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Author Topic:   A boat company CAN turn themselves around!

george nagy posted 02-04-2003 04:33 PM ET (US)
The latest directions BOSTON WHALER has taken recently have been the topics of discussion many times on this forum. Some here have optamisticly forcasted a rebound in management and design desisions that would resurect the original concepts of BOSTON WHALER.
I would like to report a recent finding while browsing the net. I stumbled across the CHRIS CRAFT website and was very surprised.
We all know the boats that CHRIS CRAFT first produced with quality and romantic styling that became synonamous to the CHRIS CRAFT name. In the 80's and 90's CHRIS CRAFT seemed to have changed their philosophy much in the same ways BOSTON WHALER has recently cahnged theirs. CHRIS CRAFT totally conformed to the norm and produced cheaper less attractive boats. It would appear however that today they have returned to their lineage and sarted to produce a line of boats more suited to thier past.
I'm very impressed and hope that the current devaitions at WHALER don't last long. More and more boat companies seem to be using better hardware and more wood accents. I wonder how long BRUNSWICK will take to catch on?
Buckda posted 02-04-2003 06:53 PM ET (US)
George -
I couldn't agree more with your synopsis of the rebirth of Chris-Craft. Now that I have my whaler, my next target is a mid-50's Chris-Craft Capri.
The new Chris-Craft's are beautiful (and equally expensive). I too was impressed when I first saw them in Jan. 2002 at the Chicago boat show - the 26 Launch is a very pretty boat.
We can only hope that Whaler will follow a similar path - the rebirth of the classics would really move some blood - and cash - into the coffers at Brunswick. Perhaps they could offer a "classic" line with retro-styling. That might marry the wants of the masses with the desires of the die-hards.
lhg posted 02-05-2003 04:47 PM ET (US)
There's a glimmer of hope. At a well known BW dealer, among all of the new boats they had on their lot, there were 2 Classic 15 Alerts, 4 Classic 17 Alerts, and a Classic 22 Guardian Dive boat, with removable side hatch, all in recreational white. The 22, incidentally, with an aluminum trailer, Merc 225 4 stroke, 30" transom, Tee Top etc was about $65,000.
While I was there, I had them price me a 25 Guardian. Base price was $35,000 list, set up as shown on the website, in grey. Not too bad, I don't think. Add another $10,000 to fit it out recreationally, including gel coat, $18,000 for a pair of carbed 150's, $4000 for a disc brake trailer, and you've got a heck of a heavy duty brand new Classic 25 Whaler for about $70,000. That's a lot less (and a lot more) than a new 270 Outrage.
Next time I'm going to find out what the 19 Guardian (Classic 18 outrage) costs.
george nagy posted 02-05-2003 05:01 PM ET (US)
LHG the 19' guardian hull is 23,500. To outfir like a classic would be $5,000 for console and rps. Have you noticed the classics that have appeared in south FL? In the span of 5 min. I passed a classic 25'WD outrage with twin omc's, a classic 22' with a newer merc, and of-course your 25'. Overall not a bad day for classics in the land of the searays.
It is too bad that Whaler doesn't yet outfit the classics as classics w/wood and etc... Most buyers will not go through the troubles of putting together a package on thier ow.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-05-2003 08:28 PM ET (US)
George
My understanding is that CGP will install teak (or most anything else), for a small fee :)
Retro Whaler?
Most here seem to love the classics, but Paul and I are the only ones who have ordered a new commercial boat (am I wrong?). I think it’s fair to say that we (all of us here) represent the brand die-hards, yet there are only 2 factory ordered commercial boats in the bunch. Take the used CPD hulls that we know of, and we are up to what 4 boats? It doesn’t say much for new classics demand, and has me thinking that a ‘retro” Whaler would not sell in today’s market.
A “little bird” read some of my posts here and called to assure me that if the new hull (post-post classic?) doesn’t have me ordering a new fishing machine, nothing will. I have my doubts but will hold judgment till I drive one.
