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Author Topic:   Custom Mixed Desert Tan Bottom Paint

jeffs22outrage posted 05-07-2007 10:21 AM ET (US)
So over this past winter I have invested some time and money in to finding / or making a custom mixed ablative bottom paint that would match Whaler's desert tan hull coloring. Up until now all that has been available are the standard Pettit or Interlux Black, Navy, Red, White, Grey, and light blue. None of which looked good when painted on a whaler because #1 none matched the hull color and #2 when you bottom paint a whaler the paint line aesthetically disrupts the downward lines of the smirk. This has always driven me crazy with my hull being painted. Sure I could strip the paint off however, I be be keeping the boat in water for the season again. So, I figured if you could get a paint to match the hull color you would achieve the look of the classic non painted hull with all the long term in water benefits of a ablative copper based hull paint. I did a good bit of research and finally found a place that was willing to do it. I have supplied them with PMS Color samples and I should be getting the first gallon of paint this coming week.
So my question to you guys is "If" I could get a production run of this paint who would be interested?" I am sure I could at least meet if not beat by a bit West Marine's prices for an Interux Micron CSC or a like Pettit Paint if I could get a large batch order.
Let me know your interest and I will post images as I get the paint and finish my hull.
Dan posted 05-08-2007 09:15 AM ET (US)
Very cool idea!
Chesapeake posted 05-09-2007 12:51 PM ET (US)
Jeff: I think that is a phenomenal idea. If it is true, I just wasted a couple of grand having my hull bottom soda blasted and re-gelcoated because I wanted to get rid of black bottom paint.
I'd be shocked if you did not have a large contingent interested, especially if it had the characteristics of Micron CSC (rather than a cheaper ablative alternative).
My two cents.
contender posted 05-09-2007 03:56 PM ET (US)
I was just looking for the same, I'm currently taking my boat apart to redue the entire whaler. I would go for some Desert Tan. PS. Jeff were are you located. Thanks
jeffs22outrage posted 05-09-2007 05:38 PM ET (US)
I am in the Detroit area so I will have to check on shipping regs. I got a call from the Manufacture this afternoon and the first test gallon is done. He stated it is very close but a little darker than the Paint Chip I gave him. I hope to get it by Friday Morning however, come friday I will be out of town till next week. I will post images as soon as I can.
David Ratusnik posted 05-09-2007 06:08 PM ET (US)
Jeff- Maybe I'm nuts. But, I think the bottom of boats
painted with your brew are going to be stained ugly. Sticks
and other junk won't adhere but the color might look like
h e ll. You might be on to something but I'd like to
see a before and after on your Whaler. If it looks great
I might just go over my black bottom paint. .02 David
Binkie posted 05-10-2007 01:23 PM ET (US)
jeff
Why not use Interlux Paints Trilux 33--YBA068-white bottom paint, and tint it yourself using universal colors from Home Depot. Probably a little brown and ochre tint would do it, or look for a similar color in their color charts for off whites, to Desert tan, and ask the paint guy what the tint colors are. You`ll probably have to use more color, as bottom paint is very dense. You might not make a perfect match, but I bet You can get it close. Just go slow add a little bit of color at a time. Bottom paint changes color after sitting in the water anyway. Just my .02.
andygere posted 05-10-2007 02:57 PM ET (US)
I like the idea, but I've put black bottom paint on my Outrage because I find it to be the most resistant to waterline staining. That said the nice thing about the black ablative paint is that with a bit of brushing a fresh layer of paint is exposed, and some of the color comes back. My experience with blue bottom paint is not as good, with some rather permanent color change over time. It will be neat to see how the desert tan brew looks, and how it holds up. Sadly, my boat just came from the yard with a fresh coat of black CSC, so it will be about 3 years before I really need a full bottom job again.
