posted 03-30-2003 01:55 PM ET (US)        

Any thoughts on the 1988 120 Johnsons?

Second, is a 1985 Revenge 25 notched transom with 1994 twin 150 Ocean Runners. No trailer. It was raining so I couldn't go over it too thoroughly but it definitely has waves in the sides toward the stern. Also, that little lip for the brass drain tub in the front is corroded but the area around it looks ok. Finally, the guy has switched different types of trim tabs and there are a few extra holes in the transom that are chalked. Wood door and vinyl are pretty shot. Asking $25,000 through dealer.

Thoughts on approximate worth for the 25?
How do the performance in rough chop of the 22 vs the 25?
Thoughts on waves in side, and 1994 Ocean runners?
Any advice on things to check beside compression?

posted 03-30-2003 04:35 PM ET (US)            

I assume the 25 is a Walk-thru model, although the following page says the walk thrus started in '86:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage46.html

I only looked at one of the earlier 'V-22' Revenges, because I wanted the later style, but the hull looked the same, so I would imagine that the ride might be similar, but since it IS a different model I could be wrong.

Get the bigger boat if you can afford, and trailer it. The 22 is great but the extra 3 feet in the cabin makes a HUGE difference in the feel of the boat, especially if there are more than two people aboard. If you fish remember, you can't follow a fish up to the bow easily, so those extra feet make a big difference.

The 'waves' are in the sides of the 25 as you look down toward the stern? I've seen a number of bigger whalers -- outrages, revenges -- that have these waves. Do a search here, they've been discussed a bit and the consensus was that they don't mean very much, and certainly don't effect the integrity of the hull. My 25 has them as well.

You should assume that you will have to replace the brass drain tubes with either new ones or plastic (another search for you, I did plastic bedded in epoxy, when I did mine I was able to get about a gallon of water out of one that was just as you described.

I would also get a survey, although some here don't agree with this. Kind of self fulfilling, but you don't need a survey if the hull is in good shape, but a surveyor can help you identify a good looking boat that has been abused. (I was lucky to have Tom Clark come by to look at the boat, which was in Seattle -- he and that surveyor really saved me a lot of heartache, and money that day)

The 25 will also ride a little better in any condition and it feels more like a 'big boat' than the 22 -- which you may or may not like.

I have twin 87 150 Johnsons -- they are great motors if they are maintained, but even though mine were taken care of, I blew a head gasket and it cost $3200 to fix the damage because the high temp horn didn't go of -- check those horns!

Based on what Ive seen, that 15K price is a pretty good one for the 22 if it is in decent condition.

I think the 25 may be a little overpriced, but if the engines are good that is a good starting point. If it passes a survey and you can get it for around 20K I would call that a 'near steal.'

You'd be surprised that wood could come up with a little work.

Also, keep in mind that there just aren't that many 25 Revenges out there.

posted 03-30-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)            

A 22-REVENGE could be towed with a "quarter ton" rated truck. although that might be too close to top of its range for really optimum towing.

This factor might mean a big difference in your total cost of ownership.

If you already own a big diesel 3/4-ton truck, then ignore the above.

posted 03-31-2003 09:59 AM ET (US)            

jimh: The Chevy 2500 and Ford F-250 are 3/4 ton trucks.

posted 03-31-2003 12:54 PM ET (US)            

I have a 20 Outrage right now and don't want to move up to a 22 to regret not going bigger. I don't fish much, most take the wife and kids out tubing and cruising around. I live on LI and the bays and sound usually have 2-3 foot chop which makes for some hard riding in my 20.

What I do like about the 22 is the possibility of moving up a bit without spending alot more. But I guess you get what you pay for.

I still think 20K is still high for that 1985 25. I base that on an ad I still have a copy of placed last fall for a 89 25 Rev, 98 250EFI Yam, new Aluminum tandum axle, bimini enclosure, etc. Looked pretty clean in the pics, listed for 24,900.

This current one has no trailer, no bimini enclosure which I would like, 9 year old motors, and while not glaringly trashed it needs a good cosmetic rehab. I supposed most boats this age do.

