|
|
| Author | Topic: Best motor position while trailering |
| sapple |
I am a novice and recent boat owner. I Just purchased a BW 130, new, about 5 weeks ago and am uncertain about the best way to have the outboard motor (Merc 40, 4-stroke) while trailering. The folks at the dealership said I should keep it up with the safety latch in place. Otherwise, if I keep it down, its low clearance might result in it striking the road (i.e. from a road bump or depression) or road debris. The motor owner's manual specifically says to not do that. It says if you want more clearance to use a special support. I have asked various sources about such a support and based on the reaction I have gotten, I get the impression not too many people use them or feel they are necessary. What is the real story ? |
| Ranjr13 |
Do a search on this web-site for this specific issue - it has been discussed at length. My strong recommendation for your specific application is using a transom saver support - available either on-line or at most large boat supply retailers. The problem with your latch is that the motor wants to bounce up and down while being trailered. Your latch cannot handle that force - plus it puts a tremendous amount of stress on the transom of the boat. Bob |
| Casco Bay Outrage |
Scott - Welcome to CW and to owning a whaler. There is a boat load (no pun intended) on this site. Plan to spend hours reading and enjoy. As to your question. This is one of the many topics that has a different answer depending on who you ask. The search feature (under new topic) here works great and can give you alot of insight. Here is a sample of one thread http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/002075.html Most agree that the bracket is for locking the motor in place while you work on it and it is not for trailering. As for motor supports, that is the dicey one. Some recommend them, some say they are not a good idea. My opinion (read a thread here on it) is to use a block of wood between the bracket and the engine. Again, welcome to the board! CBO |
| pglein |
It puts the same amount of stress on the transom regardless of whether the engine is up or down. In many cases, the weight is actually more evenly distributed when the engine is raised. It just SEEMS like more stress because the engine moves around more. The tilt lock, however, does experience a great amount of stress when trailering with the engine tilted. Look at it and judge for yourself if you think it is up to the task. Many engines have special tilt locks designed for trailering. I'm not familiar with your engine, but it would not surprise me if it does. For what it's worth, I always trailer with the engine up. Never had a problem. Never heard of anyone else having a problem. Never seen anyone have a problem. I have, however, drug the lower unit over a speed bump the ONE TIME I tried to trailer with the engine down, resulting in irreperable damage to my skeg and to the speed bump. |
| Sal DiMercurio |
I totally agree with the factory manual. When trialering in the up or tilt position, the torque is front to back, back to front, with "much more stress" on the transom, but when the engine is in the down or near down with support position, there is no back & forth torque, & not bending the hell out of the transom or locking lever. My engine weighs in at over 500 lbs, [ with kicker, it's 615 lbs,] & to tweek it back & forth from front to back with that kind of weight, your asking for trouble. The bottom of the transom should be sitting on the bunks of the trailer, thus supporting it [ transom ] from the bottom & absorbing the up down force from the engine. To counterdict the owners manual is not the brightest suggestion. Sal |
| Sal DiMercurio |
When the engine is moving around from front to back & up & down in the tilted up position, is when your getting the most torque. Grab ahold of an engine thats tilted & just move the lower unit up or down very slightly, you will see that there is a whole lot of torque going on, compared to moving an engine that in the down position & with a transom saver. Little to no movement at all. The tech that told you to transport your boat & engine while in the tilt position, dosen't know what the hell he's talking about, & should be held responsible for any & all transom damage caused by doing so. Sal |
| elaelap |
