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Author Topic:   Self-Installed Engines--No Warranty?

litnin posted 08-06-2003 06:57 AM ET (US)
Was considering buying a Johnson 90 2s from Ed's Marine Superstore and installing it myself. As the owner of a few older vehicles, I NEVER have had to take them to anyone for any type of repair. I always perform my own repairs for cost reasons, sure, but I also am rarely satisfied with the shoddy and careless work by others. Not a perfectionist but like it to be done right, so I do it myself.
Getting to the point, I wonder if the warranty is good if you install yourself and about the dealer "retribution" thing. If I have a problem and take it to a dealer for warranty work, will I have to listen to, " We don't service what we don't sell."
Basically, I like doing things myself,like saving money and don't have to deal with the disappointment of sorry workmanship. Anyone have experience on this one? Chris
whalertim posted 08-06-2003 07:07 AM ET (US)
Chris,
I feel the same about doing my own work allot of times, because of the same reasons. I was told that Johnson would not do warranty work if the engine was not installed by a dealer. Is the true? I dont know. Never been in that situation. If this is true for Johnson, then I would think it is true for other manufactures as well. Maybe some of the other guys could shed some light on this.
tim
HAPPYJIM posted 08-06-2003 07:08 AM ET (US)
I feel the same way.
If I do it myself I never wonder if the mount bolts were torqued or if they were just twisted on until it wouldn't turn anymore. Good point on the warranty retribution thing.
When my engine needs replacing, I'll do it myself.
jimh posted 08-06-2003 07:35 AM ET (US)
I'd read the printed warranty information that comes with the product. That is what determines the coverage of the warranty for that product.
If you would like to read about the federal laws that apply to warranty coverage, I would put more faith in the Federal Trade Commission's website than anything you might find elsewhere.
See:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
I, too, prefer to as much of the repair and maintenance work myself on my boat. It is part of the total boating experience.
jimh posted 08-06-2003 07:41 AM ET (US)
Here is a brief quote from the website cited above:
"Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty."
It would seem reasonable to categorize the service of installing a warranted motor by the dealer/seller as a tie-in sale. This is explicitly prohibited.
Clark Roberts posted 08-06-2003 07:54 AM ET (US)
I buy and install my engines and get full factory warranty by sending in the warranty registration card packed with engine. It helps to have a local dealer (who will be happy to oblige you, since credit for sale would go to that dealer) file the warranty registration for you. Main thing is to submit the warranty registration card otherwise ????Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
jws posted 08-06-2003 09:41 AM ET (US)
Interesting topic. Last new outboard engine I bought was a 50 Honda in 1996. Bought it local and hung it myself and it was never a problem with the dealer or the warranty. I don't really think he wanted to mount it. I almost bought a new Suzuki 70 4 stroke when they first came out. Then I found out their fanatastic 3 year warranty was a "declining" warranty and some of the early on service work had to be done by the dealer or warranty was void. I know the 3 year warranty has changed with Suzuki but before I buy ANY outboard again I want it crystal clear who can mount it, who can do the service work and what required service parts and labor cost. I'll get it in writing and add that onto the orignal "cost" to make the buy decision.

Had two neighbors buy new engines recently. One bought a 200 HPDI Yamaha locally and hung it himself. He paid the dealer $150 to come out and check the installation for his warranty. Other neighbor bought a new 90 Yamaha 4 stroke. He paid the dealer top dollar for the engine and installation. Guess what? They didn't even caulk the lower bolts which were below the waterline and he had a steady trickle of water into the boat. His boat is an old Kevlar Hewes flats skiff which isn't self bailing and has no motor well.
