posted 11-07-2005 06:48 PM ET (US)            

This is actually a pretty big debate here in NE Illinois. Though Chicago has miles and miles of public waterfront, our neighbors to the north in the lake-shore suburbs have very few public beaches.

The skinny is that property owners own to the normal high-tide or wash zone, and after that, it's public owned.

Technically, if you have your 'feet wet' you can stroll along anyone's beach no matter who they are or how big their estate.

Lakefront owners don't like that too much, as you can clearly attest.

What do you do?

You do things that you have the right to do on your land that may make it unpleasant for them to be out there. Perhaps a bit of driving practice with your favorite big bertha driver is in order? Be sure to yell "FORE!" right after you swing.

Maybe you should decide to toss the ball to your dog. A dog leaping from the dock, over the boat and into a favorite fishing spot is sure to get some kind of reaction.

I'd go into town and make friends with the fish/game warden. Invite him over for lunch and have a picnic dockside. It may not drive them away (probably won't), but it will make them behave.

Realize this - fishing hot spots go hot and cold. Be thankful that you own such a beatiful spot and enjoy it. When the fishing is cold, enjoy it more. When the fishing is good, work on your golf game.

posted 11-07-2005 07:25 PM ET (US)            

As for walking out in your boxers, that too could go either way. either they pull up anchor and run or they hang around to see if there's more.

posted 11-07-2005 07:30 PM ET (US)         

Legal, probably, in Michigan it would be. Is it rude? If all they are doing is fishing, I wouldn't call it rude. There's a spot on the river where I can catch bass day in and day out... 20 feet from two cottages with decks on the water.. I'll take the kayak and go sit there for periods of time casting to the largemouth in the hole just off their decks..

I'm quiet, I say hi if anyone is sitting out there... but...the river is public, I'm not being disruptive....

posted 11-07-2005 07:47 PM ET (US)            

How about runnin some power to the dock, and gettin yourself some nice speakers and a couple of obnoxious RAP CD's.....

posted 11-07-2005 08:04 PM ET (US)         

One approach people use here is to create a "swimming area" (marked off with buoys) off the end of their dock... (this, however, is on the inland lakes).

posted 11-07-2005 08:24 PM ET (US)            

Technically if you don't own the waterway, they are fishing legally, means you have no case...They are in the canal-waterway so, beach, high/low tide, property lines don't apply...

Try to befriend these - fisherman or red necks as you call them...hmmmm...makes me wonder who the redneck is when you describe wanting to drop your pants and expose yourself and pee in there beer?? Then they would have a case...If you befriend them, explain your concerns and they might cooperate...

If you send the dogs out they might not come back, especially after they pull them in their boat. The dogs could get snagged in their lines, hooks or run over! The water sprinkler and signs will agitate them and you might find lead sinkers flying in your windows...

Finally, if it bothers you that much sell the place, to people who fish...

posted 11-07-2005 08:40 PM ET (US)            

We decided to drive old range balls straight off the property. We'd start with a pitching wedge and have am accuracy contest. It gave the loungers something else to stare at. I dropped a few close to their mooring anchor. When they moved out, I brought out the 5 iron and dropped a few close to their new mooring.

One guy came rowing in and we had a conversation at the end of my dock. I told him I was accurate to about 150 yards and capable of hitting them 250 but I couldn't assure them that I could be accurate at that distance.

posted 11-07-2005 09:33 PM ET (US)            

You have very limited legal recours...Your comment, "I just don't want them fishing, when we are around the house. That seems like common courtesy" They can't fish because your home???...hmmm...Sounds abit arrogant to me...

posted 11-07-2005 10:50 PM ET (US)            

I am taking notes since I am looking for a house on the water.

Your other option is to call all your buddies with boats and have them anchor over the fishing hole. This assumes they don't need their boats to go fishing elsewhere but since the fishing is at your place that is where they should be anyway. To really yank on the chain of the folks you don't know, have all your buddies anchor over the fishing hole, but get out of their boats and fish from shore.

posted 11-07-2005 11:56 PM ET (US)            

Here you can only own to the high water mark. That said, here is a true story that happened a few years ago on the Island.

