posted 03-26-2007 02:39 PM ET (US)        

Just thought I'd pass this along. I took my 1979 Montauk 17 out in [San Diego] harbor a few weeks ago. Got inspected at the docks by the [Coast Guard]. Hit me on my gas tank, 12 gallon under the leaning post seat. [The Coast Guard] said [the on-deck fuel tank of 12-gallon capacity] was illegal, due to the fact it cannot be removed to be filled. [The Coast Guard] said that in order for [the on-deck fuel tank of 12-gallon capacity] to be legal it had to have a fill reservoir over the side or over the transom of the boat so fuel fumes escape over and outside of the boat. [The Coast Guard] said that the tank I have in now while filling the fumes can and will travel across the deck into the bildge where they can cause an exploding accident. [The Coast Guard] said that I could go with two to three up to 7.5-gallon portable tanks, or reconfigure my current tank to have the fill points. [The Coast Guard] said Boston Whaler sells their boats with a portable tank and the owners usually convert it to the larger tank under the seat. [The Coast Guard] said that this ticket is like a window tinting ticket.

posted 03-26-2007 04:15 PM ET (US)            

Maybe it's the situation of the bilge being lower than the deck. Don't know. I was taken aback by it, also, but just smiled and remained polite.

posted 03-26-2007 08:52 PM ET (US)            

When I was a bit younger I always took the 12 Gallon Tanks out of the boat to refill, it wasn't easy but I did it by myself.....as I got a little older, I just filled tham while they were in the boat.....I also find it hard to believe the statement about fumes in the rigging tunnel, maybe if you over flowed the tank and actually flooded the tunnel.....otherwise I don't buy it.....

posted 03-26-2007 09:41 PM ET (US)            

(B) Safe electrical and fuel systems. The electrical system must be protected by fuses or manual reset circuit breakers. Switches and fuse panels must be protected from rain or water spray. Wiring must be in good condition, properly installed and with no exposed areas or deteriorated insulation. Batteries must be secured and terminals covered to prevent accidental arcing. If installed, self-circling or kill-switch mechanism must be in proper working order. All PWCs require an operating self-circling or kill-switch mechanism. Portable fuel tanks (normally seven-gallon capacity or less) must be constructed of non-breakable material and free of corrosion and leaks. All vents must be capable of being closed. The tank must be secured and have a vapor-tight, leak-proof cap. Each permanent fuel tank must be properly ventilated.

Here is a link to the official Vessel Examination list:
http://a1130808.uscgaux.info/equip.htm

The reason why many new boats come with only a portable 6 gallon tank is so the builder complies with these regs; when an owner subsequently installs a larger tank the burden passes to the operator.
If you are stopped in Florida with an above deck tank exceeding 7 gallons you WILL get at least a $150 fine. This is a Federal violation not State.
Among other regs, the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) that is pertinent is chapter (§) 183.550
if you look under definitions in the CFR subs, you will see that the official definition of a'portable' fuel tank is 7 gallons or less. If a tank is not portable, it must comply not only with the venting requirements mentioned but also the slosh tests and so forth as outlined in the CFR.

posted 03-26-2007 10:24 PM ET (US)            

vessel safety check. sign up for a VSC (vessel safety check) there are coast gaurd auxillary all thoughout San Diego. I just received mine and i asked if there was an issue with my 26 gallon tempo tank above deck and they said no. I would get some more information about the issue/fine that was handed to you. hope that helps

posted 03-26-2007 10:39 PM ET (US)            

Obviously, the regs are subject to interpretation by the boarding officer or USCG Aux examiner. If the BO is inexperienced, you might get the wrong interpretation. Two years ago, the USCG Aux member doing my Vessel Safety Check said that I wouldn't get my decal because my numbers were wrong! After passing the CME/VSC for 8 years, they're now wrong? She said that they the spacing was wrong between the state letters "AK" and the numbers, it was too wide, it should be the "width" of one letter between them. So I asked, "What if that letter was an "I" and did the "width" of one letter/number include the "spacing" between it and the next letter/number?" Obviously it was open to interpretation and since I'd been a CG boarding officer of many years I knew it. I got my decal.

