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Author Topic:   Righting an Inverted Boston Whaler at Sea.

Boatplans posted 05-25-2006 07:42 AM ET (US)
Several years ago, a company in Huntsville, Alabama, as I remember it was Wiley Labs, tested a bunch of boats for the Coast Guard. I recall the project because the test boats were sold to the public. I have a memory of boats sitting around the buildings during and after the project.
Members of this forum would be interested in what was done, if we can find out. Perhaps a Whaler was tested and could be compared with other boats. However, there is a good chance the Coast Guard would not be permitted to divulge that kind of information.
If my memory is correct, there should be detailed documentation somewhere on these Coast Guard sponsored tests. A search of Continuous Wave found references to Coast Guard regulations, perhaps derived from them. There is also a good chance the engineer and employees who did the testing are still around Huntsville. If I find them, I have a few questions. Meanwhile, other discussions in this forum have raised the problem of the floatation design. What is the objective of the floatation? If it is to keep the gunwales level, could it not actually cause problems once the boat is inverted?
Whalers, like other boats, roll over when full of water, spilling occupants into the open water. The venerable Boston Whaler washes up in the serf, or drifts all the way to England … inverted … crewmembers nowhere to be found. One person in this forum acknowledged that a person in the water near an inverted boat is not better off than had the boat simply sunk. A person swimming in the ocean near an inverted boat has a problem.
My first thought is what does it take to roll a Boston Whaler upright? There is a technique for this associated with fishing dories on western rivers. I understand licensed boatmen for hire are required in some states to demonstrate it. Though I am not a professional boatman, I have practiced rolling my dory upright and bailing it out for my own good. I am thinking of trying it with my Boston Whaler. I have never read anything about Whaler owners exploring the possibility of righting an inverted Boston Whaler at sea and self rescuing. Has it been done? Can it be done?
John

deepwater posted 05-25-2006 07:48 AM ET (US)
Hey boatplans ,,We knocked that subject around in here a while ago and some suggestions were posted ,, However if you uncover other info that could help we all would like to hear it
Sheila posted 05-25-2006 09:24 AM ET (US)
With all due respect (and it is considerable)...I'd much prefer to be in the water in the vicinity of a capsized hull than not (assuming I must be in the water at all).
The hull may provide a surface upon which to climb, reducing contact with cold water. It's also much easier to spot a hull in the water than it is to spot a person in the water.
I'm wondering: up to what LOA might a person reasonably expect to be able to right an overturned hull?
neil_t_us posted 05-25-2006 09:46 AM ET (US)
"The venerable Boston Whaler washes up in the serf, or drifts all the way to England … inverted … crewmembers nowhere to be found."
I believe your citing that pretty beat up whaler that was a dinghy to a large ship out of england. I don't believe there were any crew members lost during that incident. I may be wrong though.
I am with Sheila on this, a crew is not going to flip a whaler over once its inverted or any other boat for that matter. Heck, its tough to flip an aluminum boat over with 2-250 pound guys out of water.
PeteB88 posted 05-25-2006 10:40 AM ET (US)
Boatplans - Interesting stuff.
If you decide to do this, please video tape the effort/procedure, dump it to Quicktime and post. FLipping catamarans and sailboats under 20 ft or so is common - but I don't know about Whalers.
I was around western riverboatmen and river boats for many years and never heard of any requirement for outfitters or guides for hire to be able to roll a drift boat or raft upright. That would be specific to Oregon and WA state, however I was close enough to the industry that if such rules existed I would have probably have known about it. That's been a few years ago now so maybe there are new regs.
In my personal experience rowing rafts and drift boats the number one requirement is that all passengers and oarsman wear whitewater rated PFD, be instructed on how to prevent a raft or riverboat from flipping ("high side!!!") and if tossed out or boat flips how to drift with the current downstream, on your back, head high, feet first to kick off the rocks if necessary, backferrying with your arms to control your position until you reach the river bank. Most boaters carry throw bags for rescue. But as to trying to roll an overturned whitewater boat; you would have to wait until the boat cleared the fast water, wound up on shore or in an eddy current or somewhere along the river where the current slows down.
