posted 04-10-2007 12:36 PM ET (US)            

This is a common question here and at other sites across the Internet for all types of motors where powerhead platforms support multiple HP models.

To date, I've not heard of a successful conversion for an old technology motor, where there are no electronics controlling things, etc.

For the E-TEC - I don't even think that your dealer can accomplish this without a new EMM....and BRP won't sell you a replacement EMM without a serial number for your motor - meaning that they'll ship you an EMM for a 75 HP motor.

Hell - FORD motor company wouldn't even sell my mechanic a rear shock/strut for my 2002 Explorer without getting the VIN so they knew exactly what vehicle the part was being used for.

I wish you good luck in accomplishing this task, but think you're risking a lot and will spend a lot more than if you had just purchased a 90 HP motor in the first place.

Regards,

posted 04-10-2007 08:57 PM ET (US)            

In the case of an E-TEC motor you would need to be able to install the software code into the Engine Management Module (EMM) to tell the engine it was now a 90-HP instead of an 75-HP. This software is only available to authorized dealers. Therefore, in order to accomplish what you want, you will need an authorized dealer to participate.

I do not see any potential gain or profit for an authorized dealer to go around upgrading engines. I am certain that once the word got out that a dealer was doing this, the manufacturer would be very displeased. In the United States there are stiff penalties for doing this sort of thing due to the affect on the engine's exhaust emissions.

posted 04-11-2007 04:14 PM ET (US)            

It's common to get considerable gains in HP on computer controlled car/truck engines by changing the ECM, the intake and the exhaust.

I don't know why this won't work on outboards too.

But I don't know what I am talking about either.

posted 04-11-2007 06:17 PM ET (US)            

I have been told that on my 200 Ficht there is no difference between the 200 and 225 except the programming. No hard parts at all. I suspect the same on the E-TEC 90/75. It is much cheaper that way for the manufacturer, higher volumes/lower prices.

The place that told me that is DFI Technologies who repairs the EMMs. They also told me that they could but would not, by some contract are not allowed to do it.

As JimH said the injectors have coefficients that must be programmed in to th EMM. You could have your injectors rebuilt by them which at that time they would give you the coefficients to program in on replacement.

I have the software for Ficht and E-TEC. If I get time I could check whether it will spit out the coefficients for the injectors. If it does you would then only have to find a used 90 hp EMM and put those coefficients into it.

So that is my rambling thoughts on this.

Len

posted 04-11-2007 10:05 PM ET (US)            

And as someone else already pointed out, you are not going to gain much in speed anyhow.

posted 04-12-2007 07:16 AM ET (US)            

The controller in most automobile engines is self-programmable, that is, it modifies its own programming as it learns how the engine runs. In some devices the modified code is in volatile memory, and, if the battery is disconnected, the stored parameters are lost. If you disconnect the battery from a modern car engine, the programming returns to baseline. After you drive it a few hours, the controller re-learns new parameters for optimum engine performance. I have not heard of any outboards using this technique. I think the main reason is that most outboards are still running in a open-loop mode and do not have oxygen sensors in their exhaust to provide feedback on combustion gases.

If it were simple to decompile and reverse engineer the stored algorithm in an engine's controller, I think there is some economic incentive to do this. In the case of automobile engines, sold by the millions and with intense interest to improve performance for racing, this has been done. But until someone demonstrates this on an E-TEC, it clearly has not been done by anyone other than the factory or a dealer using the proprietary factory software.

posted 04-12-2007 02:33 PM ET (US)            

Thanks all for your info however on my boat a max. of 75HP is allowed (insurance) so that is why I did not buy a 90HP engine...but would gladly have the 90 HP power... and it is not to have the 2 miles of extra speed but to have some spare in emmergency situations...

PS/ I have a Audi wich was electronic tuned from 138 HP to 164 HP by changing the chip at AUDI dealer keeping the full Audi warranty on this uptuning... why can this not go by outboard engines???

Anyone know the adres/mail address from Bombardier???

posted 04-12-2007 02:59 PM ET (US)            

Here is the info of the main office:

Belgium-Netherlands-Luxemburg
Bombardier Recreational Products Europe N.V.
Sea-Doo Watercraft
Sea-Doo Sport Boats
Can-Am ATV
Johnson & Evinrude
Skaldenstraat, 125
B-9042 Oostakker, Belgium
Phone: +32.9.218.26.00
Fax: +32.9.218.26.69

I believe they are also the head office for Europe. You may want to ask someone there if it is possible. I personally doubt it.
I also have a chip set in my SUV bringing it from 143 to 168 PS but I still doubt if it's that straightforward for an E-TEC outboard.

Good luck,

Erik

posted 04-12-2007 10:11 PM ET (US)            

Re the E-TEC injectors and their coefficients: I think this is an interesting situation for modern manufacturing. I have not seen this explained anywhere, but I make the inference that the inclusion of three or four variable values iassociated with an individual E-TEC injector means that there is some variation among injectors. To me this indicates that the manufacturing process is not able to produce the E-TEC injector with absolute consistency from unit to unit. To compensate for production variation from injector to injector, I suspect that each individual injector must be tested. The performance is observed and recorded, producing the various coefficients that are unique to the injector.