I feel the same as many. My primary reason for working on my own autos & boats is getting it done right and the convenience of not hearing "park it over there and we'll get to it when we can". Easier to just do it yourself. Not to mention return trips to get it done right, or the aggrevation or the attitude of many "service" people.
raygun posted 08-06-2003 11:07 AM ET (US)
Last year when I was shopping for my Johnson 90, Bombardier customer service told me over the phone that I could do the install myself and still have the warranty. Ed's wouldn't ship me the motor however, citing Bombardier sales guidelines. Seaway Marine here in Seattle would sell it to me in the box, but couldn't get it my limited time frame, a dealer in Oregon could, but wouldn't sell it in the box.
where2 posted 08-06-2003 05:20 PM ET (US)
My dad and I hung my dad's '02 Yamaha 50Hp High Thrust 4-Stroke. The fun part about that one is that the hull it is on is NOT trailerable! It's a 31' Houseboat with a 12' Beam! We hung it at the house, and the dealer never made a fuss about selling it to him in a crate. he even bought it at a "boat show" to get the extra warranty coverage they toss in as an incentive to "buy now".
Talk about warranty service challenges: At this point, he's got 100+- hours on it and it's time to take it for it's 100 hour checkup. That means, we have to PULL the engine and lug it to them! (since one of the things to be done is changing the lower unit oil... Can't do that with it hung on the boat in the water!)
I'm amazed if Bomb dealers/Bomb HQ is so stuck on having their dealers mount stuff. If that's the case, just jack up the price $400 and sell it as "Free instalation".
TightPenny posted 08-06-2003 06:48 PM ET (US)
I installed my 2001 90hp Johnson in my garage.
I had a warranty problem, and it was taken care of by a dealer who did not even sell me the engine.
I hope that anwers your question.
Go ahead and do it yourself. It isn't rocket science, and there is very little that you can screw up, short of dropping the engine and breaking something.
jstachowiak posted 08-06-2003 07:52 PM ET (US)
I believe you do not have to send the warranty card in either, by law. The warranty card only gives them marketing info.
Dick posted 08-06-2003 09:33 PM ET (US)
Without the motor registered to you at the manufacturer you may have no warranty or a shortened one. The motor can be registered by the selling dealer on line or by mailing in the card, you can register it by mailing in the card. The registration is not a marketing a marketing tool. It is used to determine the warranty period.
Rough example:
Motor was shipped to the dealer 1-01-03
You bought it 8-01-03 and it wasn't registered
The manufacturer will start the warranty from the ship date, you loose 7 months warranty.
As a certified Mercury, Bombardier and Volvo shop I, as well as any other certified shop, has the ability to register any motor brought in for service that shows up as un registered. In some cases the date of sale has been approved as the date brought in for service. Registration is important to track problems with an engine.
Dick
Whalerdan posted 08-07-2003 01:53 AM ET (US)
If I have a receipt, I think that would pretty much tell when the warranty period started. If it went to court I think the judge would agree.
gvisko posted 08-07-2003 07:41 AM ET (US)
As we speak my new 150 johnson is having her 20 service by
a autorized bomb dealer which was a real hassle to find one and have it done. I could have did all this work myself or
had my marina do it but they said it would void the
warrenty if they did not do it by them . gvisko
ratherwhalering posted 08-07-2003 02:18 PM ET (US)
Just a tip regarding dealers. There are several Mcgregor (a sailboat with a 50-70hp outboard) dealers here in California that are also certified johnson/yamaha dealers. They are usually happy to match "others" prices and/or take delivery of an outboard from a retail outfit that will only ship to a "dealer", for a nominal price.
Bigshot posted 08-07-2003 02:59 PM ET (US)
In the auto industry there is a LAW called the Magnusson Moss Act of 1982 that states clearly if a dealer tells you THEY("they" meaning say Mercedes) has to do the service work or use their products only or warranty may/will be void, they will be sued. Very hard to prove they said it but usually compensation is they pay for the service($49 oil change, etc). I do not think the boat industry is any different. What dealers say and what is the truth are very often far apart.
To be on the safe side I always have my 20 hour services done by the dealer, nothing else.
To sum this up....do I have to have the dealer install my 9.9hp or my warranty is void?
I do think that if for SOME reason the warranty was questionable and they state the failure was due to your installation and could PROVE it, you are beat. What comes to mind is a hydraulic jack plate and you raise the engine too high and blow it up from low water pressure, etc.
jimh posted 08-07-2003 07:20 PM ET (US)
Most warranty offers provide the manufacturer with an escape clause if the product is used improperly.