The other problem is that where I live, if you are not buying the paint from the yard that applies it or hauls/stands your boat, there's typically a $100 per gallon upcharge for using your own. The yard prices for paint are at or above West's outrageous price, so it's clearly an important profit center for them.
jeffs22outrage posted 05-10-2007 03:08 PM ET (US)
David,
You never know till you try. I have not seen anyone take up the initiative to date so I took it upon myself to find something that I wanted and currently does not exist. I am more than happy to try in on my boat and if there are others who want to test it in other environments I would be more than happy to work with them on prices. My brew is not something that I am creating in my garage, in fact I am not creating anything myself. I just sourced an existing manufacture to create a custom color outside what they currently produce for MYSELF out of my own pocket. I thought I would ask if there are others who would be interested so I could get back to the manufacture for his material ordering.

Rich,
I barely trust Home Depot and the toolboxes running the counter at my local Home Depot to do paint for my house let alone for the bottom of my boat. And adding a little color bit by bit does not help for repeatability. Also HD's tints are for Oil, Poly, and Latex bases. I would not want to test who they effect copperbased paints.
The place that is making the paint is a local Detroit Business that has been making there own copper based bottom paint from scratch for over Fifty years and suppling it to local boat yards.
In the end I am doing it for myself. If there are others who great! The way I am looking at it is I would rather have a dirty Tan bottom than a dirty Blue or Black bottom.
Binkie posted 05-10-2007 04:16 PM ET (US)
Home Depots computer that matches colors is flawless. The operator only has to push a button, and no knowledge of any sort is needed. When I was in remodeling, and had to match the color of the house to patch in the remodeling job, I used to bring in a small piece of stucco that we knocked off the house, and they could match it exactly, good enough that you could go around the house and touch up and it disappeared when dried. I`m not aware that there are any other tinting agents other than Universal colors. I have a tube, and it doesn`t say its good for lacquers, though. I`m not up on modern anti-fouling paints, but I thought they were oil based. I don`t think they contain copper anymore.
Rich
Riptide23WA posted 05-10-2007 04:23 PM ET (US)
My buddy painted the bottom of his little Edgewater with white bottom paint. I don't know which brand. Looked great after application. But, as the summer wore on, the paint started looking pretty dingy, as one would expect.
No matter what the color, you're gonna get scum and growth on it, and a lighter color only accentuates that. But I say go for it anyway. You never know until you try. Actually, the light colored paint probably favors the guy who mostly trailers his boat, and kepps it in the water for a weekend or so. In that case, the paint will still look good, and can be cleaned after you yank it out of the water.
Pat
David Ratusnik posted 05-10-2007 06:40 PM ET (US)
Jeff- I'm just giving you my opinion since I live in
environs with vast numbers of boats bottom painted. During
the summer months I see boats without bottom paint left
in the water 2 weeks pick up junk let alone stain. Occasionally an oil barge leaks leaving some ugly on a
pristine white recreational boat bottom. Tanic acid is
a b***tch getting off a non bottom painted boat or for that
matter one with light colored bottom paint. Black or dark
colored bottom paint serves a purpose- it hides ugly while
retarding the growth of junk. I don't view bottom paint as
bad- I keep mine looking good although the Whaler is lift
kept.
Again, once you've painted yours with the Desert Tan take
some pictures. A before and after for X # of months would
be of some value to many of us.
Thanks for your initiative. David
John W posted 05-10-2007 09:24 PM ET (US)
Jeff,
I think the staining may be a problem, but not any more so than boats with white bottom paint. But I would strongly suggest using Petit VIVID bottom paint for this project. The new VIVID paint holds its color better than any other bottom paint, and Petit advertises that it can be easily custom color matched. It comes in white, which you could then have tinted. It is an ablative type paint but it doesn't rub off all over everything it touches like Micron CSC does.
I used the black VIVID on my boat last year & have been extremely pleased...it stays black, and doesn't fade. (I need to adjust my waterline in these pic's, it sits a bit lower since I repowered with the 4 stroke):
http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/JohnPW/repower/
John

jeffs22outrage posted 05-22-2007 09:38 PM ET (US)
Just finished the first coat. I will take more in the morning after the second coat. I am very happy with how it turned out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4373.jpg?t=1179884137
Plotman posted 05-22-2007 09:55 PM ET (US)
Are you going to post a picture after it is painted?

