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Author Topic:   Carbed Two-Strokes in California

triblet posted 01-20-2003 01:10 AM ET (US)
There seems to be a good deal of
misinformation here about carbed two-strokes
in California.
New ones can't be sold after some model year
('00?) New units from prior model years can
can still be sold.
They can be operated in salt water. They can
be operated in almost all fresh water. The
most notable place where they cannot be
operated is Lake Tahoe. There are also a
couple of minor lakes (so minor I didn't
recognize their names) where they cannot be
operated.
There doesn't seem to be any momementum to
tighten this any further.
(Actually, the law doesn't say "carbed
two-strokes" but rather sets emmision
limits that nobody has figured how to meet
with a carbed two-stroke or an EFI two-stroke.
They have been met with direct injection
two-strokes and all sorts of four-strokes.)
OK?

Chuck
ducktwin posted 01-20-2003 02:42 AM ET (US)
Chuck,
The OB's that meet 2006 standards were built to meet CA standards.
Although, I would not doubt that CA enforcement could vary, to include NO outboards.
If an OB has a 2006 rating, they can't throw you off of any lake unless the law states specifically "4-stroke only".
If it does, they are hypocrites and should be challenged.
triblet posted 01-20-2003 10:22 AM ET (US)
Ducktwin, your post has a tone of saying
there's something incorrect in my post, but you
don't contradict anything I said. Am I
misinterpreting your tone, or missing something
in what you said?
Note: nothing wrong with saying I'm wrong,
esp if I am. I'm just confused by your post.

Chuck
prm1177 posted 01-20-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
California EPA info on 2 strokes is here:
http://dbw.ca.gov/MTBEFAQ.htm
and
http://www.dbw.ca.gov/MTBEList.htm
The last list is specific to the types of watercraft allowed. Most restrictions are for personal watercraft. The only outright ban on 2 strokes of all types is San Pablo Resevoir in the Bay area. Most of us expect an eventual ban there on all gas engines.
In other areas, the 2 stroke must pass 2001 CARB standards and/or use non MTBE flavored gas.
Capt_Tidy posted 01-20-2003 01:53 PM ET (US)
So when MTBE is phased out... all the restrictions associated with 2-stroke engines will be recalled and the inner waterways of America will never have engine restrictions?
diveorfish posted 01-20-2003 02:05 PM ET (US)
In California who knows? People are wacko out here. Of course that's no surprise to anybody.
triblet posted 01-20-2003 02:30 PM ET (US)
Don't misinterpret the size of the list. Most
of the lakes are listed for restrictions on
PWCs.
It would be more accurate to say:
In A FEW other areas, the 2 stroke must pass
2001 CARB standards. This has nothing to do
with MTBE, and phasing out MTBE will not
affect this.
On three lakes, ALL gasoline-powered boats
must use non MTBE flavored gas. On one lake, two-strokes must use MTBE-free fuel. The MTBE
restrictions are because these are drinking
water resevoirs where boating is a secondary
activity (i.e, water bills paid for it) and
excessive MTBE levels have been measured.
The alternative was no powerboats at all.
MTBE-free fuel is available around if you do
your homework, though I gotta admit the
station closest to my house is a real pain
with a boat trailer on.

Chuck

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Author	Topic: Carbed Two-Strokes in California
triblet	posted 01-20-2003 01:10 AM ET (US) There seems to be a good deal of misinformation here about carbed two-strokes in California. New ones can't be sold after some model year ('00?) New units from prior model years can can still be sold. They can be operated in salt water. They can be operated in almost all fresh water. The most notable place where they cannot be operated is Lake Tahoe. There are also a couple of minor lakes (so minor I didn't recognize their names) where they cannot be operated. There doesn't seem to be any momementum to tighten this any further. (Actually, the law doesn't say "carbed two-strokes" but rather sets emmision limits that nobody has figured how to meet with a carbed two-stroke or an EFI two-stroke. They have been met with direct injection two-strokes and all sorts of four-strokes.) OK? Chuck
ducktwin	posted 01-20-2003 02:42 AM ET (US) Chuck, The OB's that meet 2006 standards were built to meet CA standards. Although, I would not doubt that CA enforcement could vary, to include NO outboards. If an OB has a 2006 rating, they can't throw you off of any lake unless the law states specifically "4-stroke only". If it does, they are hypocrites and should be challenged.
triblet	posted 01-20-2003 10:22 AM ET (US) Ducktwin, your post has a tone of saying there's something incorrect in my post, but you don't contradict anything I said. Am I misinterpreting your tone, or missing something in what you said? Note: nothing wrong with saying I'm wrong, esp if I am. I'm just confused by your post. Chuck
prm1177	posted 01-20-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) California EPA info on 2 strokes is here: http://dbw.ca.gov/MTBEFAQ.htm and http://www.dbw.ca.gov/MTBEList.htm The last list is specific to the types of watercraft allowed. Most restrictions are for personal watercraft. The only outright ban on 2 strokes of all types is San Pablo Resevoir in the Bay area. Most of us expect an eventual ban there on all gas engines. In other areas, the 2 stroke must pass 2001 CARB standards and/or use non MTBE flavored gas.
Capt_Tidy	posted 01-20-2003 01:53 PM ET (US) So when MTBE is phased out... all the restrictions associated with 2-stroke engines will be recalled and the inner waterways of America will never have engine restrictions?
diveorfish	posted 01-20-2003 02:05 PM ET (US) In California who knows? People are wacko out here. Of course that's no surprise to anybody.
triblet	posted 01-20-2003 02:30 PM ET (US) Don't misinterpret the size of the list. Most of the lakes are listed for restrictions on PWCs. It would be more accurate to say: In A FEW other areas, the 2 stroke must pass 2001 CARB standards. This has nothing to do with MTBE, and phasing out MTBE will not affect this. On three lakes, ALL gasoline-powered boats must use non MTBE flavored gas. On one lake, two-strokes must use MTBE-free fuel. The MTBE restrictions are because these are drinking water resevoirs where boating is a secondary activity (i.e, water bills paid for it) and excessive MTBE levels have been measured. The alternative was no powerboats at all. MTBE-free fuel is available around if you do your homework, though I gotta admit the station closest to my house is a real pain with a boat trailer on. Chuck