posted 09-08-2003 02:14 PM ET (US)        

What should I have done? After that experience I am reluctant to take vessel in ocean. Currently only fishing in Long Island Sound. I suspect I should have the bilge on auto all the time. Should I have the thru hull plug out so the water can just drain out? I pulled the plug to experiment and the water was about 1" from the deck. Is that an indication that my vessel is to low in the water? I have a 77 gallon fuel tank and it was full.

Any feedback for this Newbie Whaler owner appreciated.

posted 09-08-2003 02:26 PM ET (US)            

Also, your 500-GPH pump, if in the cockpit drain, is too small. I have an 1100-GPH pump there and a 500-GPH in the motor well, although an 1100-GPH in the well couldn't hurt. Leave both pumps on Automatic.

posted 09-08-2003 03:17 PM ET (US)            

I agree with Peter. My 1990 Revenge-22 W/T has a different bilge configuration than yours, but is still essentially the same boat.

Three years ago, while fighting a king salmon, I was getting blown onto some rocks and had to back off the rocks to deeper water - still fighting the fish (I was alone). The wind was on shore at about 15 knots and there was a 1-2' chop (some bigger) left over from the night before. I was backing hard, and the first three waves washed right over the transom and down below to the cabin flooding it to about 6" below the cushions. My coolers, bait, and other gear were all floating around me, I was standing in 6" of water, and both bilge pumps were blasting water over the side. And I was still fighting the fish. Well, to shorten the story, I lost the fish (straightened the hook), turned into the wind, restowed the gear, the pumps finished pumping and 5 minutes later I had fresh bait in the water.

For the future, avoid situations where you expose your transom to incoming seas while you are dead in the water or backing down. The boat can take it, but it is an uncomfortable position for your family. Some other folks have crafted splash boards that go across/above the outboard well. I imagine that these likely work fairly well.

posted 09-08-2003 04:21 PM ET (US)            

I will get another bilge installed in deck well as it appears there was one there at one time as bracket is still there.

I'm contemplating attaching some form of safety line to prevent losing the well cover which started floating away.

One thing for sure is is unnerving.

Just for clarification, I have a 500-GPH in the engine well and no other bilge [pumps].

posted 09-08-2003 05:44 PM ET (US)            

Both boats were used in the Great Lakes, and I intentionally tried to flood the cockpits just to see how fast the boat would self-bail. In both cases the boyancy would tend to lift the engine exhaust out of the water during the experiment. Other than being a little unnerving to someone not familiar with the boat's performance, I found it rather reassuring to see 6-8 in of green water wash out over the transom cut-out as fast as it came in. My experience is when the going is really rough, I pull the plugs and let it self drain.

As for the wet equipment, I solved that by using large Igloo coolers that are tied down to the deck by shock cord. This keeps things dry and in place in all sorts of seas.

posted 09-08-2003 09:00 PM ET (US)            

Another help I've found is to have only as much fuel as needed. I have the 129-gallon tank and I try to keep it no more than half full. Another tip, if you have a portly friend (or if you are portly yourself) fish from the front of the boat. The extra weight helps balance the see-saw. I've even thought of placing sand bags (100-200 lbs) in the bow locker but havn't tried this yet.

posted 09-08-2003 11:57 PM ET (US)            

The earlier version with the small center-only well often had a metal tubing brace running from gunwale to gunwale at the stern, which helped to strengthen the stern and also provided a little sense of security for passengers who otherwise might have thought they could go right out of the back of the boat and over the wide notched transom. This seems particularly easy to do if the boat has only a single engine; there is plenty of open space on the wide notched transom that was designed for twin engines

In the older design, which I have seen in a few boats that I have had the chance to observe close-up, it looks to me like the height of the splash well dam is actually lower than the transom height. This means that once the well has filled with water, the well begins to drain into the cockpit and not into the sea, unless you have the splash well drain plugs removed. If the plugs are removed, you may be able to drain the well faster than water is coming aboard, but if not, the splash well overflows into the cockpit.

On the newer style splash well, the volume of the splash well is increased by its wider width, its longer fore and aft length, and by its greater depth (due to the higher dam). It can hold much more water before overflowing into the cockpit. And on these boats the splash well dam on the cockpit side is several inches higher than the transom. It keeps water out of the cockpit unless you really get a big wave rolling aboard and the splash well dam has filled.

By the way on the 20-foot Boston Whaler boat hull, it seems that the wider splash well and gunwale to gunwale dam are the norm, at least they are in my 1987. I don't know what year the 22-foot hull was changed, but later ones apparently have the full width splash well and higher dam. I think this was c.1989

That change was probably as a result of feedback from people who were shipping water into the cockpit from backing or big following seas, etc.

posted 09-09-2003 09:44 AM ET (US)         

Louie

posted 09-09-2003 09:52 AM ET (US)            

It drains out. When I stop backing down.

My splash well is also pretty small - it is tapered both fore-and-aft and side-to-side. I really question whether there is enough room to even put a bilge pump down there.

The new style splash well is probably more forgiving of the 800 lbs you are going to have if you put on twins. But I don't think I would do it on this boat.