I think the consensus is that the best motor position when trailering is down, but for many of us, like you, the motor's skeg would be too close to the road. The safety latch or tilt lock is too weak to hold the motor up by itself without eventually being damaged, and it can't be good for the trim/tilt mechanism to bear the load, especially with the constant pumping motion the weight of the motor would put on it as the boat and trailer bounce down the highway, so many of us--including myself--use a 'transom saver' (an adjustable aluminum brace or strut which attaches to the aft crossmember of ones trailer at one end and which has a cleverly-designed rubber-padded lobster claw grip at the other which firmly grabs the motor's bottom unit near the intake ports--don't pay more than $30-50 for one of these; there are several different iterations of the basic design available). I'm able to leave my kicker down, however, because of my boat's deadrise aft, and so I only use the transom saver on the main motor. Welcome and enjoy your sweet new 130, sapple. We'd all enjoy a few tales about your adventures in your first Whaler. Tony |
| Tohsgib |
This really depends on if you have PTnT or manual...I assume PTnT. If so put it where the tilt kicks in, then bring it down a bump. This way you have both the trim ram(s) and the tilt ram holding the engine. If a PTnT setup can keep an engine lifted while running WOT, trust me it can handle being towed behind a car. If manual I would maybe get a transom saver. I think they are useless on Whalers with PTnT but with manual trim they work well if your trailer accomodates one. |
| elaelap |
An interesting concept, Nick, and one I've never seen discussed here before. Sure, when you come to think about it, with the motor trimmed out a ways, in effect that little trim ram is levering the entire weight of the boat itself up out of the water. Hmmmm...maybe your method IS the way to go, if the full trim range raises the skeg enough to prevent it from dragging over speed bumps or when going up steep ramps, driveways, etc. Thx old bud...maybe you can teach old dogs new tricks after all. Tony |
| JayR |
It's a wonder more manufacturers do not integrate a trailering bracket into the design of their tilt assembly as does Evinrude on the E-TEC. |
| Binkie |
I use a block of wood. A 2x2 x 12" long works well between the bracket and the midsection. Its held in by the downforce of the t-n-t. Motor is a DT 150 Zukee super six. It doesn`t kick the motor high enough to cause a lever action, but high enough for the skeg to clear anything. On my 13 footer motor is `58 Evinrude 35hp, no t-n-t of course, not sure yet, this weekend will be first long distance tow to Lakeland. There is quite a lot of clearance in the down position. Might try the wood and then tie the motor down, or leave it down. Rich |
| contender |
I'm confused with what some of you are stating that your engine has no trailer(towing) lock (except for binkie because the age of his engine) Both of my engines(1985 140 evinrude, 1990 250 yamaha) have trailer locks on the engines. Towing an engine in the down position sooner or later will result in a damaged lower unit due to hitting it on something, driving over a speed bump, hole in the road, something in the road, over a small sharp hill. I tilt my engines all the way up place/engauge the lock and lightely trim down the engine to rest on the lock. Towing an engine half way up places a shock, and stress on the trim cylinders, I have towed my boats (all of them) since day one with the engine up and have never had a problem with anything...good luck |
| elaelap |
I think that's one of the issues, contender. Some of us are convinced, rightly or wrongly, that the little tabs you're calling 'trailer locks' aren't really designed for or strong enough for trailering. That's why Rich (and many others) use a horizontal piece of wood as a support, others use a 'transom saver,' and Nick (and probably others I don't know about) uses his trim ram. Ya know...whatever works, sapple, just make sure the skeg of your motor is far enough off the roadway. Tony |
| Binkie |
contender I agree, and used to tow my twin inline six Mercs using the towing locks. Never had a problem. I assumed thats what they were there fore. I think the block of wood takes the strain off the trim cylinders, and maybe easier on the transom. Rich |
| dscew |
Squeezing a soft pine block with downward trim pressure makes the motor/transom combination one immovable unit. Seems like the least stress on the transom if nothing can move. |
| Hal Watkins |
This link/product was reommended to me by a BW employee. http://www.m-ywedge.com/ I use this with my 170 Monyauk, with a 90 mercury. I have towed it 1000+ miles this summer...no problems Hal of Waseca, MN |
| Chuck Tribolet |
Whereever the owners manual says. It varies from brand to brand.
