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Author Topic:   2- Stroke Marine Oil ?

JFM posted 06-09-2003 02:06 PM ET (US)
Before I blow up some of my Stihl farm equipment, I would like to know if 2-Stroke marine oil is acceptable for use in these air cooled machines?
I thought I would ask here instead of looking up the specific differences and listening to the Stihl dealer telling me I should only use his brand.
I have quite a bit of 2-stroke marine oil left from my 2-stroke days.
I would also like to know if there is a “shelf” life on marine 2-stroke oil?
Thanks in advance,
Regards, Jay

Bigshot posted 06-09-2003 02:23 PM ET (US)
I am not going to say definately but....i ran oMC 2 stroke in my Yamaha YZ dirt bike for years. 2 stroke is 2 stroke in my book.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-09-2003 02:48 PM ET (US)
The tcw-3 means "two Cyle water" 3.
Why would you even risk burning up an air cooled machine to save $2.00 by running tcw-3 /
The air cooled engine turn far more rpms then water cooled.
Heck, mabey olive oil will work to & wesson is even cheaper yet.
Use what your supposed to use.
Sal
JFM posted 06-09-2003 03:04 PM ET (US)
I won't risk it Sal.
If that's what "W" means, I'll stick to the Stihl brand oil. I'm just tired of looking at and tripping over about 5 gallons of the old stuff.
What about the shelf life? I may run my 1964 Nauset with the 1979 Johnson 100hp 2 stroke in the next few years ;-).
Regards, Jay
raygun posted 06-09-2003 03:10 PM ET (US)
I have to agree with Sal. I have a shed full of STIHL equipment and wouldn't risk it. Who knows what their additives are vs. the outboard oil?
meb posted 06-09-2003 03:21 PM ET (US)
I had some merc 2 stroke oil that was several years old, in the pint containers with seal intact. Ask a mechanic and he said the oil should be ok. Used it in a new 25hp 2 stroke yamaha, and began to lose power. Took the motor back to the dealer whom I have known for years and he found nothing wrong with the motor. I did not suspect the oil at that time. Got a new Whaler 170 with a 2 stroke merc 90hp and I put the old merc oil in one of the six gallon tanks. Had the same problem with the 90 merc, loss of power. Swithed to the other tank with new exxon 2 stroke oil and the problem went away. The only common factor I can see is that the old merc oil was fouling the plugs. I have thrown away the remaining old oil. I think the oil definitely has a shelf life however they do not seem to date stamp the stuff.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-09-2003 11:19 PM ET (US)
Remmeber this, theres tcw-3 at the present, before that was tcw-2, before that was just plain 2 stroke oil.
The reason the oils have changed, is the fuel is not as it was before, with lead, then no lead, then cleaner burning fuel with less lubing ability.
The smartest thing to do if that oil is over 12 years old, [ thats when it changed from tcw-2 to tcw-3 ] is dump it.
It's certainly not worth the worry to use it, but if your the type to not worry, good luck.
Sal
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-09-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)
TCW-3 = Two cycle water cooled, guess they could have put another "C" at the end for cooled.
Sal
Tims_Tub posted 06-10-2003 12:32 AM ET (US)
I burned up an air cooled Yamaha dirt bike (or at least contributed to its demise) by using TC-WII in it years ago.
huladick posted 06-10-2003 12:47 AM ET (US)
I recently had a riding mower serviced at the local Honda dealer. I asked the same question. He said all 2 stroke oil is ok for use in anything that requires it. He said one mfg. might have a preferred blend, but all OK for use.
Cpt Quint posted 06-10-2003 09:38 AM ET (US)
I think anyone who would inquire about a topic such as this is as picky as I am about our motors both on the lake and in the yard. Run amsoil in everything.
Bigshot posted 06-10-2003 11:22 AM ET (US)
My Yamaha was water cooled. Years ago you could run standard engine oil in 2 strokes, I doubt Napa chain saw oil is much different than their outboard but to each his own.
where2 posted 06-10-2003 12:41 PM ET (US)
If you talk to the yamaha dealer, he will tell you to use only his product. If you talk to the Merc dealer, he will tell you only to use his product. Why should the Stilh dealer be any different? All of them make a hefty profit on selling "their blend" of 2stroke oil.
Its amazing that anyone buys any of the Mfg labeled oils. If you bought a Ford, and the Ford dealer said you should only use Ford oil at twice the price of any of the normal brands (Mobil_1, Quaker State, Amsoil, Pennzoil, etc). Would you still buy Ford oil?
