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Author Topic:   Mercaha 225-HP

dropanchor posted 11-28-2006 08:51 PM ET (US)
What are some of the attributes of a Mercury 225-HP four-stroke (the Yamaha-made engine often called the "Mercaha")? What are the drawbacks?
jimh posted 11-28-2006 09:52 PM ET (US)
Because this engine was made by Yamaha, I have always wondered if the typical Mercury dealership is really familiar with it and can provide proper support. On the other hand, if you took this engine to a Yamaha dealership, would they be able to support it?
Dick posted 11-28-2006 11:10 PM ET (US)
If the techs at your Merc dealership go to the yearly schools they will be trained on the engine. All parts are available through Mercury so if you have a good shop service shouldn't be a problem.
jimh posted 11-28-2006 11:14 PM ET (US)
It has been mentioned previously that the cowling on the Mercury 225-HP motor was made by Mercury, and that this cowling had improved sound insulation compared to the Yamaha cowling. The inference to be drawn was that the Mercury version of the motor was even quieter than the Yamaha version--itself acknowledged as a very quiet engine.
timing posted 11-29-2006 12:51 AM ET (US)
What I've read....
Very reliable and quite.
Heavier and more costly to maintain then a typical 225 HP 2 stroke. Have seen many posts saying it's not a high performance engine, with the actual HP <225.
That said, if a boat I was pursuing was powered by this engine, certainly wouldn't rule it out.
dropanchor posted 11-29-2006 07:13 AM ET (US)
Is anyone aware of any articles that have been published on the Mercaha 225HP? Or any head-to-head comparisons to other engine in its size (225HP)?
One of the major attributes of the Mercaha 225HP (and reason that I am considering it)when comparing to a Verado 225HP is that it is 66lbs lighter, which could make a significant difference if your BW was designed/manufactured for a lighter 2-stroke engine.
Peter posted 11-29-2006 08:24 AM ET (US)
This is really not a "Mercaha" in the true sense that the joint venture motors were. Rather, this is just a Yamaha F225 with a black paint job and a slightly different cowl. The performance of this motor will be identical to the performance of the Yamaha F225.
There has been a head-to-head comparison made between the Evinrude E-TEC 225 and the Yamaha F225 by Evinrude in its 2006 model year printed brochure as well as its first infomercial. The primary observation from that information is that the F225 is light on low end torque when compared to a 2-stroke 225.
Which Boston Whaler model would this or the Verado 225 go on?
handn posted 11-29-2006 08:40 AM ET (US)
I have two on my boat.
Except for the cowling, they are 100% Yamaha. The shift cables, binacle and dashboard gauges are made by Mercury.
Parts are available from either Yamaha or Mercury.
I am in Mexico so I have no experience with Mercury dealer service. My general purpose mechanic works on them quickly and easily with a service manual. I know because I watch his every move.
Other than a plugged fuel injector due to bad gas, I have had 0 trouble with them in 720 hours.
I know they cost less to run than my previous Optimax because they use no Optimax oil at 20 per gallon and no platnum spark plugs at 15 apiece. However, I am coming up on a majory service at 1000 hours which calls for a change in timing belt and timing chains and is likely to be expensive.
Fuel economy appears the same as the Optimax, power may be a fraction less but it is hard to tell because they are so smooth and quiet across the power band. They move my big, heavy Conquest adequately up to 32 knots.
fno posted 11-29-2006 08:49 AM ET (US)
So far I have yet to see anybody with any real world experience with that engine answer your questions.Since I have owned one for two years, I'll volunteer some thoughts. First of all, it is a heavy engine, so is the Verado. 66 lbs. diff between two 500+ engines will be negligable though. As far as service goes, my local BW dealer is a Mercury and a Yamaha dealer. In fact last month he was out of the $35 mercury oil filters, so he sold me the Yamaha filters for $25. Apparently black paint is more expensive that blue/grey. As far as performance is concerned, it is a strong motor for a 225. no four stroke will have the low end torque of a two stroke. some are better than others though and this motor is. Most four strokes are more sensitive to prop choice than a two stroke will be too. It is also quiet, more quiet than my previous 90 hp Merc four stroke both at idle and WOT. I have yet to have any problems with the motor so I can not comment on the service abilities at my local dealer. There was one recall on the throttle linkage that I had the fortune of finding out about from Yamaha and Mercury. The Yamamerc can not have Smartcraft instruments, the Verado can. The Verado also has DTS which can be a plus or minus depending on your personal philosophy regarding simplicity or technology pros and cons. I have dug into my motor a few times so far and it can be tedious as there is a lot of extra parts bolted to the power head. I would assume that the Verado would be just as daunting for the shadetree mechanic. One last thought, whichever motor you choose, get the factory manual. You may never use the powerhead rebuild chapter, but the routine maintenance instructions are well worth the $35-$50 for the manual. It will also make you smarter when it is time to discuss motor issue with your dealer.
