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Author Topic:   trailer tire size

no glitter posted 07-07-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)
I have an 18 outrage on a single axle trailer. After a pretty severe blowout at around 70 mph, i became concerned that i may need to go to a larger tire and rim and / or dual axle for towing at higher speeds. Am i wrong or should i just slow down?
JBCornwell posted 07-07-2003 07:59 PM ET (US)
Be sure that the tires you are using are at least "C" load rated, better "D", and be sure you have them inflated to the pressure at which the loading is rated.
I used ST175X13C on my Outrage 18 trailer with 50lb pressure and had no problems, even at illegal speeds. GEP now has the same rig and has reported towing it even faster than I did. (EEK!!)
Red sky at night. . .
JB
triblet posted 07-07-2003 08:25 PM ET (US)
What was the tire size, load range, and condition? If it was
a 10" load range A with cord showing, consider yourself lucky.
If it was a 15" load range D and had 5000 miles on it, well,
stuff happens.
And how much does your rig (boat, motor, tailer, gas, tank,
...) weight?
BTW, in California, max legal speed with a trailer is 55 MPH.

Chuck
jimh posted 07-07-2003 10:26 PM ET (US)
The speed limit is the same here in Michigan, and sometimes when hauling back from up north I can drive 350 miles at 55 and never pass a single car. Everybody passes me, including idiots with two jets skies on some wimpy trailer with tiny tires going 85 MPH. Even if I take it up to 60 MPH, I won't pass anyone; everyone is going 70-80, often with rather large trailers attached.
no glitter posted 07-09-2003 02:30 PM ET (US)
thanks for the help. i think what i do have is passenger tires on the trailer. something i never thought to look at.
Gep posted 07-09-2003 03:47 PM ET (US)
JB,
I only went 80mph a little while because I was being pushed along that fast.
I don't recommend it.
Mike
Landlocked posted 07-09-2003 04:31 PM ET (US)
This is an interesting topic.... I can't contribute much but I'd like to add a question to the discussion.
When I had my old outrage 21, The dual trailer came with heavy duty trailer tires made by Goodyear. don't remember the size or model. I do remember that when one had to be replaced it cost me around $115 for a new one.
Last year before heading to the beach, I bought two new tires for the montauk trailer. The shop didn't have trailer tires but recommended a passenger car tire that would fit the rim, had a higher load rating, and were cheaper than what was currently on the trailer. I have noticed that the tires when fully inflated still look a little low. I have also noticed that the boat rides much softer on the trailer now - extra bounce being given by the softer tires.
Since purchasing, I have read here several times that I should only be using tires specifically designed for trailers. In fact I'm much happier with the car tires. Can anyone explain the difference? (Besides cost)
Ll.
Ventura16 posted 07-09-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
Goodyear makes a Special Trailering tire (ST) called the Marathon. The Marathon has greater sidewall strength than passenger car tires to prevent sidewall flexing under load. They are available in various sizes and load ratings. As JB mentioned, you would probably need a load rating of at least "C"...1800 lbs. per tire...for an 18 Outrage. And you would probably be a lot safer to use a load range "D" tire...2500 lbs. per tire. We use 2 load range C Marathons for our Ventura 16 trailer...about 2500 lbs loaded. And we use 4 load range D's on our 5000 lb. Airstream.
Tom
jimh posted 07-09-2003 04:44 PM ET (US)
Probably a tire maker can give you more accurate differences between tires rated for passenger service and tires rated for trailer service, but on aspect that is often mentioned is the stiffness of the sidewalls: the trailer tires have allegedly stiffer sidewalls.
Landlocked posted 07-09-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
I'll do some research on the differences in trailer and car tires and post the results in a new thread. As far as weight, I can't believe that my fully loaded montauk would weigh more than full size sedan. Perhaps there is a difference in forces placed on the tires due to poorer suspension of trailers or to latteral forces of a trailer cornering behind a car.
Ll.
HAPPYJIM posted 07-09-2003 05:41 PM ET (US)
Trailer tires are for trailers.
Car tires are for cars.
Light duty truck tires are for light duty pick-ups.
Heavy duty truck tires are for heavy duty trucks.
If a tire dealer tells you that a car tire is better & cheaper for your trailer, find another tire dealer to buy your trailer tire.
If you have car tires on your trailer and you do any highway driving, go buy trailer tires for your trailer.
Most people would never think of putting a trailer tire on their car.
