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| Author | Topic: Bombardier (BRP) Cuts Jobs, Selling U.S. Plants |
| Plotman |
Bombardier Recreational Products announced two U.S. plants that make outboard motor parts are for sale. Source: Reuters news wire story David |
| jimh |
The two plants in the U.S. which are for sale are not the main engine production facilities in Wisconsin. |
| jimh |
According to sources as BPR, the manufacturing plant at Spruce Pines, North Carolina which is being offered for sale is a lost foam casting facility which produces engine parts for OMC. The Spruce Pines facility was considered to be one of the best of its kind in the world, according to some comments from workers at the facility. Lost foam casting is an advanced technique in which very complex parts can be produced by casting, reducing the amount of subsequent machining needed to create a finish part. The technique involves use of a styrofoam mold in the shape of the desired part, which is then surrounded with sand. Molten aluminum is poured onto the mold, the metal taking the shape of the part and the foam burning off. |
| jimh |
According to some previous press releases, the manufacturing plant in Delavan, Wisconsin, now being offered for sale by Bombardier Recreational Products, produced electronic components for Evinrude engines with FICHT Ram injection technology. |
| WSTEFFENS |
Jim: Your knowledge of basic manufacturing is very good! The Spruce Pines plant was built to make power head assemblies in the late 1980's. I know as I was recruited to work there as I could design a velocity trench to handle the chips created by the machining. I remember they were using Saber equipment made by CMM for high speed machining of aluminum. Very cutting edge at the time. The plant also made everything from Ryan weed eaters to Lawn Boy lawn mowers. A truly multi tasking plant. Later WLS |
| navita non grata |
Many of Monsieur Bombardier's parts are made in China. I have no problem with that. I am waiting to find out when "closed cell foam" is made there. Just a matter of time? Kind of like "West Side Story"? Come on Rif, we aren't gonna let them take OUR turf are we? HmMMMMMM. Foam casting is what Saturn implemented for its engine block. By having a seamless engine, you reduce the need for gaskets that eventually fail. Remarkable technology. But, Saturn is shying away from its original technology due to market pressure, and, with that loss, many cult followers are leaving. No longer are the Saturn reunions sponsored. Is Whaler following Saturn's lead? http://www.castsolutions.com/archive/feature0100.html Amazing how one thing can lead to another. I read "foam casting" above and remembered back in 1989 I test drove a Saturn. The saleswoman mentioned something about how the engines were made by pouring the metal into a foam model and created without seams. I assumed this was "foam casting". I posted my memory as fact before I investigated. After a quick Google search, I found this to be true -- 15 years later. |
| seahorse |
Foam casting has been around for a lot of years. OMC started using it in their V6 and V4 cylinder blocks, heads, and midsections back around 1986. |
| Queequeg |
Gold and silversmiths use a similar process called lost wax casting where a ring mold for example is made out of wax surrounded in sand and the molten metal melts away and replaces the wax. |
| jimh |
I never knew that Ole Evinrude founded Lawn-Boy! |
| LHG |
So where are the parts and components currently made by these plants going to be made? Did I read correct that really what they are doing is "outsourcing" the work, meaning that the buyer of the operations will then be contracted to produce same for BRP? |
| prj |
In yesterday's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, an article on the plant closings appeared to imply just that, the plants and equipment would be sold to a company who would continue to produce and supply the same parts that BRP did from the location. A BRP spokesperson stated that they would focus on aspects of the business that they were best at, R&D, assembly and marketing (or similar). |
| LHG |
I'm all for the success of the Johnson/Evinrude line, but I don't like the smell of this at all. Am I correct in suspecting financial problems? Seems like the financial types, the silent investors like the Soros years, may be making decisions not in the best overall interest of quality production components and the finished product. Maybe they need to raise some more capital by selling off work they previously did themselves? Otherwise it makes no sense to do this. This puts another middleman in the picture, and probably increased costs. I hope they know what they are doing subbing out the engine block casting production. Are they doing any 4-stroke development at all? PRJ's last sentence scares me, to say the least. No manufacturing, only assembly? I hope I am wrong about all of this |
| Backfire |