Certainly it can be done in fast water and experienced oarsman know how to position a boat so the fast water helps them flip but it is not for rookies. We would instruct passengers to get away from a flipped boat so they would not be pinned between the boat and a rock which could kill them. If anyone has ever heard of Mark Angel who used to salvage river boats off rocks in heavy white water in Oregon or seen him do it you would never forget. Extremely complicated procedure requiring guts and brawn.
I am interested in the maker of your dory.
Buckda posted 05-25-2006 12:40 PM ET (US)
Perhaps a 13 or 15 foot Whaler could be righted by a crew of one or two.
I have overturned two boats in my life. (Both before I was 18 years old, and still a bit reckless). The first was a Vegabond 14' Sailboat (made by Hobie) that I 'turtled' while learning how to (or rather, how not to) sail.
Righting this boat required me to stand on the daggerboard for leverage while pulling on a line rigged midway up the mast. That's a lot of leverage, that I don't think you'd get on a 13' Whaler (no daggerboard, no mast).
The second, a very "tippy" aluminum rowboat with motor, I could not overturn from the water, and needed to drag the boat to shore/shallow water where I could stand on the bottom (waist deep) and overturn the hull. It still required some leverage from extra lines tied to the far side of the hull.
I agree with Sheila. Much easier to spot the white overturned hull in a sea of blue than a single orange dot of a swimmer with PFD on...and an overturned hull does provide you the opportunity to get out of the water - either for warmth, or protection...depending on where you roll the boat.
Dave
boatdryver posted 05-25-2006 01:02 PM ET (US)
I once had to right my turtled Hobie 16 Catamaran on a wild day. It took two of us using the pre-rigged retractible righting ropes under the trampoline, which were ready to use. (I was glad that day that I had bought them). It was not easy to right the boat with the main sail up underwater and the tall mast pointing toward China.
In thinking about a small whaler, say an 11 or 13 with side rails, I can see how one big person might be able to put his feet on the near side rail under water and pull on a line fastened to the opposite side rail and right the boat, which might then come down on top of his head. With a 13 it might take two big people as the motors are starting to get heavier and the beam increases.
This would be a fun project for some warm water whaler owner with large teen age sons. Please let us know if it works.
The problem we had with the Hobie was that due to the conditions, once we had the boat righted it capsized again in about 20 seconds and we had to repeat the procedure. We got real tired real fast. Luckily, its easy to stay on a capsized Hobie. We eventually got back to the car and warmed up. Practice makes perfect!
JimL
The Judge posted 05-25-2006 01:41 PM ET (US)
I righted a 13' once that a girl flipped with my 2 friends in it. We dragged it to about 2' of water and then flipped it back over. With 3 teenagers it was not an easy task. Would not be possible if you could not stand up.
When I was also younger the Barnegat Light CG had an older 21' revenge that was TOTALLY stripped. They would dump it in front of the station inverted and do drills on it. Not sure what kind of drills but it was neat that they used a whaler. Feel sorry for the sap who bought that one at an auction.
pglein posted 05-25-2006 03:19 PM ET (US)
A 13' Whaler will NOT flip over just becuase it is full of water. A large wave may capsize it, but it won't just do it on it's own.
Righting it is not that difficult if you have any sense about you. I've done it before. It's not something I'd want to do in gale force winds or freezing cold water, but it can be done, and you don't have to drag it into 2' of water to do it.
crabby posted 05-25-2006 07:00 PM ET (US)
We were surfing the waves in Fire Island Inlet one summer day, 3 of us in a modified 13 whaler that was tiller steered. One guy driving, two of us standing and hanging onto a line strung from the norman pin. Well, a big wave caught us and we perled (basically it sucked us down from behind, the old 40 couldn't pull us out of it). The boat went over, spilling all the gear and us. It only took us a few minutes to flip it back upright and grab the coolers and anything else that was floating nearby; we were in probably about 8 feet of water and had drifted out of the breaker line by then. Couldn't get the motor started, so one of the boats fishing nearby towed us into the beach.