When an individual injector is installed in an engine, its coefficients are entered into the code which will operate the injector. This process is not speculation on my part; this is a mandatory procedure when installing a replacement injector.

There are two possible ways to look at this situation. On one hand, you could say that Bombardier manufacturing is lacking--it cannot make the E-TEC injector very consistently. However, we really do not know the magnitude of the variation from injector to injector. It could very well be that the E-TEC injector is made with as much (or more) precision as any other injector in the world. The coefficients may simply be a new level of refinement which Bombardier has introduced in order to gain even greater precision and control. If that is the case, it is a very innovative solution to an overall manufacturing and assembly operation.

If we assume this more positive view of the E-TEC injector and its coefficients, then we see that Bombardier undertakes individual testing and calibration of each injector, and then provides compensation for the individual characteristics of each injector in the engine control system. The end result is likely to be more precise total control and a better engine product.

It would be very interesting to hear from some one who has more insight into the E-TEC injector and its calibration coefficients. Perhaps we could learn more about the manufacturing process and calibration, although, on second thought, these things might be considered trade secrets and not likely to be divulged.

I also think that Bombardier has made the first really modern electronically controlled engine by using field updates of the firmware in the engine as a means to make improvements in older engines. If sos's observation is correct, Mercury dealers apparently lack any ability to install field updates into the engine controllers of any Mercury engine. This is the exact opposite of the situation with Bombardier. As far as I can tell, all Bombardier dealers are expected to be able to install field updates into the firmware of the E-TEC engines they are servicing. Updates of the firmware are made on a regular basis in order to improve the product.

posted 04-13-2007 08:35 AM ET (US)            

Manufacturing of a device such as these elctro-mechanical injectors consists of: A nozzle with a toleranced orifice, a piston pump containing a piston with some sort of seal ring both having tolerance and a cylinder honed to a toleranced diameter. All this is electro-magnetically driven by a coil wound on very high speed equipment to a toleranced resistance with wire that was manufactured to some tolerance.

In order to negate all these tolerances there must be somewhere to plug in these offsets. If you want the out come to be a Evinrude instead of a Mercury.

Here we go.

Len

posted 04-13-2007 09:44 AM ET (US)            

Nothing new about injector variables. Injector matching and or adjustment have been done since I was a puppy in the stone age. I'm speaking of purely mechanical fuel injectors, mostly diesel but gasoline also on some Mercedes Benz engines.

Back in the day one method we used to attempt to optimize engine performance was to match injector performance to the degree possible. This was accomplished by mounting the injectors for an engine on a test stand and calibrating the injectors to operate as similarly as possible within the constraints of the existing technology of the day.

When it was necessary to change/replace injectors we would often find it necessary to test several more injectors than found in a set in order to get good matches or matching injector performance. The same methodology was used when installing injector tip sets.

All those tuning tricks we learned are undoubtedly obsolete today but we thought we were pretty hot stuff back then.

Butch

posted 04-13-2007 12:52 PM ET (US)            

And there you have it.

Merc field reps can update ECUs if needed. Dealer no.

And for information. The Merc ECU is the most powerfull ECU in the industry. The auto industry is just now starting to look at the ECU version that Merc used 5 years ago.

And it does have "learn while you run" processes.

posted 04-13-2007 01:59 PM ET (US)            

There has been discussion of this in the past re: the old 40 and 50hp Evinrudes (as well as many others), and in every instance, it turned out that there was more different than just the carburetors.

posted 04-13-2007 03:30 PM ET (US)            

There is no "free lunch" when it comes to engine power. You can tinker with the fuel/air mixture, but all it does is reshape the torque curve. Overall, the engine's performance does not really "improve". It simply changes. You can gain low end torque or high end power, but not both at the same time. There is no engine out there where WOT is not exactly that: Wide Open Throttle. When the throttle is wide open, and you have the correct amount of fuel being injected, that is the MOST power that the engine is capable of. You can't fight physics. An engine is a pump. The more air it pumps, the more power it produces. You can't make it capable of pumping more air through a few keystrokes.

The worst side effect of all, of course, is increased wear and tear on the engine. I ruined the engine in my Honda by messing around too much with the fuel map and timing. It turns out that the same conditions that gave it a more concentrated power band, also increased the stress on the rings and bearings (big surprise). After a year of abuse, it was blowing more smoke than a Cheech and Chong movie.

If your goal is to get more power out of your engine, I suggest making PHYSICAL modifications. Then, and only then, will there be any potential for overall gain through electronic modification.

posted 04-19-2007 04:04 PM ET (US)            

I think this same logic can be applied to outboard motors. Manufacturers are not putting the physical technology into engines to produce extra horsepower and then simply electronically disengaging it to sell it to a lower-end market. I know that sometimes it SEEMS like it might be cheaper for them to do it this way, but I have serious doubts.