posted 12-13-2002 12:24 PM ET (US)            

I actually considered replacing my ML320 with one, but I don't have any children at home anymore and the ML tows my boats fine. If I had something in the 6K to 7K weight range it would be towed by a Toyota 4Runner V8 or LC.

The Sub is a good vehicle, as immense barges go, but. . . .quality? Fit and finish? Depreciation?

posted 12-13-2002 12:48 PM ET (US)            

Ford Truck Tough.

I replaced my K2500 when the head gaskets went on the diesel.

The replacement - Ford F250 with the powerstroke diesel. Love the truck and know that it will never notice my Montauk, and has lots of room to move up.

posted 12-13-2002 01:25 PM ET (US)            

To me the best things that I just listed are what makes the best tow vehicles, long wheel base, overall vehicle weight, engine displacement/torque, and heavy duty drivetrain/brakes. All of this also adds up to safety.

The Suburban has the larger motor where I believe there is no subitute for cubic inches. Believe it or not, Americans though still not making cars as good as the foreigners, make good cars. In my family now are one Suburban and one Chevy truck, both have over 6 digits of miles on them with some fairly heavy duty use. (Towing mainly)

I have had a Toyota pickup as a tow vehicle before, and though it had the power, it was not heavy duty. I ended up with new brakes once every year, and had to be very careful about jack-knifing because the boat/trailer combination pushed the truck all over the place.

Personally, I tow with an F-250 Powerstroke, never towed with anything better.

Now, all that said, if your boats are less than 3k lbs with trailer most of what I said above doesn't matter. A Toyota will handle that weight fairly well, but the 5k they advertise is scary.

posted 12-13-2002 01:33 PM ET (US)            

28 Revenge: Get the 'Burb.
17 Montauk: Get the Land Cruiser. I have
no problems towing mine with an '01 Nissan
Pathfinder.

posted 12-13-2002 02:19 PM ET (US)            

I can't really say much about Toyota vs. Chevy reliabiility. I have a 1994 V6 Pickup 4x4 with 125,000 trouble free miles. I used to have a 1986 Blazer S-10, that had 225,000 basically trouble free miles when i sold it.

As an aside, i don't really like the new Landcruiser's. They have been americanized with independent front suspension, DVD players and all of that stuff. My next vehicle will be a 1997 landcruiser, the last of a breed. I need to hurry up because those things are selling for more than a 1998 LC's now.

posted 12-13-2002 02:43 PM ET (US)            

I wonder if this whole discussion re: Chevy v. Toyota might be analagous to Sea Ray(or other) v. Whaler.

Highest quality, resale value, dependability, highest cost = Toyota / Whaler

or is it

Utilitarian, heavyduty components, hosable interior = Chevy / Whaler?

or is it

Plush interior, fancy bulbous detailing, phat stereo system = Toyota / Sea Ray

posted 12-13-2002 03:06 PM ET (US)            

That vehicle weighs about 5500lb and can tow a pretty big boat comfortably.

Bashing Toyota pickups with pipsquak 4 and 6 cylinder engines is about as relevant as bashing Trackers or S-10s.

A Sub with a Duramax TurboDiesel and Allison transmission is a horse of a different color than a gas powered Sub. Any reservations about the Toy? Get a Diesel/Allison Sub (if you can).

posted 12-13-2002 03:09 PM ET (US)            

JimH, I would donate more bux if needed to get an edit function.:)

posted 12-13-2002 04:13 PM ET (US)            

The new Lexus is sweet, and don’t forget the new BMW X4.

Get the wife the Land Cruiser!!!

posted 12-13-2002 05:47 PM ET (US)            

My '95 Pathfinder launched the Montauk in
salt water almost every weekend for four
years. NO rust.

posted 12-14-2002 01:40 PM ET (US)            

When someone makes reference to, for eample, a Ford Expedition or GM Suburban as an "SUV", I can't help but laugh. Each is identical to the half-ton or three-quarter-ton version of the same vehicle called a pickup or light truck. Engine, frame, wheel base, drive train, brakes, towing capacity, you name it.

The only difference is body style - enclosed bed vs. open bed. The same applies, to a large extent, for S-10 Blazers/S-10 pickups, Explorers/Rangers, Durangos/Dakotas as well as the Japanese 4-Runners, Troopers and Paththfinders and their pickup counterparts.

A case can be made for labeling some vehicles as SUVs - Honda Passport, Geo Tracker and Kia Sportage to name a few. Generally good, useful vehicles for the right application but they are not built on a truck frame and they don't fit the parameters of either mini-vans or cars.

Is it better to take your kid to a ballgame, the library or boat ramp in an open bed or closed bed truck? You tell me.

I'm in construction and I've used full size and compact pickups, full size vans and Suburbans to haul materials and tow equipment. Each has their strengths and shortcomings (kind of like various watercraft) but you can't beat a Suburban/Expedition type vehicle if it has to do double duty as a people mover.

