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Author Topic:   Market values

NItroB posted 07-21-2008 11:15 AM ET (US)
I've searched the posts and haven't seen this topic discussed recently--Market Values.
I completely understand that if I am a current Whaler owner being asked to determine the market value of my boat, or if I am a seller, I want top dollar . At the same time, in this economy, the market is flooded with boats (although not all Whalers for sure).
What have recent purchasers of pre-owned (a.k.a "used") Whalers paid relative to NADA or BUC Value? In general, what is a fair price for a used Whaler?
Thanks
HuronBob posted 07-21-2008 11:56 AM ET (US)
too many factors to answer that..
other than "when the buyer and the seller both walk away with a smile, it was a fair price"
Tohsgib posted 07-21-2008 12:16 PM ET (US)
E-Bay is a great tool for your question.
TransAm posted 07-21-2008 01:31 PM ET (US)
I think E-bay will almost always present a lower than normal purchase price, expecially on big ticket items primarily because most folks are buying sight unseen. I have bought several cars and trucks on E-bay at substantially less than blue book, or even wholesale pricing. Generally speaking, purchasers look to be rewarded with a below normal price in exchange for the added risk.
Most Whaler owners are willing to pay a premium over both NADA and BUC pricing.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 07-21-2008 02:52 PM ET (US)
Referring to NADA for value is like asking what brand of engine you like. You will get 1000 different opinions.
To obtain useful information, one should offer specific information and a specific question.
Hypothetical restated question.
I am in the market to buy a (year range) (Boat model/size) in excellent/good/project grade shape. Want/don't want trailer. Interested/not interested in newer power. Electronics are/are not important. Live in _______ region of the country.
What is a realistic price range, given the season and current market conditions?
If a seller, flip it around.
This would give you some meaningful responses.
Brian7son posted 07-21-2008 03:56 PM ET (US)
Another idea to give you a barometer of the market is to check both traderonline.com and boats.com. Enter the year make and model of the boat and do a nationwide or within 500 mile search. You will get a good ball park idea of what the asking prices are. In my experience, the "take price" is usually at least 10% or more less than the asking price. Most of those sites will also list the date that the ad was placed. That's a good way to see if the owner is asking too much. If the boat's been listed for 6 months, the seller's price may be a little high for the current market.
NItroB posted 07-21-2008 05:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks to everyone for the responses thus far. Following Casco Bay's lead:
I am in New England. I am looking into the potential purchase of a 2003 Ventura 210 with a Mercury 200XL engine. The Ventura (and engine) have "low" hours and are both in good condition. The Ventura does not come with a trailer (which I will need) so I have to buy a separate tandem trailer for this boat. It has a GPS, Chartplotter and VHF radio.
Any thoughts on a realistic price range based on the time of year and current economic conditions would be greatly appreciated.
Tohsgib posted 07-21-2008 09:58 PM ET (US)
T/A..I have seen stuff go o e-bay for double the value. Sure with a Temptation they go cheap but that is what most Temptations go for. When you see a 1987 13' mint Whaler bring $9k...no way Craigslist wuld have done that. I think E-Bay is a great way to test the waters, especially from March-June.
TransAm posted 07-22-2008 11:49 AM ET (US)
Nick,
I did not say that nothing will sell for market or above market price on e-bay, and made no specific reference to Whalers. I am a big e-bay fan and buy everything from starbucks coffee ($6.00/lb) to 1999 twin Yamaha 250's ($4,500 under NADA) to 3/4 ton pickup trucks ($6,000 under NADA), and everything in between, all substantially less than market values. I routinely buy new, or near new props (just bought a set of 23P Mirage plus props, new for $550) for almost half the price of most shops. In General, most things on e-bay sell for less than otherwise accepted market value-that is my opinion. Are their exceptions, sure, especially when you are talking about "classic" anything, Whalers, cars, etc. I also didn't say e-bay was not a good tool-I use it in this way all the time. Just don't watch a couple 2003 Ventura's go for "X" dollars on e-bay and trot down to the Whaler dealership and expect the same deal.
Incidently, there is a 1988 22' Revenge about to go off auction listed for $7,200 with completely re-built Johnson 225 and 0 hours-No bidders, not even a sniff! The last Temptation I saw a couple weeks back went for almost $13K w/ two beat-up 200's on it-not bad.

Casco Bay Outrage posted 07-22-2008 03:05 PM ET (US)
Do a search for 2001-2003 Ventura 210 on
www.boattrader.com
www.yachtworld.com
for the entire country and you can see and compare.
A quick search finds listing prices range from 12k - 30k. That is a big range. 12k sounds fishy. So does 30k.

Brian7son posted 07-22-2008 03:40 PM ET (US)
I with Casco Bay Outrage. Run the search that he said, toss out the highest and the lowest price, then take the average of the remaining prices. That should give you a "range" to use as a reference point.
However, in this market, a steal of a deal can pop up on occassion. What you need to do is monitor those sites daily and see if something good pops up that's not too far from where you live. Be patient. I did that for almost 5 months before I found my 285 CQ (2.5 years ago).
The hunt for the boat is kind of fun.
Good luck
TransAm posted 07-22-2008 03:54 PM ET (US)
Why does $30K sound fishy?
Wasatch Whaler posted 07-22-2008 07:19 PM ET (US)
I too, think ebay sales of most items tend to be less than the market.
Just as TransAm said, you are bidding on stuff sight unseen and therefore expect a "deal". There are exceptions of course and I have seen used stuff sell for more than new. IMHO that's a reflection of the stupidity of the bidders.
You must do your research and come up with a price that you are willing to pay, then have the discipline to not exceed that price.
IIRC in a previous thread, from a month or two ago, LHG said that classic Whalers in really nice shape are holding their value, while those in average condition are selling a bit on the cheap side.