Someone also called the coasties and they were non too happy when they pulled up to the beach half an hour later.
I don't know how easy it would be to right my Montauk...
PeteB88 posted 05-25-2006 07:26 PM ET (US)
awesome
crabby posted 05-25-2006 11:13 PM ET (US)
I should mention that the dunking was only half unexpected. We all surfed (on regular boards) and played quite a bit in the water with our various crafts, and the way it went over was almost in slow motion, with my buddy and myself scrambling for the front of the boat to try to offset the wave and keep us on plane, and at the last minute we ditched and tryed to grab all the fishing gear as we knew it wouldn't float (unlike the coolers and gas tank).
Sounds crazier than it was, the worst thing was losing the poles and tackle boxes. The motor was easy to fix once back on shore. I'm glad I never tried that stuff in my old tin boat; now I just anchor at the foot of breakers in the inlet while I sit and fish ( in the Montauk).
17 bodega posted 05-26-2006 01:43 AM ET (US)
In water deeper than a person can stand up in I don't think anything less than a huge vessel with a crane can right it. By some wild stroke of luck, a capsized montauk or similar boat could get into a wave trough and flip again, righing itself, but without power, it would be at risk of capsizing again. I suppose virtually anythings possible in the ocean, but I would think the chances are near zero in deep water to right a boat with only manpower.
A couple years ago when the montauk capsized near Duxbury reef (pacific ocean near Frisco), the boat had to be towed to a marina and lifted with a crane and lowered slowly while the stern was pulled back as to right the boat. A task that had to be done slowly with several men participating. A couple of guys in the ocean bobbing around in 50 degree water might have better luck pulling a camel through a needle.
JayR posted 05-26-2006 01:09 PM ET (US)
My friend saw this thread and told me not to worry about righting the hull.
"The world rotates around you Whaler guys. Just wait and the rest of the world will come around soon enough and leave you all right side up again"
LOL!!!!!!
Jay A posted 06-01-2006 09:38 PM ET (US)
Most Whaler deaths are due to capsizing.Luckily it's frequency is few and far between.A year or two ago two men were lost just north of here when the operator mis-judged the current and tide action at the mouth of the Merrimac River. Speculation was that they probably would have survived if they were able to stay with and were able to climb atop the overturned Whaler.
deepwater posted 06-01-2006 09:54 PM ET (US)
Not that i will try to do it with my montauk,, I still believe that if a sea anchor is deployed and the boat is turned in to the waves ,,force applied to the sides as the waves roll by (like in a screw) might help roll a boat over.
dfmcintyre posted 06-01-2006 10:09 PM ET (US)
This could be an interesting experiment, if someone would be willing to do the wet work. Righting in shallow water is almost a no brainer. What I would want to find out, is the boat righatable in deep water....
Based on my experiences in 16, 18 Hobies and a 20 Supercat, a righting line (or two?) would be mandatory. If a line was attached to the far side gunnel (tied to the vertical stanchion of the grab rail on a typical 13', for example) and run across the hull and held by one or two decent sized guys that are standing, (rather precariously, by the way) on the lip of the gunnel, there might be enough righting moment to flip it up.
I think the trick would be to be able to keep standing, while working up hand over hand the righting line. One could envision a monkey (or two) on meth having the agility required.
All we need is a volunteer.....
Don
Sheila posted 06-12-2006 09:50 PM ET (US)
Here are the directions from the USCG Boat Crew Seamanship Manual, COMDINST M16114.5 B
Righting a capsized power boat
Any attempt you make to right a capsized vessel must be carefully thought through before beginning. You must make absolutely certain that all crew members from the distressed vessel are accounted for before beginning any procedure to right the vessel. Survivors may be trapped inside the overturned hull.

Approach a disabled craft cautiously, watching for debris that may damage your boat or foul its propellers.

Righting boats by parbuckling (most common method)
Approach the capsized boat cautiously. Keep clear of all lines and debris in the water.