A family bought a piece of land next to a popular salmon hole on a river about 30 miles from my place. One of the locals was wading the river fly fishing. He was stopped by one of the younger owners and informed him that he couldn't fish that part of the river, they owned the land. The fisherman, reeled in his line, cradled his fly rod, calmly walked over to the young man and cold clocked him. That winter their boat house burnt. Since then, they get along with the locals and there has never been any other damage.

It's interesting to note that there is another camp just across the river. They have never locked their door, only a sign that asks folks to replace any fire wood they use.

posted 11-08-2005 05:10 AM ET (US)         

Those that are telling you that it is legal to fish off your dock are correct. What you are experiencing is one of the "benefits" of owning waterfront property...

David's story probably sums up things pretty well..

In Michigan almost anything you would do to discourage someone from fishing legally would be against the law...here's our statute, chances are you have a similar one there in North Carolina...

"324.47301a Obstruction or interference in lawful taking of fish; prohibited conduct; injunction; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability of section to peace officer; definitions.

Sec. 47301a.

(1) A person shall not obstruct or interfere in the lawful taking of fish by a person licensed under this part.

(2) A person violates this section when the person intentionally or knowingly does any of the following:

(a) Operates a vessel or a device designed to be used on the water which does not meet the definition of vessel in a manner likely to significantly alter the behavior of aquatic species in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of an aquatic species.

(b) Wades or swims in a manner or at a location likely to cause a significant alteration in the behavior of aquatic species in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of an aquatic species.

(c) Tosses, drops, or throws any stone, rock, or other inert material in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of an aquatic species.

(d) Drives, herds, or disturbs any aquatic species in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of an aquatic species.

(e) Blocks, impedes, or harasses another person who is engaged in the process of lawfully taking fish.

(f) Uses a natural or artificial visual, aural, olfactory, gustatory, or physical stimulus to affect animal behavior in order to hinder or prevent the lawful taking of fish.

(g) Erects barriers to deny ingress or egress to waters where the lawful taking of fish may occur. This subdivision does not apply to a person who erects barriers to prevent trespassing on his or her property.

(h) Interjects himself or herself into the area where nets or fishing lines are cast by a person lawfully taking fish.

(i) Affects the condition or placement of personal or public property intended for use in the lawful taking of fish in order to impair the usefulness of the property or prevent the use of the property.

(j) Enters or remains upon private lands without the permission of the owner or the owner's agent, for the purpose of violating this section.

(k) Engages in any other act or behavior for the purpose of violating this section.

(3) Upon petition of an aggrieved person or a person who reasonably may be aggrieved by a violation of this section, a court of competent jurisdiction, upon a showing that a person was engaged in and threatens to continue to engage in illegal conduct under this section, may enjoin that conduct.

posted 11-08-2005 07:32 AM ET (US)         

oops, sorry, there was no intent to be critical towards you in my comment about the thread getting long.

I wasn't commenting on your original post. I should have been a bit more clear, my comment was meant to reflect that questions such as this tend to elicit a lot of responses from members here, most "opinion" types of questions do.

didn't mean to offend...

posted 11-08-2005 08:53 AM ET (US)            

I think you have the right to be angered (actually I think that's a pretty far-reaching right in this country: to be angered); however your rights to do something to prevent the activity that angers you are a lot more limited.

I sympathize and empathize, as we have suffered the same frustration for many years, both with a fishing spot *that we developed* right in front of our island camp, and with boats coming in to anchor and crank up their stereos right off our beach. Both of these irritations occur in an area where there are literally hundreds of other places to successfully enjoy both activities without doing so almost in our living room, or in fact without even having to see another boat or human.

There are a lot of clever things that might be tried, probably the most effective as mentioned above is trying to co-opt them in some friendly fashion. The thing is, at least when I'm angry, it's difficult to focus on seeming to be friendly.