So, if you got a fine, I'd appeal it to the district commander.

And finally, Newtauk1, please calm down.

posted 03-26-2007 10:56 PM ET (US)            

I would very much like to see where it says "seven gallons or less" constitutes a portable tank and that any on-deck tank with a capacity of more than seven gallons must not be rated as "portable."

posted 03-26-2007 11:06 PM ET (US)            

Above is a link to the regulations cited above as being applicable, but I don't see anything in section 183.550 that says anything about on-deck tanks, seven gallons, portable, etc. Also, these are manufacturer's requirements. Also, you need to look for a preceding statement of applicability, as often these regulations do NOT apply to outboard powered boats.

posted 03-27-2007 06:43 AM ET (US)            

§ 183.501 Applicability.

(a) This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical power, or propulsion.

(b) [Reserved]

[CGD 74–209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, as amended by CGD 81–092, 48 FR 55736, Dec. 15, 1983; USCG–1999–5832, 64 FR 34716, June 29, 1999]
--______________________________________________________

Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters
PART 183—BOATS AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT
Subpart K—Ventilation

§ 183.605 Definitions.
As used in this subpart:

“Fuel” means gasoline.

“Open to the atmosphere” means a compartment that has at least 15 square inches of open area directly exposed to the atmosphere for each cubic foot of net compartment volume.

posted 03-27-2007 08:12 AM ET (US)            

People routinely fill on-deck fuel tanks of seven gallons or less while they are in the boat. In that situation the fumes still are going to be an explosive threat. But I have never seen any regulation or enforcement which required that the on-deck fuel tank be removed from the boat for filling. If there are such regulations, may we please have a cite for them.

In most fuel docks, the height of the deck of the fuel dock is higher than the boat's cockpit, at least for a small boat like a Boston Whaler which has on-deck fuel tanks. So removing the fuel tank from the boat and placing it on the deck of the fuel dock would still leave the tank at a higher level than the boat's cockpit. If fumes are assumed to be heavier than air, then fumes from filling the gas tank on the fuel dock deck could still fall into the boat from the fuel dock deck. Simply moving the fuel tank out of the cockpit but to a higher location does not help with the problem of fumes.

posted 03-27-2007 11:25 AM ET (US)            

I am reading this at work, and don't have access to the citation #, but will get it tonight.

For the record, I was'nt issued a fine. More like a fixit ticket. No money involved. I have to correct the problems mentioned and report back for an inspection.

posted 03-27-2007 12:29 PM ET (US)         

If you get stopped in Fl. with an over 7 gallon portable tank you will get a $150 fine. From who? the USCG? I would think a federal agency would have the same laws in all states. From the Fl. Fish and Game? maybe. I will check this out.

posted 03-27-2007 12:32 PM ET (US)            

If you look at page 7 of "Boating Safety Circular 71" http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC71.pdf you will see that when a CME is conducted, any fuel tank larger than 7 gallons is treated as a permanent tank.

"According to CME requirements, there is no such thing as a portable fuel tank larger than 7 gallons. Therefore, any fuel tank larger than 7 gallons would have to meet all of the requirements for permanent tanks.

posted 03-27-2007 01:53 PM ET (US)            

:)

Interesting conversation, especially in that I don't have a sense of any consistency or clarafication regarding this yet.

posted 03-27-2007 02:13 PM ET (US)            

I have been told by South Carolina Department of Natural Resources (known as DNR to those who use acronyms) on occasion that I was required to have a fire extinguisher on board because the tank was not "portable." It has handles on it and I do not have the straps on it. I have politely argued with them and been let go without ever getting a citation.

posted 03-27-2007 03:30 PM ET (US)            

“Fuel” means gasoline.

