Self-bailing Characteristics of older Montauk

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Author Topic:   Self-bailing Characteristics of older Montauk

cc13 posted 02-13-2003 02:58 PM ET (US)
A friend of mine used to have an old 15 foot whaler. He would leave the boat anchored in the surf for days at a time and just wade out and go when he was ready to boat. I seem to recall that he never used a plug in the boat. With the old 1970's Montauk's is a plug necessary or advisable when used as described?
Bigshot posted 02-13-2003 04:51 PM ET (US)
Not if "as described". I keep mine in with a bilge pump just because if you pull yours you will see how much water does come in. This amout will remain constant but I hate fur growing on my floor.
11 footer posted 02-13-2003 06:42 PM ET (US)
I've never done it with a Moutauk, but with a larger boat. You can leave any whaler in the water without he plug. But the boat will turn into a green house. (like I said) I'm not sure how much water a Moutauk will take on, it would differ by how much weight you have on the transom. I know bigshot has a heavy motor. So chances are that his boat will take on more then yours will. It seems to me that a bilge pump is the way to go.
(unless you want a garden) ;)
11
cbean posted 02-13-2003 08:57 PM ET (US)
I have a 15 sport and leave the plug out and only get water in the drain plug well and not on the floor itself. You should consider trying it, even if a little algae grew in there once drained and the sun hits it it is fine.
where2 posted 02-13-2003 10:31 PM ET (US)
And my 15' Sport with a 70Hp Johnson on the transom will have water upto the console, if I leave the plug out and 12 gallons of gas + battery in?
With Bigshot, I keep a pump in the sump, and keep the water on the outside of the hull. After the drain tube corroded through, I now keep the drain plug on the outside too...
cc13 posted 02-13-2003 10:37 PM ET (US)
Thanks, can I assume the answer is that I can leave the plug out and see how low it sits without worrying about causing any damage? If it takes too much water, then insert plug.
jimh posted 02-13-2003 11:16 PM ET (US)
[Changed TOPIC; was "Plug or not?"]
The static trim of an older Montauk, like any Whaler, will depend on the weight of the engine, the battery, the fuel tank and its contents, and other gear in the boat. It can also be affected the the density of the water (varies with salinity and temperature), and the actual hull weight (which may be affected by many variables like water content, layup variations, etc.).
It cannot be reliably predicted exactly how much water will come aboard if the cockpit sump drain plug is removed. Typically, the sump fills and perhaps a slight bit more of the rear of the cockpit fills.
The speed at which marine growth will begin similarly depends on the environment. If you are leaving the boat on the north shore of Lake Superior, you probably don't have a worry about marine growth. If you are leaving it in the Amazon River delta, you'll have more concerns about marine growth.
waterwal posted 02-13-2003 11:19 PM ET (US)
If I may ask, why would you want to leave the plug out?
Once or twice in the beginning of the year when my checklist skills are rusty when off-loading my Montauk at the ramp I'll forget the plug. While it's not a deluge, I would certainly not want that water in there.
captbone posted 02-13-2003 11:48 PM ET (US)
The one way flappers that go over the plug hole work well, but they have the new clear plastic one with the ball in it that works great. You can just 5200 it into place (no holes) And you can still you the plug!
kingfish posted 02-14-2003 08:44 AM ET (US)
You would leave the plug out because then you would not have to concern yourself about the power supply for a bilge pump in the event of rain, if it is not covered. Once the plug is pulled and the boat reaches stasis, any rain (or water from any other source) that falls into the boat goes right back out the un-plugged drain hole and the water level in the boat remains the same. If the boat were effectively covered, a bilge pump or pulling the plug(s) would be a moot argument.
cc13 posted 02-14-2003 09:06 AM ET (US)
The reason I ask is that if you don't trailer it in and out everyday, but leave it anchored in the surf overnight, it seemed that leaving the plug out would be some protection against dragging anchor, getting sideways in a.m. squall, and taking waves over the bow/sides. I don't have a bilge pump. Otherwise, you might find a lot of water standing in the boat.
stagalv posted 02-14-2003 09:43 AM ET (US)
I have thought about this alot for my Montauk. I would been running around for a couple of years without a bilge pump and when I happen to get some water in the plug area I just pull the plug to drain it while I am running -- works great.
What I worry about is what if I take a large wave over the bow or something like that and need to drain the boat but it is too rough for me or a passenger to go back to safely pull the plug for draining? What if I cannot run at speed due to engine problems or rough conditions?