Hope the venting helps-

posted 11-08-2005 09:46 AM ET (US)            

What we do not allow is folks to tie up to our wall. We also have to shag folks off of the island on a routine basis who come ashore to relive themselves (nearest public "facilities" are several miles away by water.)

We also have folks blast by in cigarette boats or cabin cruisers that are way, way to big for the river, and we have passed many a beer devising ways to "fix" the problem - like anchoring a telephone pole crosswise to the current a foot below the surface; spud guns and the like.

The best are the guys that showed up in a hovercraft to get back into our marsh during duck season (we own the marsh, but if you can float your boat and stay in in, you are legal). We didn't consider running a hovercraft at 4:30 in the morning 75 yards from our house and "parking" it on what passes for dry ground. They are followed closely on our list by the guys that cruise all around at night bow fishing carp. They do this from a 20 foot boat with - and I am not exaggerating - 20 or so 500 watt hallogen flood lights powered by very noisy generators. So much for a quiet night out in nature. So I really do empathize.

In all cases, you really need to remember to keep your cool. Get too unpleasant, and you are likely to eventually get crosswise to some clown who will "show you" by burning your place down.

That said, I really doubt that you are being prevented from using your house, or even accessing the water from it. Do you mean to tell us that these boats are bunched in so desely and so close to your dock and that an "excuse me, can I get in to my dock" doesn't get you all the room you need?

The bvottom line is that the waterways are public and belong to all. The whole thing. Why should you have claim (emotional if not legal) to an area just because you happen to own a house on the edge of it. You don't own the view - they have just as much right to it as you do.

posted 11-08-2005 10:23 AM ET (US)            

Speaking personally, if I were grampas68 I'd be as annoyed as he at the circumstances he describes; but as a free-born American from the wild and wooly west, who always identified more with the cowboys and the free range advocates than the private property guys who came along with their barbed wire and hired gunslingers and carved up the land into private parcels, I gotta side with the fishermen. I remember a great story by John Steinbeck:

It's a hot summer day in rural Oregon. A hobo bumming his way across the country trudges down a dirt road alone, tired, hungry and thirsty, heading for a railhead where he can jump a freight. He comes upon a beautiful apple tree farm, climbs over a freshly painted wooden fence, picks five or six crisp, sweet, juicy apples and, munching on one, stretches out on the grass in the cool shade of one of the trees. Just then an angry farmer arrives and tells the hobo to 'Git the hell off my land!'

The hobo slowly stands, stretches to his full height, and asks, 'Why do you say that it's YOUR land?'

'It's my land 'cause I 'herited it from my Pa.'

'Yeah,' the hobo responds, 'Where did your father get it?'

'Why, he 'herited it from HIS Pa, and Gran'pa fought the redskins for it!' said the outraged farmer.

'Fine,' said the hobo, curling his work-worn hands into rock hard fists. 'I'll fight you for it.'
_________________________

Anyway, the legal compromise worked out here in California is similar to the ones discussed by folks on this thread pertaining to other states--a private property owner's rights to land abutting the ocean ends at the mean high tide mark, and river and lakefront property rights don't extend into the water...it's that simple. Sure, grandpas68 has every 'right' in the world to be angry at the situation, but the best solution, IMO, is to get to know the year-'round locals, and, when in Rome, do as the locals do. Good luck.

posted 11-08-2005 10:41 AM ET (US)            

That's why a permanent dock is more difficult to get a permit for on local lakes, as is having a seawall built.

As I said before, their behavior is rude, and you have a right to be upset, but you have no standing to get rid of them forcefully, and doing anything from your dock is probably not appropriate either.

As someone further up said - making friends with locals is a very important thing when you have a seasonal or weekend use home. The locals are the ones priced out of their own property (due to taxes, typically) and they have a bit of a bittersweet attitude about it all. Being a courteous "guest resident" may go a long way to help ease tensions with the locals.

posted 11-08-2005 12:26 PM ET (US)            

Here, based upon the wonderfully titled Public Trust Doctrine,
the water and land beneath is everyone's and the State grants riparian owners
the right to place a pier in the water if it falls within the guidelines
for width, length, etc...