Has anyone here has driven the new hull?

lhg posted 02-05-2003 08:55 PM ET (US)
Louie - the new small classic Alerts in 15 & 17 size are selling very fast, even though they are bare bones. The bigger ones may be a more of a problem, since many don't want to deal with custom rigging and outfitting work.
The pricing seems very reasonable lately.
Believe me, you won't like the new 24 & 27 Outrages, unless you like a Fountain! Very deep inside, very heavy for their size, and not well suited for fishing. They feel like Sea Rays through and through, with a cramped interior compared to what I am used to. Been in several, but not driven one yet, and don't care to. Not seeing any out on the water, either.
OutrageMan posted 02-05-2003 09:17 PM ET (US)
In northern Door County (Lake Michigan-Wisconsin), the new models are quickly gaining ground on the classics. I have seen only one CPD and it is in a private marina in Egg Harbor.
Twin Cities Marine in Two Rivers claims to have sold more Whalers in the last 5 years than they had in the provious 10. And during this time, they have also been selling Grady White.
It really seems as though we classics lovers are in a very small minority.
As far as th new Chris Craft models go, I was able to spend a good deal of time crawling around 2 of their new runabouts. Very fine workmanship; quality boats.
Brian
andygere posted 02-05-2003 09:39 PM ET (US)
From the website, the Chris-Crafts look really nice. A teak cockpit sole in a runabout is unheard of these days, but really sets these boats apart from the crowd.
In terms of the low numbers of new CPD classics on this site, I think that may be due to a pretty good inventory of used hulls available for a lot less money. We all know they are well built, and even with some restoration and new power, the "out the door" cost for refurbishing a classic is much less than creating a new one through a CPD order. This does not explain why their are more post classic Whalers here than CPDs, assuming comperable pricing, but I suspect a lot of folks simply don't know the CPDs are available. I also imagine that most of the salesman are only interested in selling what they have on the lot, which are not custom ordered CPD boats.
PMUCCIOLO posted 02-06-2003 05:57 AM ET (US)
OutrageMan and andygere raise valid points. Many boaters don't know that the classic hulls are available to the public through Commercial and Government Products. Also, many of the classic parts (consoles, seats, cushion packages, tops, etc.) are still available; however, it sometimes takes a bit of leg work to locate the vendors and the part numbers.
I can see why a dealer would prefer to sell something out of his inventory or order a boat with a limited number of option packages that is in production on the recreational side of Boston Whaler. It's easier.
I have had several classic Whaler hulls from Commercial and Government Products outfitted. I must say that the end result provides a level of satisfaction that far outweighs the extra effort required to coordinate the boat's construction and delivery.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-06-2003 11:07 AM ET (US)
Guys you’re all correct that the unwillingness (or ignorance) of some dealers to order vs sell stock on hand contributes to the low recreational sales of commercial boats (I’ve stated the same many times). But, I think there is more to it.
I don’t feel there is any complexity involved with ordering a smaller CGP boat. My reasoning is that the smaller boats options are limited, and can be ordered stock with the only option being selection of power (any power). Even if someone wanted to mimic a classic, they would only have to change the color, RPS, rails and cleats. All are simple changes, and the guys at the factory do most the consulting. IMO it’s not difficult unless someone is looking to make an exact replica.
I realize that the average consumer doesn’t know these hulls are available. The point I was trying to make is that there are no CGP hulls ordered from people who lurk here. IMO we are not ignorant consumers, very passionate about Whalers, and most know Whalers better than the dealer’s salespeople. I just can’t see any one of us viewing a CGP order anything but fun, yet none have been bought.
Larry
I’ve also been in the post-post classic (Baha/Fountain type) hull, and like you I don’t think it will suit my fishing style. It should take steep chop at higher speeds, but I want to see how it will perform in steep quartering, beam, and following seas. In the unlikely event I do like the boat, I would only order if CGP builds it for me.
* It will have to be one hell of a ride for me to flip the Guardian.