If you dont have a bilge pump you certainly need some other means to bail out the boat. One of those small hand pumps or a flat bailing bucket works fine.
I would already have a bilge pump onboard but I don't want that ugly drain hose going up an over the transom or into the engine well.
So I guess the moral of my story is to have some other means to drain the boat incase you are not running fast enough to drain water with the plug out.
Rex
PSW posted 02-14-2003 10:16 AM ET (US)
I have had a few different whalers and one of the things I do when aquainting myself with the new boat is take the plug out. Usually I take the plug out see how much water comes in then I back up for about 15 seconds in reverse until she is plum full. Then I plow forward and drain or use the bilge or a combo of the two. May sound stupid to some but this last montauk was the first with bilge pump and I wanted to test it to see how well it would worked in various situations. Must say that as nice as it is having a whaler that you know wont sink and can easily be drained with plug out, the pump is very handy and a nice addition. I use both and the pump was installed very nicely and is not in the way at all.
In the situation of leaving on anchor I would leave plug in to keep dry and if in the event that boat is filled with water, before it gets to serious the water will be at a level where it will over flow into well and will just drain out the plugs in there until you arrive to pull the main plug and drain completely.
PSW
cc13 posted 02-14-2003 02:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks everyone!!
Ed Z posted 02-16-2003 10:22 PM ET (US)

When I gone on vacation each year (2 weeks) The Nauset is put in the water and not taken out until vacation is over... I leave the plug in (when I anchor it) and then I just remove it each morning on the first run and the water siphons out once up on plane... In any case, The boat would not sink even if it were filled completely... I guess what you decide to do really is up to you, either way would work fine as long as it wasn't too long between visiting the boat...
T Party posted 02-17-2003 12:04 PM ET (US)
Rex-
It takes precious little forward motion to drain out a boat. You could take waves over the bow all day, but as long as you're going forward with some headway, even if not planing, the boat is going to drain if the plug is out. Even if S.L.O.W. was engaged, I would think the boat would drain. (Non-planing sailboats have through-hull drains, for example). Only if your engine didn't work at all would you be unable to drain the boat out completely by pulling the plug, I would think.
As for me, however, I use a bilge pump and rarely take the plug out at mooring. It has been great to be able to do so on those rare occasions when I leave the boat overnight, uncovered (console cover only), in the rain - pull the plug and drain it out the next morning.
stagalv posted 02-18-2003 10:03 AM ET (US)
How did you run the bilge pump discharge line? Over into the motorwell? Tks, Rex
5 mi E of Milwaukee posted 02-21-2003 02:29 PM ET (US)
Plug in, plug out, bilge pump? I agree with you all!
After two seasons running around on Lake Michigan in my �99 Montauk I installed a bilge pump. In the choppy seas we get sooner or later you�re going to get water over the bow and in those same seas you don�t want to leave the boat to its own devices under power long enough to reach into the sump. Gonna boat on bumpy water, gotta do it; no matter what you think of the aesthetics.
The majority of the time that I leave the boat tied up or anchored (inland waters) I leave the plug in. However, if there�s a prospect of a meaningful rain I pull the plug. Then I deal with the limited amount of water aboard on the next outing by running it dry, using the hand pump, or now, since it�s there, running the electric pump. The reason I now do this is that after one torrential downpour when I had left the plug in there was water in the boat above the level of the shelf in the console. (With the plug in you can accumulate water to at least as high as the top of the splash well.) You can bet that drying all the stuff that lives in the console deprived me of several hours boating.
(Hint for those yet to add their bilge pump: Just in case you hate drilling holes in your FRP, especially in those places that can be expected to be holding water, 3M makes a strong waterproof double sided mounting tape (model 6538?) in their marine line that will hold the mounting bracket of a generic Rule type pump against the side of the sump That tape is pretty hard to come by, but a call to 3M revealed that their construction products �3M Heavy Duty Attachment Adhesive� (model #6010, sku 137481) available at most home centers is the EXACT same stuff in a different package. Despite the fact my boat occasionally goes airborne, the pump hasn�t budged.)
logjamslam posted 02-21-2003 10:25 PM ET (US)
I keep seeing reference made to self bailing characturistics of whalers and water flowing out the back. Under power it works great. Without power it doesn't take too much to get it to roll. Shifting your weight to the side on the way to the stern to get to your plug combined with two or three foot seas will do it in a 17'. Once it does it seems more stable upside down than it is right side up. And if you really want a thrill try towing it.