Recently the regulations on piers have been amended or clarified
in an attempt to preclude large structures, like gazebos and decks,
from being included in the rights allowed for piers.

Repeatedly pulling in and out in your boat,
ostensibly going on short runabouts, may be an option
for moving them (and the fish) away from your dock.
But again, this activity most certainly wouldn't increase
your enjoyment and relaxation.

posted 11-08-2005 12:36 PM ET (US)            

We were being very quiet, no radio, very little talking. only the click of the spool and the plop of the spinner baits entering the water. This older fella suddenly comes stomping out of his recently purchased camp and starts screaming at us about being to close and that we needed to get out of there before he called the cops. I tried to be nice and reason with the guy. Let him know we were just fishing our way through and that we did have the "right" to do so.

He continues to get angry and starts writing down the reg number of my boat saying he's had enough and he's going to call the cops. That kinda ticked me off so I said fine and pulled in and tied up to his dock saying, "no problem bud, I'll wait right here for em". The guy went ballistic on me telling me he had me for trespassing and bla bla bla bla bla. I told him what my understanding of the laws of the State were then proceeded to build a small fire out of driftwood on the guys beach while he called the state police.

About a half hour later a trooper shows up and listens to the guys ranting and raving. He asks me if I agreed with that assesement and I said "sure, more or less".

The trooper then shows the guy the obvious high water mark on the beach and explains to him that he only "owns" up to that point and that I was breaking no laws being where I was including having my boat tied up to his dock.

He then turned to me and said, "make sure you extinguish that fire when you leave" and left.

As the trooper was leaving I mentioned to the camp owner that I knew for a fact that many of the people he might find fishing in front of his camp would handle the situation a bit differently and that he might want to be careful how he approached fisherman in the future. I put the fire out and we left.

posted 11-08-2005 01:04 PM ET (US)            

Of course, then he can't use his dock.

Would probably work for Great Lakes or Ocean frontage, but seems to have a very big drawback in this circumstance.

GNR-
Just a question on point of law - what about walking on the dock?? Was that a violation. Technically, the dock is his property, and the state/local authorities granted permission to locate that property on their land. I don't think the dock is considered public for use - or am I mistaken?

posted 11-08-2005 01:10 PM ET (US)            

"I just don't ever want to have to see them when I've come down to relax". If you live abutting public lands, you need to get used to the public using their land. Otherwise, you need to sell the property you currently own and purchase a large piece of property with a land locked lake.

You should be thankful that the state has retained ownership of the submerged lands and has not sold them to a developer who might restrict you from having a dock or accessing the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway (ICW).

posted 11-08-2005 01:44 PM ET (US)         

Michigan law regarding bottomlands is different for inland lakes than it is for the great lakes. On inland waters the property owner actually owns the bottom land to the middle of the lake (creating an interesting pie formation that meets in the middle). They can not obstruct passage or the use of the water. There are some exceptions to this if property was obtained long, long ago (in which case one person may own the whole bottom of the lake), but I think these exceptions are few and far between.

In the case of the great lakes, the bottom land is considered publically owned up to the high water mark. Thus the recent case where property owners wanted to restrict beach walking (but, lost the case).

If you're interested in the Michigan specific law I think I may have the information somewhere...

Bob

posted 11-08-2005 01:44 PM ET (US)            

Tony

posted 11-08-2005 02:07 PM ET (US)            

My experience has only been with Great Lakes access, since our cottage was in the Les Cheneaux Islands on Lake Huron - so the publicly owned bottomlands principle applied to us. We had trouble even clearing reeds for our docks some years due to red tape.

Wonder how it applies to inland lakes such as Mullet Lake and Lake Charlevoix, that are navigable to the big lakes?

posted 11-08-2005 05:49 PM ET (US)            

Waterfront property ownership should not be synonymous with wealth. Quite frankly, the Wealth in this country snubbed waterfront acreage for a long time.