Account for all personnel from the capsized craft.
Recover all personnel from the water and provide them with PFDs.
Select a crew member to enter the water to prepare the boat for righting.
Direct a crew member to secure your towing bridle or mooring lines to the nearest gunwale of the capsized boat.
Then a person in the water leads bridle lines or mooring lines OVER the keel and down under the boat. Ensure that these lines are outboard of all handrails, lifelines, and stanchions. The run the bridle back to your tow line, or run the mooring lines to your boats rear quarter cleats.
Recover the swimmer from the water.
Pay out enough tow line to prevent the boat from hitting your stern during righting and towing, then secure the tow line.
Gradually add power to your boat and increase speed. The boat should right itself.
Bring the righted boat alongside your boat and dewater using the most appropriate method.
Take in tow astern or alongside as sea state warrants.

Sheila posted 06-12-2006 10:58 PM ET (US)
It's important to note that TWO lines go to the distressed vessel, one forward and one aft. You basically want to drag the boat sideways through the water and let the resistance of the near gunwale cause it to flip back upright.
pglein posted 06-13-2006 01:02 PM ET (US)
I don't know why you guys keep saying it would be impossible to right a 13' Whaler. I'm telling you that I've done it (in deep water), and it wasn't even that hard.
I can't speak for the larger, deeper V hulls, but the 13' is MUCH more stable when rightside up than upside down, making it pretty easy to right with a righting line.
If you have any experience sailing in small boats, you know how to right a boat. Righting the Whaler was not much more difficult.
hardensheetmetal posted 06-13-2006 03:38 PM ET (US)
As Deepwater pointed out, we covered the pors and cons of righting a 13 in a nother thread a while back.
Crabby-
Your story is like dejavu to me, exactly as it happened to myself and a friend, except almost all of our stuff sayed up in the boat. As Pglein points out, it was much easier to right the boat than expected (it may have been do to an adrenalin rush,... knowing the CG would find and scold us, we developed super human strength and were able to flip the hull)
Dan
hardensheetmetal posted 06-14-2006 06:41 AM ET (US)
That would be 'pros' and cons, and 'another'. My fingers type faster than my brain.
Dan
HawaiinWaterman posted 03-05-2009 01:40 AM ET (US)
Missing Boater Strategy:
You could easily right the Whaler or any boat up to 20 ft or above (A Un-Sinkable boat) simply by bailing the water from the overturned hull creating a larger air pocket. After you have adjusted the air pocket you would have to remove the canapee or glass top with a knife or screw driver to lighten the load. The boat with a largely bail air pocket using a bucket, cooler or tied clothing would provide for the overturned boat to raise nearly 2 feet in the water given that the entire hull is filled with air and bailed correctly. Then the boat must be correctly aligned to the swell direction with missing boaters tied off to the opposite side of the swell with ropes over the boat for leverage. This will allow the swell direction to push the boat towards the boaters for leverage as well. With the leverage of the ocean swell as well as the roping and a bailed hull full of air would allow for a correctly timed flip. The key is to have more then one boater probably at least two experience water men one at the hull and stern to flip the boat upright using the leverage of the sea and the placement of the ropes. As a larger swell approached the flipped boat u could rock the air filled hull in order to time it with the swell to push and pull the boat over just like canoe surfing using the force of a large swell "rogue Swell". I have accomplished this feat in San Diego while surfing "Dolphin Tanks" off of the Pt. Loma cliffs near dark in very sharky waters, the most important aspect is to have experience in the water; had the three of us not had this at "Mini Waimiae" nearly a mile a drift off San Diego harbor we would have never flipped the boat. Bailing was the key as well as our experience in rough seas, we were surfing waves in a boat that is considered unflippable both ways. I believe that the boat flipped in the gulf could have easily been righted by an experienced waterman by calming the large players and most importantly bailing the air pocket in the hull. The large men could have righted the boat easily, not to mention paid for the SOS Beacon for less then $1,000 USD. The whole story is sad and shows a overall lack of waterman skills... God bless their soles and families...