Tom W Clark posted 02-06-2003 11:21 AM ET (US)
Louie,
Your comment about no one here ordering a CGP boat is not entirely correct. There are a few lurkers and posters here who have done just that, yourself included. I think you'd be surprised.
I think a lack of knowledge of the availability of the Classic hulls in CGP form is one reason as is the small number of knowledgeable dealers, but the the biggest hurdle is a very simple one: CGP boats are just plain expensive. Yes, you get what you pay for, but it still amounts to a lot of dough.
Let's face it, talk is cheap. That's why the FORUM is so popular, it costs nothing. The vast majority of the Whalers owned by participants here were bought used at that. While a recreational Whaler may be expensive, a large CGP boat is really expensive.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-06-2003 11:52 AM ET (US)
Tom
Sorry about the confusion, I should have been clearer :(
Both Paul and I where CGP customers previous to becoming ‘regulars’ here. If anyone has factory ordered one, I must have missed it.
Like you I think the CGP hulls cost a bit more, but Larry (and others) have quoted some reasonable pricing for CGP over the years. I’ve been looking for a ‘weekender’ and priced a Vigilant last year – I can’t remember the price offhand, but it wasn’t unreasonable.
lhg posted 02-06-2003 02:33 PM ET (US)
Don't forget that only about 1/4 of Whaler dealers are authorized to sell the CGP boats.
I think the problem is that the Dealers don't stock them, or set them up right to be competitively priced. But I think they are.
And if they were sitting in the showroom, would sell easily. Maybe BW won't allow this.
A 25 Guardian for $75000 or a 270 Outrage for $100,000? (same sized boats, fully rigged and powered). For the same $100,000, I'd rather have a full transom, 10' beam 27 Guardian.
I recently discovered one can have a 17 Alert for the same price as a 150 Sport. These are basically the same size boat, but the Alert is longer.(and superior)
What does a new 18 Dauntless cost? About $34000? On another thread someone indiated a new 19 Guardian (18 Outrage hull) is about $23,000. Add some more money for recreational rails, color, etc, put a new 150Hp engine, and you're at the same price!
How does an 18 Guardian compare to an 18 Dauntless? Are you kidding or what?
I'm beginning to think the CGP boats are a great deal, as long as you don't go hog-wild with factory special items. That's where the money comes in. But they are not for the Sea Ray package buyer who is being converted over to a Whaler.
george nagy posted 02-06-2003 04:28 PM ET (US)
Lauderdale Marine in South Florida stocks white 15's and 17's. The white shouldn't be an upcharge since they already make white boats in the rec. line.
One thing though, and not to poke at others' boats, but some larger cpd boats are NOT exactly the same as classics. As an example LHG's 25' has a full transom with original style 4 compartment bow while the new cpd hull has only one large compartment. I'm not sure you can get the transom cap with the 3 compartments either.
I'm considering purchasing a new classic 15' hull and at the $5,995 price it would be very comparable in price to the new 15'. I will have more freedom to choose options particularly engines.
I will admit that most of these participants on this site have purchased used boats but that isn't to say if and when they are ready to move on to another boat they will not buy a cpd.
lhg posted 02-06-2003 05:30 PM ET (US)
George - If you buy that 15 Alert bare hull, I know someone who will sell you a complete, brand new 15 Super Sport mahogany interior for it. It was taken out of a 1989 15 and never used. I think he wants about $800 for it.
Incidentally, thanks for not bothering to stop by and say hello when you went by the other day!!! But your Whaler looked great with the new engine on it.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-07-2003 01:02 AM ET (US)
Larry
You’re right about the options driving the price up!
It’s really tough to be disciplined :( It’s like building or renovating a home; a bit of this, a bit of that, all adds up :)
George
The Whaler drive models have many configurations and CGP can use the old molds (if they are still available) with commercial lay-up. I had them use a leaning post from a rec model on mine; the full transom with storage was also available.
The storage and Bomar hatches are (IMO) better – they are watertight and nothing rattles.