The link I provided above points to the FTC's website that explains the Magnuson-Moss Act. It applies to all consumer products, and is in no way limited to automobiles.
Dick posted 08-07-2003 09:32 PM ET (US)
I have no problem with home installation nor do I have a problem with most aftermarket parts. Some are even better than OEM and many are off the same production line in a different package.
The only thing I can't understand in this thread is the red neck attitude that if you register your motor big brother will be watching you.
Dick
Whalerdan posted 08-08-2003 03:30 AM ET (US)

Personally, my reservation about registration is not that big brother is watching. I see it as a hassle that is not necessary. They'll sell your name to some marketing people and you'll get a bunch of junk mail and calls you don't want.
litnin posted 08-08-2003 05:48 AM ET (US)
The problems arise when, for example, competent Charlie drives one stste away to get good pricing on his new engine because the nearby dealers seem to want way too much for a new engine and installation. Charlie figures that he can install the engine and likes the idea of doing it himself anyway.
Charlie takes the drive and little does Charlie know that he has gotten a bum engine, (you may substitute any other owner installed item other than engine), so Charlie brings his boat with new engine to a dealer and he says, " where did you buy the engine?" Charlie replies that he purchased it from Billy Bob's Discount Marine and installed it himself. (Info probably on warranty form anyway.)
Red flags go up and the dealer says "take it back to Billy Bob's".
My point is that Charlie might do a bang up job on installation of the engine and if the engine has problems, Charlie has a real problem. There are risks associated with purchasing items such as this from far away. Does Charlie remove his engine and ship it back or haul his boat to the other state and get a hotel room while Billy Bob's diagnoses his problem?
Sounds too risky for me. Probably best to pay the extreme pricing and let the almost local dealer do the install as much as I hate the thought of that. This problem doesn't exist with new autos, buy it to save money at Billy Bob's Discount Ford and still ANY Ford dealer WILL perform warranty work without question or complaint.
Larry, if you drive to Florida and get a new Continental trailer, drive it back up north, and there is a BIG problem with it, what would you do? Chris
Dick posted 08-08-2003 09:45 AM ET (US)
litnin
I like your example and am going to take a step in another direction with it.
Charlie brings his sick motor to me and admits he bought it from Billy Bob's Marine. I contact the manufacturer for warranty authorization, if approved they pay the bill if not Charlie pays. In either case I get paid for the work performed and Charlie is happy because he didn't have to go back to Billy Bob's. Charlie is now going to tell all of his friends how well he was taken care of at our shop. I sure like that kind of word of mouth advertising rather than the kind I would get if I had turned him away.
Dick
John O posted 08-08-2003 11:07 AM ET (US)
I did purchase my motor out of state. I bought a 2001 Merc 2 stroke 75hp new for $3800 in Fla. Most local shops wanted $5400.I had it installed by the marina that I keep the boat at. They are an authorized Mercury shop that chooses not to sell motors do to many factors one being money tied up in inventory. They welcome the work.
They were more than happy to do the job and sell me all the rigging that went with the Merc as I was converting from a Johnson. I supplied the Morse control and cables. They sold me the rest. When the owner handed me the bill a month after the job was done and the boat was in the water, I handed him cash on the spot. He said " I wish all my customers paid so quickly". I replied " Just remember me when I need some work done in the heat of the season". The bottom line is any authorized dealer CAN do the work. Whether they WILL or not depends on how the customer treats them. I happen to be satisfied with the cost of the install and would not feel comfortable doing it my self. I did remove the old motor and mount the Merc to trailer it down to the shop.
I plan on keeping my boat at this marina for many years and hope a trusting long term relationship will benefit both parties.
Bigshot posted 08-08-2003 12:08 PM ET (US)
This is getting redundant. If a boat dealer tells you something that is different than what a car dealer would do....walk away. If you still are not sure....call Bombardier, can you spare the $1 to call Canada? Boat dealers just like car dealers can be scumbags. They can also be like Dick and do it the right way. If I buy a boat at my local dealer and get a 5 year warranty and move to another town or state, don't ya think I could find a dealer to do warranty work on it.....they do get paid ya know. How many people have warranty work done(non optimax/ficht owners)? Please people, all I ask is that you think about it before you accept it as truth. If you want to pay $100 less than MSRP because the local dealer will treat you right, that is your perogative. If you want to save a couple grand and shop around, I applaud you. If you want to save even more $$ and install it yourself, I will stand up and applaud. I help people make or retain their wealth for a living, I hate to see people waste their money because the local stealership scares them into it. Don't be a victim, do the research.