dropanchor posted 11-29-2006 07:17 PM ET (US)
Thank you very much for your reply's, definitely some great points.

The boat is a '99 21 Outrage.
What type of guages are you currently using with your Mercaha 225? Mercury analog or digital? If you are using digital, do they provide information such as fuel GPH, Range, Hour Meter, etc.?
I am kind of at a crossroad...my original ideas was to repower with a Mercury 250 Pro XS to gain speed and have a 50MPH boat. Now I am considering a 4-Stroke because they are much more quiet.......and what would be better for resale down the road?
Any recommendations?
timing posted 11-30-2006 12:42 AM ET (US)
If influenced by both speed & quite….
Why even consider 225HP. I’ve seen the performance numbers for your rig at 46mph wot with a 200 optimax – very respectable. However, it wouldn’t surprise me if performance dropped off a bit with the 4S225 Yamaha.
Consider going for the max HP of 250 with a 4S Verado, Suzuki, Yamaha.
Bass & Walleye did a 250 HP shoot out recently. Overall 4S impression, Verado was tops, Suzuki a close second, then Yamaha. Search this site and THT for a complete write up. What I like about this shoot out is the different engines on the same hull & conditions. Another point of comparison - somewhere on this site or THT is a reference to documented engine performance output tables which lists actual HP. That’s where Yamaha 4S225’s output can be seen at <225HP. Based on write ups and users posts, appears any of these 4S engines would be a great choice. A consideration in decision would be availability and quality of rigging and service.
Based on owning the same model Whaler, I think the hefty 1999-2001 Outrage 21 can handle the greater weight of a 4S. Before making such an expensive repower investment, highly recommend contacting the BW factory and discuss engine weights you’re considering to get BW’s recommendations / comments.
In terms of resale, at minimum relativity in that a more expensive 4S repower now will fetch more money down the road, and perhaps a bit more attractive producing a quicker sale. The greatest resale pains are with the early years of direct injection engines with all the reported problems / failures. (Early Optimax, Fitch and big block Yamaha HPDIs). Even though some owners have experienced no issues with those vintage engines, they have a bad reputation and the price suffers significantly.
dropanchor posted 11-30-2006 07:30 AM ET (US)
Timing,
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, I will definitely check out the head-to-head performace data on all 4-Stroke engines, however, what site is "THT"? Maybe my coffee has not sunk in yet?
I did contact BW and a 25OHP 4-Stroke (or any 4-stroke for that matter) has not been tested on a 1999-2001 21 Outrage, thus no data available.
The current 2007 210 Ventura, which is the same hull as the 1999-2001 21 Outrage, has a maximum engine weight of 700lbs. A 225 Verado, which is the same weight as a 250 Verado (649lbs.), is an option for the Ventura. Using that logic, perhaps a Verado is an option for my 21? I guess best way to find out if the additional weight affects the CG of the boat is to have a 150-200lb. person sit on top of my 200 Opti (AT THE DOCK OF COARSE) and see how much the boat squats (will the scuppers be submerged?). I would hate to get into to game of putting ballest in the bow to offset the additional engine weight.
A 250HP Pro XS on the otherhand would be the best "fit" for the design of the boat, and it would be plug and play (Verado uses power steering, DTS, etc.) The downside, it is a loader engine.....and potentially less resaleability??