The West Coast Fishing Club (Queen Charlotte Islands) has over a dozen CGP 22’s in beige and stainless rails, check out this site.
http://www.westcoastfishingclub.com/opostfleet.asp
george nagy posted 02-07-2003 10:07 AM ET (US)
Sorry LHG I thought I would catch you on the way back up the channel. I will be sure to BUG you next time. Thanks for the compliment, I love that motor!
I asked my Whaler dealer about desert sand gelcoat and he said that they only offered white or grey on the inner mold and only a handfull of basic colors on the outer mold.
Those Canadian fishing boats for sure are NOT white.
The point I was originally making in this post was that Chris Craft RETURNED to thier heritage. Whaler has NOT done the same by hiding thier classics behind the cpd lineup.
I think that the price of 15' classic would be cheaper if outfitted as apackage rather than a-la-carte. Whaler buys and produces accessories much cheaper than an individual can. If they simply added two bench seats, a console, and a rail like the classic sport they would out-sell the new 150 sport.
One more thing about the 15' classic alert I'm looking at, it only is rated for a 40hp if ordered without a console and steering setup.
Tom W Clark posted 02-07-2003 11:33 AM ET (US)
The CGP boats come in Haze grey as the standard color but you can order white, red or Desert Tan for an up charge. You can also order one in some other custom color for an even greater up charge.
George makes a good point about the horsepower rating. If you order a boat without the remote steering installed, then you only get a capacity plate with the tiller steer maximum hp rating, usually about half what the remote steer capacity is.
lhg posted 02-07-2003 02:30 PM ET (US)
That didn't used to be the case. I ordered my 1971 16' as a bare hull, and built the Nauset interior. It came with a 100HP plate on it. Besides, I've never let those plates bother me anyway!!
Ordering a bare hull Alert 15 with a 40 HP plate on it would not be a legal/insurance problem, since one could easily establish that with console steering it's rated for 70.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-08-2003 03:09 AM ET (US)
They are beige, really, the pictures to them no justice.

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Author	Topic: A boat company CAN turn themselves around!
george nagy	posted 02-04-2003 04:33 PM ET (US) The latest directions BOSTON WHALER has taken recently have been the topics of discussion many times on this forum. Some here have optamisticly forcasted a rebound in management and design desisions that would resurect the original concepts of BOSTON WHALER. I would like to report a recent finding while browsing the net. I stumbled across the CHRIS CRAFT website and was very surprised. We all know the boats that CHRIS CRAFT first produced with quality and romantic styling that became synonamous to the CHRIS CRAFT name. In the 80's and 90's CHRIS CRAFT seemed to have changed their philosophy much in the same ways BOSTON WHALER has recently cahnged theirs. CHRIS CRAFT totally conformed to the norm and produced cheaper less attractive boats. It would appear however that today they have returned to their lineage and sarted to produce a line of boats more suited to thier past. I'm very impressed and hope that the current devaitions at WHALER don't last long. More and more boat companies seem to be using better hardware and more wood accents. I wonder how long BRUNSWICK will take to catch on?
Buckda	posted 02-04-2003 06:53 PM ET (US) George - I couldn't agree more with your synopsis of the rebirth of Chris-Craft. Now that I have my whaler, my next target is a mid-50's Chris-Craft Capri. The new Chris-Craft's are beautiful (and equally expensive). I too was impressed when I first saw them in Jan. 2002 at the Chicago boat show - the 26 Launch is a very pretty boat. We can only hope that Whaler will follow a similar path - the rebirth of the classics would really move some blood - and cash - into the coffers at Brunswick. Perhaps they could offer a "classic" line with retro-styling. That might marry the wants of the masses with the desires of the die-hards.