Chicago's near north neighborhood called Streeterville (where the Hancock building, NBC Tower and Navy Pier all are) was named after the unauthorized shantytown founded by captain Streeter, and was where the very poor were located. Today, it is home to some of the most expensive real estate in the city. Donald Trump is building a condo tower not far from this district.

I know of several Islands you can buy for well under $100,000 US that are within 6 hours of a major North American city and financial center.

One would tend to think that that land is a premium investment opportunity, since 30 years from now, it will likely be in strong demand and highly valued.

So! Let's be careful on that front as well - waterfront property does not necessarily equate with owner wealth...it only means that the present owner has enough money to keep up with taxes on his/her land.

posted 11-08-2005 11:33 PM ET (US)            

Buckda said it well: "waterfront property does not necessarily equate with owner wealth...it only means that the present owner has enough money to keep up with taxes on his/her land". I personally fall into this category. Neither my father, nor I are personally wealthy although we both own waterfront homes. Our neighbors have common jobs and are not millionaires.

GNR makes a good point about being familiar with the state laws governing water bodies and the limits of state ownership in your particular state (these laws vary considerably from state to state).

posted 11-09-2005 12:56 AM ET (US)            

I don't spend all my time on the water you know ;-)

Last summer I averaged 25 hours/week fishing for Salmon and 25 hours/week golfing. Its dark and lonely work being retired, but someone has to do it.

posted 11-09-2005 01:41 AM ET (US)            

A gaggle of boats sitting all day fishing alongside a private dock is not a great joy for the dock owner.

Here's a Michigan anecdote of similar circumstances, which dates back about 20 years:

A co-worker had a place up north, south of Traverse City, a little home out in the woods with some surrounding acreage. A stream flowed through the property. He was a younger fellow, in his early twenties. I think he inherited the property from his mother, or something like that. In any case, he was a newcomer in the area.

One day he finds some guys fishing along the stream. He informs them they're on private property. They inform him that they are Indians and they will do whatever-the-F they please. (This is pretty much a universal attitude among the Indians I have met in the Great Lakes.)

The irony of this story is that as I write this the Indians of Michigan are engaged in a court battle with the State of Michigan which will affirm this attitude in law. Using the phrase describing the lands of the treaty being available to the Indians "until needed for settlement" which occurs in Article 13 of the Treaty of 1836, the Indians are on course to give themselves the rights to set up a tee-pee and camp out on your front yard if they feel like it, as long as the property is not within the city limits of an incorporated town or city. They are seeking the right to unlimited hunting and fishing on any inland lands covered by this treaty. I think this is preposterous, but I also think they have already won cases like this in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

posted 11-09-2005 02:00 AM ET (US)            

http://www.mfrcc.com/April2005.pdf

And another irony is that this action is being brought by the United States, acting as a "Trustee" and representative of the tribes against the State of Michigan. So Michigan landowners and taxpayers are paying taxes to the federal government taxes to finance the case on behalf of the Indians! And at the same time they are financing the State's case against the Indians. Only in America.

Among the lands and lakes included in this dispute are Higgins Lake, Mullet Lake, Burt Lake, Lake Charlevoix, Glen Lake, and Lake Leelanau. These lakes are among the most densely settled areas of Northern Michigan, typically with cottages ringing every inch of waterfront. However, most of these properties are not inside city limits.

posted 11-09-2005 12:24 PM ET (US)            

The fella's dock extended out into the "public" waters of the lake which makes it fair game. I never had to set foot on the gentlemans private property to access his dock. In fact, at that time of the year the low water levels required the entire dock to be below the mean highwater mark making it entirely in public "waters".

There have been cases where dock owners have been taken to court by other because of their docks causeing access problems.

posted 11-09-2005 01:16 PM ET (US)         

Further, perhaps you and your neighbors can extend your dock space (and dock volume sideways) to create a barrier between you and the boaters

On a lighter note- this might be a great time to get into a new hobby - like gas powered radio controlled boats and practice your new craft from the end of your dock.

3 or 4 hours of a high powered weed wacker circling the fishermen might level the playing field.