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Author	Topic: Righting an Inverted Boston Whaler at Sea.
Boatplans	posted 05-25-2006 07:42 AM ET (US) Several years ago, a company in Huntsville, Alabama, as I remember it was Wiley Labs, tested a bunch of boats for the Coast Guard. I recall the project because the test boats were sold to the public. I have a memory of boats sitting around the buildings during and after the project. Members of this forum would be interested in what was done, if we can find out. Perhaps a Whaler was tested and could be compared with other boats. However, there is a good chance the Coast Guard would not be permitted to divulge that kind of information. If my memory is correct, there should be detailed documentation somewhere on these Coast Guard sponsored tests. A search of Continuous Wave found references to Coast Guard regulations, perhaps derived from them. There is also a good chance the engineer and employees who did the testing are still around Huntsville. If I find them, I have a few questions. Meanwhile, other discussions in this forum have raised the problem of the floatation design. What is the objective of the floatation? If it is to keep the gunwales level, could it not actually cause problems once the boat is inverted? Whalers, like other boats, roll over when full of water, spilling occupants into the open water. The venerable Boston Whaler washes up in the serf, or drifts all the way to England … inverted … crewmembers nowhere to be found. One person in this forum acknowledged that a person in the water near an inverted boat is not better off than had the boat simply sunk. A person swimming in the ocean near an inverted boat has a problem. My first thought is what does it take to roll a Boston Whaler upright? There is a technique for this associated with fishing dories on western rivers. I understand licensed boatmen for hire are required in some states to demonstrate it. Though I am not a professional boatman, I have practiced rolling my dory upright and bailing it out for my own good. I am thinking of trying it with my Boston Whaler. I have never read anything about Whaler owners exploring the possibility of righting an inverted Boston Whaler at sea and self rescuing. Has it been done? Can it be done? John
deepwater	posted 05-25-2006 07:48 AM ET (US) Hey boatplans ,,We knocked that subject around in here a while ago and some suggestions were posted ,, However if you uncover other info that could help we all would like to hear it
Sheila	posted 05-25-2006 09:24 AM ET (US) With all due respect (and it is considerable)...I'd much prefer to be in the water in the vicinity of a capsized hull than not (assuming I must be in the water at all). The hull may provide a surface upon which to climb, reducing contact with cold water. It's also much easier to spot a hull in the water than it is to spot a person in the water. I'm wondering: up to what LOA might a person reasonably expect to be able to right an overturned hull?
neil_t_us	posted 05-25-2006 09:46 AM ET (US) "The venerable Boston Whaler washes up in the serf, or drifts all the way to England … inverted … crewmembers nowhere to be found." I believe your citing that pretty beat up whaler that was a dinghy to a large ship out of england. I don't believe there were any crew members lost during that incident. I may be wrong though. I am with Sheila on this, a crew is not going to flip a whaler over once its inverted or any other boat for that matter. Heck, its tough to flip an aluminum boat over with 2-250 pound guys out of water.
PeteB88	posted 05-25-2006 10:40 AM ET (US) Boatplans - Interesting stuff. If you decide to do this, please video tape the effort/procedure, dump it to Quicktime and post. FLipping catamarans and sailboats under 20 ft or so is common - but I don't know about Whalers. I was around western riverboatmen and river boats for many years and never heard of any requirement for outfitters or guides for hire to be able to roll a drift boat or raft upright. That would be specific to Oregon and WA state, however I was close enough to the industry that if such rules existed I would have probably have known about it. That's been a few years ago now so maybe there are new regs. In my personal experience rowing rafts and drift boats the number one requirement is that all passengers and oarsman wear whitewater rated PFD, be instructed on how to prevent a raft or riverboat from flipping ("high side!!!") and if tossed out or boat flips how to drift with the current downstream, on your back, head high, feet first to kick off the rocks if necessary, backferrying with your arms to control your position until you reach the river bank. Most boaters carry throw bags for rescue. But as to trying to roll an overturned whitewater boat; you would have to wait until the boat cleared the fast water, wound up on shore or in an eddy current or somewhere along the river where the current slows down. Certainly it can be done in fast water and experienced oarsman know how to position a boat so the fast water helps them flip but it is not for rookies. We would instruct passengers to get away from a flipped boat so they would not be pinned between the boat and a rock which could kill them. If anyone has ever heard of Mark Angel who used to salvage river boats off rocks in heavy white water in Oregon or seen him do it you would never forget. Extremely complicated procedure requiring guts and brawn. I am interested in the maker of your dory.