Nice job on the color match!
jeffs22outrage posted 05-23-2007 12:27 PM ET (US)
Thanks David....I was going to head the direction of the shark white like your old 22 if I could not get the tan produced. Here is the finished product after 2 coats. This project has been a pain but I am glad I did it. I thought there would only be an 1/8" of paint (20+ years)on the bottom....I was wrong. Some areas had as much as 1/4"+ of paint built up. I started stripping with peel-away stripper and that got a good amount of the light blue interlux paint off. Then I used a heavy duty scrapper to get a good amount of the rest of it. From there I used a dewalt orbital sander (40 then 80 grit) to remove the rest of the blue paint. I found that under all of the crap was a nice 2 part epoxy barrier coat that had turned dark blue from the light blue interlux however, with some sanding I found out the barrier coat was really white. Once I sanded it all down to the barrier coat (19+ hours of hell) I found a couple areas I sanded back down to gel coat to do a little glass repair. Two where the beginnings of blistering and Two areas that I got over zealous with the sander. Once finished with that I was able to tape off and start painting. I started stripping paint at 6:30AM last Tuesday and I finished painting 8:30AM today (Wednesday). I have been working non stop since I started to get this done.
Finished:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4378.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4379.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4380.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4381.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4382.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4383.jpg
This says it all...hope it effects the resale in the right direction:P
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ Beforeandafter.jpg
Here are all my photos of the process
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/
Tohsgib posted 05-23-2007 12:40 PM ET (US)
Great idea Jeff. I have thought about it for years but like others have said...how will it look in a month or so. I was going to match white bottom paint to almond appliance paint at local automotive paint store. If you ever need touchup, almond appliance paint is pretty much a dead ringer to desert tan. My problem is my 13 and 19 are not desert tan on the outside. Good thing is my 19 has never been painted but the 13 is(Dark navy). I usually paint all my bottoms black or dark navy because EVERYTHING else turns funky as it ages. Now my bud just did his SeaCraft last year or so with White Vivid and she still looks great but...it is mainly a trailer queen with the occassional weekend or week in the h2o.
What I think would cure the funky color change waterline problem(if any occurs) would be a nice dark colored bottom paint boot stripe. This would seperate the dfferent desert tan colors and keep you scumline looking good with the darker boot.
Plotman posted 05-23-2007 01:09 PM ET (US)
Awesome outcome!
While I agree that for a boat that lives in the water, especially in a warm climate, maybe a darker bottom paint makes more sense, for a boat that generally lives on a trailer, what you have done is the way to go.
There are still stains on the shower curtain where I would clean myself off after sanding that horrid blue stuff away. I wonder how many years I took off of my life with that project. Calling it hell sure is being nice.
I really wish I had done what you did and gotten the boat off the trailer before I started sanding. It might have helped.
The end result sure does make it worth it.
andygere posted 05-23-2007 04:00 PM ET (US)
Jeff,
The boat looks great, and I'm sure you will find that it was worth the effort. Once nice thing about ablative paints is that if they get stained on the waterline you can scrub it a bit to expose fresh paint. Even with my black bottom paint I find that the patina from the brass drain tubes makes a faint green line along the back half of the boat. Had I not just had a fresh black bottom job applied, I may well have given the desert tan a shot.
Tell us a bit more about the wooden frame that seems to be providing lateral stability in lieu of jack stands on the aft corners. How did it work out? Is it tied to the aft cleats through the hawsepipes?
David Ratusnik posted 05-24-2007 09:36 AM ET (US)
Sure looks like a fine job. I do alot of painting
on properties that I own, and by far, bottom paint is
the worst stuff ever. Good luck with it. David
Binkie posted 05-26-2007 08:36 PM ET (US)
Great looking job, What kind of coloring did they use to tint the paint?