FEDERAL LAW
183.605 - Definitions
As used in this subpart:

“Open to the atmosphere” means a compartment that has at least 15 square inches of open area directly exposed to the atmosphere for each cubic foot of net compartment volume.
A compartment is any space in a boat that has length, width and height. It may be completely enclosed, partially enclosed or have one of its surfaces completely open. An example would be a compartment under a bow deck or a motor well where there is not an enclosing bulkhead. A canvas cover is considered the same as an enclosing bulkhead when in place.
Open areas are openings that are not specified. Open areas may be at the bottom, side or top of a compartment as long as:
the open area equals 15 square inches for each cubic foot of net compartment volume (See Figure 2), and
the opening is directly exposed to the atmosphere.
NOTE:
A number of openings may be added together in order to obtain the required total.
Openings into an open cockpit are acceptable.
FIGURE 2 - Open Area
NET COMPARTMENT VOLUME
Net compartment volume is the result of subtracting the volume of installed items of equipment and accessories from the total compartment volume.
Examples of items that may be subtracted include:
Engines
Tanks: Fuel, Water, etc.
Auxiliary Generators
Batteries
Accessory equipment such as refrigeration machinery, pressure fresh water systems, etc.
For outboard boats -one portable 6 gallon fuel tank, provided there is a defined storage location; i.e. straps or perimeters.
Examples of items that are not subtracted include:
Stowed Fenders
Stowed Anchors and Line
Stowed Chairs
Picnic Coolers
Other items that may or may not be in a compartment at any given time.
To assist in determining the amount of cubic feet to subtract, refer to Table I for suggested volumes of engines and batteries, and to Figure 3 for a graph of tank capacity vs. tank volume, in cubic feet.
TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW
Is there a gasoline engine permanently installed in the compartment?
Does the gasoline engine have a cranking motor (starter)?
If you have answered NO to either of the above, see 182.620, Natural Ventilation.
If you have answered YES to both of the above, then you must answer YES to one of the following:
Is the compartment open to the atmosphere?
See 183.605 for requirement.
Is there an exhaust blower system?
See 183.610, (b) through (f), for requirements. Permanently installed with regard to an engine, means that it is securely fastened to the boat’s structure and the necessary wiring, piping and controls are connected and secured to the boat in accordance with Title 33 CFR Part 183, Subpart I, Electrical Systems, and Title 33 CFR Part 183, Subpart J Fuel Systems. The use of “permanently installed” is to highlight its difference from the use of “portable equipment”.

TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW
Is there a gasoline fueled engine permanently installed in the compartment?
If YES, then one of the following must be answered YES.
Is the compartment open to the atmosphere as defined under 183.605? or
Is there a natural ventilation system provided? See 183.630 for requirements

posted 03-27-2007 07:10 PM ET (US)            

Based on a interpretation of a unidentified member of the United States Coast Guard, all on-deck fuel tanks of more than seven gallons are now illegal, even though tanks like this have been sold for 50 years and continue to be sold.

posted 03-27-2007 10:47 PM ET (US)            

And the standard portable tank is 6 gallons. So the Aux is off base on this one.

Ignore it, go boating, and have fun.

posted 03-27-2007 10:59 PM ET (US)            

I see a problem with the display of your numbers. You want
to fix that because it gives a water cop a reason to get
interested in you.

And more importantly, there's a problem
with your visual distress signals (probably flares). You
REALLY want to fix that because A) it's truly safety-related,
and B) a real ticket if you get real boarding by the regular
USCG (no insult whatsoever intended to the USCGA).

If you had passed, they would have given a decal that is
reputed to reduce the probability of a regular USCG boarding
(makes sense, the CG isn't dumb, they want to find the boats
that aren't safe on the water).

There's an annotation about your tanks, which is likely
incorrect.

posted 03-27-2007 11:34 PM ET (US)            

No, you do not have to got back.

You may go back to the CG Aux unit (or another) and show them the corrections and get your VSC decal. Again the decal shows the active duty USCG that you are in compliance and they'd rather board a boat without a VSC decal than waste time with a boat that's good.

Chuck is correct, make sure your numbers and flares (VDS) are correct - if boarded by the CG, they could cost you money..