Or perhaps a few Mega-watt dock- mounted speakers aimed towards the offenders with your favorite Tiny Tim CD might get your point across..

posted 11-09-2005 04:51 PM ET (US)            

we could try some patience and tolerance and learn to live together.

posted 11-09-2005 07:17 PM ET (US)            

Why would I think people don't have the right to utilize
the water outside my pier.

posted 11-10-2005 12:13 AM ET (US)            

Your local gardens will really enjoy the pollination.

posted 11-10-2005 05:54 AM ET (US)            

You don't own the water, or the fish, and like it or not, the people that are fishing off your dock have as much right to be there as you do. This is your problem, not theirs, unless they are trashing your dock, (if in fact you own the dock and it was properly permitted when built, etc.)

Ignore it, and it will pass. Mess with them and you may be inviting a battle you can't win.

Loud music? plan on being awakened at 4 am to their version of what's music.

Sprinklers? I would figure that every gull in 4 counties will be fed on your dock. I would also plan on enjoying any left over bait, etc. being left on your dock.

Golf balls???? Give that suggestion a try and it will solve your problem. The first guy you hit will be the next owner of your waterfront home..............or what's left of it.

posted 11-10-2005 11:42 AM ET (US)            

CONCLUSION: If you buy and live on water front property, golf course, near a public market, football stadium or airport DO NOT complain about users who have been there longer than you have - - - GO to a gated community and then you can keep "those people" away from your domain and out of your life . . .

DISCUSSION:
Lakes, oceans and streams should have public access perhaps with 25ft buffer to private land. This is consistent with new trend for river front development in most cities.

I grew up in Michigan where, for example. Lake Michigan beaches are freaking fenced off to the public which I believe is stupid, against the law and unfriendly.

I lived in Oregon for many years where I never saw a fenced off beach or river. The only thing that ever stopped my wading PWN rivers was 1) impossible white water or falls w/ 2) basalt shear rock walls.

In Michigan, goat ropers will fence off their little piece of river front heaven often driving fence posts into the waterway extending wire fences 10 or more feet into the river thus preventing foot traffic along the trails of Chief Pontiac and Chief Okemos.

In Oregon I don't think I ever saw fenced off river frontage so anglers, boaters etc could access the bank if necessary and certainly walk along the bank unaccosted by wire fences.

I didn't fish for the first several years I returned to my home state because of assholes mostly from the city who took all their money power to our trout, steelhead, salmon and small mouth rivers and put up their expensive fences.

I was stunned and did not enjoy going out anymore especially after one incident on the Rogue R near Grand Rapids. My wife and I were bushwacking for steelhead between two bridges, high water conditions. We had to go past a house right on the bend of the river located on sort of a point. In normal conditions it is possible to slowly wade through while casting to holding water. On this particular day, it was too high to wade.

I am a strong enough wader to have made the deep pool plus I am 6 ft tall - however, my wife is 5"2" and she could not. So we got out of the river and and had the gaul to tip tow on Mr Jerk Ass's holy ground. This rotten bastard came running out of his house, in his bathrobe, on a Sunday started swearing at us to get off his XXX land and all that. I tried to reason with MR Green Freaking Acres and told him I didn't not feel like drowning my wife that morning - no mercy and I thought he was going to throw down and was ready to cast a tight loop around his neck or a #5 weighted spinner between his bloodshot, pus eyes.

WE just proceeded to safe water while his big filthy mouth echoed off the forest.

Ridculous - - the water ways should be open - river banks and beaches to the public -- I have heard in public forums that "we need to keep those people away . . ."

I am one of those people. I lived in the most livable city and state in the country. I now live in a state that is "48th on the list of desirable states to move to . . ." and we are losing population and businesses.

If you have read this far perhaps there is a solution. Open the beaches and respect public access to all streams and lakes.

posted 11-11-2005 11:46 AM ET (US)            

A homeowner's association here in Central Florida did not pay their property taxes on the common land for the community which included the area around the central lake. During the annual land tax sale by the county, a man bought the rights to this land for the tax value and proceeded to install an 8' fence on his new land. The lakefront owners had to buy back the rights to the land with an exaggerated value to gain their lake view back.

