deck. At first we had a much shorter tether on our 15 foot Mark II Zodia with 30 hp (maybe 300 pounds dry) but on more than one occassion coming across a large swell we actually passed my old zodia, looking down on it to see it full of water. Each time I threw a kiss goodbye to it thinking that the whip would rip out my cleats or snap the line.

But it held in there. I let out a couple of hundred feet of lead and the dink was just fine, out of sight a lot of times but fine. It help us sailing a little esepcially when we broke over a swell funny... a good sea anchor.

And it was a great sail home, double reef main only. I ran the old perkins just in case I needed a little extra to get over the top of a swell. Once I learned to leave the boat alone and stop over-controlling we had a ball. It is intersting climbing up swells in a 43 footer. We even went below for lunch when we got closer and the swells reduced to 10 footer.

When we arrived the zodia was perfect, no damage, and dry.

The trick was how I secured the tether. I thru-bolted two cleats on the transome down low, on the inside, and ran a double tether over the sides and through a nose ring which was attached to the front lifting ring with a strap. Each time the boat was pulled or jerked... the nose of the zodiac was lifted up nice and high... no way for to be buried in a wave. Plus the "nose up" position helped drain it.

posted 10-14-2002 11:39 PM ET (US)            

The Montauk is roughly 3-4x the weight of your Zodiak as you described so it does have more of an impact towing I would think. And that's without any water that's sloshed in.

I have put it back about 50 feet and when it surfs it easily turns 90 degrees either way and get's snapped back and surfs the other way. I'll also try putting more out next time to lessen the shock each time. Maybe I am over-controlling and worring too much but that's my nature I guess.

posted 10-15-2002 02:45 PM ET (US)            

The 43 was my apartment for a while... loved it and would get another in a heartbeat. Sold my 43 to a couple who really wanted it and are now starting their third year of a circumnav. I get the odd email and picture of her in warm blue waters.

posted 10-15-2002 03:18 PM ET (US)            

Interesting thread, I don't have any expert advice other than to say you may want to pull the plug on the whaler when towing, some water will come in but the rain & waves won't build up in the boat to add to the weight problem of the Montauk.

This is probably a stupid question, but why attempt to make headway at all? If you actually think your bow will be blown off, why not drop anchor & ride out the squall? Would an anchor not hold? I would think with enough scope of nylon line (not chain), this would be no worse a ride than motoring or sailing into the storm. The whaler will certainly stay downwind of you then. At slow speed into the wind, pulling the Montauk, it's unlikely that you would make much forward progress anyway.

posted 10-16-2002 07:11 AM ET (US)            

Capt.
I have thought of leaving the engine down as it would help it to track straighter and not surf as easily but of course the trade off is it adds to the drag. (But maybe not significantly.)

John.

I do think I'll need to pull the plug even though it will add at least 100# or so of standing water static. At least it wouldn't get much worse for very long. Even rain fills it up pretty quickly though. And anchoring is a thought but just hasn't been my tendency to anchor as I need to go to shallower depths (only 300 feet of anchor line). So far heaving-to and anchoring seem the most likely candidates.

The one thing that sticks with me was the last time it squalled a couple years ago we had just passed the Bay Bridge and the wind and chop was so severe I couldn't make any headway at all and were in danger of being blown back into one of the many, many bridge supports. It terrified me of course. I am generally used to being in deep water where I don't have to worry about hitting anything.