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Author Topic:   Sunbrella or Top Gun for Mooring Cover

andygere posted 02-17-2003 11:34 PM ET (US)
I'm getting ready to bite the bullet and have a custom mooring cover made for my Outrage 22 Cuddy. Mills doesn't make one for this model, and the T-top requires a custom job anyway. I'm looking for input from anyone with experience with either of these materials. The boat will be kept in the water year round (Northern CA). Top Gun seems like it would be more dimensionally stable and more waterproof, but also heavier and less breathable. Also, any features you like or dislike about your current mooring cover would be appreciated.
BugsyG posted 02-18-2003 06:15 AM ET (US)
My dad and I are doing boat canvas. We do anything basically. But we are located in Sandusky, Ohio.
Sunbrella is the best thing to go with because it breathes. A boat like that has got to breath with the material. Top gun is a vinyl type and does not breath.
JAZZ ;)
lakeman posted 02-18-2003 07:50 AM ET (US)
I had a top gun cover it lasted for 11 years in Florida. I have no Idea about breathing, enough air gets in around the edges to keep it fresh. Draw back it seams heavier than the sumbrella but I think stronger.
kingfish posted 02-18-2003 08:57 AM ET (US)
Andy-
I have used Sunbrella on every sort of boat canvas application and recommend it unconditionally for tops, covers, boots, etc., and I have understood its ability to breathe as per Bugsy's post, to be important.
Having said that, it's hard to argue with something that has lasted for 11 years in the Florida sun.
Not much help, huh? I guess I don't know which is best for your app., I just know I've used Sunbrella and I like it.
kingfish
DJS posted 02-18-2003 02:36 PM ET (US)
andygere,
About one year ago I had a cover made for my 87, 22 Outrage, with T-Top. This isn't a mooring cover in the sense that you're talking about, it was made to keep the weather out of the boat while it sits in my driveway.
I went to the two most recommended custom canvas people in this area (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and they both told me that for what I was going to use the cover for, they would not recommend Sunbrella. Their reason for not recommending Sunbrella, was the porous nature of the fabric. They said that dirt and dust would penetrae the pores of the fabric and cause it to rot earlier. They said if I was willing to wash the cover throughout the year it would last longer, but they felt there were better fabrics for my intended purpose. They said for biminis etc. it was a good fabric, but not for continuous exposure to the elements.
Another thing they advised against was any dark color in this climate; saying a light color would last much longer.
If you have rocket launchers across the back of your T-Top you may be interested in what I did to help protect the cover from the edges of the rod holders. I cut a 2X4 long enough to span the tops of the rod holders and then placed a 1 1/4" dowel in each end of this board. These dowels were placed so they would slide into the outer rod holders. All sharp corners to the 2X4 were rounded off to give the cover a smooth area to lay on. The people that made my cover were really impressed with how this item helped them handle an area that otherwise would take a lot of extra work.
The fabric used for the cover was Aqualon
Just my tcw.
where2 posted 02-18-2003 09:58 PM ET (US)
I haven't experienced any dirt and dust penetration of my Sunbrella cover in the last 3 years of use 365 days a year in South Florida. The boat lives on a floating lift 10" above the water. With the right framework under it, it sheds water like the back of a duck. In the middle of the summer (98% humidity), I get a slight bit of mildew trying to form on the gelcoat of the deck. When this happens, I bring out the cap full of bleach, in a gallon of soapy water, and wipe down the decks.
Using anything less breathable on a boat kept in the water just seems like you'd be asking for mildew growth. Unless you plan to vent the cover, I would stick to sunbrella in a dark color. Dark colors resist mildew by actually drying out, and warming up the air under the cover.
andygere posted 02-19-2003 01:02 AM ET (US)
Thanks for all the great replies so far. I am somewhat worried about mildew using a coated fabric like Top Gun, but 11 years of life sounds great. I have an old Sunbrella cover on my Montauk right now, and I find it's really hard to keep clean, especially from the gulls droppings. I have used a water repellant coating annually, but applying it is a chore I'd just as soon avoid. Any thoughts on the physical weight of Top Gun and similar fabrics in terms of installing and removing the cover? It will be in 2 pieces, and will cover stem to stern, and button around the T-top below the electronics box.
DJS, the tip for dealing with your rocket launchers is slick, a great low-buck solution.
BugsyG posted 02-19-2003 06:12 AM ET (US)
To clean Sunbrella propperly. Use a little bit of woolite and bleach. When your done, rinse it. When you think your done, RINSE IT AGAIN because just to ensure that its good and off of there. Once that is done, then re-apply the water repellant.
JAZZ
lakeman posted 02-19-2003 07:59 AM ET (US)
I did get 11 years of use from topgun, however I never cleaned it, jut the rain, it did get mildewed but never really looked too bad or my lady would have complained. Topgun, so my canvas man says does not stretch but it does change shrink or change slighly especially in cold weather or when not used freqently. My bimmi/suntop was made from topgun when it is cold or has not been up for a while it is hard to get it to snap into place, warm weather, usually less of a problem and this is Florida. Top gun seams basicly water proof.
I have a light colored topgun material on bimmin and I kept it up for about a year after the cover died and it stained with mildue, could be just dirt, i have tried every cleaner, that was suggested and nothing. Doesn't look that bad but I know its there.