If all of your trailering is launching at the neighborhood ramp, you can do that on wheelbarrow tires.
Good trailer tires will give you more time for boating & fishing rather than parked on the side of the road wishing that you had good trailer tires instead of those *^%#@!% car tires!
Landlocked posted 07-09-2003 06:13 PM ET (US)
Ok - but why? Can't help but question, its my dad in me. I've seen too many products that say specially formulated for this or designed for that and then you read the label and find out the only difference is the label and the price.
I'll aggree that if you are towing heavy loads you need a tire that can handle it. I'm not sure it matters when you are talking about a 2,000 - 2500lb boat and trailer Combo.
But then again, I'm the guy that swears by penzoil...
Ll.
HAPPYJIM posted 07-09-2003 06:31 PM ET (US)
Car tires have flexible sidewalls for a more comfortable ride.
If you use them on a trailer and need to swerve to avoid a road hazard the trailer will swerve more because of the side wall flexing.
Trailer tires have stiffer sidewalls (ride does not matter)
to lessen swerving.
Look at your tires when backing and really putting a bind (almost jack knive)on the trailer.
If you have car tires on the trailer, it looks like the tire is pushed way out to the side. Almost like the tire can't take it any more.
Car tires are not meant to flex that much.
Trailer tires have more ply's in the sidewall to make it stronger and less flexible.
HAPPYJIM posted 07-09-2003 06:49 PM ET (US)
I can not PROVE that info in writing. I was told by an old tire mechanic that probably has changed thousands and thousands of tires in his life.
I used to run used car tires on my trailers when I first started my business 23 years ago.
I was always in the shop buying another used tire and became friends with him.
He explained to me what the difference was and I never bought car tires for my trailers after that.
He also broke me from buying recaps for the back tires on my trucks too!
Buy the best trailer tires for your trailer.
There is always that chance, that your life could depend on those tires
Landlocked posted 07-09-2003 09:57 PM ET (US)
A convincing argument Happ and it makes sense. I have several utility trailers as well and all came from the manufacturer with car tires on them. I recently hauled several very large red-oak logs to the mill and I noticed the flexing you are describing then. In fact, the tires nearly came off the rims when I was pulling out of the driveway. I was forced to haul the larger logs one at a time.
Weight seems to be the key, I never had experienced this problem before. I still think that there is some threshold of weight where the extra sidewall thickness comes into play.
By the way, I remember now that the tires on my outrage trailer were Marathon's.
LL.
HAPPYJIM posted 07-09-2003 10:34 PM ET (US)
After posting my strong opinion based on hearsay of a friend, I was feeling a little guilty.
Put that with all the ruckus over the best or worst 2 cycle oil on some other threads based on word of mouth knowledge.
I feel a lot better now that I found this...
http://www.championtrailers.com/tire_art.html
Read the whole article, then start saving for replacing those car tires on your trailers!!
HAPPYJIM posted 07-09-2003 10:53 PM ET (US)
Here's one more....with an added bonus of how to torque the lug nuts.
http://shop.easternmarine.com/store/tech_info/trailertires_tech_info.html
My friends look at me funny when they see me with torque wrench in hand tightening almost every nut bigger than a
1/2 inch.

Sal DiMercurio posted 07-09-2003 11:41 PM ET (US)
Many people also do not know that car rims will not work on a trailer even if the lug holes match.
Car rims have the off center hub, where trailer rims are darn near in the middle.
The car rims will hit the fenders if you try & put them on your trailer.
Yes, trailer tires are far stronger then car tires, & car tires should "NEVER " be used on a trailer because they sqirm & are thinner on the side walls..
Sal
Landlocked posted 07-10-2003 10:03 AM ET (US)
Well, you got me... Even though I'm the doubting type - I don't make a habit of arguing when presented with data supporting a differing view. Thanks for the info.
Since I pull my montauk with a very large (and heavy) Bronco, breaking is not a problem. I've had few sway events in response to rapid manuvers but I've always been able to gas my way out of them with the big 351.
I'll take your advice and change but I'm probably not going to rush out and do it tomorrow. Daycare just increased again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ll.
Wet Foot posted 07-10-2003 12:34 PM ET (US)
I just bought a spare trailer tire and wheel for my rig. The tire is a trailer tire and the dealer says the wheel is a "wagon wheel". Is the wheel ok? My boat is an 18 Dauntless.