Two days ago, a grandmother and her grandchild were killed and another grandchild critically injured in this area when the grandmother's Ford Escort was rear-ended by a school bus (she was making a left hand turn off a highway) and pushed into the path of an oncoming delivery vehicle. Anecdotal? Sure. But there's a good chance the parents of those kids can't help but wonder if it would have been different had they been in an immense barge. Maybe it wouldn't, but there's no second chance to find out.

posted 12-14-2002 02:44 PM ET (US)            

The 5.4L engine has gobs of mid-range torque.

posted 12-14-2002 03:37 PM ET (US)            

All I'm saying is that from a personal standpoint I'll prefer steel around me as long as there are dump trucks, 18 wheelers, milk truks, cement trucks, garbage trucks, logging trucks, et al on the road.

The fact remains that the larger the vehicle, the safer it is. In a collision between a compact car and a motorcycle, you are safer in a compact car. That doesn't make the driver of a compact car "bad" to be driving the larger vehicle. And it doesn't mean everyone should be prohibitied from owning anything bigger than a motorcycle.

I've owned a number of compact cars a really liked many of them...Accords, Camrys and my favorite - a '76 Mazda Cosmo with the 12B Wankel (big difference between the 12B and the 11A even though both were REAL quick). They are more manueverable, quicker, cheaper to operate, easier to park and usually less to insure. I'd never think about criticizing someone who chooses to own one.

But people spewing the anti-light truck diatribe quickly grow tiresome - especially the ones working the "SUV" angle (see previous post re: light trucks/SUVs). I'll stick to what I said earlier - they are uninformed or have an agenda much bigger than vehicle choice.

A lot of those same folks would like to see all of us in canoes or sailboats. I love canoes and sailboats, but I also like powerboats. The bottom line is that we all get to make choices - it's why this country is what it is.

With that I think I've strayed far enough off topic. sammy

posted 12-14-2002 08:18 PM ET (US)            

I'm not sure the Toyota Land Cruiser is a sufficiently beefy tow vehicle for you. I imagine your 247 must be pushing 6000 pounds fueled up including the trailer. That would be quite a load for a Land Cruiser.

I would look at a new Tahoe or Yukon with the 3rd seat option. The Tahoe/Yukon is only 2" wider and 6" longer than the Land Cruiser, certainly your wife won't mind that. The new for '03 Expedition does seem pretty nice but the current rebates and financing offers on the GM trucks can't be beat.

Good luck!

gf

posted 12-15-2002 02:43 PM ET (US)            

With the tighter turning radius at low speed and the stability directional change at high speed this may now be the best town taxi and tow vehicle.

Currently the option is not available on 1500 series as the rear steering unit needs the clearance provided by the 3/4 suspension. I hopet they can also get it to work in the 1500 series

posted 12-18-2002 10:52 PM ET (US)            

I didn't tow a boat with the '87, but I did
tow a '68 Firebird 400 Convertible on a
mammoth rental trailer, and it was OK, but
I wouldn't have wanted to make a habit of it.

The only difference trailering the Montauk
between the '95 and the '01 is that while the
'95 went up big freeway hills OK, I did have
to use third gear on one. The '01 does
them in fifth, usually. But it should:
80 more HP and less weight. The '95 had
four wheel disks, the '01 has drums in the
back. The '95 had rear-only antilock, the
'01 has four wheel anti-lock. The '01 has
more room, and has some storage compartments
for tools.

Nissan speced both '95 and '01s for towing
5000 pounds with a/t, 3500 with m/t.

General handling while towing is about the
same between the '95 and the '01.

Alas, it looks like no stick shift for the
'03 PF.

posted 01-03-2003 10:30 AM ET (US)            

I have owned a Toyota Tacoma and presently a Chevy Suburban. There really is no comparison between the two. You might have guessed the Pickup was just too small all though it is a great truck.

The Toyota was 4x4 with V-6 and off road pkg so it had 4.11 rear with gas shocks. The ride was very rough as you might expect but it did pull and stop fairly well my 16 Dauntless (Aprox 3,000-3500 lbs with trailer).

I LOVE the Suburban (1500). The Newer models 2000+ are much improved. Fit and Finish are not bad for an American car or Jap- American car for that matter. In fact, I had some initial quality problems with My Toyota and None for the Chevy. Mph is not bad, we get 18 on the Highway and about 15mph otherwise. Our Burb has the Auto Ride which levels the truck once extra weight is added- like that of the trailer tongue or any gear you through in ( Large Relatives). In my opinion if you are looking at the Tahoe the Suburban is not that much longer with loads of extra room inside.

It’s nice to have one vehicle to pile everyone into. We have a couple of dogs and a 17 month old boy and one on the way. New Jersey has a booster seat law for Children less than 8 years old or eighty (80) lbs. If you have more than 2 kids you need a van or something to fit the car seats in. We now have a vehicle that can meet out needs for the next 8 years and Pull a larger Whaler to boot!

Anyway, you will not be disappointed with the Chevy.

Bear, I can't believe you crossed over to the dark side with that Ford!

posted 01-03-2003 04:32 PM ET (US)            

We've got the big engine and the auto-ride in the Tahoe, so it's a pretty good tow-mobile for a vehicle of it's size - and not appreciably different from the Burb.(Of course, if we're considering only towing, neither holds a candle to our Ford F-350 with the Powerstroke...but that's probably not a fair comparison.)