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Author	Topic: Self-bailing Characteristics of older Montauk
cc13	posted 02-13-2003 02:58 PM ET (US) A friend of mine used to have an old 15 foot whaler. He would leave the boat anchored in the surf for days at a time and just wade out and go when he was ready to boat. I seem to recall that he never used a plug in the boat. With the old 1970's Montauk's is a plug necessary or advisable when used as described?
Bigshot	posted 02-13-2003 04:51 PM ET (US) Not if "as described". I keep mine in with a bilge pump just because if you pull yours you will see how much water does come in. This amout will remain constant but I hate fur growing on my floor.
11 footer	posted 02-13-2003 06:42 PM ET (US) I've never done it with a Moutauk, but with a larger boat. You can leave any whaler in the water without he plug. But the boat will turn into a green house. (like I said) I'm not sure how much water a Moutauk will take on, it would differ by how much weight you have on the transom. I know bigshot has a heavy motor. So chances are that his boat will take on more then yours will. It seems to me that a bilge pump is the way to go. (unless you want a garden) ;) 11
cbean	posted 02-13-2003 08:57 PM ET (US) I have a 15 sport and leave the plug out and only get water in the drain plug well and not on the floor itself. You should consider trying it, even if a little algae grew in there once drained and the sun hits it it is fine.
where2	posted 02-13-2003 10:31 PM ET (US) And my 15' Sport with a 70Hp Johnson on the transom will have water upto the console, if I leave the plug out and 12 gallons of gas + battery in? With Bigshot, I keep a pump in the sump, and keep the water on the outside of the hull. After the drain tube corroded through, I now keep the drain plug on the outside too...
cc13	posted 02-13-2003 10:37 PM ET (US) Thanks, can I assume the answer is that I can leave the plug out and see how low it sits without worrying about causing any damage? If it takes too much water, then insert plug.
jimh	posted 02-13-2003 11:16 PM ET (US) [Changed TOPIC; was "Plug or not?"] The static trim of an older Montauk, like any Whaler, will depend on the weight of the engine, the battery, the fuel tank and its contents, and other gear in the boat. It can also be affected the the density of the water (varies with salinity and temperature), and the actual hull weight (which may be affected by many variables like water content, layup variations, etc.). It cannot be reliably predicted exactly how much water will come aboard if the cockpit sump drain plug is removed. Typically, the sump fills and perhaps a slight bit more of the rear of the cockpit fills. The speed at which marine growth will begin similarly depends on the environment. If you are leaving the boat on the north shore of Lake Superior, you probably don't have a worry about marine growth. If you are leaving it in the Amazon River delta, you'll have more concerns about marine growth.
waterwal	posted 02-13-2003 11:19 PM ET (US) If I may ask, why would you want to leave the plug out? Once or twice in the beginning of the year when my checklist skills are rusty when off-loading my Montauk at the ramp I'll forget the plug. While it's not a deluge, I would certainly not want that water in there.
captbone	posted 02-13-2003 11:48 PM ET (US) The one way flappers that go over the plug hole work well, but they have the new clear plastic one with the ball in it that works great. You can just 5200 it into place (no holes) And you can still you the plug!
kingfish	posted 02-14-2003 08:44 AM ET (US) You would leave the plug out because then you would not have to concern yourself about the power supply for a bilge pump in the event of rain, if it is not covered. Once the plug is pulled and the boat reaches stasis, any rain (or water from any other source) that falls into the boat goes right back out the un-plugged drain hole and the water level in the boat remains the same. If the boat were effectively covered, a bilge pump or pulling the plug(s) would be a moot argument.
cc13	posted 02-14-2003 09:06 AM ET (US) The reason I ask is that if you don't trailer it in and out everyday, but leave it anchored in the surf overnight, it seemed that leaving the plug out would be some protection against dragging anchor, getting sideways in a.m. squall, and taking waves over the bow/sides. I don't have a bilge pump. Otherwise, you might find a lot of water standing in the boat.