Incorrect numbers give the LE types an excuse to stop you, whether it's USCG, Harbor Patrols, whatever. Once they're aboard, they'll check things AGAIN. Fire extinguishers, VDS, registration, the whole thing.

CG boardings are fairly easy to pass as the regulations are readily avialable to the public. If you want to boat, you want to do it safely.

The CG Aux did it's job. They made you aware of some shortcomings. Yes, they likely gave you some bad info on the tanks, but the Aux tries very hard and works very hard. Wave in a friendly manner the next time you see them on patrol. They are all volunteers and each year they save many lives.

posted 03-28-2007 07:13 AM ET (US)            

If you are stopped in Florida with an above deck tank exceeding 7 gallons you WILL get at least a $150 fine. This is a Federal violation not State.

posted 03-28-2007 08:29 PM ET (US)            

Are they perfect? Nope. Years ago I inspected a CG boat with the red/green navigation lights reversed.

JimP

posted 03-29-2007 03:44 PM ET (US)            

I wonder if Whaler would get involved on our behalf and get the Coast Guard to issue some type of ruling exempting the montauk.

posted 03-29-2007 04:28 PM ET (US)            

This is the area the the CG inspector was talking about.
He also said during our conversation that if boarded by the harbour patrol, CG, or anyone else I'm missing that is authorized to inspect and issue citations that this may or may not be an issue.

posted 03-29-2007 06:48 PM ET (US)            

2--The bilge pump is sealed to keep water out, and that will
keep gas fumes out and spark in.

posted 03-30-2007 01:24 PM ET (US)            

There are many idiots out patroling the waters. A few years ago I had a similar experience but with fire extinguishers. From what I remember...if you have a 6gal tank or 4 of them) and they are not kept in a compartment(on deck only), you do NOT need a fire extinguisher onboard. If you have a Pate 27 or Tempo 12 then you NEED an extinguisher because the tank is considered permanent or semi perm. That however does NOT mean you need to vent it, it already has a vent cap or ??? from the factory. It does mean that you can probably not throw it overboard and hence need an extinguisher.

posted 03-30-2007 02:45 PM ET (US)            

I was boarded and inspected by the CG last June outside Dana Point Harbor. They went through everything and I mean everything. It took them 45 minutes to go through my 17. They got me on expired flares and my 360 degree light, which had burned a bulb and was only showing 180 degrees.

Did I mention they were thorough? They wrote me up for the flares and towed me to the dock because bad navigation lights require them to "terminate your voyage" and made it clear that if I'm cited again for faulty running lights it's an "arrestable offense".

They also told me I'm required to have a rag and a receptacle with which to collect environmentally hazardous materials should there be a spill. They let me off using my beach towel and an empty Gatorade bottle.

At no time did they mention anything about my permanantly affixed 23-gallon gas tank in front of the console.

Ultimately, I never paid a fine. I got nervous when I never heard from them, and called a couple of times. The officer I spoke to said they would get in touch with me when they wanted to talk to me. After a couple of lengthy discussions got the impression they were saying, in effect, "go away and be thankful you aren't writing us a big check, and don't even blink wrong in the future."

posted 03-30-2007 03:56 PM ET (US)         

That sounds typical of a government agency with way to much power, through Homeland Security. Years ago, they were the fisherman's friend, and would always help you out, even with a tow. Commercial fishermen loved them, because they felt the CG was watching over them. Back in the `60s I was stationed at a life boat station on Long Island, at Westhampton Beach, and a dragger called in that was out of gas, with his nets down. We brought him some gas, and the next day he stopped by the station with a load of fish for us. I also pulled duty on a light house on Long Island Sound before they were automated, and people would stop and take us water skiing. We were a friendly bunch back then. Now they treat the citizens like drug smugglers and terrorists.

posted 03-30-2007 05:03 PM ET (US)         

Rule# 12
FUEL SYSTEM: Tanks secure. Tanks over 7 gallons are considered permanent and must be grounded/vented. Hoses in good condition, no leaks.