|
| Hal Watkins |
My advice was from Chuck Bennett at BW...here was his comments: According to the Mercury Outboard Manual, they recommend using an engine support to protect the engine hydraulics while trailering. One simple support... Hal |
| Backlash |
sapple, I prefer a block of wood also. A 2 x 4 wasn't thick enough to provide the necessary angle for my motor and a 4 x 4 was too thick so I modified the 4 x 4. This is a 10" long pressure-treated 4 x 4 with holes drilled about ½" deep that line up with the lugs on the engine bracket and prevent the block from slipping out: Steve |
| contender |
I'm going to investigate this one and get back to everyone, Here is some logic: A piece of steel is strongest in compression, the locks are designed this way, The locks on both of my engines have tabs on both sides on the engine mount. The steel is about 1/8 inch thick and only 1 inch long. Both pieces of steel are inline with the support. If you ask any engineer I sure this amount of steel will support an easy 600 pounds of engine. Hal if Mercury states this in their manual that you have to purchase an after market devise to help the support/protect their engine, I would think they have a serious engine design flaw and it should be corrected...good luck |
| Sal DiMercurio |
If your ever behind a boat being towed on a trailer, & it is in the up tilted position, being held by the tilt tabs, you will see some unreal torque, & you will realize that is not the way to transport your rig Than when that boat stops, get out & just use 1 hand & bounce that engine by putting 1 hand on the skeg & start the engine bouncing like a teeter totter. Your going to get 3 - 5 inches of some serious up & down torque,moving from front to rear with just 1 hand doing the torquing Now drop the engine down to the point you can put a transom saver,or 2"x 2" redwood block between the leg & mounting bracket. Your skeg will be over 2'above the ground,which is more than enough to clear any obstical or bump on the road. Now try & even move the engine 1" in any direction, using both hands & your body weight, ....the engine wont move more than an inch & absolutly no torque. When the factory prints in the manual,to "NOT" do it, what makes you think your a better engineer than the people that designed & built these engines? You can actually snap or crack a weaker transom by just using your thumb & middle finger tweeking the skeg up & down while in the tilted up position. You can jump up & down on any part of that engine if it's in the position Rich & I & the factory says to use, & you wont hurt a thing. When your hauling an engine of todays standards, [ DFI & 4 strokes ] in anything over 150 to 350 [ 500 to 800 lbs ] there's only 1 single bolt holding that engine to the bracket,thats bolted to the boat. By making the center of gravity to high,by tilting the engine "UP",your going to break something, mark my words. The transom wont be twisting or torquing when it's in a semi down positioned compared to when it's in the tilted up position. Sal |
| sternorama |
I can vouch for the bumping (oscillation) that happens to some motors when they are "up" and the trailer is running down the road-I have seen this on the road on somebody else's rig. It really looked bad. Cyclic loading like that will cause problems. I can also say that different motors are different. In the case of my old 60hp Johnson (manual tilt) there is a much thicker bracket on one side that takes the load nicely. My small Johnson 15hp kicker is another story. It has weak thin supports that can not handle the job. I made a triangular piece of wood (about 1" each side, and 8 or so inches long and I filed it to fit and jam into the triangular space that forms between the motor, bracket, and supports. This has worked for me in this special application. On a previous boat we had a big Merc, and we rigged a support arm to the trailer for that motor. One thing that can contribute to this variety of situations is the length of the leg on a particular motor, as this influence on the location of the center of gravity. What would the community recommend for a 1985 150 Yammaha 2 stroke with power tilt on an Outrage 18? |
| gbcbu |
"My Wedge" Extremely easy to: install, uninstall and store. Not at all cumbersome like the long metal supports that attach to the trailer. Also very reasonable for under $30. |
| Tollyfamily |
I broke the entire mount on my 6 Yamaha kicker when towing in the up position, now I aleays put it doun and use the trim on the 90 to raise it about 1/3 of the way. Dan |
| contender |
Sal First of all you need to read what I have stated: Mercury has a problem with their engine design If you are required to purchase an after market item to help tow your boat? Second if you can snap your transom by moving your engine up and down its time to purchase a new boat, Third My engines do not move 3-5inches in any tilt or trim position, If your engine/boat does you have a problem. Fourth, How much stress in on the transom when the engine is under way, half speed, full speed? Maybe Mercury is design this way (to carry an extra 2x4 for support) but I can not believe this. I do know if you transport your engine in the tilt position with out the trailer tab being use it will cause damage to the trim/tilt cylinder rams. Fifth I stated I would investigate and get back to everyone but I guess you can not wait. I have a Evinrude dealer/owner that is my neighbor and a Yamaha dealer down the street I will get back to you. Until then you can do what suits you and I will do what suits me...Ps and Sal I know you are going to let us know when you have to see a dealer about a lower unit repair from hitting something in the road right. |
| Vek |
90+ miles each summer since 2002 on a horrible gravel road, plus the additional 500 road miles round trip, and the "flimsy" trailering flip-down support on our 2001 175 Ficht seems to be doing the job. There is not sufficient clearance to trailer with the leg down, period. For little outboards that do not have hydraulic tilt with some sort of transport lever, go ahead and tilt it down, or if you need to tilt it up, whittle a piece of wood to jam in the pivot area, taking care not to crush anything flimsy. You will have to use your judgment here. For bigger outboards with hydraulic tilt and a trailering latch, use it. My big problem with the "transom saver" is that if there is any flex in your trailer (don't think that there isn't), the saver may reef as hard on your leg as the motor's weight. |
| lurkynot |
This is how I trailer my 135 Optimax. I made sure the block was of sufficient dimensions to allow clearance of the skeg in the worst case - such as an abrubt approach angle at a driveway. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/lurkynot/motor%20block/DSCF0132.jpg |
| Nauti Tauk |
Sapple, I trailer our 170 back and forth to Georgia from Fla. 4 times a year (3000 miles minimum) plus normal trips to and from the ramp. I purchased the "My-Wedge" and have been totally satisfied with it. It keeps the engine in the postion most folks on here are reccomending,1/3 to 1/2 way down or so, and is super simple to use. It's made of rubber so if there is any movement at all it's cushioned. I drilled a hole in mine and secured a length of small stuff to it and tied it to the engine so when not in use it simply stays in the splash well. The small line keeps it from getting "lost" so it's always close at hand. Hope this helps and welcome to the world of Whalering! |
| Newtauk1 |
www.m-ywedge.com |
| Jkcam |
Let's see; 1. What is on the engine from the factory is NOT a engine up lock for TOWING. It is only for stationary use. 2. I own $20K (or $3K) worth of engines but I will use a $.05 piece of scrap wood to protect them. Maybe not your best move. 3. The solution is readily available and road tested on one of the worst tralering highways in the U.S. I-95 in South Carolina. www.my-wedge.com It is one of the best boating accessories out there. |
| contender |
Jkcam, What kind of engines do you have? Not trying to be smart but why would you want to lock the engine in the up position for? |
| Sal DiMercurio |
Some people think the locking tab is for trailering, when it's really there to hold your engine up while mooring it on the water, so it dosen't get electrolosis or grass or barnacals. If anyone thinks their engine dosen't tetter totter, & torque like crazy while in the up position, while being towed, they haven't looked at it while underway. Sure, on a super smooth [ if there are any ] road, it wont move, but hit a bump or drive on a Calif hiway & I'll give to 20.1 odds that your going to break that tab. There's no chance of my lower unit hitting anything, as I tilt it up high enough, [ about 1 ft out ] before putting a 2 x 2 in between the engine & the bracket. Sal |
| lurkynot |
I agree with Sal. As seen in the photo provided in my earlier post the angle is reduced and thus so is the dynamic (up/down) forces that come into play while trailering. That fancy wedge may reduce the downward forces a bit more than the piece of wood, however I do not think they would measurable and worth it. For peace of mind if you feel the added expense of the fancy wedge is better that works as well. I will go out on a limb and say that fancy wedge will not counter any more upward forces then the scrap piece of 2x4 shown in the picture. The main idea is to reduce the angle of the engine in relation to the transom while underway to reduce the dynamic forces due to trailering. |
| AEJIII |
I use a block of wood for my 225 merc on a conquest. Everybody seems to forget how strong the transom of a whaler is. Thats why we all have whalers. When replacing the trim and tilt on my merc i found out that it is almost completely balanced when in the full up postion. i have used the tilt bracket and then trimmed down tight as others have said. 300 mile later it is still tight. I usually use the block of wood for longer trips. Again the key is to trim it down tight= no movement. Consensus, don't let your motor hit the ground. If u like the aftermarket products fine , but the block of wood works as well |
| Sal DiMercurio |
If the engine were perfectly balanced, while tilted all the way in the up position, you would be able to hold the lower unit in one hand to balance it, as you let the tilt down, & you would still be holding the lower unit in the same place......wanna bet you can't even come close to keeping the leg from coming down? Perfectly balanced,....I think not. Being perfectly balanced while your not moving, doesn't mean it's going to stay balanced, while bouncing over potholes, humps, & bumps, especially on a single axel trailer. When the weight is positioned up & down, it's far more stable than horizontal. Just try & move a 200 hp engine in any direction, while it's in the semi down position [ with transom saver or 2 x 2 block ], it aint gonna move even 1/4" ,.....now tilt it all the way up, into the full tilt position,& I bet you $500 that engine will move a minimum of 3" in the teeter totter type of movement. Again, when the factory manual says don't do something, ....doing it isn't exactly the smartest move on any ones part. Sal |
| pglein |
Sal, I know damn well that my engine teters back and forth on the tilt-lock when trailering. Does it make me nervous? Sure. But it's done it fine for literally thousands of miles of high-speed freeway driving, as well as a fair amount of time on some pretty serious Pacific Northwest logging roads. I'd love to trailer with the engine down, but I simply can't. A block of wood is likely to damage the engine bracket, so that's out. A wedge would be nice, but I'll take my chances with the flimsty (but so far very reliable)tilt-lock. But most power tilt engines these days DO have very sturdy tilt locks that ARE designed for trailering. My friend's Johnson 70 has a very sturdy, double sided tilt lock that actually has "engage when trailering" cast right into it. Are you going to tell me that it wasn't designed for use when trailering? |
| lurkynot |
Right on Sal. My power trim/tilt went out this spring on the Detroit walleye fishing. The trim motor quit working in the running position to low to trailer. I could not even pull the boat up the ramp it was sitting on the concrete. Would not want to try lift that tail end of the motor again. It took all the might I could muster after opening the relief valve. Barely got it high enough to put the block in. NOWHERE near balanced. |
| Sal DiMercurio |
PG, the smaller engines such as the omc 70s [ and smaller ] do very well with the trailering brace built right in on them. When I trailer my 15 sport with 70 hp Johnson, here where I live, just down to the marina, [ about 4 miles ] I tilt it up & use both of the tilting braces, but if I'm going to one of the lakes, like 150 miles away, I tilt it 3/4 down & use a 2x2" redwood about 12" long between the leg & bracket. The engine I'm refering to that need to be in the semi down position are the bigger engines. I'm talking about "V"4 & "V"6 engines that weigh over 350 lbs. I believe that 70 omc is 288 lbs soaking wet. Trailering my 510 lb 200 hp engine in the up position would be just plain nuts. From the info I have, these new 300 - 350 hp engines weigh in near 800 lbs. I doubt they will be trailered in the up postion. I haven't read the manual on them, but would most certainly go by what they say to do. Sal |
| AEJIII |
