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Author Topic:   The economy vs. new boat prices

nats posted 12-09-2008 08:11 PM ET (US)
Thinking of buying new in the Spring. How do you think the economy will reflect on BW prices at the upcoming boat shows. Do you think dealers or the buyers will make out best?
TransAm posted 12-09-2008 08:37 PM ET (US)
Neither
chopbuster posted 12-09-2008 08:55 PM ET (US)
Serious dealers needing to move '07 '08 leftover inventory will be taking it in the shorts, so to speak.
Serious buyers that don't hold dealers feet to the fire in negotiations are foolhardy.
20dauntless posted 12-09-2008 10:26 PM ET (US)
Your best bet is to go with a boat that has been sitting on a dealers lot for a long time. Typically they are paying interest on the boat and want to move it.
Also remember that prices seem to go up every year on new boats, especially as of late. Boat production is heavily dependent on petroleum prices and manufacturers adjust accordingly.
My guess, which is not based on any hard facts, would be that the mid range Whalers will be the most heavily discounted. The smaller boats appeal to people that are stepping down from the mid range boats because of rising costs and are very fuel efficient, high quality, and sea worthy which makes them (I think) more immune to the financial crisis. Likewise, the very large Whalers appeal to the upper end of the market, which has definitely slowed significantly, but not as much as the mid range boats.
Just my $.02
chopbuster posted 12-09-2008 10:34 PM ET (US)
Interesting pricing offers.
http://www.imboats.com/deals/whalerdeals.html
hockeycrew posted 12-10-2008 11:20 AM ET (US)
I have been looking around for a Montauk 190 and what was "We sell these boats at list price" has been changed to " we have several in stock and make us an offer"
Anyone who pays MSRP in the winter with the amount of inventory the boat dealers have is crazy. I suspect in a few more months I will purchase a leftover 08 for under 35K with the 135 Verado.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 12-10-2008 11:44 AM ET (US)
Some dealers have given over inventory to the banks, ie Legendary Marine has a large stock of new Pursuits that the Bank will take offers on. For ex. a new 285OS could be picked up for less than $75k. Sooner or later the same will happen with other boat dealers and than you could conceivably purchase for .50 on the dollar.
Tohsgib posted 12-10-2008 12:12 PM ET (US)
The internet is filled with 1-2 year old boats that people are willing to sell for their loan amount so not to hurt their credit with a repo. I bet if you look you'll find that 190 Montauk for about $30k with maybe 50 hours on it.
whalerfran posted 12-10-2008 03:22 PM ET (US)
Be sure to take title in hand when you turn over your payment. Even (or maybe especially) when purchasing from a dealer these days.
wbullwin posted 12-10-2008 04:27 PM ET (US)
I think a 2009 190 Montauk with the 135 could be had right now for under $35K if you really play hardball!
Whalerdog posted 12-10-2008 06:38 PM ET (US)
If it gets much worse for dealers they won't be there to give them away, they will be gone. I guess a good service department is their lifeline now and low overhead.
Island Marine posted 12-11-2008 10:11 AM ET (US)
I wanted to thank Chopbuster for the advertising by posting our website here. It prompted me to become a member of the forums.
I few thoughts to the various posts:
Nats - Buyers will definitely benefit from the upcoming boat shows. You may not find many deals on 2009 models, but the 2008 & 2007 models will have some great deals to be taken advantage of. Like most other dealers, we are not ordering in many 2009 models until we move some of the older units.
20dauntless - You are correct that boat production is dependent on petroleum prices. Price increases usually run in the 4 to 5% range the last few years so buying a 2008 or 2007 model will automatically save you money.
hockeycrew & wbullwin - I don't think you will see a 190 Montauk with a 135 Verado for under $35k especially a 2009 model. The 190 Montauk was one of our best sellers this year and we sold everyone we had.
whalerdog - You thoughts are sobering and to some extent true as I know of a few dealers that have already called it quits in this environment. It definetely takes a strong service department and making adjustments to overhead to keep things going today.
On a positive note, most of the Whaler dealers I speak with are financially strong and will be here for many years to come. As a buyer I know that all of you are looking for a good deal and in this economy you are looking for a great deal. There are deals out there but please remember that as a dealer we do need to make a profit on what we sell or we won't be in business very long. I hope that most buyers will be bringing their boats back in for service and will want a strong dealer in their area that has the finances to keep up on the latest software/computers and sends their techs to school every year.
Finally, as a courtesy most Whaler dealers will not sell a boat out of their territory without checking in with the local dealer first. That's not to say that the non-local dealer will not sell you the boat, but the preferred way is to have the boat sold by the dealer that will be providing you with the follow up service.
I apologize if I was long winded. Happy Holidays to everyone and good luck on your quest in finding your next Whaler.
Island Marine
www.imboats.com

themclos posted 12-11-2008 10:26 AM ET (US)
Island Marine,
Thanks you for your comments and insight.
Dan
siesta302 posted 12-13-2008 12:59 PM ET (US)
Island Marine
Thanks for the insightful message. I am in the SW Florida area looking for a new Dauntless 230, Outrage 24/27. I am watching the website pricing so if there is a material drop in prices I can move quickly. Everytime I get close to pulling the trigger and make the trade the economy takes another huge step backwards so I wait. Not what a dealer wants to hear but unfortunately in this economy, as you observed, buyers are looking for a great deal to avoid feeling like a schmuck later. I can only hope for all of us this economy begins to mend but I am fearful we are a couple years away from the beginnings of a recovery. Thanks again for your message.