This rule is very ambiguous in my estimation and has loopholes. It makes no mention of a fuel filler that is overboard or on a gunwale. It is very easy to secure your tank, (you would probably do that anyway), and a ground is a good idea, and not hard to vent overboard. You might not want to drill a hole in the side of a 13 foot Whaler to install a vent, but why not just run a piece of plastic hose or fuel hose from the vent, along the side attached to the controls or wiring harness and run it overboard at the stern with a vent stuck in the end of the hose. If you have no bilge, you shouldn`t have any problems, at least the way the rule is written.

The funny thing is when I take my race boat out for a run, I`m not in compliance with any rule. It`s not even registered. I haven't been stopped but I think I would just say I`m just out testing, and beg for mercy. LOL At the AOMCI meets no one bothers us, and I`ve seen some race boats with reg. numbers, but that's all. Would you carry an anchor and horn in a raceboat?

posted 03-30-2007 05:42 PM ET (US)            

The "citation" he received was from the USCG Auxilary. It was a voluntary inspection and carries no penalty. They do not write "regulations". They write guidelines which attempt to mimick the real USCG regulations, but clearly actually do not in some instances. The 12 gallon tanks are legal, but considered unsafe by the USCG Auxilary, who have no real authority to speak of. Which is good, since they are simply volunteers.

posted 03-31-2007 08:58 AM ET (US)            

Here is my plan...
Have my 6.6 gallon tanks in place for the USCGA inspection, get my sticker (it's the sticker we want to display to keep the Coasties away anyway, right?). Then I will put the 12 gallon tempos in place.

posted 03-31-2007 02:04 PM ET (US)            

-Seth

posted 04-16-2007 03:09 PM ET (US)            

Ok, I fell for the troll. If its a law. Its a stupid ass law. My tanks have been in my boat since 1979 and now some dumbass tells me they are dangerous. Guess I'll be payin' a ticket because I sure as heck ain't changin them out. They are perfectly legal up here in Tennessee.

posted 04-16-2007 07:18 PM ET (US)            

wow. Back to it. I think it is about the end of this griping tale. Hey though, at least I know what to do if I ever get "longboarder-ed" by the gas tank cops. The fellas will know I'm cool and the chicks will dig me deep.

F-Yeah!

posted 04-26-2007 05:30 PM ET (US)            

There are different sections on a VSC and several apply to gas tanks as described in this thread. The first is item 5:
(I'm quoting from the USCGAUX page that governs what is inspected as part of a VSC)

Item 5 - Fire Extinguishers:

Fire extinguishers are required if one of the following conditions exists: (1) Inboard engine(s); (2) Closed compartments that store portable fuel tanks; (3) Double bottom hulls not completely sealed or not completely filled with flotation materials (4) Closed living space (5) Closed stowage compartments that contain flammable materials or (6) Permanently installed fuel tanks NOTE: Fire extinguishers must be readily accessible and verified as serviceable.

The second is:

Item 15 - Overall Vessel condition:

As it applies to this Vessel. Including, but not limited to:

b. Safe Electrical and Fuel Systems:

. . . Fuel Systems - Portable fuel tanks (normally 7 gallon capacity or less) must be constructed of non-breakable material and free of corrosion and leaks. All vents must be capable of being closed. The tank must be secured and have a vapor-tight, leak-proof cap. Each permanent fuel tank must be properly ventilated.

There is no mention of filling the tanks off the boat, venting overboard etc.

"A Vessel Safety Check is a courtesy examination of your boat (Vessel) to verify the presence and condition of certain Safety Equipment required by State and the Federal regulations. The Vessel Examiner is a trained specialist and is a member of the United States Power Squadrons or the US Coast Guard Auxiliary. They will also make certain recommendations and discuss certain safety issues that will make you a safer boater.

This is not boarding or a law enforcement issue. No citations will be given as a result of this encounter. We will supply you with a copy of our evaluation so that you may follow some of the suggestions given. Vessels that pass will be able to display our distinctive VSC decal. This does not exempt you from law enforcement boarding, but you can be prepared to make this a positive encounter."