David

posted 09-09-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)            

Regarding bouyancy with the sump drains open, I don't think it's a big issue. The corner sumps are so small that you don't gain very much additional bouyancy by having them closed. I doubt if you could measure if the boat is floating any higher on her lines with them closed and pumped out. Larry makes a good point about water around the fuel tank, and I think that may be a better reason to keep them closed than any other.

posted 09-09-2003 06:57 PM ET (US)            

I can't speak for my 22 Revenge as I've never run it without the cockpit drain plugn, but with the fishwell drain plug out, it definitely floats differently with less bouyency as the volume once occupied by air is now occupied by water. Also, water in the fishwell has a "free surface" which I believe exagerates the rolling that you sometimes encounter when drifting thereby letting the ends of the transom dip below the water line more easily.

posted 09-09-2003 08:24 PM ET (US)            

With a 22-foot hull you should plan to get your feet wet, even in a beam sea. This is particularly true of the boats that don't have the full width splashwell. The boat was designed to be run with the sump plugs out. They allow water to flow out faster, and the fuel tank cavity is designed to allow water to flow out. The baitwell is optional as you may want to keep water in, or out. With the baitwell full of water, the excess weight will certainly lead to wet feet. With the extended fuel tank your, situation improves slightly because fuel is more buoyant than water.

As far as self bailing cockpits go, this was not Dougherty's best effort. When asked, he would tell you the transom had to be low to match the engine's shaft length. That doesn't explain why he didn't have a better splashwell design.

Knowing the nature of the beast, there are two options to minimize flooding. One is to rig the boat with a single outboard, to reduce weight aft. The other is to build a custom splash guard to keep water from entering the sumps and filling the baitwell. This is harder to do on the older models, due to the location of the sumps.

posted 09-09-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)            

Having been up to above my knees in water from a big wave over the side of my 25, it takes a while for water to drain through the drain holes... I had enough that the balance of the boat when forward and not to the rear... a little scary. I hate all the growth that comes with any water so I seal them up and rely on pumps. But the drain won't help with with serious water... it took several minutes for the deck to dry even with the power on to get the bow up in my case.

But it is amazing how much water you get in aboat without rerally noticing... I don't think you can get enough water inside a notched transom whaler to worry about stability.

posted 09-10-2003 09:38 AM ET (US)            

The splash well drain plugs are in the lower part of the transom and drain the transom splash well to the sea.

The cockpit sump drain plugs are in the hull bottom and drain the sump to the sea.

If you leave the splash well drain plugs out, the splash well fills with some water. The amount depends on the engine weight and trim on the oat, but generally it is not too much and is contained in the splash well area.

If you leave the cockpit sump drain plugs out, water will flow in from the sea until the sumps, the rigging tunnel, and (likely) the main center cavity of the hull (with the aluminum fuel tank foamed in place) are flooded, resulting (in some cases) with accumulation of water on the deck in the rear of the cockpit. This is the condition to which LHG refers when he said "I disagree about leaving sump plugs out."

Leaving the cockpit sump drain plugs in and depending on the automatic bilge pump to clear any accumulated water seems to be the best advice, particularly in salt water operation. This avoids having the cables in the rigging tunnel and the rear part of the fuel cavity (with its hoses, etc.) sitting in a bath of salt water.

When the boat is on the hard, on its trailer or rack stored, it is a good idea to remove the cockpit sump drain plugs. This way any water that collects from rain will not pool in the sumps and flood the cockpit.

If the boat is left on a mooring you have the dilemma of what to do about the cockpit sump drain plugs, the automatic bilge pumping, your battery charge, how much rain you anticipate, how waterproof your mooring cover is, etc.. Everyone has a different strategy for that situation.

posted 09-10-2003 01:48 PM ET (US)            

If one really wants to quickly get rid of water taken aboard while drift fishing then the combination of a bilge pump (obviously not on Auto) and the sump drain open would be the best setup.

posted 09-10-2003 02:26 PM ET (US)         

On the 25, with a sump also in the port corner, a 500 GPH pump will keep that rigging tunnel dry. On this boat, water can overflow from the rigging tunnels on either side into the gas tank cavity, where it becomes trapped. It's only means of removal is evaporation through opened deck plates.

posted 09-22-2003 12:12 AM ET (US)            

I've since moved to a 1989 Center Console Cuddy-27, and it's amazing how nice it is to have dry feet.

The OUTRAGE-22 is the finest boat on earth when underway. It's also the only boat you ever want to be on with water around your ankles - My only wish is that I didn't have to experience this on a weekly basis.

posted 09-22-2003 08:16 AM ET (US)            

The openings of the sump drains are about 0.875 inches. The rate at which water will flow through an orifice (that is the proper technical term in this situation) depends on the height of the water above it. If the orifice has a 200-foot head of water above it, the flow rate will be spectacular. If the orifice has only a few inches of water above it, the flow rate will be much less.

The flow rate from a pump will be fairly constant, although it too might benefit from an increased head of water at its intake.

It would also be interesting to calculate the weight of water contained in a splash well which has been allowed to fill partially due to the transom being loaded to the point where the drain outlets are below the waterline. At 7-pounds/gallon, you might have a fair amount of weight in the form of water in the splash well, adding to the problem.

I just finished installation of an automatic pump in the splash well of my boat (REVENGE-20) and now intend to keep the splash well drains plugged in normal operation. I did this more to keep the well dry so as to permit me to use it as a storage bin. (My engines are mounted on set back brackets, freeing up all of the well from cables, etc.)

[Changed TOPIC; was "Water Cver (sic) Transom on REVENGE-22"]]

Footnote: There is an interesting controversy surrounding calculating the rate of flow of water through an orifice. Marilyn vos Savant. author of a column giving answers to difficult questions, and who is listed in some references as having the "Highest IQ" in the Guinness Book of Records, seems to have gotten it wrong. At least according to this rebuttle: