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Author Topic:   Montauk questions

atygert posted 09-17-2003 06:11 AM ET (US)
This is a great board! I've been reading it on and off for about 4 months, trying to learn as much as I can about Whalers and what to look for in a good one. I think my work may be paying off soon. I was looking for something I could put in my garage when not in use, but still have enough room for a family of four plus a dog. It also couldn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase or operate. I found a "newer" Montauk, which seems to be a near perfect fit. It's well equipped, looks like it's been very well maintained and the price seems reasonable, based on what I've seen in our area.
I came away from my initial inspection of the boat with a couple fiberglass questions, though, that I hope someone can shed some light on. The keel of the boat is showing blue, indicating the gel coat has been worn off. It looked to me like a cause of this could be pulling the boat up on shore several times. I didn't see any cracking or other damage that might indicate it was run aground at high speed. But I am concerned about the missing gel coat. I understand a keel gaurd can be installed to protect from this type of damage. If I do that, do I still need to repair the gel coat first? How involved is installing a keel guard; is it a job for the pros or can someone with a reasonable mechanical inclination do the job?

My other concern is back at the transome. The gel coat is missing all along the top, horizontal edge of the transome. It's a stripe about 1/4" to 1/2" inch wide that follows the top of the transome, all the way across the back of the boat. It looks like bumper rails might have been there, but were removed, but I can't tell for certain. There was one pourous area, about 1" long in this area that definitely needs to be patched. No gaping holes, but it looks like a possible water ingress area.
Should I be concerned about either of these spots of missing gel coat? Other than those, the boat looked very clean and well maintained. I want to make an offer, but first want to put these concerns to rest, one way or the other.
Thanks for all your help.
Allan
newt posted 09-17-2003 07:51 AM ET (US)
atygert,
Welcome. The missing gelcoat at the top of the transom is actually intentional from the factory - dont worry about it. My Montauk has the same thing. I also wouldn't worry about a little missing gel coat on the keel. I would say that is a pretty common occurance, and easy enought to fix. I cheated on mine, and simply patched over with West Sytem epoxy, and no gel coat. If you can see the green fiberglass, then it should be fixed, but don't let that one item keep you from buying the boat.
Good luck.
GAwhale posted 09-17-2003 09:11 AM ET (US)
Welcome atygert!
My 2001 Montauk barely fits in my 19 foot gararge. The garage door rests on the tongue.
Check out the following link for a fiberglass repair guy on the Northshore of Boston:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002856.html
I don't think you will ever regret buying a Montauk.
prj posted 09-17-2003 10:21 AM ET (US)
Welcome to the Forum atygert.
The exposed fiberglass along the top of the transom
is called the "green line", and as indicated above,
is intentionally left factory unfinished.
Do a search from the main page
of the website, and look for threads
having those words.
An opening or crack along it should be sealed.
The exposed fiberglass along the forward keel
should be repaired.
Prior to covering, check for dripping water
or prolonged dampness at this spot.
This minor damage can occur from either
beaching repeatedly or a poorly aligned
trailer drive-on, gouging gel-coat
on the keel roller flange.
If you plan on beaching your boat in the future,
install a keel guard.
If not, an epoxy and gel-coat repair might be
more appropriate.
Use the search engine again
and look for "keel guard".
Several informative threads will be found.
Good luck.
jimh posted 09-17-2003 01:21 PM ET (US)
While the action of sand rubbing against gel coat can be quite abrasive, I would think that a few hours of being hauled on the beach would not be enough to remove the entire gelcoat layer from the forward hull centerline area.
I would guess that the boat was hauled on the beach a number of times. If you want to see how fast gel coat can be removed, try wet sanding it with about 200 Grit sand paper; you can take it down to laminate faster than you might think.
The appearance of the bluish green layer of hull laminates, particularly if they have been exposed to immersion in the sea for a long time, would raise a few questions in my mind.