Thanks for pointing out the Magnuson-Moss Jim....I remember it from my college days but have not read it in a while nor remebered how to spell it.
Bigshot posted 08-08-2003 12:14 PM ET (US)
Here it is Jim:
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.
While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.
Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.
litnin posted 08-08-2003 01:01 PM ET (US)
Bigshot,
I did call Bomb. They never returned the call. Chris
jimh posted 08-08-2003 07:11 PM ET (US)
In the real world there is what the law says and there is how the real world operates. If you go out to dinner at a nice restaurant and never leave a tip, don't expect the wait staff to treat you quite a nicely as someone who leaves a tip of 20-percent or more with every meal.
In the authorized dealer repair business, there are often variable rates of compensation for the dealer from the manufacturer. The dealer may not get the full shop rate. Say he normally charges $70/hour for his shop labor; the warranty work may be repaid at a lower rate.
If a dealer has a yard full of non-warranty work that he can charge at full shop rate and also make a profit on all the parts, he may prefer to do that work instead of performing the warranty work for which he will make a lower labor rate and probably no profit on the parts.
Throw in the factor that he is looking at some guy he's never seen before who went 500 miles to save a few bucks and bought the motor from another dealer. You can see that this situation might not be the one where you are likely to be put first in line.
ducktwin posted 08-08-2003 07:54 PM ET (US)
Ditto, jimh.
The dealer cannot refuse you, however he can make it very inconvenient.
I get the distinct feeling that many on this board have little idea of how the real business world works.
Business is done on relationships. Business people do not like to have things or people forced upon them. As soon as you get "in someone's face" demanding service, that someone has mentally put you at the back of the line.
The old example of you taking a steak into Ruth's Chris Steakhouse to have them cook it for you applies here.

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Author	Topic: Self-Installed Engines--No Warranty?
litnin	posted 08-06-2003 06:57 AM ET (US) Was considering buying a Johnson 90 2s from Ed's Marine Superstore and installing it myself. As the owner of a few older vehicles, I NEVER have had to take them to anyone for any type of repair. I always perform my own repairs for cost reasons, sure, but I also am rarely satisfied with the shoddy and careless work by others. Not a perfectionist but like it to be done right, so I do it myself. Getting to the point, I wonder if the warranty is good if you install yourself and about the dealer "retribution" thing. If I have a problem and take it to a dealer for warranty work, will I have to listen to, " We don't service what we don't sell." Basically, I like doing things myself,like saving money and don't have to deal with the disappointment of sorry workmanship. Anyone have experience on this one? Chris
whalertim	posted 08-06-2003 07:07 AM ET (US) Chris, I feel the same about doing my own work allot of times, because of the same reasons. I was told that Johnson would not do warranty work if the engine was not installed by a dealer. Is the true? I dont know. Never been in that situation. If this is true for Johnson, then I would think it is true for other manufactures as well. Maybe some of the other guys could shed some light on this. tim
HAPPYJIM	posted 08-06-2003 07:08 AM ET (US) I feel the same way. If I do it myself I never wonder if the mount bolts were torqued or if they were just twisted on until it wouldn't turn anymore. Good point on the warranty retribution thing. When my engine needs replacing, I'll do it myself.
jimh	posted 08-06-2003 07:35 AM ET (US) I'd read the printed warranty information that comes with the product. That is what determines the coverage of the warranty for that product. If you would like to read about the federal laws that apply to warranty coverage, I would put more faith in the Federal Trade Commission's website than anything you might find elsewhere. See: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm I, too, prefer to as much of the repair and maintenance work myself on my boat. It is part of the total boating experience.
jimh	posted 08-06-2003 07:41 AM ET (US) Here is a brief quote from the website cited above: "Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty." It would seem reasonable to categorize the service of installing a warranted motor by the dealer/seller as a tie-in sale. This is explicitly prohibited.