Last time I looked, the Walmart 2cycle oil indicated it was good for any 2cycle product. My own use has shown that the shelf life of a closed container of 2cycle oil is inversely related to the frequency that I use my 2stroke toys. If I'm using the Boat and the Chainsaw and the Weedeater more frequently, the gallon of oil doesn't last nearly as long as when I'm not using the toys... Will the number of atoms of anything inside the container change if the cap is not opened? Not unless the atoms are capable of migrating through the wall of the container.
The one that kills me is the "shelf life" on a sealed gallon of drinking water. What exactly does it turn into after the shelf life expires?
lakeman posted 06-10-2003 01:59 PM ET (US)
Had a weedeater 2S and it was dull in performance with regurlar 2S oil. Had a friend dealer who gave me some 2S synthetic oil made for ac engines and it made a world of difference, the motor came alive.
Best I can offer
JFM posted 06-10-2003 03:19 PM ET (US)
With this much conflict, I went to my trusted Kubota / Stihl dealer, John Schreoder, along with my question.
He reported under no condition that I should use 2-stroke TCW-3 water-cooled oil in any of my air-cooled 2-stroke equipment. John went on to explain that the difference was not published on Stihl’s brand of oil, however in his service and training manual it recommended only their brand in their equipment at 50:1 gas to oil mixture. Furthermore it stated that if any other air-cooled 2-stroke oil is used, it should be mixed at 40:1. Also it stated that water-cooled 2-stroke was developed for lower temperature equipment with lower RMP engines. Out of curiosity I asked John what the typical RPM of a chain saw was and to my amazement he said between 13,000 to 15,000 RPM under full throttle. After he told me this, I sheepishly went over to the shelf and picked up another gallon of Stihl 2-stroke oil.
Regards, Jay
P.S. Can you imagine a marine engine going 13,000-15,000 RPM?
Duckin Whalers posted 06-10-2003 03:39 PM ET (US)
My Dad's first step in winterizing the boat was always dumping the 2 cycle mix in the pick-up and lawn tractor. He said it always made the old ford 302 run better. I remember it smoked a little more but, when I was in high school I was always eager to get a free tank of gas. Maybe you could mix it in with the gas of your tow rig if you feel you must get rid of it. I bet it isn't real friendly on fuel injection systems although, the old holley 4 barrel never seemed to mind.
JFM posted 06-10-2003 04:12 PM ET (US)
This contains the oil's standards met, however I have no idea what they mean. http://www.stihlusa.com/accessories/bar_chain/

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Author	Topic: 2- Stroke Marine Oil ?
JFM	posted 06-09-2003 02:06 PM ET (US) Before I blow up some of my Stihl farm equipment, I would like to know if 2-Stroke marine oil is acceptable for use in these air cooled machines? I thought I would ask here instead of looking up the specific differences and listening to the Stihl dealer telling me I should only use his brand. I have quite a bit of 2-stroke marine oil left from my 2-stroke days. I would also like to know if there is a “shelf” life on marine 2-stroke oil? Thanks in advance, Regards, Jay
Bigshot	posted 06-09-2003 02:23 PM ET (US) I am not going to say definately but....i ran oMC 2 stroke in my Yamaha YZ dirt bike for years. 2 stroke is 2 stroke in my book.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-09-2003 02:48 PM ET (US) The tcw-3 means "two Cyle water" 3. Why would you even risk burning up an air cooled machine to save $2.00 by running tcw-3 / The air cooled engine turn far more rpms then water cooled. Heck, mabey olive oil will work to & wesson is even cheaper yet. Use what your supposed to use. Sal
JFM	posted 06-09-2003 03:04 PM ET (US) I won't risk it Sal. If that's what "W" means, I'll stick to the Stihl brand oil. I'm just tired of looking at and tripping over about 5 gallons of the old stuff. What about the shelf life? I may run my 1964 Nauset with the 1979 Johnson 100hp 2 stroke in the next few years ;-). Regards, Jay
raygun	posted 06-09-2003 03:10 PM ET (US) I have to agree with Sal. I have a shed full of STIHL equipment and wouldn't risk it. Who knows what their additives are vs. the outboard oil?