I would carefully inspect those damaged areas to see if the laminate was still strong. It should not be soft and waterlogged.
The repair is not complicated and you can do it yourself with modest preparation, inexpensive resins, and a few days of your time (most of which will be spent waiting for resins to cure).
atygert posted 09-17-2003 01:42 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the helpful feedback.
I poked around the keel where the gel was gone and it still seemed solid. So, after reading the insightful posts, I'm convinced that this is something that can be easily fixed at reasonable expense.
If (when?) I get the boat, I intend to get a keel protector for it, so my primary concern would be to seal the area and not so much to pretty it up. Has anyone had experience with any particular brand of keel protector?
Now, to convince my wife that we REALLY need this boat.
Cheers,
Allan
steelhead5 posted 09-18-2003 01:40 PM ET (US)
Hey
Try this thread, this guy did a great presentation with pictures of how he installed his keelgaurd.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001988.html
jameso posted 09-18-2003 03:53 PM ET (US)
Check the trailer! IMHO more keels are damaged by improper trailer fit than by beaching.
Brush it with West, do the same for the greenline and press on with pride.
Jim
Buzzorouter posted 09-18-2003 04:05 PM ET (US)
Atygert-
Has that boat been bottom painted? If it has black bottom paint you may be looking at blue bottom paint underneath not the missing gell coat. That boat would have to be beached quite a few times to rub it all off.
andygere posted 09-19-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)
I agree with James, sticky or worn rollers on the trailer are more often the cause of keel line gelcoat damage. Trailer rollers are cheap and easy to replace, and most trailer that use the black rubber type need new ones. Get the gold urethane type made by Stoltz and they'll last a long time. I'd do the repair with color matched gelcoat patch paste from Spectrum Color. Do a search on this site to get lots of details on how to do the repairs. It's pretty easy and all you need is a plastic squeegee, a rubber sanding block and a good assortment of wet-dry sandpaper. Lots of Whalers have this type of damage which is easy to repair. It's not a deal killer by any means, and you can use it to get the seller down on price a bit. If it's a clean Montauk and priced right, you had better jump on it. The good ones don't last long out there.
atygert posted 09-19-2003 08:12 PM ET (US)
Thanks to all! The community on this board is amazing. With all your generous help, I was able to strike a deal with Bob Zollo to take his '91 Montauk "off his hands". Enjoy the Outrage, Bob! I'm going to put in into our garage for the winter, do some light repair work we spoke of earlier in this post, take boater safety and charting courses and, if the snow gods are smiling, do a boat load of skiing this winter. By spring, the boat should be ready to go and I'll have something better suited than our Passat to tow it.
Thanks again to everyone
Bigshot posted 09-19-2003 10:06 PM ET (US)
Passat will tow it but don't do highway speeds.
daverdla posted 09-20-2003 07:57 AM ET (US)
Check the tow rating of the passat. It may be suitable. I've seen montauks towed with similar cars. I tow our montauk with my wife's toyota sienna minivan. My Saab 9-5 could also tow it but only if the trailer had brakes. The Sienna tows the boat fine. Pulling it up a steep ramp however can be a problem for any front wheel drive vehicle.
If the ramp is too wet, steep, slimey, etc get the boat lifted and set on the trailer if you can. I have done this twice. Another option a friend uses with a front wheel drive minivan is to use a wide ramp and pull the boat up driving diagonally across the ramp. Wide ramps and marina's with a hoist aren't everywhere so check the ramps before you drop your boat and make sure you will be confident pulling the boat back out with the Passat. Also check the tide schedule and make sure it won't be too low when you're ready too leave. It's not too expensive to get the boat lifted but it's not something you'd want to pay for every weekend. I paid $36.00 to get my montauk lifted last Wednesday in advance of Isabel.
Search the site for information about the care and feeding of your trailer. There's a lot of horror stories about failed bearings, bad wiring, broken hitches, etc.