What is the TNT website?
dgoodhue posted 11-30-2006 07:57 AM ET (US)
My father has the 225 4S Yahama. He previously has a 175 carb 2 stroke Yamaha. To make a long story short the 175 has slightly better top end and had better all around performance. He always used the 175 with an aluminum prop and now he always uses a SS prop, he screw around with motor hight to optimize the 225. He 175 was as mounted by the dealer.
He now figures the 225 is on the optomistic side and the 175 was conservative and with the weight penatly of the 4S it is a slight advantage to 175. Before buying the 225 was going back and forth between the 200 4s and 225 4s, he figure the 200 would be the same as his 175 with the weight penatly. He is sure glad that he pick the 225, because he didn't want less performance.
Peter posted 11-30-2006 08:33 AM ET (US)
Just my observation, but I've seen a 2005 model year 210 Outrage with a 200 HP Verado on a mooring in a local harbor and judging by the way it reacts to small waves while on the mooring with no one in the boat, this 210 Outrage appears to be stern heavy as compared to other boats of similar size.
handn posted 11-30-2006 08:59 AM ET (US)
To answer a couple of questions by previous posts; gauges are analog by Mercury, no smart craft available. Shifting and throttle are by cable, no power steering or control by wire. However, traditional hydrolic pump auto pilots are readily fitted.
2004 was the last year Mercury marketed these engines. There may be a leftover around somewhere, otherwise Yamaha's are readily available.
These engine perform well with a 17p Revolution 4 prop by Mercury and you will like what this prop does for your real world boat performance. Because the engine is so quiet and the props bite so well shifting is loud.
When repowering an older boat, check weight, these engines are heavier than two strokes.
timing posted 11-30-2006 10:28 AM ET (US)
THT = http://www.thehulltruth.com/
And just to put another variable in the mix...
Based on your 4S questions, we've only discussed 4S.
But if weight becomes an issue, perhaps
an etec 250 at 524lbs?
Based on posts, appears the majority
of etec owners are very happy. Thought I would guess resale
wouldn't be as strong as the popular 4S.
I'll also mention but not recommend - Mercury has a next generation Optimax around the corner,
for which Mercury claims they're significantly quieter then the previous Optimax. Not sure what they've changed mechanically, but if significant I would stay away from first and second year builds.

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Author	Topic: Mercaha 225-HP
dropanchor	posted 11-28-2006 08:51 PM ET (US) What are some of the attributes of a Mercury 225-HP four-stroke (the Yamaha-made engine often called the "Mercaha")? What are the drawbacks?
jimh	posted 11-28-2006 09:52 PM ET (US) Because this engine was made by Yamaha, I have always wondered if the typical Mercury dealership is really familiar with it and can provide proper support. On the other hand, if you took this engine to a Yamaha dealership, would they be able to support it?
Dick	posted 11-28-2006 11:10 PM ET (US) If the techs at your Merc dealership go to the yearly schools they will be trained on the engine. All parts are available through Mercury so if you have a good shop service shouldn't be a problem.
jimh	posted 11-28-2006 11:14 PM ET (US) It has been mentioned previously that the cowling on the Mercury 225-HP motor was made by Mercury, and that this cowling had improved sound insulation compared to the Yamaha cowling. The inference to be drawn was that the Mercury version of the motor was even quieter than the Yamaha version--itself acknowledged as a very quiet engine.
timing	posted 11-29-2006 12:51 AM ET (US) What I've read.... Very reliable and quite. Heavier and more costly to maintain then a typical 225 HP 2 stroke. Have seen many posts saying it's not a high performance engine, with the actual HP <225. That said, if a boat I was pursuing was powered by this engine, certainly wouldn't rule it out.
dropanchor	posted 11-29-2006 07:13 AM ET (US) Is anyone aware of any articles that have been published on the Mercaha 225HP? Or any head-to-head comparisons to other engine in its size (225HP)? One of the major attributes of the Mercaha 225HP (and reason that I am considering it)when comparing to a Verado 225HP is that it is 66lbs lighter, which could make a significant difference if your BW was designed/manufactured for a lighter 2-stroke engine.