stagalv	posted 02-14-2003 09:43 AM ET (US) I have thought about this alot for my Montauk. I would been running around for a couple of years without a bilge pump and when I happen to get some water in the plug area I just pull the plug to drain it while I am running -- works great. What I worry about is what if I take a large wave over the bow or something like that and need to drain the boat but it is too rough for me or a passenger to go back to safely pull the plug for draining? What if I cannot run at speed due to engine problems or rough conditions? If you dont have a bilge pump you certainly need some other means to bail out the boat. One of those small hand pumps or a flat bailing bucket works fine. I would already have a bilge pump onboard but I don't want that ugly drain hose going up an over the transom or into the engine well. So I guess the moral of my story is to have some other means to drain the boat incase you are not running fast enough to drain water with the plug out. Rex
PSW	posted 02-14-2003 10:16 AM ET (US) I have had a few different whalers and one of the things I do when aquainting myself with the new boat is take the plug out. Usually I take the plug out see how much water comes in then I back up for about 15 seconds in reverse until she is plum full. Then I plow forward and drain or use the bilge or a combo of the two. May sound stupid to some but this last montauk was the first with bilge pump and I wanted to test it to see how well it would worked in various situations. Must say that as nice as it is having a whaler that you know wont sink and can easily be drained with plug out, the pump is very handy and a nice addition. I use both and the pump was installed very nicely and is not in the way at all. In the situation of leaving on anchor I would leave plug in to keep dry and if in the event that boat is filled with water, before it gets to serious the water will be at a level where it will over flow into well and will just drain out the plugs in there until you arrive to pull the main plug and drain completely. PSW
cc13	posted 02-14-2003 02:04 PM ET (US) Thanks everyone!!
Ed Z	posted 02-16-2003 10:22 PM ET (US) When I gone on vacation each year (2 weeks) The Nauset is put in the water and not taken out until vacation is over... I leave the plug in (when I anchor it) and then I just remove it each morning on the first run and the water siphons out once up on plane... In any case, The boat would not sink even if it were filled completely... I guess what you decide to do really is up to you, either way would work fine as long as it wasn't too long between visiting the boat...
T Party	posted 02-17-2003 12:04 PM ET (US) Rex- It takes precious little forward motion to drain out a boat. You could take waves over the bow all day, but as long as you're going forward with some headway, even if not planing, the boat is going to drain if the plug is out. Even if S.L.O.W. was engaged, I would think the boat would drain. (Non-planing sailboats have through-hull drains, for example). Only if your engine didn't work at all would you be unable to drain the boat out completely by pulling the plug, I would think. As for me, however, I use a bilge pump and rarely take the plug out at mooring. It has been great to be able to do so on those rare occasions when I leave the boat overnight, uncovered (console cover only), in the rain - pull the plug and drain it out the next morning.
stagalv	posted 02-18-2003 10:03 AM ET (US) How did you run the bilge pump discharge line? Over into the motorwell? Tks, Rex
5 mi E of Milwaukee	posted 02-21-2003 02:29 PM ET (US) Plug in, plug out, bilge pump? I agree with you all! After two seasons running around on Lake Michigan in my �99 Montauk I installed a bilge pump. In the choppy seas we get sooner or later you�re going to get water over the bow and in those same seas you don�t want to leave the boat to its own devices under power long enough to reach into the sump. Gonna boat on bumpy water, gotta do it; no matter what you think of the aesthetics. The majority of the time that I leave the boat tied up or anchored (inland waters) I leave the plug in. However, if there�s a prospect of a meaningful rain I pull the plug. Then I deal with the limited amount of water aboard on the next outing by running it dry, using the hand pump, or now, since it�s there, running the electric pump. The reason I now do this is that after one torrential downpour when I had left the plug in there was water in the boat above the level of the shelf in the console. (With the plug in you can accumulate water to at least as high as the top of the splash well.) You can bet that drying all the stuff that lives in the console deprived me of several hours boating. (Hint for those yet to add their bilge pump: Just in case you hate drilling holes in your FRP, especially in those places that can be expected to be holding water, 3M makes a strong waterproof double sided mounting tape (model 6538?) in their marine line that will hold the mounting bracket of a generic Rule type pump against the side of the sump That tape is pretty hard to come by, but a call to 3M revealed that their construction products �3M Heavy Duty Attachment Adhesive� (model #6010, sku 137481) available at most home centers is the EXACT same stuff in a different package. Despite the fact my boat occasionally goes airborne, the pump hasn�t budged.)
logjamslam	posted 02-21-2003 10:25 PM ET (US) I keep seeing reference made to self bailing characturistics of whalers and water flowing out the back. Under power it works great. Without power it doesn't take too much to get it to roll. Shifting your weight to the side on the way to the stern to get to your plug combined with two or three foot seas will do it in a 17'. Once it does it seems more stable upside down than it is right side up. And if you really want a thrill try towing it.