Rich

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Author	Topic: Custom Mixed Desert Tan Bottom Paint
jeffs22outrage	posted 05-07-2007 10:21 AM ET (US) So over this past winter I have invested some time and money in to finding / or making a custom mixed ablative bottom paint that would match Whaler's desert tan hull coloring. Up until now all that has been available are the standard Pettit or Interlux Black, Navy, Red, White, Grey, and light blue. None of which looked good when painted on a whaler because #1 none matched the hull color and #2 when you bottom paint a whaler the paint line aesthetically disrupts the downward lines of the smirk. This has always driven me crazy with my hull being painted. Sure I could strip the paint off however, I be be keeping the boat in water for the season again. So, I figured if you could get a paint to match the hull color you would achieve the look of the classic non painted hull with all the long term in water benefits of a ablative copper based hull paint. I did a good bit of research and finally found a place that was willing to do it. I have supplied them with PMS Color samples and I should be getting the first gallon of paint this coming week. So my question to you guys is "If" I could get a production run of this paint who would be interested?" I am sure I could at least meet if not beat by a bit West Marine's prices for an Interux Micron CSC or a like Pettit Paint if I could get a large batch order. Let me know your interest and I will post images as I get the paint and finish my hull.
Dan	posted 05-08-2007 09:15 AM ET (US) Very cool idea!
Chesapeake	posted 05-09-2007 12:51 PM ET (US) Jeff: I think that is a phenomenal idea. If it is true, I just wasted a couple of grand having my hull bottom soda blasted and re-gelcoated because I wanted to get rid of black bottom paint. I'd be shocked if you did not have a large contingent interested, especially if it had the characteristics of Micron CSC (rather than a cheaper ablative alternative). My two cents.
contender	posted 05-09-2007 03:56 PM ET (US) I was just looking for the same, I'm currently taking my boat apart to redue the entire whaler. I would go for some Desert Tan. PS. Jeff were are you located. Thanks
jeffs22outrage	posted 05-09-2007 05:38 PM ET (US) I am in the Detroit area so I will have to check on shipping regs. I got a call from the Manufacture this afternoon and the first test gallon is done. He stated it is very close but a little darker than the Paint Chip I gave him. I hope to get it by Friday Morning however, come friday I will be out of town till next week. I will post images as soon as I can.
David Ratusnik	posted 05-09-2007 06:08 PM ET (US) Jeff- Maybe I'm nuts. But, I think the bottom of boats painted with your brew are going to be stained ugly. Sticks and other junk won't adhere but the color might look like h e ll. You might be on to something but I'd like to see a before and after on your Whaler. If it looks great I might just go over my black bottom paint. .02 David
Binkie	posted 05-10-2007 01:23 PM ET (US) jeff Why not use Interlux Paints Trilux 33--YBA068-white bottom paint, and tint it yourself using universal colors from Home Depot. Probably a little brown and ochre tint would do it, or look for a similar color in their color charts for off whites, to Desert tan, and ask the paint guy what the tint colors are. You`ll probably have to use more color, as bottom paint is very dense. You might not make a perfect match, but I bet You can get it close. Just go slow add a little bit of color at a time. Bottom paint changes color after sitting in the water anyway. Just my .02.
andygere	posted 05-10-2007 02:57 PM ET (US) I like the idea, but I've put black bottom paint on my Outrage because I find it to be the most resistant to waterline staining. That said the nice thing about the black ablative paint is that with a bit of brushing a fresh layer of paint is exposed, and some of the color comes back. My experience with blue bottom paint is not as good, with some rather permanent color change over time. It will be neat to see how the desert tan brew looks, and how it holds up. Sadly, my boat just came from the yard with a fresh coat of black CSC, so it will be about 3 years before I really need a full bottom job again. The other problem is that where I live, if you are not buying the paint from the yard that applies it or hauls/stands your boat, there's typically a $100 per gallon upcharge for using your own. The yard prices for paint are at or above West's outrageous price, so it's clearly an important profit center for them.