Your local law may vary.

posted 04-26-2007 05:34 PM ET (US)            

http://safetyseal.net/what_is_vsc.asp

That page also has links on how to sechedule a VSC

Obviously this represents the minimums but it is truly amazing how many folks (non-Whaler owners obviously) are not in compliance.

posted 04-26-2007 08:16 PM ET (US)            

What makes CONTINUOUSWAVE somewhat different than other discussion web sites whose topic is boating is our very strong preference for providing some sort of basis for information other than a "you just have to take my word for it" argument. The "you just have to take my word for it" argument is often given as the basis or foundation for advice and opinion given from many. But "trust me, you just have to take my word for it" seems like a rather weak basis for representing the laws of the United States.

It has been my experience that the laws of the United States are written down and published so that you can become aware of them. Access to these regulations is now more simple and transparent than ever, thanks to the publishing of all the laws on the public internet. Now all one has to do to find a law or to cite a law is to just locate it on the internet in a publication from the United States or from a reputable third party who has reproduced the laws of the United States.

I think the Coast Guard Auxiliary is a great organization, but I do not believe the process of lawmaking has been ceded to them by Congress or the Judiciary. Therefore, I do not find their internal guidelines for a vessel safety check to be federal regulation. So citing some website where the Coast Guard Auxiliary says such and such does not really comply with the criteria of citing the actual regulation.

Now it may very well be that "everbody knows" that a portable fuel tank is defined in federal regulations to be less than 7-gallons in capacity. But I still think it is worthwhile to locate the actual source of this in the federal law. Federal law usually is quite clear about things like this. For example, federal law says you need to show red and green navigation lights, and they even go so far as to define the precise chromaticity of the light which constitutes a red or green light. You can easily find this information (in the technical appendix to the navigation rules).

Proceeding on a similar basis, it seems entirely reasonable that if the federal government defines something as a "portable fuel tank" they probably give some specifications about it which include the capacity of such a tank, if they intended to include a capacity as part of the criteria. If you want to make a claim that the rules of the Coast Guard Auxiliary are binding on mariners, then you need to cite some federal law that grants that power. Usually such a citation will have to be somewhere else than in the rules of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, because as a general manner of how government works, most agencies cannot grant themselves police power; they have to get their power and authority from Congress or some other act or legislation.

It has recently been brought to my attention that some readers think that the propensity of CONTINUOUSWAVE to prefer citation of real federal laws in lieu of citations in the form of "trust me, you just have to take my word for it" constitutes "hair splitting." I disagree with that assessment.

As best I can tell, what is mean by "hair splitting" in these sorts of cases is that the people making the "trust me, you just have to take my word on this" argument are just upset that they have not been accorded sufficient recognition as experts or representatives of the federal government by other readers.

I am also similarly unimpressed with the "it's in there" argument. This argument is offered as a response when a citation is requested. Instead of citing the actual regulations, the "trust me, you just have to take my word for it" expert reverses the paradigm of the burden of proof. Instead of providing a citation, he offers the "it's in there" citation, that is, the regulation exists, it is buried somewhere in the federal regulations, and now the burden of locating it is suddenly shifted onto the person asking for the citation.

posted 04-26-2007 08:28 PM ET (US)            

Chapter 2 "Equipment For Your Boat"
Page 2-5 (second to last paragraph)
"Gasoline tanks with capacities less than seven gallons may be called "portable". Tanks greater than seven gallons may sometimes be called "portable", but the Coast Guard considers them to be permanent tanks and requires that they be permanently secured before a boat can be awarded its safty decal."

-The Messenger

posted 04-26-2007 08:57 PM ET (US)            

I did a little Googling and found this:

http://safetyseal.net/manuals/Vessel_Safety_Check_Manual_Errata.pdf

This document claims to be the Vessel Safety Check Manual Errata, Explanations and FAQ, fourth Edition, 18-August 2003. Complied by the Technical Division of the USCG Auxiliary Nation Vessel Examination Department.