You've picked a great boat - enjoy it!!!
Dave

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Author	Topic: Montauk questions
atygert	posted 09-17-2003 06:11 AM ET (US) This is a great board! I've been reading it on and off for about 4 months, trying to learn as much as I can about Whalers and what to look for in a good one. I think my work may be paying off soon. I was looking for something I could put in my garage when not in use, but still have enough room for a family of four plus a dog. It also couldn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase or operate. I found a "newer" Montauk, which seems to be a near perfect fit. It's well equipped, looks like it's been very well maintained and the price seems reasonable, based on what I've seen in our area. I came away from my initial inspection of the boat with a couple fiberglass questions, though, that I hope someone can shed some light on. The keel of the boat is showing blue, indicating the gel coat has been worn off. It looked to me like a cause of this could be pulling the boat up on shore several times. I didn't see any cracking or other damage that might indicate it was run aground at high speed. But I am concerned about the missing gel coat. I understand a keel gaurd can be installed to protect from this type of damage. If I do that, do I still need to repair the gel coat first? How involved is installing a keel guard; is it a job for the pros or can someone with a reasonable mechanical inclination do the job? My other concern is back at the transome. The gel coat is missing all along the top, horizontal edge of the transome. It's a stripe about 1/4" to 1/2" inch wide that follows the top of the transome, all the way across the back of the boat. It looks like bumper rails might have been there, but were removed, but I can't tell for certain. There was one pourous area, about 1" long in this area that definitely needs to be patched. No gaping holes, but it looks like a possible water ingress area. Should I be concerned about either of these spots of missing gel coat? Other than those, the boat looked very clean and well maintained. I want to make an offer, but first want to put these concerns to rest, one way or the other. Thanks for all your help. Allan
newt	posted 09-17-2003 07:51 AM ET (US) atygert, Welcome. The missing gelcoat at the top of the transom is actually intentional from the factory - dont worry about it. My Montauk has the same thing. I also wouldn't worry about a little missing gel coat on the keel. I would say that is a pretty common occurance, and easy enought to fix. I cheated on mine, and simply patched over with West Sytem epoxy, and no gel coat. If you can see the green fiberglass, then it should be fixed, but don't let that one item keep you from buying the boat. Good luck.
GAwhale	posted 09-17-2003 09:11 AM ET (US) Welcome atygert! My 2001 Montauk barely fits in my 19 foot gararge. The garage door rests on the tongue. Check out the following link for a fiberglass repair guy on the Northshore of Boston: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002856.html I don't think you will ever regret buying a Montauk.
prj	posted 09-17-2003 10:21 AM ET (US) Welcome to the Forum atygert. The exposed fiberglass along the top of the transom is called the "green line", and as indicated above, is intentionally left factory unfinished. Do a search from the main page of the website, and look for threads having those words. An opening or crack along it should be sealed. The exposed fiberglass along the forward keel should be repaired. Prior to covering, check for dripping water or prolonged dampness at this spot. This minor damage can occur from either beaching repeatedly or a poorly aligned trailer drive-on, gouging gel-coat on the keel roller flange. If you plan on beaching your boat in the future, install a keel guard. If not, an epoxy and gel-coat repair might be more appropriate. Use the search engine again and look for "keel guard". Several informative threads will be found. Good luck.
jimh	posted 09-17-2003 01:21 PM ET (US) While the action of sand rubbing against gel coat can be quite abrasive, I would think that a few hours of being hauled on the beach would not be enough to remove the entire gelcoat layer from the forward hull centerline area. I would guess that the boat was hauled on the beach a number of times. If you want to see how fast gel coat can be removed, try wet sanding it with about 200 Grit sand paper; you can take it down to laminate faster than you might think. The appearance of the bluish green layer of hull laminates, particularly if they have been exposed to immersion in the sea for a long time, would raise a few questions in my mind. I would carefully inspect those damaged areas to see if the laminate was still strong. It should not be soft and waterlogged. The repair is not complicated and you can do it yourself with modest preparation, inexpensive resins, and a few days of your time (most of which will be spent waiting for resins to cure).