When Japan makes the wing for the new Boeing aircraft will that scare you? Mercury's new China plant will open in the next six months so all the Merc's under a certain hp will come wrapped in rice paper. I believe Merc's Vaccuum Assisted Lost Foam Casting Plant was recognized the leader in lost foam tecnology a year or two ago and also makes parts for Harley and John Deere and others. I believe Bombardier (can't recall seeing any China parts on the outboards)sure can monitor the quality of some subassemblies like starters from Mexico, bare blocks from Spruce Pines, or whatever. Their new engineering center in Austria will will probably multi-task with Rotax and other products as I think they have 3 350 hp outboard dynos on hand. I think the Waukegan engineering and test facility does some of the work. Here and there all over the world. Backfire |
| high sierra |
I recently had an 8 hp Johnson 2 stroke made in China. Sold it. |
| jimh |
I don't think you can mention Soros and Bombardier in the same breath. One of them wrecked the company, the other saved it from the oblivion express. Local newspaper reacts to announcement of For-Sale at North Carolina Bombardier plant: http://www.citizen-times.com/cache/article/regional/70592.shtml The article quotes Bombardier spokesperson Pierre Pichette, vice president of communications and public affairs, as saying the sale announced Tuesday won't lead to immediate local layoffs, because the corporation intends to keep the plant open until a new owner takes over. Wisconsin reaction to the announcment: http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2004/11/11/news/news02.txt |
| jimh |
I don't see anywhere a statement that BPR is going to stop being a manufacturing company. Be careful not to confuse news about Bombardier, the jet plane builder, with Bombardier Recreational Products, the outboard and snow machine maker. Bombardier just had their bond rating lowered to junk status--but that is not the company that makes the outboards. |
| jimh |
Here is the press release on this topic:
Bombardier Recreational Products Inc. (BRP) Announces VALCOURT, QUEBEC--Bombardier Recreational Products Inc. (BRP) announces the restructuring of the company's operations, including a reduction of its workforce. Some 800 jobs will be eliminated, of which 600 are in Canada, 100 in the United States and another 100 outside of North America. With regards to the employees in Canada, 200 will be offered pre-retirement packages, 200 more will be laid off with a possibility of recall and 200 more will be laid off permanently. This decision is necessitated by the rise of the Canadian dollar Furthermore, BRP also announced that its plants located in Delavan, "The goal is to concentrate our activities on our core competencies, Valcourt and Sturtevant will remain the company's two main manufacturing ---------- |
| LHG |
Jim - I think you just answered your question, where they say what their "goals" are. "Assembly" is the operative word. We have to remember that the press release covers their entire business, much of which is PWC and Sea Doo boats and snowmobiles. We all know that PWC sales are in a bad decline, and Honda has now entered that market too. Reading between the lines, and with sale of manufacturing assets in the States, both of which relate to only Evinrude/Johnson, I am still concerned about the future of that portion of their operation. If Mercury had their block manufacturing facility for their premium product, Verado, up for sale, I'd also be concerned. Notably, BRP is not selling their Rotax manufacturing operation, just the E/J facilties. As the Johnson 2-strokes are forced out of production next summer, what will Johnson become? Only a shell name for white painted, tarriffed, Suzukis? No big profits there, that's for sure. Or will they begin selling E-tecs under the Johnson brand also? (I just learned that Mercury is taking the 75 & 90 2-strokes out of production soon, and all orders for these have to placed by dealers by Nov 16th.) The E/J products are facing a juggernaut of well financed competition. Honda and Suzuki are automotive powerhouses, with endless capital resources and great products. Relative to them, Mercury and Yamaha are less powerful, but still worthy competitors, and Mercury controls all these boat companies/transom deals, plus has the most advanced 4-stroke engine. Yamaha also controls a lot of transoms. BRP is currently dedicated only to DFI technology, which as great as it may be, is up against EFI/Supercharged 4-stroke technology of the Big Four. Four-strokes are getting to be highly popular in the overall boating market, already with 50% of the market, even while lower cost conventional 2-strokes are still being offered. Mercury, in particular, and Yamaha to a lesser degree, are now in the position of selling DFI as their "economy priced" line in 2006, which means by definition that Evinrude will be forced to sell E-Tec as an economy priced line also. There is no way an E-tec is going to be able to command the price of a Verado. And it's not that the Optimax and HPDI's are not excellent, reliable engines, and tough competition by themselves. Nobody outside of California really cares about 2 stars vs 3 stars. So seeing these manufacturing plants up for sale, combined with the above, is what gives me hesitation. I worry about BRP having to dump E/J again, to save their core SeaDoo businesses, just like "big" Bombardier had to do to them. This is a tough world out there, and Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki aren't making it any easier for the US based companies |