jeffs22outrage	posted 05-10-2007 03:08 PM ET (US) David, You never know till you try. I have not seen anyone take up the initiative to date so I took it upon myself to find something that I wanted and currently does not exist. I am more than happy to try in on my boat and if there are others who want to test it in other environments I would be more than happy to work with them on prices. My brew is not something that I am creating in my garage, in fact I am not creating anything myself. I just sourced an existing manufacture to create a custom color outside what they currently produce for MYSELF out of my own pocket. I thought I would ask if there are others who would be interested so I could get back to the manufacture for his material ordering. Rich, I barely trust Home Depot and the toolboxes running the counter at my local Home Depot to do paint for my house let alone for the bottom of my boat. And adding a little color bit by bit does not help for repeatability. Also HD's tints are for Oil, Poly, and Latex bases. I would not want to test who they effect copperbased paints. The place that is making the paint is a local Detroit Business that has been making there own copper based bottom paint from scratch for over Fifty years and suppling it to local boat yards. In the end I am doing it for myself. If there are others who great! The way I am looking at it is I would rather have a dirty Tan bottom than a dirty Blue or Black bottom.
Binkie	posted 05-10-2007 04:16 PM ET (US) Home Depots computer that matches colors is flawless. The operator only has to push a button, and no knowledge of any sort is needed. When I was in remodeling, and had to match the color of the house to patch in the remodeling job, I used to bring in a small piece of stucco that we knocked off the house, and they could match it exactly, good enough that you could go around the house and touch up and it disappeared when dried. I`m not aware that there are any other tinting agents other than Universal colors. I have a tube, and it doesn`t say its good for lacquers, though. I`m not up on modern anti-fouling paints, but I thought they were oil based. I don`t think they contain copper anymore. Rich
Riptide23WA	posted 05-10-2007 04:23 PM ET (US) My buddy painted the bottom of his little Edgewater with white bottom paint. I don't know which brand. Looked great after application. But, as the summer wore on, the paint started looking pretty dingy, as one would expect. No matter what the color, you're gonna get scum and growth on it, and a lighter color only accentuates that. But I say go for it anyway. You never know until you try. Actually, the light colored paint probably favors the guy who mostly trailers his boat, and kepps it in the water for a weekend or so. In that case, the paint will still look good, and can be cleaned after you yank it out of the water. Pat
David Ratusnik	posted 05-10-2007 06:40 PM ET (US) Jeff- I'm just giving you my opinion since I live in environs with vast numbers of boats bottom painted. During the summer months I see boats without bottom paint left in the water 2 weeks pick up junk let alone stain. Occasionally an oil barge leaks leaving some ugly on a pristine white recreational boat bottom. Tanic acid is a b***tch getting off a non bottom painted boat or for that matter one with light colored bottom paint. Black or dark colored bottom paint serves a purpose- it hides ugly while retarding the growth of junk. I don't view bottom paint as bad- I keep mine looking good although the Whaler is lift kept. Again, once you've painted yours with the Desert Tan take some pictures. A before and after for X # of months would be of some value to many of us. Thanks for your initiative. David
John W	posted 05-10-2007 09:24 PM ET (US) Jeff, I think the staining may be a problem, but not any more so than boats with white bottom paint. But I would strongly suggest using Petit VIVID bottom paint for this project. The new VIVID paint holds its color better than any other bottom paint, and Petit advertises that it can be easily custom color matched. It comes in white, which you could then have tinted. It is an ablative type paint but it doesn't rub off all over everything it touches like Micron CSC does. I used the black VIVID on my boat last year & have been extremely pleased...it stays black, and doesn't fade. (I need to adjust my waterline in these pic's, it sits a bit lower since I repowered with the 4 stroke): http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/JohnPW/repower/ John
jeffs22outrage	posted 05-22-2007 09:38 PM ET (US) Just finished the first coat. I will take more in the morning after the second coat. I am very happy with how it turned out. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4373.jpg?t=1179884137
Plotman	posted 05-22-2007 09:55 PM ET (US) Are you going to post a picture after it is painted? Nice job on the color match!