It reads (on page 11 of the document) as follows (and I'm including the entire relevant section)

quote:

---

Page 27. The second bullet point defines a portable fuel tank as 7 gallons capacity or less. This definition is not in the federal regulations. The Auxiliary has considered 7 gallons as the "maximum" size tank that is "easily" portable. The reason, a gallon of gas weighs just over 6 pounds. A full 7 gallon tank will weight about 50 pounds, which is about the maximum that can conveniently be loaded aboard a boat, after filling on the dock.

If there is a fire on an open boat, with portable fuel tanks, the first thing that should go overboard is the fuel tank. This of course is if the boat can be saved, Again, the weight of the tank being thrown overboard should not weight over 50 pounds or the boat will be rolled and the passengers thrown int he water.

Larger fuel tanks, sold as portable, will usually be filled on board. This is dangerous because of sills, vapors and the difficulty to handle.

These are the reasons we should explain to the boater why we only accept 7 gallons as portable.

---

Two points:

This definition is not in the federal regulations.

There you have it.

If there is a fire on an open boat...first thing that should go overboard is the fuel tank. . Huh? Is that really the recommendation of the USCG Aux? Aside from the environmental regs, and the fact that fuel floats, I think in the event of a fire - I will not be lifting and jettisoning any gas tanks. Seal them up, yes. Hit the fire with an extinguisher, yes. Jump overboard myself, yes. But I'm not getting near a fuel tank in a fire.

So my conclusion is that the USCGA guideline is based on reasoning that seems to me to be somewhat flawed, or at least open to debate by reasonable boaters.

posted 04-26-2007 09:15 PM ET (US)            

And, AtoZ, I think we do have an answer - it is not in the federal regulations per the USCG Aux National Vessel Examination Department Technical Division as of August 2003.

They made it up, and they don't have to give my 12 gallon Mirax tank equipped Montauk their sticker. Which is fine, I would have put it in the trunk of my car along with my front license plate and my Washington State Carbon Monoxide warning sticker.

One more thing - for 13 years we had a Kuvasz, he weighed 95 pounds, and I would carry him down two flights of stairs after his bath the keep his wet paws off the carpets. Believe me when I tell you that he was way harder to handle than a fuel tank.

posted 04-26-2007 09:26 PM ET (US)            

I like the use of the word "normally". Pretty loose term there.
The one thing that does stand out at me is where they say "All vents must be capable of being closed."
I just purchased a low profile cap at Home Depot so that my tank will clear the low RPS. The cap only has one vent and is not capable of being closed. I'm seriously thinking of having my vessel inspected with the 6.6 gallon QuickSilver tanks in place and do the old switch-a-roo after the VSC sticker is applied.

-Seth

posted 04-26-2007 09:46 PM ET (US)            

I cannot locate such a regulation.

If you cannot provide a link to an actual regulation promulgated by the Congress of the United States of America, I would appreciate it if you would not cite to any entity that does not pass laws.

Does anyone know of such a regulation? If so, what is the cite?

posted 04-26-2007 10:37 PM ET (US)            

And this is another case where the VSC is tougher.

And for those who keep asking for a CFR cite: IT AIN'T THERE.
There's NOTHING in the CFR that I can find that applies to
fuel systems on outboard-powered boats, the whole section
on fuel systems specifically states that it is not applicable
to outboard powered boats. CFR Title 33 Part 183.501(a):

"This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines,
except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical
power, or propulsion."

posted 04-26-2007 10:47 PM ET (US)            

The main difference that I can determine is vented caps with guage (above deck) and electrical sending unit plug with removable vent plug (below deck). Hmmmm.

posted 04-26-2007 11:08 PM ET (US)            

quoting your post.....

"The whole section on fuel systems specifically states that it is not applicable to outboard powered boats. CFR Title 33 Part 183.501(a): This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical power, or propulsion."

I did not chase down your cited reference, but I will accept your word on it. This is positive. We are headed in the right direction.