| jimh |
I think they're moving to a more streamlined model of production. The auto companies are headed the same way. They design and assemble the cars, their suppliers make all the sub-assemblies. Another huge problem for BPR is their Canadian base. With the U.S. dollar declining 20-percent in value against the Canadian dollar, the majority of their revenue also declined 20-percent in value along with it. On the other hand, the cost of their labor in Wisconsin declined, too. |
| LHG |
So does that mean that the US investors who own half of the company, Bain Capital, have made a quick killing on their investment, having bought it with highly discounted US funds before the dollar started sinking against the Canadian dollar? Guess the couple of hundred Canadian dollars I have sitting in my dresser drawer have made some money for me. |
| jimh |
That Canadian money in your dresser drawer has probably been on of the better investments that could have been made in the past 18-months, earning you over a one-percent-per-month return. Now might be a good time to convert it back to U.S. dollars, and invest in something nautical--a new engine, perhaps, or maybe even Brunswick stock(NSYE-BC). See: http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/041111/newamer_1.html http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BC&quicken=1 Brunswick was up 3-percent, hitting $49.81 on Friday's close, a new five-year high. You could have easily bought Brunswick at less than $20 in the past two years, giving you over 130-percent return on your investment. Hmm...maybe those new Verado motors are selling! |
| WSTEFFENS |
Larry: I am thinking about an earlier post you made. Made me think that BRP might be doing what GM did in the early 90's when they spun off Inland, Delco Moraine and a host of other supplier companies and made them "Delphi". This is a move to become a horozintal company vs a verticle company. You control your costs as you make your supply companies (for components) compete for price and quality. This has its good and bad side. Old George S. took OMC to its grave by trying to build first world products with third world components. As the late Dr Demming said, (aparaphrase) "you can not inspect quality "in" on the shipping dock! Its too late by that time!" As for "Spruce Pines" I am sure it was built with tax rebate money. Remember that was the time many companies moved or expanded south due to tax laws. Since the plant is 30 years old, and was set up originally to build products that BRP doesn't make I am guessing the tax pardons are over and ecnomic reality is kicking in. Thing that puzzles me is why BRP went to Wiss. instead going to Ontario!. Would look on the surface that the money exchange factor would been a great benifit! Just a thought! WLS |
| rbruce |
What we need is more sales for these plants to churn high techology motors to the masses south to your border. The closing of these plants couldn't come in the worst of times now that the US dollar is declining in value against the other currencies, makes US goods and those made under CAFTA more appealing to us the latin american consumers. More sales down here of american made goods improves the economy up there in turn you drink more coffee, eat more desserts, buy more packaged goods, perhaps even more computers and chips that we manufacture in Costa Rica and we on the other hand buy american made goods such as E-TEC's and Boston Whalers as we have more disposable income. Perhaps this is a simplistic way of seeing things and cost accounting always points the finger at where the money is going, however, Mexico is still very close to North America and they could still produce sub assemblies and still all the content of the goods would be of american content. More disposable income for workers there more imports from american made goods. And please don't tell me that the E-TEC is going away because I've had a great weekend! |
| jimh |
I don't think E-TEC is going away. No one else comes close in terms of low weight, simplicity of design, low maintenance, and strong performance. |
| jaccoserv |
Evinrude was offering great rebates on the E-TEC engines at the Lauderdale show, a pair of 250s mounted on a new 310 Intrepid got you $5000 back. I don't think we'll be seeing any new 4-Stroke technology from BRP, but is that a bad thing? I like the idea of an efficient, clean easy-to-maintain 2-stroke. |
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