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Author	Topic: Sunbrella or Top Gun for Mooring Cover
andygere	posted 02-17-2003 11:34 PM ET (US) I'm getting ready to bite the bullet and have a custom mooring cover made for my Outrage 22 Cuddy. Mills doesn't make one for this model, and the T-top requires a custom job anyway. I'm looking for input from anyone with experience with either of these materials. The boat will be kept in the water year round (Northern CA). Top Gun seems like it would be more dimensionally stable and more waterproof, but also heavier and less breathable. Also, any features you like or dislike about your current mooring cover would be appreciated.
BugsyG	posted 02-18-2003 06:15 AM ET (US) My dad and I are doing boat canvas. We do anything basically. But we are located in Sandusky, Ohio. Sunbrella is the best thing to go with because it breathes. A boat like that has got to breath with the material. Top gun is a vinyl type and does not breath. JAZZ ;)
lakeman	posted 02-18-2003 07:50 AM ET (US) I had a top gun cover it lasted for 11 years in Florida. I have no Idea about breathing, enough air gets in around the edges to keep it fresh. Draw back it seams heavier than the sumbrella but I think stronger.
kingfish	posted 02-18-2003 08:57 AM ET (US) Andy- I have used Sunbrella on every sort of boat canvas application and recommend it unconditionally for tops, covers, boots, etc., and I have understood its ability to breathe as per Bugsy's post, to be important. Having said that, it's hard to argue with something that has lasted for 11 years in the Florida sun. Not much help, huh? I guess I don't know which is best for your app., I just know I've used Sunbrella and I like it. kingfish
DJS	posted 02-18-2003 02:36 PM ET (US) andygere, About one year ago I had a cover made for my 87, 22 Outrage, with T-Top. This isn't a mooring cover in the sense that you're talking about, it was made to keep the weather out of the boat while it sits in my driveway. I went to the two most recommended custom canvas people in this area (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and they both told me that for what I was going to use the cover for, they would not recommend Sunbrella. Their reason for not recommending Sunbrella, was the porous nature of the fabric. They said that dirt and dust would penetrae the pores of the fabric and cause it to rot earlier. They said if I was willing to wash the cover throughout the year it would last longer, but they felt there were better fabrics for my intended purpose. They said for biminis etc. it was a good fabric, but not for continuous exposure to the elements. Another thing they advised against was any dark color in this climate; saying a light color would last much longer. If you have rocket launchers across the back of your T-Top you may be interested in what I did to help protect the cover from the edges of the rod holders. I cut a 2X4 long enough to span the tops of the rod holders and then placed a 1 1/4" dowel in each end of this board. These dowels were placed so they would slide into the outer rod holders. All sharp corners to the 2X4 were rounded off to give the cover a smooth area to lay on. The people that made my cover were really impressed with how this item helped them handle an area that otherwise would take a lot of extra work. The fabric used for the cover was Aqualon Just my tcw.
where2	posted 02-18-2003 09:58 PM ET (US) I haven't experienced any dirt and dust penetration of my Sunbrella cover in the last 3 years of use 365 days a year in South Florida. The boat lives on a floating lift 10" above the water. With the right framework under it, it sheds water like the back of a duck. In the middle of the summer (98% humidity), I get a slight bit of mildew trying to form on the gelcoat of the deck. When this happens, I bring out the cap full of bleach, in a gallon of soapy water, and wipe down the decks. Using anything less breathable on a boat kept in the water just seems like you'd be asking for mildew growth. Unless you plan to vent the cover, I would stick to sunbrella in a dark color. Dark colors resist mildew by actually drying out, and warming up the air under the cover.
andygere	posted 02-19-2003 01:02 AM ET (US) Thanks for all the great replies so far. I am somewhat worried about mildew using a coated fabric like Top Gun, but 11 years of life sounds great. I have an old Sunbrella cover on my Montauk right now, and I find it's really hard to keep clean, especially from the gulls droppings. I have used a water repellant coating annually, but applying it is a chore I'd just as soon avoid. Any thoughts on the physical weight of Top Gun and similar fabrics in terms of installing and removing the cover? It will be in 2 pieces, and will cover stem to stern, and button around the T-top below the electronics box. DJS, the tip for dealing with your rocket launchers is slick, a great low-buck solution.
BugsyG	posted 02-19-2003 06:12 AM ET (US) To clean Sunbrella propperly. Use a little bit of woolite and bleach. When your done, rinse it. When you think your done, RINSE IT AGAIN because just to ensure that its good and off of there. Once that is done, then re-apply the water repellant. JAZZ
lakeman	posted 02-19-2003 07:59 AM ET (US) I did get 11 years of use from topgun, however I never cleaned it, jut the rain, it did get mildewed but never really looked too bad or my lady would have complained. Topgun, so my canvas man says does not stretch but it does change shrink or change slighly especially in cold weather or when not used freqently. My bimmi/suntop was made from topgun when it is cold or has not been up for a while it is hard to get it to snap into place, warm weather, usually less of a problem and this is Florida. Top gun seams basicly water proof. I have a light colored topgun material on bimmin and I kept it up for about a year after the cover died and it stained with mildue, could be just dirt, i have tried every cleaner, that was suggested and nothing. Doesn't look that bad but I know its there.