lhg	posted 02-05-2003 04:47 PM ET (US) There's a glimmer of hope. At a well known BW dealer, among all of the new boats they had on their lot, there were 2 Classic 15 Alerts, 4 Classic 17 Alerts, and a Classic 22 Guardian Dive boat, with removable side hatch, all in recreational white. The 22, incidentally, with an aluminum trailer, Merc 225 4 stroke, 30" transom, Tee Top etc was about $65,000. While I was there, I had them price me a 25 Guardian. Base price was $35,000 list, set up as shown on the website, in grey. Not too bad, I don't think. Add another $10,000 to fit it out recreationally, including gel coat, $18,000 for a pair of carbed 150's, $4000 for a disc brake trailer, and you've got a heck of a heavy duty brand new Classic 25 Whaler for about $70,000. That's a lot less (and a lot more) than a new 270 Outrage. Next time I'm going to find out what the 19 Guardian (Classic 18 outrage) costs.
george nagy	posted 02-05-2003 05:01 PM ET (US) LHG the 19' guardian hull is 23,500. To outfir like a classic would be $5,000 for console and rps. Have you noticed the classics that have appeared in south FL? In the span of 5 min. I passed a classic 25'WD outrage with twin omc's, a classic 22' with a newer merc, and of-course your 25'. Overall not a bad day for classics in the land of the searays. It is too bad that Whaler doesn't yet outfit the classics as classics w/wood and etc... Most buyers will not go through the troubles of putting together a package on thier ow.
Louie Kokinis	posted 02-05-2003 08:28 PM ET (US) George My understanding is that CGP will install teak (or most anything else), for a small fee :) Retro Whaler? Most here seem to love the classics, but Paul and I are the only ones who have ordered a new commercial boat (am I wrong?). I think it’s fair to say that we (all of us here) represent the brand die-hards, yet there are only 2 factory ordered commercial boats in the bunch. Take the used CPD hulls that we know of, and we are up to what 4 boats? It doesn’t say much for new classics demand, and has me thinking that a ‘retro” Whaler would not sell in today’s market. A “little bird” read some of my posts here and called to assure me that if the new hull (post-post classic?) doesn’t have me ordering a new fishing machine, nothing will. I have my doubts but will hold judgment till I drive one. Has anyone here has driven the new hull?
lhg	posted 02-05-2003 08:55 PM ET (US) Louie - the new small classic Alerts in 15 & 17 size are selling very fast, even though they are bare bones. The bigger ones may be a more of a problem, since many don't want to deal with custom rigging and outfitting work. The pricing seems very reasonable lately. Believe me, you won't like the new 24 & 27 Outrages, unless you like a Fountain! Very deep inside, very heavy for their size, and not well suited for fishing. They feel like Sea Rays through and through, with a cramped interior compared to what I am used to. Been in several, but not driven one yet, and don't care to. Not seeing any out on the water, either.
OutrageMan	posted 02-05-2003 09:17 PM ET (US) In northern Door County (Lake Michigan-Wisconsin), the new models are quickly gaining ground on the classics. I have seen only one CPD and it is in a private marina in Egg Harbor. Twin Cities Marine in Two Rivers claims to have sold more Whalers in the last 5 years than they had in the provious 10. And during this time, they have also been selling Grady White. It really seems as though we classics lovers are in a very small minority. As far as th new Chris Craft models go, I was able to spend a good deal of time crawling around 2 of their new runabouts. Very fine workmanship; quality boats. Brian
andygere	posted 02-05-2003 09:39 PM ET (US) From the website, the Chris-Crafts look really nice. A teak cockpit sole in a runabout is unheard of these days, but really sets these boats apart from the crowd. In terms of the low numbers of new CPD classics on this site, I think that may be due to a pretty good inventory of used hulls available for a lot less money. We all know they are well built, and even with some restoration and new power, the "out the door" cost for refurbishing a classic is much less than creating a new one through a CPD order. This does not explain why their are more post classic Whalers here than CPDs, assuming comperable pricing, but I suspect a lot of folks simply don't know the CPDs are available. I also imagine that most of the salesman are only interested in selling what they have on the lot, which are not custom ordered CPD boats.