Peter	posted 11-29-2006 08:24 AM ET (US) This is really not a "Mercaha" in the true sense that the joint venture motors were. Rather, this is just a Yamaha F225 with a black paint job and a slightly different cowl. The performance of this motor will be identical to the performance of the Yamaha F225. There has been a head-to-head comparison made between the Evinrude E-TEC 225 and the Yamaha F225 by Evinrude in its 2006 model year printed brochure as well as its first infomercial. The primary observation from that information is that the F225 is light on low end torque when compared to a 2-stroke 225. Which Boston Whaler model would this or the Verado 225 go on?
handn	posted 11-29-2006 08:40 AM ET (US) I have two on my boat. Except for the cowling, they are 100% Yamaha. The shift cables, binacle and dashboard gauges are made by Mercury. Parts are available from either Yamaha or Mercury. I am in Mexico so I have no experience with Mercury dealer service. My general purpose mechanic works on them quickly and easily with a service manual. I know because I watch his every move. Other than a plugged fuel injector due to bad gas, I have had 0 trouble with them in 720 hours. I know they cost less to run than my previous Optimax because they use no Optimax oil at 20 per gallon and no platnum spark plugs at 15 apiece. However, I am coming up on a majory service at 1000 hours which calls for a change in timing belt and timing chains and is likely to be expensive. Fuel economy appears the same as the Optimax, power may be a fraction less but it is hard to tell because they are so smooth and quiet across the power band. They move my big, heavy Conquest adequately up to 32 knots.
fno	posted 11-29-2006 08:49 AM ET (US) So far I have yet to see anybody with any real world experience with that engine answer your questions.Since I have owned one for two years, I'll volunteer some thoughts. First of all, it is a heavy engine, so is the Verado. 66 lbs. diff between two 500+ engines will be negligable though. As far as service goes, my local BW dealer is a Mercury and a Yamaha dealer. In fact last month he was out of the $35 mercury oil filters, so he sold me the Yamaha filters for $25. Apparently black paint is more expensive that blue/grey. As far as performance is concerned, it is a strong motor for a 225. no four stroke will have the low end torque of a two stroke. some are better than others though and this motor is. Most four strokes are more sensitive to prop choice than a two stroke will be too. It is also quiet, more quiet than my previous 90 hp Merc four stroke both at idle and WOT. I have yet to have any problems with the motor so I can not comment on the service abilities at my local dealer. There was one recall on the throttle linkage that I had the fortune of finding out about from Yamaha and Mercury. The Yamamerc can not have Smartcraft instruments, the Verado can. The Verado also has DTS which can be a plus or minus depending on your personal philosophy regarding simplicity or technology pros and cons. I have dug into my motor a few times so far and it can be tedious as there is a lot of extra parts bolted to the power head. I would assume that the Verado would be just as daunting for the shadetree mechanic. One last thought, whichever motor you choose, get the factory manual. You may never use the powerhead rebuild chapter, but the routine maintenance instructions are well worth the $35-$50 for the manual. It will also make you smarter when it is time to discuss motor issue with your dealer.
dropanchor	posted 11-29-2006 07:17 PM ET (US) Thank you very much for your reply's, definitely some great points. The boat is a '99 21 Outrage. What type of guages are you currently using with your Mercaha 225? Mercury analog or digital? If you are using digital, do they provide information such as fuel GPH, Range, Hour Meter, etc.? I am kind of at a crossroad...my original ideas was to repower with a Mercury 250 Pro XS to gain speed and have a 50MPH boat. Now I am considering a 4-Stroke because they are much more quiet.......and what would be better for resale down the road? Any recommendations?
timing	posted 11-30-2006 12:42 AM ET (US) If influenced by both speed & quite…. Why even consider 225HP. I’ve seen the performance numbers for your rig at 46mph wot with a 200 optimax – very respectable. However, it wouldn’t surprise me if performance dropped off a bit with the 4S225 Yamaha. Consider going for the max HP of 250 with a 4S Verado, Suzuki, Yamaha. Bass & Walleye did a 250 HP shoot out recently. Overall 4S impression, Verado was tops, Suzuki a close second, then Yamaha. Search this site and THT for a complete write up. What I like about this shoot out is the different engines on the same hull & conditions. Another point of comparison - somewhere on this site or THT is a reference to documented engine performance output tables which lists actual HP. That’s where Yamaha 4S225’s output can be seen at <225HP. Based on write ups and users posts, appears any of these 4S engines would be a great choice. A consideration in decision would be availability and quality of rigging and service. Based on owning the same model Whaler, I think the hefty 1999-2001 Outrage 21 can handle the greater weight of a 4S. Before making such an expensive repower investment, highly recommend contacting the BW factory and discuss engine weights you’re considering to get BW’s recommendations / comments. In terms of resale, at minimum relativity in that a more expensive 4S repower now will fetch more money down the road, and perhaps a bit more attractive producing a quicker sale. The greatest resale pains are with the early years of direct injection engines with all the reported problems / failures. (Early Optimax, Fitch and big block Yamaha HPDIs). Even though some owners have experienced no issues with those vintage engines, they have a bad reputation and the price suffers significantly.