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Author	Topic: The economy vs. new boat prices
nats	posted 12-09-2008 08:11 PM ET (US) Thinking of buying new in the Spring. How do you think the economy will reflect on BW prices at the upcoming boat shows. Do you think dealers or the buyers will make out best?
TransAm	posted 12-09-2008 08:37 PM ET (US) Neither
chopbuster	posted 12-09-2008 08:55 PM ET (US) Serious dealers needing to move '07 '08 leftover inventory will be taking it in the shorts, so to speak. Serious buyers that don't hold dealers feet to the fire in negotiations are foolhardy.
20dauntless	posted 12-09-2008 10:26 PM ET (US) Your best bet is to go with a boat that has been sitting on a dealers lot for a long time. Typically they are paying interest on the boat and want to move it. Also remember that prices seem to go up every year on new boats, especially as of late. Boat production is heavily dependent on petroleum prices and manufacturers adjust accordingly. My guess, which is not based on any hard facts, would be that the mid range Whalers will be the most heavily discounted. The smaller boats appeal to people that are stepping down from the mid range boats because of rising costs and are very fuel efficient, high quality, and sea worthy which makes them (I think) more immune to the financial crisis. Likewise, the very large Whalers appeal to the upper end of the market, which has definitely slowed significantly, but not as much as the mid range boats. Just my $.02
chopbuster	posted 12-09-2008 10:34 PM ET (US) Interesting pricing offers. http://www.imboats.com/deals/whalerdeals.html
hockeycrew	posted 12-10-2008 11:20 AM ET (US) I have been looking around for a Montauk 190 and what was "We sell these boats at list price" has been changed to " we have several in stock and make us an offer" Anyone who pays MSRP in the winter with the amount of inventory the boat dealers have is crazy. I suspect in a few more months I will purchase a leftover 08 for under 35K with the 135 Verado.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 12-10-2008 11:44 AM ET (US) Some dealers have given over inventory to the banks, ie Legendary Marine has a large stock of new Pursuits that the Bank will take offers on. For ex. a new 285OS could be picked up for less than $75k. Sooner or later the same will happen with other boat dealers and than you could conceivably purchase for .50 on the dollar.
Tohsgib	posted 12-10-2008 12:12 PM ET (US) The internet is filled with 1-2 year old boats that people are willing to sell for their loan amount so not to hurt their credit with a repo. I bet if you look you'll find that 190 Montauk for about $30k with maybe 50 hours on it.
whalerfran	posted 12-10-2008 03:22 PM ET (US) Be sure to take title in hand when you turn over your payment. Even (or maybe especially) when purchasing from a dealer these days.
wbullwin	posted 12-10-2008 04:27 PM ET (US) I think a 2009 190 Montauk with the 135 could be had right now for under $35K if you really play hardball!
Whalerdog	posted 12-10-2008 06:38 PM ET (US) If it gets much worse for dealers they won't be there to give them away, they will be gone. I guess a good service department is their lifeline now and low overhead.
Island Marine	posted 12-11-2008 10:11 AM ET (US) I wanted to thank Chopbuster for the advertising by posting our website here. It prompted me to become a member of the forums. I few thoughts to the various posts: Nats - Buyers will definitely benefit from the upcoming boat shows. You may not find many deals on 2009 models, but the 2008 & 2007 models will have some great deals to be taken advantage of. Like most other dealers, we are not ordering in many 2009 models until we move some of the older units. 20dauntless - You are correct that boat production is dependent on petroleum prices. Price increases usually run in the 4 to 5% range the last few years so buying a 2008 or 2007 model will automatically save you money. hockeycrew & wbullwin - I don't think you will see a 190 Montauk with a 135 Verado for under $35k especially a 2009 model. The 190 Montauk was one of our best sellers this year and we sold everyone we had. whalerdog - You thoughts are sobering and to some extent true as I know of a few dealers that have already called it quits in this environment. It definetely takes a strong service department and making adjustments to overhead to keep things going today. On a positive note, most of the Whaler dealers I speak with are financially strong and will be here for many years to come. As a buyer I know that all of you are looking for a good deal and in this economy you are looking for a great deal. There are deals out there but please remember that as a dealer we do need to make a profit on what we sell or we won't be in business very long. I hope that most buyers will be bringing their boats back in for service and will want a strong dealer in their area that has the finances to keep up on the latest software/computers and sends their techs to school every year. Finally, as a courtesy most Whaler dealers will not sell a boat out of their territory without checking in with the local dealer first. That's not to say that the non-local dealer will not sell you the boat, but the preferred way is to have the boat sold by the dealer that will be providing you with the follow up service. I apologize if I was long winded. Happy Holidays to everyone and good luck on your quest in finding your next Whaler. Island Marine www.imboats.com
themclos	posted 12-11-2008 10:26 AM ET (US) Island Marine, Thanks you for your comments and insight. Dan
siesta302	posted 12-13-2008 12:59 PM ET (US) Island Marine Thanks for the insightful message. I am in the SW Florida area looking for a new Dauntless 230, Outrage 24/27. I am watching the website pricing so if there is a material drop in prices I can move quickly. Everytime I get close to pulling the trigger and make the trade the economy takes another huge step backwards so I wait. Not what a dealer wants to hear but unfortunately in this economy, as you observed, buyers are looking for a great deal to avoid feeling like a schmuck later. I can only hope for all of us this economy begins to mend but I am fearful we are a couple years away from the beginnings of a recovery. Thanks again for your message.