PMUCCIOLO	posted 02-06-2003 05:57 AM ET (US) OutrageMan and andygere raise valid points. Many boaters don't know that the classic hulls are available to the public through Commercial and Government Products. Also, many of the classic parts (consoles, seats, cushion packages, tops, etc.) are still available; however, it sometimes takes a bit of leg work to locate the vendors and the part numbers. I can see why a dealer would prefer to sell something out of his inventory or order a boat with a limited number of option packages that is in production on the recreational side of Boston Whaler. It's easier. I have had several classic Whaler hulls from Commercial and Government Products outfitted. I must say that the end result provides a level of satisfaction that far outweighs the extra effort required to coordinate the boat's construction and delivery.
Louie Kokinis	posted 02-06-2003 11:07 AM ET (US) Guys you’re all correct that the unwillingness (or ignorance) of some dealers to order vs sell stock on hand contributes to the low recreational sales of commercial boats (I’ve stated the same many times). But, I think there is more to it. I don’t feel there is any complexity involved with ordering a smaller CGP boat. My reasoning is that the smaller boats options are limited, and can be ordered stock with the only option being selection of power (any power). Even if someone wanted to mimic a classic, they would only have to change the color, RPS, rails and cleats. All are simple changes, and the guys at the factory do most the consulting. IMO it’s not difficult unless someone is looking to make an exact replica. I realize that the average consumer doesn’t know these hulls are available. The point I was trying to make is that there are no CGP hulls ordered from people who lurk here. IMO we are not ignorant consumers, very passionate about Whalers, and most know Whalers better than the dealer’s salespeople. I just can’t see any one of us viewing a CGP order anything but fun, yet none have been bought. Larry I’ve also been in the post-post classic (Baha/Fountain type) hull, and like you I don’t think it will suit my fishing style. It should take steep chop at higher speeds, but I want to see how it will perform in steep quartering, beam, and following seas. In the unlikely event I do like the boat, I would only order if CGP builds it for me. * It will have to be one hell of a ride for me to flip the Guardian.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-06-2003 11:21 AM ET (US) Louie, Your comment about no one here ordering a CGP boat is not entirely correct. There are a few lurkers and posters here who have done just that, yourself included. I think you'd be surprised. I think a lack of knowledge of the availability of the Classic hulls in CGP form is one reason as is the small number of knowledgeable dealers, but the the biggest hurdle is a very simple one: CGP boats are just plain expensive. Yes, you get what you pay for, but it still amounts to a lot of dough. Let's face it, talk is cheap. That's why the FORUM is so popular, it costs nothing. The vast majority of the Whalers owned by participants here were bought used at that. While a recreational Whaler may be expensive, a large CGP boat is really expensive.
Louie Kokinis	posted 02-06-2003 11:52 AM ET (US) Tom Sorry about the confusion, I should have been clearer :( Both Paul and I where CGP customers previous to becoming ‘regulars’ here. If anyone has factory ordered one, I must have missed it. Like you I think the CGP hulls cost a bit more, but Larry (and others) have quoted some reasonable pricing for CGP over the years. I’ve been looking for a ‘weekender’ and priced a Vigilant last year – I can’t remember the price offhand, but it wasn’t unreasonable.
lhg	posted 02-06-2003 02:33 PM ET (US) Don't forget that only about 1/4 of Whaler dealers are authorized to sell the CGP boats. I think the problem is that the Dealers don't stock them, or set them up right to be competitively priced. But I think they are. And if they were sitting in the showroom, would sell easily. Maybe BW won't allow this. A 25 Guardian for $75000 or a 270 Outrage for $100,000? (same sized boats, fully rigged and powered). For the same $100,000, I'd rather have a full transom, 10' beam 27 Guardian. I recently discovered one can have a 17 Alert for the same price as a 150 Sport. These are basically the same size boat, but the Alert is longer.(and superior) What does a new 18 Dauntless cost? About $34000? On another thread someone indiated a new 19 Guardian (18 Outrage hull) is about $23,000. Add some more money for recreational rails, color, etc, put a new 150Hp engine, and you're at the same price! How does an 18 Guardian compare to an 18 Dauntless? Are you kidding or what? I'm beginning to think the CGP boats are a great deal, as long as you don't go hog-wild with factory special items. That's where the money comes in. But they are not for the Sea Ray package buyer who is being converted over to a Whaler.