Buckda	posted 05-25-2006 12:40 PM ET (US) Perhaps a 13 or 15 foot Whaler could be righted by a crew of one or two. I have overturned two boats in my life. (Both before I was 18 years old, and still a bit reckless). The first was a Vegabond 14' Sailboat (made by Hobie) that I 'turtled' while learning how to (or rather, how not to) sail. Righting this boat required me to stand on the daggerboard for leverage while pulling on a line rigged midway up the mast. That's a lot of leverage, that I don't think you'd get on a 13' Whaler (no daggerboard, no mast). The second, a very "tippy" aluminum rowboat with motor, I could not overturn from the water, and needed to drag the boat to shore/shallow water where I could stand on the bottom (waist deep) and overturn the hull. It still required some leverage from extra lines tied to the far side of the hull. I agree with Sheila. Much easier to spot the white overturned hull in a sea of blue than a single orange dot of a swimmer with PFD on...and an overturned hull does provide you the opportunity to get out of the water - either for warmth, or protection...depending on where you roll the boat. Dave
boatdryver	posted 05-25-2006 01:02 PM ET (US) I once had to right my turtled Hobie 16 Catamaran on a wild day. It took two of us using the pre-rigged retractible righting ropes under the trampoline, which were ready to use. (I was glad that day that I had bought them). It was not easy to right the boat with the main sail up underwater and the tall mast pointing toward China. In thinking about a small whaler, say an 11 or 13 with side rails, I can see how one big person might be able to put his feet on the near side rail under water and pull on a line fastened to the opposite side rail and right the boat, which might then come down on top of his head. With a 13 it might take two big people as the motors are starting to get heavier and the beam increases. This would be a fun project for some warm water whaler owner with large teen age sons. Please let us know if it works. The problem we had with the Hobie was that due to the conditions, once we had the boat righted it capsized again in about 20 seconds and we had to repeat the procedure. We got real tired real fast. Luckily, its easy to stay on a capsized Hobie. We eventually got back to the car and warmed up. Practice makes perfect! JimL
The Judge	posted 05-25-2006 01:41 PM ET (US) I righted a 13' once that a girl flipped with my 2 friends in it. We dragged it to about 2' of water and then flipped it back over. With 3 teenagers it was not an easy task. Would not be possible if you could not stand up. When I was also younger the Barnegat Light CG had an older 21' revenge that was TOTALLY stripped. They would dump it in front of the station inverted and do drills on it. Not sure what kind of drills but it was neat that they used a whaler. Feel sorry for the sap who bought that one at an auction.
pglein	posted 05-25-2006 03:19 PM ET (US) A 13' Whaler will NOT flip over just becuase it is full of water. A large wave may capsize it, but it won't just do it on it's own. Righting it is not that difficult if you have any sense about you. I've done it before. It's not something I'd want to do in gale force winds or freezing cold water, but it can be done, and you don't have to drag it into 2' of water to do it.
crabby	posted 05-25-2006 07:00 PM ET (US) We were surfing the waves in Fire Island Inlet one summer day, 3 of us in a modified 13 whaler that was tiller steered. One guy driving, two of us standing and hanging onto a line strung from the norman pin. Well, a big wave caught us and we perled (basically it sucked us down from behind, the old 40 couldn't pull us out of it). The boat went over, spilling all the gear and us. It only took us a few minutes to flip it back upright and grab the coolers and anything else that was floating nearby; we were in probably about 8 feet of water and had drifted out of the breaker line by then. Couldn't get the motor started, so one of the boats fishing nearby towed us into the beach. Someone also called the coasties and they were non too happy when they pulled up to the beach half an hour later. I don't know how easy it would be to right my Montauk...