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-10-2003 05:27 PM ET (US)
If it's not a trailer wheel, it wont work.
Better try it & see it it goes on without hitting the fender.
Sal

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Author	Topic: trailer tire size
no glitter	posted 07-07-2003 07:45 PM ET (US) I have an 18 outrage on a single axle trailer. After a pretty severe blowout at around 70 mph, i became concerned that i may need to go to a larger tire and rim and / or dual axle for towing at higher speeds. Am i wrong or should i just slow down?
JBCornwell	posted 07-07-2003 07:59 PM ET (US) Be sure that the tires you are using are at least "C" load rated, better "D", and be sure you have them inflated to the pressure at which the loading is rated. I used ST175X13C on my Outrage 18 trailer with 50lb pressure and had no problems, even at illegal speeds. GEP now has the same rig and has reported towing it even faster than I did. (EEK!!) Red sky at night. . . JB
triblet	posted 07-07-2003 08:25 PM ET (US) What was the tire size, load range, and condition? If it was a 10" load range A with cord showing, consider yourself lucky. If it was a 15" load range D and had 5000 miles on it, well, stuff happens. And how much does your rig (boat, motor, tailer, gas, tank, ...) weight? BTW, in California, max legal speed with a trailer is 55 MPH. Chuck
jimh	posted 07-07-2003 10:26 PM ET (US) The speed limit is the same here in Michigan, and sometimes when hauling back from up north I can drive 350 miles at 55 and never pass a single car. Everybody passes me, including idiots with two jets skies on some wimpy trailer with tiny tires going 85 MPH. Even if I take it up to 60 MPH, I won't pass anyone; everyone is going 70-80, often with rather large trailers attached.
no glitter	posted 07-09-2003 02:30 PM ET (US) thanks for the help. i think what i do have is passenger tires on the trailer. something i never thought to look at.
Gep	posted 07-09-2003 03:47 PM ET (US) JB, I only went 80mph a little while because I was being pushed along that fast. I don't recommend it. Mike
Landlocked	posted 07-09-2003 04:31 PM ET (US) This is an interesting topic.... I can't contribute much but I'd like to add a question to the discussion. When I had my old outrage 21, The dual trailer came with heavy duty trailer tires made by Goodyear. don't remember the size or model. I do remember that when one had to be replaced it cost me around $115 for a new one. Last year before heading to the beach, I bought two new tires for the montauk trailer. The shop didn't have trailer tires but recommended a passenger car tire that would fit the rim, had a higher load rating, and were cheaper than what was currently on the trailer. I have noticed that the tires when fully inflated still look a little low. I have also noticed that the boat rides much softer on the trailer now - extra bounce being given by the softer tires. Since purchasing, I have read here several times that I should only be using tires specifically designed for trailers. In fact I'm much happier with the car tires. Can anyone explain the difference? (Besides cost) Ll.
Ventura16	posted 07-09-2003 04:42 PM ET (US) Goodyear makes a Special Trailering tire (ST) called the Marathon. The Marathon has greater sidewall strength than passenger car tires to prevent sidewall flexing under load. They are available in various sizes and load ratings. As JB mentioned, you would probably need a load rating of at least "C"...1800 lbs. per tire...for an 18 Outrage. And you would probably be a lot safer to use a load range "D" tire...2500 lbs. per tire. We use 2 load range C Marathons for our Ventura 16 trailer...about 2500 lbs loaded. And we use 4 load range D's on our 5000 lb. Airstream. Tom
jimh	posted 07-09-2003 04:44 PM ET (US) Probably a tire maker can give you more accurate differences between tires rated for passenger service and tires rated for trailer service, but on aspect that is often mentioned is the stiffness of the sidewalls: the trailer tires have allegedly stiffer sidewalls.
Landlocked	posted 07-09-2003 05:33 PM ET (US) I'll do some research on the differences in trailer and car tires and post the results in a new thread. As far as weight, I can't believe that my fully loaded montauk would weigh more than full size sedan. Perhaps there is a difference in forces placed on the tires due to poorer suspension of trailers or to latteral forces of a trailer cornering behind a car. Ll.