I am not sure all of these details are correct since it has been a few years since I read about it, but it was amusing to see the actions of all involved.

Another situation I believe was in Daytona Beach was with the noise pollution from all the waverunners. The solution was for the county (or city?) to create "motorized water craft free zones" near residential beach areas. This coincided with the creation of water vehicle parks along the coast especially for the wave runners.

posted 11-11-2005 01:58 PM ET (US)            

You would'nt be near the old Wyanoke property would you. I went to camp there in the 60-70's and also learned to sail at WBC. My grandmothers lived on Everett Ave and Lewis Road in Winchester.

posted 11-12-2005 09:58 AM ET (US)            

We are at the northern tip of Winter Harbor. When you are about to enter the basin you can see our house with the green roof to your right. I am not near the Wyanoke property. If your grandmothers are from Everett Ave in Winchester you come from good stock. We are in the little houses portion of East Hill Winchester near Medford.

posted 11-12-2005 10:49 AM ET (US)            

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_15383-31738--,00.html

Don't Fence Me Out!!

People need to lighten up and build relationships, neighbors etc. I remember years ago when I rode my quarter horse nearly every day - we used to trail ride intensely and often crossed private farm land following the rules to stay on the edges of the fields. IN any case this 120 acre farm sold and one day several of us were going back to the woods on the land we had been riding for years - and the new owner, we left greetings and invite sheet in his mailbox he never replied to came flying out on a tractor with a shotgun yelling "get off my xxx land!" We rode right up to him and tried to talk to him but Rambo had other ideas. Of course he had the right to ask us to leave but I explained to him that guys like us help watch over his land and to back off. No chance with that jerk until the cops found a stolen car ring out there and a hobo camp neither one existed prior to his kicking trail riders off his land.

posted 11-12-2005 11:08 AM ET (US)            

Artist: Craig Morgan
Song : Redneck Yacht Club

Lyrics:

i'm meeting my buddies out on the lake
we're headin out to a special place
we love that just a few folks know
there's no signing up, no monthly dues
take your johnson, your mercury or your evinrude and fire it up
meet us out at party cove
come on in' the waters fine
just idle on over and toss us a line

(Chorus)
basstrackers, bayliners and a party barge,
strung together like a floating trailer park anchored out and gettin loud
all summer long side by side there's five
houseboat front porches astroturf,
lawn chairs and tiki torches
regular joes rocking the boat that's us
the redneck yacht club

bermuda's' flip-flops and a tank top tan
popped his first top at ten a.m., thats bob
he's our president
we're checking out the girls on the upper deck rubbin' in 15 spf, its hot
everybody's jumpin' in
later on when the sun goes down
we'll pull out the jar and the old guitar
and pass'em around

(Chorus)
basstrackers, bayliners and a party barge,
strung together like a floating trailer park anchored out and gettin loud
all summer long side by side there's five
houseboat front porches astroturf,
lawn chairs and tiki torches
regular joes rocking the boat that's us
the redneck yacht club

when the party's over and we're all alone
well be making waves in a no wake zone

(Chorus)
basstrackers, bayliners and a party barge,
strung together like a floating trailer park anchored out and gettin loud
all summer long side by side there's five
houseboat front porches astroturf,
lawn chairs and tiki torches
regular joes rocking the boat that's us
the redneck yacht club

LOL

posted 11-13-2005 09:53 AM ET (US)            

Since we always slept with the windows open in the summertime (and they were only about 50' away from the house), you could hear plainly as they whooped, hollered, belched, farted and otherwise acted like they were at "deer camp" (a la Escanaba in Da Moonlight) in the North woods...instead of in the middle of suburbia.

I always yelled out "Hey can I get you guys some coffee or breakfast?" That usually shut them up, because suddenly they realized they were actually in a populated area...not the wilderness. I always wished I could go to their homes, sit on their front lawn and make noise at all hours without any repercussions.