PeteB88	posted 05-25-2006 07:26 PM ET (US) awesome
crabby	posted 05-25-2006 11:13 PM ET (US) I should mention that the dunking was only half unexpected. We all surfed (on regular boards) and played quite a bit in the water with our various crafts, and the way it went over was almost in slow motion, with my buddy and myself scrambling for the front of the boat to try to offset the wave and keep us on plane, and at the last minute we ditched and tryed to grab all the fishing gear as we knew it wouldn't float (unlike the coolers and gas tank). Sounds crazier than it was, the worst thing was losing the poles and tackle boxes. The motor was easy to fix once back on shore. I'm glad I never tried that stuff in my old tin boat; now I just anchor at the foot of breakers in the inlet while I sit and fish ( in the Montauk).
17 bodega	posted 05-26-2006 01:43 AM ET (US) In water deeper than a person can stand up in I don't think anything less than a huge vessel with a crane can right it. By some wild stroke of luck, a capsized montauk or similar boat could get into a wave trough and flip again, righing itself, but without power, it would be at risk of capsizing again. I suppose virtually anythings possible in the ocean, but I would think the chances are near zero in deep water to right a boat with only manpower. A couple years ago when the montauk capsized near Duxbury reef (pacific ocean near Frisco), the boat had to be towed to a marina and lifted with a crane and lowered slowly while the stern was pulled back as to right the boat. A task that had to be done slowly with several men participating. A couple of guys in the ocean bobbing around in 50 degree water might have better luck pulling a camel through a needle.
JayR	posted 05-26-2006 01:09 PM ET (US) My friend saw this thread and told me not to worry about righting the hull. "The world rotates around you Whaler guys. Just wait and the rest of the world will come around soon enough and leave you all right side up again" LOL!!!!!!
Jay A	posted 06-01-2006 09:38 PM ET (US) Most Whaler deaths are due to capsizing.Luckily it's frequency is few and far between.A year or two ago two men were lost just north of here when the operator mis-judged the current and tide action at the mouth of the Merrimac River. Speculation was that they probably would have survived if they were able to stay with and were able to climb atop the overturned Whaler.
deepwater	posted 06-01-2006 09:54 PM ET (US) Not that i will try to do it with my montauk,, I still believe that if a sea anchor is deployed and the boat is turned in to the waves ,,force applied to the sides as the waves roll by (like in a screw) might help roll a boat over.
dfmcintyre	posted 06-01-2006 10:09 PM ET (US) This could be an interesting experiment, if someone would be willing to do the wet work. Righting in shallow water is almost a no brainer. What I would want to find out, is the boat righatable in deep water.... Based on my experiences in 16, 18 Hobies and a 20 Supercat, a righting line (or two?) would be mandatory. If a line was attached to the far side gunnel (tied to the vertical stanchion of the grab rail on a typical 13', for example) and run across the hull and held by one or two decent sized guys that are standing, (rather precariously, by the way) on the lip of the gunnel, there might be enough righting moment to flip it up. I think the trick would be to be able to keep standing, while working up hand over hand the righting line. One could envision a monkey (or two) on meth having the agility required. All we need is a volunteer..... Don
Sheila	posted 06-12-2006 09:50 PM ET (US) Here are the directions from the USCG Boat Crew Seamanship Manual, COMDINST M16114.5 B Righting a capsized power boat Any attempt you make to right a capsized vessel must be carefully thought through before beginning. You must make absolutely certain that all crew members from the distressed vessel are accounted for before beginning any procedure to right the vessel. Survivors may be trapped inside the overturned hull. Approach a disabled craft cautiously, watching for debris that may damage your boat or foul its propellers. Righting boats by parbuckling (most common method) Approach the capsized boat cautiously. Keep clear of all lines and debris in the water. Account for all personnel from the capsized craft. Recover all personnel from the water and provide them with PFDs. Select a crew member to enter the water to prepare the boat for righting. Direct a crew member to secure your towing bridle or mooring lines to the nearest gunwale of the capsized boat. Then a person in the water leads bridle lines or mooring lines OVER the keel and down under the boat. Ensure that these lines are outboard of all handrails, lifelines, and stanchions. The run the bridle back to your tow line, or run the mooring lines to your boats rear quarter cleats. Recover the swimmer from the water. Pay out enough tow line to prevent the boat from hitting your stern during righting and towing, then secure the tow line. Gradually add power to your boat and increase speed. The boat should right itself. Bring the righted boat alongside your boat and dewater using the most appropriate method. Take in tow astern or alongside as sea state warrants.