jeffs22outrage	posted 05-23-2007 12:27 PM ET (US) Thanks David....I was going to head the direction of the shark white like your old 22 if I could not get the tan produced. Here is the finished product after 2 coats. This project has been a pain but I am glad I did it. I thought there would only be an 1/8" of paint (20+ years)on the bottom....I was wrong. Some areas had as much as 1/4"+ of paint built up. I started stripping with peel-away stripper and that got a good amount of the light blue interlux paint off. Then I used a heavy duty scrapper to get a good amount of the rest of it. From there I used a dewalt orbital sander (40 then 80 grit) to remove the rest of the blue paint. I found that under all of the crap was a nice 2 part epoxy barrier coat that had turned dark blue from the light blue interlux however, with some sanding I found out the barrier coat was really white. Once I sanded it all down to the barrier coat (19+ hours of hell) I found a couple areas I sanded back down to gel coat to do a little glass repair. Two where the beginnings of blistering and Two areas that I got over zealous with the sander. Once finished with that I was able to tape off and start painting. I started stripping paint at 6:30AM last Tuesday and I finished painting 8:30AM today (Wednesday). I have been working non stop since I started to get this done. Finished: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4378.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4379.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4380.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4381.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4382.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ DSCN4383.jpg This says it all...hope it effects the resale in the right direction:P http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/ Beforeandafter.jpg Here are all my photos of the process http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Bottom%20Paint/
Tohsgib	posted 05-23-2007 12:40 PM ET (US) Great idea Jeff. I have thought about it for years but like others have said...how will it look in a month or so. I was going to match white bottom paint to almond appliance paint at local automotive paint store. If you ever need touchup, almond appliance paint is pretty much a dead ringer to desert tan. My problem is my 13 and 19 are not desert tan on the outside. Good thing is my 19 has never been painted but the 13 is(Dark navy). I usually paint all my bottoms black or dark navy because EVERYTHING else turns funky as it ages. Now my bud just did his SeaCraft last year or so with White Vivid and she still looks great but...it is mainly a trailer queen with the occassional weekend or week in the h2o. What I think would cure the funky color change waterline problem(if any occurs) would be a nice dark colored bottom paint boot stripe. This would seperate the dfferent desert tan colors and keep you scumline looking good with the darker boot.
Plotman	posted 05-23-2007 01:09 PM ET (US) Awesome outcome! While I agree that for a boat that lives in the water, especially in a warm climate, maybe a darker bottom paint makes more sense, for a boat that generally lives on a trailer, what you have done is the way to go. There are still stains on the shower curtain where I would clean myself off after sanding that horrid blue stuff away. I wonder how many years I took off of my life with that project. Calling it hell sure is being nice. I really wish I had done what you did and gotten the boat off the trailer before I started sanding. It might have helped. The end result sure does make it worth it.
andygere	posted 05-23-2007 04:00 PM ET (US) Jeff, The boat looks great, and I'm sure you will find that it was worth the effort. Once nice thing about ablative paints is that if they get stained on the waterline you can scrub it a bit to expose fresh paint. Even with my black bottom paint I find that the patina from the brass drain tubes makes a faint green line along the back half of the boat. Had I not just had a fresh black bottom job applied, I may well have given the desert tan a shot. Tell us a bit more about the wooden frame that seems to be providing lateral stability in lieu of jack stands on the aft corners. How did it work out? Is it tied to the aft cleats through the hawsepipes?
David Ratusnik	posted 05-24-2007 09:36 AM ET (US) Sure looks like a fine job. I do alot of painting on properties that I own, and by far, bottom paint is the worst stuff ever. Good luck with it. David
Binkie	posted 05-26-2007 08:36 PM ET (US) Great looking job, What kind of coloring did they use to tint the paint? Rich