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-09-2003 05:41 PM ET (US) Trailer tires are for trailers. Car tires are for cars. Light duty truck tires are for light duty pick-ups. Heavy duty truck tires are for heavy duty trucks. If a tire dealer tells you that a car tire is better & cheaper for your trailer, find another tire dealer to buy your trailer tire. If you have car tires on your trailer and you do any highway driving, go buy trailer tires for your trailer. Most people would never think of putting a trailer tire on their car. If all of your trailering is launching at the neighborhood ramp, you can do that on wheelbarrow tires. Good trailer tires will give you more time for boating & fishing rather than parked on the side of the road wishing that you had good trailer tires instead of those *^%#@!% car tires!
Landlocked	posted 07-09-2003 06:13 PM ET (US) Ok - but why? Can't help but question, its my dad in me. I've seen too many products that say specially formulated for this or designed for that and then you read the label and find out the only difference is the label and the price. I'll aggree that if you are towing heavy loads you need a tire that can handle it. I'm not sure it matters when you are talking about a 2,000 - 2500lb boat and trailer Combo. But then again, I'm the guy that swears by penzoil... Ll.
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-09-2003 06:31 PM ET (US) Car tires have flexible sidewalls for a more comfortable ride. If you use them on a trailer and need to swerve to avoid a road hazard the trailer will swerve more because of the side wall flexing. Trailer tires have stiffer sidewalls (ride does not matter) to lessen swerving. Look at your tires when backing and really putting a bind (almost jack knive)on the trailer. If you have car tires on the trailer, it looks like the tire is pushed way out to the side. Almost like the tire can't take it any more. Car tires are not meant to flex that much. Trailer tires have more ply's in the sidewall to make it stronger and less flexible.
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-09-2003 06:49 PM ET (US) I can not PROVE that info in writing. I was told by an old tire mechanic that probably has changed thousands and thousands of tires in his life. I used to run used car tires on my trailers when I first started my business 23 years ago. I was always in the shop buying another used tire and became friends with him. He explained to me what the difference was and I never bought car tires for my trailers after that. He also broke me from buying recaps for the back tires on my trucks too! Buy the best trailer tires for your trailer. There is always that chance, that your life could depend on those tires
Landlocked	posted 07-09-2003 09:57 PM ET (US) A convincing argument Happ and it makes sense. I have several utility trailers as well and all came from the manufacturer with car tires on them. I recently hauled several very large red-oak logs to the mill and I noticed the flexing you are describing then. In fact, the tires nearly came off the rims when I was pulling out of the driveway. I was forced to haul the larger logs one at a time. Weight seems to be the key, I never had experienced this problem before. I still think that there is some threshold of weight where the extra sidewall thickness comes into play. By the way, I remember now that the tires on my outrage trailer were Marathon's. LL.
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-09-2003 10:34 PM ET (US) After posting my strong opinion based on hearsay of a friend, I was feeling a little guilty. Put that with all the ruckus over the best or worst 2 cycle oil on some other threads based on word of mouth knowledge. I feel a lot better now that I found this... http://www.championtrailers.com/tire_art.html Read the whole article, then start saving for replacing those car tires on your trailers!!
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-09-2003 10:53 PM ET (US) Here's one more....with an added bonus of how to torque the lug nuts. http://shop.easternmarine.com/store/tech_info/trailertires_tech_info.html My friends look at me funny when they see me with torque wrench in hand tightening almost every nut bigger than a 1/2 inch.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-09-2003 11:41 PM ET (US) Many people also do not know that car rims will not work on a trailer even if the lug holes match. Car rims have the off center hub, where trailer rims are darn near in the middle. The car rims will hit the fenders if you try & put them on your trailer. Yes, trailer tires are far stronger then car tires, & car tires should "NEVER " be used on a trailer because they sqirm & are thinner on the side walls.. Sal
Landlocked	posted 07-10-2003 10:03 AM ET (US) Well, you got me... Even though I'm the doubting type - I don't make a habit of arguing when presented with data supporting a differing view. Thanks for the info. Since I pull my montauk with a very large (and heavy) Bronco, breaking is not a problem. I've had few sway events in response to rapid manuvers but I've always been able to gas my way out of them with the big 351. I'll take your advice and change but I'm probably not going to rush out and do it tomorrow. Daycare just increased again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ll.
Wet Foot	posted 07-10-2003 12:34 PM ET (US) I just bought a spare trailer tire and wheel for my rig. The tire is a trailer tire and the dealer says the wheel is a "wagon wheel". Is the wheel ok? My boat is an 18 Dauntless.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-10-2003 05:27 PM ET (US) If it's not a trailer wheel, it wont work. Better try it & see it it goes on without hitting the fender. Sal