meb	posted 06-09-2003 03:21 PM ET (US) I had some merc 2 stroke oil that was several years old, in the pint containers with seal intact. Ask a mechanic and he said the oil should be ok. Used it in a new 25hp 2 stroke yamaha, and began to lose power. Took the motor back to the dealer whom I have known for years and he found nothing wrong with the motor. I did not suspect the oil at that time. Got a new Whaler 170 with a 2 stroke merc 90hp and I put the old merc oil in one of the six gallon tanks. Had the same problem with the 90 merc, loss of power. Swithed to the other tank with new exxon 2 stroke oil and the problem went away. The only common factor I can see is that the old merc oil was fouling the plugs. I have thrown away the remaining old oil. I think the oil definitely has a shelf life however they do not seem to date stamp the stuff.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-09-2003 11:19 PM ET (US) Remmeber this, theres tcw-3 at the present, before that was tcw-2, before that was just plain 2 stroke oil. The reason the oils have changed, is the fuel is not as it was before, with lead, then no lead, then cleaner burning fuel with less lubing ability. The smartest thing to do if that oil is over 12 years old, [ thats when it changed from tcw-2 to tcw-3 ] is dump it. It's certainly not worth the worry to use it, but if your the type to not worry, good luck. Sal
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-09-2003 11:21 PM ET (US) TCW-3 = Two cycle water cooled, guess they could have put another "C" at the end for cooled. Sal
Tims_Tub	posted 06-10-2003 12:32 AM ET (US) I burned up an air cooled Yamaha dirt bike (or at least contributed to its demise) by using TC-WII in it years ago.
huladick	posted 06-10-2003 12:47 AM ET (US) I recently had a riding mower serviced at the local Honda dealer. I asked the same question. He said all 2 stroke oil is ok for use in anything that requires it. He said one mfg. might have a preferred blend, but all OK for use.
Cpt Quint	posted 06-10-2003 09:38 AM ET (US) I think anyone who would inquire about a topic such as this is as picky as I am about our motors both on the lake and in the yard. Run amsoil in everything.
Bigshot	posted 06-10-2003 11:22 AM ET (US) My Yamaha was water cooled. Years ago you could run standard engine oil in 2 strokes, I doubt Napa chain saw oil is much different than their outboard but to each his own.
where2	posted 06-10-2003 12:41 PM ET (US) If you talk to the yamaha dealer, he will tell you to use only his product. If you talk to the Merc dealer, he will tell you only to use his product. Why should the Stilh dealer be any different? All of them make a hefty profit on selling "their blend" of 2stroke oil. Its amazing that anyone buys any of the Mfg labeled oils. If you bought a Ford, and the Ford dealer said you should only use Ford oil at twice the price of any of the normal brands (Mobil_1, Quaker State, Amsoil, Pennzoil, etc). Would you still buy Ford oil? Last time I looked, the Walmart 2cycle oil indicated it was good for any 2cycle product. My own use has shown that the shelf life of a closed container of 2cycle oil is inversely related to the frequency that I use my 2stroke toys. If I'm using the Boat and the Chainsaw and the Weedeater more frequently, the gallon of oil doesn't last nearly as long as when I'm not using the toys... Will the number of atoms of anything inside the container change if the cap is not opened? Not unless the atoms are capable of migrating through the wall of the container. The one that kills me is the "shelf life" on a sealed gallon of drinking water. What exactly does it turn into after the shelf life expires?
lakeman	posted 06-10-2003 01:59 PM ET (US) Had a weedeater 2S and it was dull in performance with regurlar 2S oil. Had a friend dealer who gave me some 2S synthetic oil made for ac engines and it made a world of difference, the motor came alive. Best I can offer
JFM	posted 06-10-2003 03:19 PM ET (US) With this much conflict, I went to my trusted Kubota / Stihl dealer, John Schreoder, along with my question. He reported under no condition that I should use 2-stroke TCW-3 water-cooled oil in any of my air-cooled 2-stroke equipment. John went on to explain that the difference was not published on Stihl’s brand of oil, however in his service and training manual it recommended only their brand in their equipment at 50:1 gas to oil mixture. Furthermore it stated that if any other air-cooled 2-stroke oil is used, it should be mixed at 40:1. Also it stated that water-cooled 2-stroke was developed for lower temperature equipment with lower RMP engines. Out of curiosity I asked John what the typical RPM of a chain saw was and to my amazement he said between 13,000 to 15,000 RPM under full throttle. After he told me this, I sheepishly went over to the shelf and picked up another gallon of Stihl 2-stroke oil. Regards, Jay P.S. Can you imagine a marine engine going 13,000-15,000 RPM?
Duckin Whalers	posted 06-10-2003 03:39 PM ET (US) My Dad's first step in winterizing the boat was always dumping the 2 cycle mix in the pick-up and lawn tractor. He said it always made the old ford 302 run better. I remember it smoked a little more but, when I was in high school I was always eager to get a free tank of gas. Maybe you could mix it in with the gas of your tow rig if you feel you must get rid of it. I bet it isn't real friendly on fuel injection systems although, the old holley 4 barrel never seemed to mind.
JFM	posted 06-10-2003 04:12 PM ET (US) This contains the oil's standards met, however I have no idea what they mean. http://www.stihlusa.com/accessories/bar_chain/