george nagy	posted 02-06-2003 04:28 PM ET (US) Lauderdale Marine in South Florida stocks white 15's and 17's. The white shouldn't be an upcharge since they already make white boats in the rec. line. One thing though, and not to poke at others' boats, but some larger cpd boats are NOT exactly the same as classics. As an example LHG's 25' has a full transom with original style 4 compartment bow while the new cpd hull has only one large compartment. I'm not sure you can get the transom cap with the 3 compartments either. I'm considering purchasing a new classic 15' hull and at the $5,995 price it would be very comparable in price to the new 15'. I will have more freedom to choose options particularly engines. I will admit that most of these participants on this site have purchased used boats but that isn't to say if and when they are ready to move on to another boat they will not buy a cpd.
lhg	posted 02-06-2003 05:30 PM ET (US) George - If you buy that 15 Alert bare hull, I know someone who will sell you a complete, brand new 15 Super Sport mahogany interior for it. It was taken out of a 1989 15 and never used. I think he wants about $800 for it. Incidentally, thanks for not bothering to stop by and say hello when you went by the other day!!! But your Whaler looked great with the new engine on it.
Louie Kokinis	posted 02-07-2003 01:02 AM ET (US) Larry You’re right about the options driving the price up! It’s really tough to be disciplined :( It’s like building or renovating a home; a bit of this, a bit of that, all adds up :) George The Whaler drive models have many configurations and CGP can use the old molds (if they are still available) with commercial lay-up. I had them use a leaning post from a rec model on mine; the full transom with storage was also available. The storage and Bomar hatches are (IMO) better – they are watertight and nothing rattles. The West Coast Fishing Club (Queen Charlotte Islands) has over a dozen CGP 22’s in beige and stainless rails, check out this site. http://www.westcoastfishingclub.com/opostfleet.asp
george nagy	posted 02-07-2003 10:07 AM ET (US) Sorry LHG I thought I would catch you on the way back up the channel. I will be sure to BUG you next time. Thanks for the compliment, I love that motor! I asked my Whaler dealer about desert sand gelcoat and he said that they only offered white or grey on the inner mold and only a handfull of basic colors on the outer mold. Those Canadian fishing boats for sure are NOT white. The point I was originally making in this post was that Chris Craft RETURNED to thier heritage. Whaler has NOT done the same by hiding thier classics behind the cpd lineup. I think that the price of 15' classic would be cheaper if outfitted as apackage rather than a-la-carte. Whaler buys and produces accessories much cheaper than an individual can. If they simply added two bench seats, a console, and a rail like the classic sport they would out-sell the new 150 sport. One more thing about the 15' classic alert I'm looking at, it only is rated for a 40hp if ordered without a console and steering setup.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-07-2003 11:33 AM ET (US) The CGP boats come in Haze grey as the standard color but you can order white, red or Desert Tan for an up charge. You can also order one in some other custom color for an even greater up charge. George makes a good point about the horsepower rating. If you order a boat without the remote steering installed, then you only get a capacity plate with the tiller steer maximum hp rating, usually about half what the remote steer capacity is.
lhg	posted 02-07-2003 02:30 PM ET (US) That didn't used to be the case. I ordered my 1971 16' as a bare hull, and built the Nauset interior. It came with a 100HP plate on it. Besides, I've never let those plates bother me anyway!! Ordering a bare hull Alert 15 with a 40 HP plate on it would not be a legal/insurance problem, since one could easily establish that with console steering it's rated for 70.
Louie Kokinis	posted 02-08-2003 03:09 AM ET (US) They are beige, really, the pictures to them no justice.