dropanchor	posted 11-30-2006 07:30 AM ET (US) Timing, Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, I will definitely check out the head-to-head performace data on all 4-Stroke engines, however, what site is "THT"? Maybe my coffee has not sunk in yet? I did contact BW and a 25OHP 4-Stroke (or any 4-stroke for that matter) has not been tested on a 1999-2001 21 Outrage, thus no data available. The current 2007 210 Ventura, which is the same hull as the 1999-2001 21 Outrage, has a maximum engine weight of 700lbs. A 225 Verado, which is the same weight as a 250 Verado (649lbs.), is an option for the Ventura. Using that logic, perhaps a Verado is an option for my 21? I guess best way to find out if the additional weight affects the CG of the boat is to have a 150-200lb. person sit on top of my 200 Opti (AT THE DOCK OF COARSE) and see how much the boat squats (will the scuppers be submerged?). I would hate to get into to game of putting ballest in the bow to offset the additional engine weight. A 250HP Pro XS on the otherhand would be the best "fit" for the design of the boat, and it would be plug and play (Verado uses power steering, DTS, etc.) The downside, it is a loader engine.....and potentially less resaleability?? What is the TNT website?
dgoodhue	posted 11-30-2006 07:57 AM ET (US) My father has the 225 4S Yahama. He previously has a 175 carb 2 stroke Yamaha. To make a long story short the 175 has slightly better top end and had better all around performance. He always used the 175 with an aluminum prop and now he always uses a SS prop, he screw around with motor hight to optimize the 225. He 175 was as mounted by the dealer. He now figures the 225 is on the optomistic side and the 175 was conservative and with the weight penatly of the 4S it is a slight advantage to 175. Before buying the 225 was going back and forth between the 200 4s and 225 4s, he figure the 200 would be the same as his 175 with the weight penatly. He is sure glad that he pick the 225, because he didn't want less performance.
Peter	posted 11-30-2006 08:33 AM ET (US) Just my observation, but I've seen a 2005 model year 210 Outrage with a 200 HP Verado on a mooring in a local harbor and judging by the way it reacts to small waves while on the mooring with no one in the boat, this 210 Outrage appears to be stern heavy as compared to other boats of similar size.
handn	posted 11-30-2006 08:59 AM ET (US) To answer a couple of questions by previous posts; gauges are analog by Mercury, no smart craft available. Shifting and throttle are by cable, no power steering or control by wire. However, traditional hydrolic pump auto pilots are readily fitted. 2004 was the last year Mercury marketed these engines. There may be a leftover around somewhere, otherwise Yamaha's are readily available. These engine perform well with a 17p Revolution 4 prop by Mercury and you will like what this prop does for your real world boat performance. Because the engine is so quiet and the props bite so well shifting is loud. When repowering an older boat, check weight, these engines are heavier than two strokes.
timing	posted 11-30-2006 10:28 AM ET (US) THT = http://www.thehulltruth.com/ And just to put another variable in the mix... Based on your 4S questions, we've only discussed 4S. But if weight becomes an issue, perhaps an etec 250 at 524lbs? Based on posts, appears the majority of etec owners are very happy. Thought I would guess resale wouldn't be as strong as the popular 4S. I'll also mention but not recommend - Mercury has a next generation Optimax around the corner, for which Mercury claims they're significantly quieter then the previous Optimax. Not sure what they've changed mechanically, but if significant I would stay away from first and second year builds.