Clark Roberts	posted 08-06-2003 07:54 AM ET (US) I buy and install my engines and get full factory warranty by sending in the warranty registration card packed with engine. It helps to have a local dealer (who will be happy to oblige you, since credit for sale would go to that dealer) file the warranty registration for you. Main thing is to submit the warranty registration card otherwise ????Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
jws	posted 08-06-2003 09:41 AM ET (US) Interesting topic. Last new outboard engine I bought was a 50 Honda in 1996. Bought it local and hung it myself and it was never a problem with the dealer or the warranty. I don't really think he wanted to mount it. I almost bought a new Suzuki 70 4 stroke when they first came out. Then I found out their fanatastic 3 year warranty was a "declining" warranty and some of the early on service work had to be done by the dealer or warranty was void. I know the 3 year warranty has changed with Suzuki but before I buy ANY outboard again I want it crystal clear who can mount it, who can do the service work and what required service parts and labor cost. I'll get it in writing and add that onto the orignal "cost" to make the buy decision. Had two neighbors buy new engines recently. One bought a 200 HPDI Yamaha locally and hung it himself. He paid the dealer $150 to come out and check the installation for his warranty. Other neighbor bought a new 90 Yamaha 4 stroke. He paid the dealer top dollar for the engine and installation. Guess what? They didn't even caulk the lower bolts which were below the waterline and he had a steady trickle of water into the boat. His boat is an old Kevlar Hewes flats skiff which isn't self bailing and has no motor well. I feel the same as many. My primary reason for working on my own autos & boats is getting it done right and the convenience of not hearing "park it over there and we'll get to it when we can". Easier to just do it yourself. Not to mention return trips to get it done right, or the aggrevation or the attitude of many "service" people.
raygun	posted 08-06-2003 11:07 AM ET (US) Last year when I was shopping for my Johnson 90, Bombardier customer service told me over the phone that I could do the install myself and still have the warranty. Ed's wouldn't ship me the motor however, citing Bombardier sales guidelines. Seaway Marine here in Seattle would sell it to me in the box, but couldn't get it my limited time frame, a dealer in Oregon could, but wouldn't sell it in the box.
where2	posted 08-06-2003 05:20 PM ET (US) My dad and I hung my dad's '02 Yamaha 50Hp High Thrust 4-Stroke. The fun part about that one is that the hull it is on is NOT trailerable! It's a 31' Houseboat with a 12' Beam! We hung it at the house, and the dealer never made a fuss about selling it to him in a crate. he even bought it at a "boat show" to get the extra warranty coverage they toss in as an incentive to "buy now". Talk about warranty service challenges: At this point, he's got 100+- hours on it and it's time to take it for it's 100 hour checkup. That means, we have to PULL the engine and lug it to them! (since one of the things to be done is changing the lower unit oil... Can't do that with it hung on the boat in the water!) I'm amazed if Bomb dealers/Bomb HQ is so stuck on having their dealers mount stuff. If that's the case, just jack up the price $400 and sell it as "Free instalation".
TightPenny	posted 08-06-2003 06:48 PM ET (US) I installed my 2001 90hp Johnson in my garage. I had a warranty problem, and it was taken care of by a dealer who did not even sell me the engine. I hope that anwers your question. Go ahead and do it yourself. It isn't rocket science, and there is very little that you can screw up, short of dropping the engine and breaking something.
jstachowiak	posted 08-06-2003 07:52 PM ET (US) I believe you do not have to send the warranty card in either, by law. The warranty card only gives them marketing info.