atygert	posted 09-17-2003 01:42 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the helpful feedback. I poked around the keel where the gel was gone and it still seemed solid. So, after reading the insightful posts, I'm convinced that this is something that can be easily fixed at reasonable expense. If (when?) I get the boat, I intend to get a keel protector for it, so my primary concern would be to seal the area and not so much to pretty it up. Has anyone had experience with any particular brand of keel protector? Now, to convince my wife that we REALLY need this boat. Cheers, Allan
steelhead5	posted 09-18-2003 01:40 PM ET (US) Hey Try this thread, this guy did a great presentation with pictures of how he installed his keelgaurd. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001988.html
jameso	posted 09-18-2003 03:53 PM ET (US) Check the trailer! IMHO more keels are damaged by improper trailer fit than by beaching. Brush it with West, do the same for the greenline and press on with pride. Jim
Buzzorouter	posted 09-18-2003 04:05 PM ET (US) Atygert- Has that boat been bottom painted? If it has black bottom paint you may be looking at blue bottom paint underneath not the missing gell coat. That boat would have to be beached quite a few times to rub it all off.
andygere	posted 09-19-2003 12:44 PM ET (US) I agree with James, sticky or worn rollers on the trailer are more often the cause of keel line gelcoat damage. Trailer rollers are cheap and easy to replace, and most trailer that use the black rubber type need new ones. Get the gold urethane type made by Stoltz and they'll last a long time. I'd do the repair with color matched gelcoat patch paste from Spectrum Color. Do a search on this site to get lots of details on how to do the repairs. It's pretty easy and all you need is a plastic squeegee, a rubber sanding block and a good assortment of wet-dry sandpaper. Lots of Whalers have this type of damage which is easy to repair. It's not a deal killer by any means, and you can use it to get the seller down on price a bit. If it's a clean Montauk and priced right, you had better jump on it. The good ones don't last long out there.
atygert	posted 09-19-2003 08:12 PM ET (US) Thanks to all! The community on this board is amazing. With all your generous help, I was able to strike a deal with Bob Zollo to take his '91 Montauk "off his hands". Enjoy the Outrage, Bob! I'm going to put in into our garage for the winter, do some light repair work we spoke of earlier in this post, take boater safety and charting courses and, if the snow gods are smiling, do a boat load of skiing this winter. By spring, the boat should be ready to go and I'll have something better suited than our Passat to tow it. Thanks again to everyone
Bigshot	posted 09-19-2003 10:06 PM ET (US) Passat will tow it but don't do highway speeds.
daverdla	posted 09-20-2003 07:57 AM ET (US) Check the tow rating of the passat. It may be suitable. I've seen montauks towed with similar cars. I tow our montauk with my wife's toyota sienna minivan. My Saab 9-5 could also tow it but only if the trailer had brakes. The Sienna tows the boat fine. Pulling it up a steep ramp however can be a problem for any front wheel drive vehicle. If the ramp is too wet, steep, slimey, etc get the boat lifted and set on the trailer if you can. I have done this twice. Another option a friend uses with a front wheel drive minivan is to use a wide ramp and pull the boat up driving diagonally across the ramp. Wide ramps and marina's with a hoist aren't everywhere so check the ramps before you drop your boat and make sure you will be confident pulling the boat back out with the Passat. Also check the tide schedule and make sure it won't be too low when you're ready too leave. It's not too expensive to get the boat lifted but it's not something you'd want to pay for every weekend. I paid $36.00 to get my montauk lifted last Wednesday in advance of Isabel. Search the site for information about the care and feeding of your trailer. There's a lot of horror stories about failed bearings, bad wiring, broken hitches, etc. You've picked a great boat - enjoy it!!! Dave