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Author	Topic: Market values
NItroB	posted 07-21-2008 11:15 AM ET (US) I've searched the posts and haven't seen this topic discussed recently--Market Values. I completely understand that if I am a current Whaler owner being asked to determine the market value of my boat, or if I am a seller, I want top dollar . At the same time, in this economy, the market is flooded with boats (although not all Whalers for sure). What have recent purchasers of pre-owned (a.k.a "used") Whalers paid relative to NADA or BUC Value? In general, what is a fair price for a used Whaler? Thanks
HuronBob	posted 07-21-2008 11:56 AM ET (US) too many factors to answer that.. other than "when the buyer and the seller both walk away with a smile, it was a fair price"
Tohsgib	posted 07-21-2008 12:16 PM ET (US) E-Bay is a great tool for your question.
TransAm	posted 07-21-2008 01:31 PM ET (US) I think E-bay will almost always present a lower than normal purchase price, expecially on big ticket items primarily because most folks are buying sight unseen. I have bought several cars and trucks on E-bay at substantially less than blue book, or even wholesale pricing. Generally speaking, purchasers look to be rewarded with a below normal price in exchange for the added risk. Most Whaler owners are willing to pay a premium over both NADA and BUC pricing.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 07-21-2008 02:52 PM ET (US) Referring to NADA for value is like asking what brand of engine you like. You will get 1000 different opinions. To obtain useful information, one should offer specific information and a specific question. Hypothetical restated question. I am in the market to buy a (year range) (Boat model/size) in excellent/good/project grade shape. Want/don't want trailer. Interested/not interested in newer power. Electronics are/are not important. Live in _______ region of the country. What is a realistic price range, given the season and current market conditions? If a seller, flip it around. This would give you some meaningful responses.
Brian7son	posted 07-21-2008 03:56 PM ET (US) Another idea to give you a barometer of the market is to check both traderonline.com and boats.com. Enter the year make and model of the boat and do a nationwide or within 500 mile search. You will get a good ball park idea of what the asking prices are. In my experience, the "take price" is usually at least 10% or more less than the asking price. Most of those sites will also list the date that the ad was placed. That's a good way to see if the owner is asking too much. If the boat's been listed for 6 months, the seller's price may be a little high for the current market.
NItroB	posted 07-21-2008 05:25 PM ET (US) Thanks to everyone for the responses thus far. Following Casco Bay's lead: I am in New England. I am looking into the potential purchase of a 2003 Ventura 210 with a Mercury 200XL engine. The Ventura (and engine) have "low" hours and are both in good condition. The Ventura does not come with a trailer (which I will need) so I have to buy a separate tandem trailer for this boat. It has a GPS, Chartplotter and VHF radio. Any thoughts on a realistic price range based on the time of year and current economic conditions would be greatly appreciated.
Tohsgib	posted 07-21-2008 09:58 PM ET (US) T/A..I have seen stuff go o e-bay for double the value. Sure with a Temptation they go cheap but that is what most Temptations go for. When you see a 1987 13' mint Whaler bring $9k...no way Craigslist wuld have done that. I think E-Bay is a great way to test the waters, especially from March-June.
TransAm	posted 07-22-2008 11:49 AM ET (US) Nick, I did not say that nothing will sell for market or above market price on e-bay, and made no specific reference to Whalers. I am a big e-bay fan and buy everything from starbucks coffee ($6.00/lb) to 1999 twin Yamaha 250's ($4,500 under NADA) to 3/4 ton pickup trucks ($6,000 under NADA), and everything in between, all substantially less than market values. I routinely buy new, or near new props (just bought a set of 23P Mirage plus props, new for $550) for almost half the price of most shops. In General, most things on e-bay sell for less than otherwise accepted market value-that is my opinion. Are their exceptions, sure, especially when you are talking about "classic" anything, Whalers, cars, etc. I also didn't say e-bay was not a good tool-I use it in this way all the time. Just don't watch a couple 2003 Ventura's go for "X" dollars on e-bay and trot down to the Whaler dealership and expect the same deal. Incidently, there is a 1988 22' Revenge about to go off auction listed for $7,200 with completely re-built Johnson 225 and 0 hours-No bidders, not even a sniff! The last Temptation I saw a couple weeks back went for almost $13K w/ two beat-up 200's on it-not bad.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 07-22-2008 03:05 PM ET (US) Do a search for 2001-2003 Ventura 210 on www.boattrader.com www.yachtworld.com for the entire country and you can see and compare. A quick search finds listing prices range from 12k - 30k. That is a big range. 12k sounds fishy. So does 30k.
Brian7son	posted 07-22-2008 03:40 PM ET (US) I with Casco Bay Outrage. Run the search that he said, toss out the highest and the lowest price, then take the average of the remaining prices. That should give you a "range" to use as a reference point. However, in this market, a steal of a deal can pop up on occassion. What you need to do is monitor those sites daily and see if something good pops up that's not too far from where you live. Be patient. I did that for almost 5 months before I found my 285 CQ (2.5 years ago). The hunt for the boat is kind of fun. Good luck
TransAm	posted 07-22-2008 03:54 PM ET (US) Why does $30K sound fishy?
Wasatch Whaler	posted 07-22-2008 07:19 PM ET (US) I too, think ebay sales of most items tend to be less than the market. Just as TransAm said, you are bidding on stuff sight unseen and therefore expect a "deal". There are exceptions of course and I have seen used stuff sell for more than new. IMHO that's a reflection of the stupidity of the bidders. You must do your research and come up with a price that you are willing to pay, then have the discipline to not exceed that price. IIRC in a previous thread, from a month or two ago, LHG said that classic Whalers in really nice shape are holding their value, while those in average condition are selling a bit on the cheap side.