Dick	posted 08-06-2003 09:33 PM ET (US) Without the motor registered to you at the manufacturer you may have no warranty or a shortened one. The motor can be registered by the selling dealer on line or by mailing in the card, you can register it by mailing in the card. The registration is not a marketing a marketing tool. It is used to determine the warranty period. Rough example: Motor was shipped to the dealer 1-01-03 You bought it 8-01-03 and it wasn't registered The manufacturer will start the warranty from the ship date, you loose 7 months warranty. As a certified Mercury, Bombardier and Volvo shop I, as well as any other certified shop, has the ability to register any motor brought in for service that shows up as un registered. In some cases the date of sale has been approved as the date brought in for service. Registration is important to track problems with an engine. Dick
Whalerdan	posted 08-07-2003 01:53 AM ET (US) If I have a receipt, I think that would pretty much tell when the warranty period started. If it went to court I think the judge would agree.
gvisko	posted 08-07-2003 07:41 AM ET (US) As we speak my new 150 johnson is having her 20 service by a autorized bomb dealer which was a real hassle to find one and have it done. I could have did all this work myself or had my marina do it but they said it would void the warrenty if they did not do it by them . gvisko
ratherwhalering	posted 08-07-2003 02:18 PM ET (US) Just a tip regarding dealers. There are several Mcgregor (a sailboat with a 50-70hp outboard) dealers here in California that are also certified johnson/yamaha dealers. They are usually happy to match "others" prices and/or take delivery of an outboard from a retail outfit that will only ship to a "dealer", for a nominal price.
Bigshot	posted 08-07-2003 02:59 PM ET (US) In the auto industry there is a LAW called the Magnusson Moss Act of 1982 that states clearly if a dealer tells you THEY("they" meaning say Mercedes) has to do the service work or use their products only or warranty may/will be void, they will be sued. Very hard to prove they said it but usually compensation is they pay for the service($49 oil change, etc). I do not think the boat industry is any different. What dealers say and what is the truth are very often far apart. To be on the safe side I always have my 20 hour services done by the dealer, nothing else. To sum this up....do I have to have the dealer install my 9.9hp or my warranty is void? I do think that if for SOME reason the warranty was questionable and they state the failure was due to your installation and could PROVE it, you are beat. What comes to mind is a hydraulic jack plate and you raise the engine too high and blow it up from low water pressure, etc.
jimh	posted 08-07-2003 07:20 PM ET (US) Most warranty offers provide the manufacturer with an escape clause if the product is used improperly. The link I provided above points to the FTC's website that explains the Magnuson-Moss Act. It applies to all consumer products, and is in no way limited to automobiles.
Dick	posted 08-07-2003 09:32 PM ET (US) I have no problem with home installation nor do I have a problem with most aftermarket parts. Some are even better than OEM and many are off the same production line in a different package. The only thing I can't understand in this thread is the red neck attitude that if you register your motor big brother will be watching you. Dick
Whalerdan	posted 08-08-2003 03:30 AM ET (US) Personally, my reservation about registration is not that big brother is watching. I see it as a hassle that is not necessary. They'll sell your name to some marketing people and you'll get a bunch of junk mail and calls you don't want.
litnin	posted 08-08-2003 05:48 AM ET (US) The problems arise when, for example, competent Charlie drives one stste away to get good pricing on his new engine because the nearby dealers seem to want way too much for a new engine and installation. Charlie figures that he can install the engine and likes the idea of doing it himself anyway. Charlie takes the drive and little does Charlie know that he has gotten a bum engine, (you may substitute any other owner installed item other than engine), so Charlie brings his boat with new engine to a dealer and he says, " where did you buy the engine?" Charlie replies that he purchased it from Billy Bob's Discount Marine and installed it himself. (Info probably on warranty form anyway.) Red flags go up and the dealer says "take it back to Billy Bob's". My point is that Charlie might do a bang up job on installation of the engine and if the engine has problems, Charlie has a real problem. There are risks associated with purchasing items such as this from far away. Does Charlie remove his engine and ship it back or haul his boat to the other state and get a hotel room while Billy Bob's diagnoses his problem? Sounds too risky for me. Probably best to pay the extreme pricing and let the almost local dealer do the install as much as I hate the thought of that. This problem doesn't exist with new autos, buy it to save money at Billy Bob's Discount Ford and still ANY Ford dealer WILL perform warranty work without question or complaint. Larry, if you drive to Florida and get a new Continental trailer, drive it back up north, and there is a BIG problem with it, what would you do? Chris