Any cautions about a 1985 hull holding its value? I know we all love Whalers on this site but I'm always afraid of overpaying for someone elses headache and getting stuck. I think there is a gap sometimes with older boats (perhaps some cars too) between what its worth intrinsically and functionally to the current owner versus what its worth for a prospective buyer to plunk down money with all the potential risks/headaches of older boats with lives in saltwater. Just my thoughts.

posted 03-31-2003 01:51 PM ET (US)            

The 22 may not feel that much bigger than your 20, and the ride might be a little better -- based on what you say, I still say go with the 25 if you can afford it. You'll definately know you are in a bigger boat, and you'll feel a lot better on the sound. I was amazed at the difference (most of my experience before my 25 was in boats between 17 and 20).

As for price, it is a different market now, with the economy so far down, maybe owners will deal a bit more, but last year I didn't find a single good late model (87 and up) 25 for less than around 25K asking, with a number starting at the high 20s. There were a couple of good 22 footers in the 15 to 23K range, but even with older motors, most of these boats seem to hold value pretty good, when you can find them, and owners seemed more inclined to hold the line on price and wait.

The cheapest Revenge was in Wisc. with old Johnson Sea Drives (which required not only replacement, but also transom work or a bracket) and that boat offered at around 14K, I think.

Again, I'd get a survey -- probably cost about $200-300, and is great insurance to prevent the 'headaches' you describe.

Still, there are deals out there. Mostly I'd counsel patience -- it took a long time, but the boat I finally bought (after looking all over the country, almost trucking a couple 2500 miles, etc) was right in my backyard, and was EXACTLY what I wanted. It's easy to 'get the fever' and that's expensive to cure.

That said, boat shopping is an awful lot of fun!

posted 04-02-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)            

The 25 with twins is a much better boat. The the price is unreasonable with that hull defect. With patience you'll find one in the right price range. There was some talk about one in Rhode Island back in February. Does anybody know if that's still out there?

posted 04-03-2003 06:54 PM ET (US)            

Also, there is water in the fuel tank area and the foam that you can see near the edge in that rear inspection port looks pretty soaked. Is this a major issue?

posted 04-04-2003 02:55 PM ET (US)            

Don't know where you are, but when it rains hard here in Socal, my Revenge can leak a little bit of water around the hatches, which ends up there -- if this guy has 'abandoned' the boat, who knows how long rain has been building up there.

I have a bilge pump installed there -- I would assume that this boat has one too, but it isn't working or hooked up.

There is solid glass in that well, and if the plug is in and the tube is intact then the water DIDN'T come from below -- almost certainly from leaky hatch. Also if the boat is on a trailer (like mine was) it may sit more nose down, which means the entire rear deck would drain toward that forward 'bilge' and not to the rear ones near the engine well.

The edge of foam that beds the tank that I see through the removed hatches was wet when I got my boat, and seems to 'attract' moisture via condensation even when the boat is relatively dry -- if I leave the hatches open (under my cover) for a day, it dries right out.

That said, I would really encourage you to have this boat surveyed, and to be willing to walk as this boat doesn't sound like it's been maintained well.

I can't imagine someone showing a boat to a buyer with water in it -- either the guy is clueless or really unlucky, but it doesn't bode well.

That being said, I'd definately use this as a negotiating point, if only to build in a 'cushion' to repair any thru-hulls, pumps, etc that are shot.

From my short experience the design of the fuel tank well is not that great in terms of drainage and many people here feel that the area is 'always' wet. However, not many people seem to be replacing those tanks due to failure, and the few that have pulled up the floors have found a lot of crud, but generally benign conditions:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage70.html

Either way, I'd say this is a sub-20K boat, as is.

posted 04-07-2003 08:14 AM ET (US)            

The boat is at a very small marina and the guy summers in the area and hasn't been out in quite a while. The boat shop is like a mom and pop operation and it just sitting on blocks in the yard.

I've arranged for a demo next Saturday. They only have easy roller trailers and said that is what is been launched and retrieved on each year when they store it on blocks. Definitely sub 20 boat IMO. There are stress cracks there the gunnels rise up to make that front compartment. The plug was in and that is what was holding the water in that front area. Any idea how difficult it is to replace thru hull drains? Cost?