Sheila	posted 06-12-2006 10:58 PM ET (US) It's important to note that TWO lines go to the distressed vessel, one forward and one aft. You basically want to drag the boat sideways through the water and let the resistance of the near gunwale cause it to flip back upright.
pglein	posted 06-13-2006 01:02 PM ET (US) I don't know why you guys keep saying it would be impossible to right a 13' Whaler. I'm telling you that I've done it (in deep water), and it wasn't even that hard. I can't speak for the larger, deeper V hulls, but the 13' is MUCH more stable when rightside up than upside down, making it pretty easy to right with a righting line. If you have any experience sailing in small boats, you know how to right a boat. Righting the Whaler was not much more difficult.
hardensheetmetal	posted 06-13-2006 03:38 PM ET (US) As Deepwater pointed out, we covered the pors and cons of righting a 13 in a nother thread a while back. Crabby- Your story is like dejavu to me, exactly as it happened to myself and a friend, except almost all of our stuff sayed up in the boat. As Pglein points out, it was much easier to right the boat than expected (it may have been do to an adrenalin rush,... knowing the CG would find and scold us, we developed super human strength and were able to flip the hull) Dan
hardensheetmetal	posted 06-14-2006 06:41 AM ET (US) That would be 'pros' and cons, and 'another'. My fingers type faster than my brain. Dan
HawaiinWaterman	posted 03-05-2009 01:40 AM ET (US) Missing Boater Strategy: You could easily right the Whaler or any boat up to 20 ft or above (A Un-Sinkable boat) simply by bailing the water from the overturned hull creating a larger air pocket. After you have adjusted the air pocket you would have to remove the canapee or glass top with a knife or screw driver to lighten the load. The boat with a largely bail air pocket using a bucket, cooler or tied clothing would provide for the overturned boat to raise nearly 2 feet in the water given that the entire hull is filled with air and bailed correctly. Then the boat must be correctly aligned to the swell direction with missing boaters tied off to the opposite side of the swell with ropes over the boat for leverage. This will allow the swell direction to push the boat towards the boaters for leverage as well. With the leverage of the ocean swell as well as the roping and a bailed hull full of air would allow for a correctly timed flip. The key is to have more then one boater probably at least two experience water men one at the hull and stern to flip the boat upright using the leverage of the sea and the placement of the ropes. As a larger swell approached the flipped boat u could rock the air filled hull in order to time it with the swell to push and pull the boat over just like canoe surfing using the force of a large swell "rogue Swell". I have accomplished this feat in San Diego while surfing "Dolphin Tanks" off of the Pt. Loma cliffs near dark in very sharky waters, the most important aspect is to have experience in the water; had the three of us not had this at "Mini Waimiae" nearly a mile a drift off San Diego harbor we would have never flipped the boat. Bailing was the key as well as our experience in rough seas, we were surfing waves in a boat that is considered unflippable both ways. I believe that the boat flipped in the gulf could have easily been righted by an experienced waterman by calming the large players and most importantly bailing the air pocket in the hull. The large men could have righted the boat easily, not to mention paid for the SOS Beacon for less then $1,000 USD. The whole story is sad and shows a overall lack of waterman skills... God bless their soles and families...