Sal I would love to take your bet! Seeing as i have actually lifted the motor up from the very heavy vertical postion to the nearly balanced horizontal postiton as opposes to to guessing about it. I can easily hold it horizontally with one hand. But I also realize that there are many variables involved such as shaft length, engine block weight, geometry of the fulcrum, etc. I am speaking of my 1998 225 merc/ 25" shaft/ stainless vengeance prop. The best way to tell would be to open the relief valve and try your particular set up and i agree that the down postion is more stable, but trimmed down tight on a block in the up postion doesn't produce any visible "teeter-totter" effect because there is no play on my rig anyway. Yes i have followed it when a friend was towing it. The key would be to have the motor tight against whatever support you are using. |
| minitauk85 |
I have heard of folks that use a piece of PVC pipe cut similarly to the wedge that Jerry (Nautitauk) mentions with good results. Easy and cheap! Not sure how this would do on a heavier motor.-k |
| BlueMax |
Too scared to post the question myself, too lazy to search for it and too confused to understand the MANY different OPINIONS on this site concerning this topic, I would like to say Thank You to all - the first post right to the last answer.... I too am a new BW owner (170 Montauk w/90hp 4-stroke Merc)and had the same concern after reading in the owner's manual that the tab is not for trailering, yet the dealer sends me on the road that way. I did not think anything terrible would happen for the distance, but I guess it is more a question of bounce than distance. I've gone back and forth to the dealer in Wrightsville Beach (NC) from Swansboro but was concerned about trailering the boat to Myrtle Beach or Charleston to play with friends and family (so Toms river NJ was out of question for me this year). My take was that I would have to use a transom bar of sorts to take the pressure off, but wasn't sure what to get/use. My buddy's suggestion of a block of wood seemed plausible yet ludicrous at the same time (i.e. why wouldn't Merc/BW give us something "cheap" to use if a block of wood was effective -Yet why should they when the BIG money is in the after-market maintenance). Seeing how "many" - Okay several posters - use a simple piece of wood or similar simple solution. I definitley appreciate the insight and experience on this site - taking each post with a grain of "IMHO" salt - no one size fits all solutions and great thought provoking "Yankee" ingenuity (no disrespect to fellow Southerners - we're all "Yanks" outside our borders - spoils of victory I guess. Ha!) My dealer had said (oh, boy, wrong way to start a sentence - famous first words of a stranded boater... :-)) That the engine would be fine for trailering up locally - but maybe not for longer distances (such as Charleston/Toms River). After seeing the ease of use of demo on the wedge site - that is the way to go for me. The PVC solution (of which I have plenty laying around) is probably "same principle/same result" but I will DEFINITELY go with the MY Wedge - for a proverbial "couple-a-bucks" I would feel much better (hence buying the Whaler on "Safety/Unsinkability/Undestructability" grounds - though much more than a "couple" of bucks over a Carolina Skiff). Very simple, very cheap and apperantly very effective. Thank You all again for your posts, whether based on factual experience or personal opinion - and great tip on the Wedge. That is the way I am going to go - Peace of mind of doing something simple that can save a ton of headache and money over the long run for me. |
| lurkynot |
I have more than 15000 miles on my trailer that carries my 18 Dauntless with a 135 Optimax. I only use the block of would in the link to the picture I provided in an earlier reply to this topic. Absolutley no problems with this setup. If it gives you peace of mind that is fine. I can assure anyone reading and wondering that this is a solution and that it works. Take a look at a Classic Outrage's transom. That would provide some peace of mind as to how much torque the transoms can take on these Whalers. I am sure the motors made at the time had similar setups and there were no need for blocks or wedges. |
| BlueMax |
Let's also not forget the "liability" factor - in other words, Merc might have thrown that disclaimer in the book knowing full well that the tab works fine for traieringfor the most part....but....just in case someone has a problem that they want fixed under warranty or leads to a lawsuit....hey "we told you so." No one's collecting if they go against mfg. recommendations and Merc isn't putting all that much financial faith in the durability of the tab they are using..... though you may never have a problem using it. But - Still - you could see me out there today with a couple of blocks of wood and a piece of PVC checking into the theories. :-) Better Safe than Sorry..... and that peace of mind thing. |
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.