I know that they have a legal right to be there...as a riparian property owner, my property officially ends at the waterline...but many people are so unbelievably rude and inconsiderate.

I support access to public waterways...as a boater and fisherman, that is very important to me. But, in my mind, there is a flip side...that access needs to be "considerate and appropriate". Just my .02...

posted 11-14-2005 12:31 PM ET (US)            

If you can hear the guy's fart then I'm guessing the "hooting and hollering" may be more like talking back and forth in normal tones for the situation.

The real reason you are being disturbed is because you are trying to sleep RIGHT NEXT TO a public waterway.

Live and left live.

If you want to ensure your morning sleep is not interrupted then buy a place which will allow you enough buffer between your bed and the nearest public property.

Course then you'd have to something about those damn birds that start their infernal racket at sunrise.

posted 11-14-2005 01:05 PM ET (US)            

With all due respect.

Two fisherman talking and farting in their boat is far from rude.

Yelling and screaming and crankin' the tunes in the early hours of the morning probably would be.

posted 11-14-2005 04:27 PM ET (US)            

The lake I lived on was 1 mile long and 1/2 mile wide (465 acres to be precise). It had over 300 homes fronting on it and those homeowners paid significantly higher property taxes than their neighbors who weren't directly on the lake. At last count, there were over 600 boats permanently moored on the lake. The vast majority of those boats and boaters rarely caused a noise or behavior problem...especially not at 5 a.m.

Because...let's see if you can get this, because it's complicated...they were considerate!

This lake has a Michigan DNR public acess site where the "public" can launch a boat on this "public waterway". This access site has 32 parking spaces...when those spaces are full, no more boats are allowed on the lake until someone leaves and vacates a space.

So bascially what you are saying is that 32 boats full of the "public" can come in and behave however they want because it is a "public waterway". Give me a break. Like I said, a little consideration goes a long way.

Tom

posted 11-15-2005 05:35 AM ET (US)            

I chose to live on the water a long time ago. In Annapolis I frequently was awakened by the USNA early morning rowing practice. Such is life on the H2O.

In Florida the sound of fisherman, crabbers, commercial giggers, is common stuff. It still beats the sounds of garbage trucks, subways, taxi's, fire engines, etc. It also beats the sounds of 125 mph hurricanes.

I pay higher taxes so I should be more entitled to my sleep? hahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Sounds a little like the driver that says, I own a BMW so I should be able to go faster.

Some people that live on the water, should not. But I suspect they could find something to be po'd about.

I really think the genuine offer for some coffee will go a long way to greater and quieter enjoyment of your waterfront estate.

posted 11-15-2005 12:44 PM ET (US)            

Wow, I was fishing a long time before I got a boat and will be hopefully be fishing a long after I'm too old to boat.

Early morning farting in a fishing boat is like a walkman to a jogger or tight shorts to a biker. It's just natural!

We also have waterfront property. Commercial 40' fishing boats throw a wake up over our docks all the time. We've also found beer bottles (not our brand) on our landing on the river bank.

If it ever gets too much for us, we will wait until the fall when the leaves start to change. By this time the commercial season is over, trout season is closed and the jet skis have all gone back to Hades where they came from. We will advertise the cottage in a mainland newspaper and get top dollar for it. Then we’ll move far inland up behind a Wallymart somewhere and live out our days in peace and quiet.

LOL

posted 11-15-2005 06:54 PM ET (US)            

I don't like anybody looking in my windows and farting in my back yard but, if you live there live with it. Most of my homes have been on the water so it does't bother me enough.

posted 11-16-2005 11:07 AM ET (US)            

In a word, yes.

Within the bounds of the law of course.

Your higher property taxes don't mean that I have to walk on pins and needles while involved in a legal activity on a public area which happens to border your property.

You are absolutly right when you say a little consideration goes a long way. I couldn't agree more. The problem lies in the definition of the phrase 'a little consideration'. I think to some lake front property owners that phrase means stay away from my lakefront and if you do have to come by don't make the slightest noise.

Consideration is a two way street.