Dick	posted 08-08-2003 09:45 AM ET (US) litnin I like your example and am going to take a step in another direction with it. Charlie brings his sick motor to me and admits he bought it from Billy Bob's Marine. I contact the manufacturer for warranty authorization, if approved they pay the bill if not Charlie pays. In either case I get paid for the work performed and Charlie is happy because he didn't have to go back to Billy Bob's. Charlie is now going to tell all of his friends how well he was taken care of at our shop. I sure like that kind of word of mouth advertising rather than the kind I would get if I had turned him away. Dick
John O	posted 08-08-2003 11:07 AM ET (US) I did purchase my motor out of state. I bought a 2001 Merc 2 stroke 75hp new for $3800 in Fla. Most local shops wanted $5400.I had it installed by the marina that I keep the boat at. They are an authorized Mercury shop that chooses not to sell motors do to many factors one being money tied up in inventory. They welcome the work. They were more than happy to do the job and sell me all the rigging that went with the Merc as I was converting from a Johnson. I supplied the Morse control and cables. They sold me the rest. When the owner handed me the bill a month after the job was done and the boat was in the water, I handed him cash on the spot. He said " I wish all my customers paid so quickly". I replied " Just remember me when I need some work done in the heat of the season". The bottom line is any authorized dealer CAN do the work. Whether they WILL or not depends on how the customer treats them. I happen to be satisfied with the cost of the install and would not feel comfortable doing it my self. I did remove the old motor and mount the Merc to trailer it down to the shop. I plan on keeping my boat at this marina for many years and hope a trusting long term relationship will benefit both parties.
Bigshot	posted 08-08-2003 12:08 PM ET (US) This is getting redundant. If a boat dealer tells you something that is different than what a car dealer would do....walk away. If you still are not sure....call Bombardier, can you spare the $1 to call Canada? Boat dealers just like car dealers can be scumbags. They can also be like Dick and do it the right way. If I buy a boat at my local dealer and get a 5 year warranty and move to another town or state, don't ya think I could find a dealer to do warranty work on it.....they do get paid ya know. How many people have warranty work done(non optimax/ficht owners)? Please people, all I ask is that you think about it before you accept it as truth. If you want to pay $100 less than MSRP because the local dealer will treat you right, that is your perogative. If you want to save a couple grand and shop around, I applaud you. If you want to save even more $$ and install it yourself, I will stand up and applaud. I help people make or retain their wealth for a living, I hate to see people waste their money because the local stealership scares them into it. Don't be a victim, do the research. Thanks for pointing out the Magnuson-Moss Jim....I remember it from my college days but have not read it in a while nor remebered how to spell it.
Bigshot	posted 08-08-2003 12:14 PM ET (US) Here it is Jim: "Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions. In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty. While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things. While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty. Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.
litnin	posted 08-08-2003 01:01 PM ET (US) Bigshot, I did call Bomb. They never returned the call. Chris
jimh	posted 08-08-2003 07:11 PM ET (US) In the real world there is what the law says and there is how the real world operates. If you go out to dinner at a nice restaurant and never leave a tip, don't expect the wait staff to treat you quite a nicely as someone who leaves a tip of 20-percent or more with every meal. In the authorized dealer repair business, there are often variable rates of compensation for the dealer from the manufacturer. The dealer may not get the full shop rate. Say he normally charges $70/hour for his shop labor; the warranty work may be repaid at a lower rate. If a dealer has a yard full of non-warranty work that he can charge at full shop rate and also make a profit on all the parts, he may prefer to do that work instead of performing the warranty work for which he will make a lower labor rate and probably no profit on the parts. Throw in the factor that he is looking at some guy he's never seen before who went 500 miles to save a few bucks and bought the motor from another dealer. You can see that this situation might not be the one where you are likely to be put first in line.
ducktwin	posted 08-08-2003 07:54 PM ET (US) Ditto, jimh. The dealer cannot refuse you, however he can make it very inconvenient. I get the distinct feeling that many on this board have little idea of how the real business world works. Business is done on relationships. Business people do not like to have things or people forced upon them. As soon as you get "in someone's face" demanding service, that someone has mentally put you at the back of the line. The old example of you taking a steak into Ruth's Chris Steakhouse to have them cook it for you applies here.