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L H G posted 01-19-2009 03:02 PM ET (US)
Thought this article may be of interest, since it talks about Brunswick.
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/index.php/home/ 496669-analyst-permanent-contraction-expected-for-industry-in-09 .
frontier posted 01-19-2009 03:14 PM ET (US)
Very interesting.
Especially the part, speaking of Brunswick:
"It needs to reinvest in its core business and return to making good boats that it sells to a passionate customer base,”
I believe that 'passionate customer base' is us!
highanddry posted 01-19-2009 03:46 PM ET (US)
No, the "passionate customer base" would be the one that actually buys new product.
Whaler19 posted 01-19-2009 04:47 PM ET (US)
If I had to guess I bet the company, private equity group, or lucky person that owns the Whaler name in 2011-12 only makes the Sport and Montuak lines...or Whalers than fit on single axle trailers.
Buckda posted 01-19-2009 05:47 PM ET (US)
The passage I found interesting was this one:

quote:
...consumer spending habits likely will undergo a structural change, and demand for “big ticket toys” will be pressured for years to come, according to Wolff’s report. There are also issues of time constraints, shrinking portfolios, the availability of insurance in certain regions, and last year’s high fuel prices.
This seems in direct contradiction to the direction that the marketing departments of most boat builders are moving today. Everything is getting larger, more elaborate, more materials, heavier and more expensive.
It is not just Whaler/Brunswick that are moving this direction - the whole industry is in motion and trending this way.
Will the survivors emerge stratified between yacht-level offerings and mere fishing boats?
The article made reference to companies such as Hinkley surviving. I infer that because of the well-heeled clientele and low volume, that orders may remain steady for these elite boat-makers.
However, for the "everyman" offering, things might be more difficult.
It is curious that in the trend of the '90's and early 2000's we saw homogenization of boats - every company started to imitate the other and many look very similar/the same as their competition. In fact, if you look at aluminum fishing boats, I believe that many of them ARE the same hull, built by the same men and women, with simple differences in paint, finish and interiors.
Brands with very strong reputations and differentiators, and well-funded customers will survive. Hinkley is likely in a better position for survival than Boston Whaler, but I'd guess Boston Whaler is in a much better position to survive than most - that is, if Brunswick can stay afloat.
Remember, the Unsinkable Legend CAN sink, if you introduce enough weight. The rail-car that is the rest of Brunswick could very easily represent too heavy a burden for the dauntless hull of a Whaler to keep afloat.
Of course, once the weight is cut loose, the Whaler hull will pop to the surface.
Lets say a quick prayer tonight that the men and women running Brunswick make good and sound decisions to keep our beloved brand alive and kicking through these challenging times.
fourdfish posted 01-19-2009 06:27 PM ET (US)
I rest my case on my past postings of opinions about Brunswick. If you look at Brunswick, you will find that one
of their core producers is their fitness division not the marine group. Lifefitness commercial exercise equipment is one of their best money makers.
Sal A posted 01-19-2009 08:28 PM ET (US)
I have bought five new Boston Whalers since 2002. Five.
They need to hire the Eagles or Linda Rondstadt to play a private concert in my house. And then arrange for me to "win" a 2010 Camaro. And then a date with Cameron Diaz.
I predict they will do none of the above. And it is because of that that I will not purchase a new whaler in 2009.
Feejer posted 01-19-2009 08:33 PM ET (US)
If you do get the Eagles to play let us know. It looks like I'll be getting a new boat in 09. A leftover but still new.
SC Joe posted 01-19-2009 08:42 PM ET (US)
Our local boat show is this weekend.
If my local dealer makes me an offer I can't refuse, I'll trade up to a 190.
Any bets on me still my having my 170 on Monday?
jimh posted 01-19-2009 08:53 PM ET (US)
I got a laugh out of that "expert" opinion suggesting that Brunswick needs to pay more dividends. Any investor who thinks they can live off the dividends of a recreational boat building company is not a very savvy investor.
Mambo Minnow posted 01-20-2009 12:49 AM ET (US)
I find the reports comments on Grady White more applicable to Boston Whaler than Hinckley. GW is their direct competition for the cuddy cabins and the 180 CC is a competitor to the Outrage 190.
Can't help but wonder how GW has managed not to get acquired like BW did by Brunswick.
Sal A posted 01-20-2009 06:31 AM ET (US)
That analyst report was one of the most generic, bland, and obvious reports I have read in a while. It is funny that some firms pay for that "research", and that an analyst was paid to write it.
Feejer posted 01-20-2009 06:54 AM ET (US)
All bets are off...........
Peter posted 01-20-2009 08:00 AM ET (US)
"Can't help but wonder how GW has managed not to get acquired like BW did by Brunswick."
I think GW was better managed and more stable than BW was during the early 1990s. BW went through a couple of owners, including Reebok, during that time which always creates turmoil within the organization as each owner has their own idea about how to run the company. It seems that came up with some very costly new designs during that time and I think became uncompetitive as a result.
L H G posted 01-20-2009 11:21 AM ET (US)
The word I have heard is that Meridian, 1993-1995, almost ran the Company into the ground, and without Brunswick, BW might have been gone. Because of the radical Reebock era changes in hull designs and termination of the Dougherty designs, they inherited practically nothing left to sell that anybody wanted. The Reebock 21 and 23 Walkarounds were nice, but slow sellers, and too costly to manufacture and quickly converted into the 21 and 24 Outrages. The 31 was a dog and dying. The Montauks were white and all plastic. The little Reebock designed 13's and 15's were non-sellers. The huge success of the Rage had disappeared. Meridian bailed out for a mere 27M from Brunswick.
Grady suffered none of these trajedies.
My idea of the biggest mistake made by CML group, in their dying throes and desperation to save their conglomerate from Irwin Jacobs and Genmar (Jacobs had been accumulating CML stock in an effort to take them over and grab Whaler out of it), was selling to Reebock instead of letting Dougherty buy out the company? Reebock, knowing nothing about boats, brought in Peter Van Lancker, recent President of failed Black Watch, who in true designer tradition, had a big enough ego that anything Dougherty did had to go.
So now we are looking at small Whalers with blue and yellow decals pasted on the side of them, apparently seeking to duplicate the latest "look" of the garrish Sea Doos! I believe the best boats, most relevent, and most promising sellers, in Whaler's line today are the 170 and 190 Montauks. I think they are nice boats.
20dauntless posted 01-20-2009 11:48 AM ET (US)
I'm not exactly sure why Grady was able to stay independent, but around the PNW they seem to sell a lot more of the larger, higher end boats than Whaler does, especially the walkarounds. Just as an example, of the homeowners that I share a dock with in the San Juans, 7 of them have Grady's and 3 have Whalers. Of the Whalers, my 1996 Dauntless is the newest, the other two are an older 18 Outrage and 22 Revenge. Most of the Grady's are between 22 and 24 feet and many of these people are repeat Grady buyers.
I have talked with several of these people about why they chose to buy Grady's, and near the top of their list was the dealer. Here in Washington the Grady dealer is Jacobsens which is an old, family owned dealership that is widely held in high regard and was a long time ago the Whaler dealer here. Our current Whaler dealer is Lake Union Sea Ray, which, in my opinion, leaves much to be desired.
Several years back we tried to buy a 13 or 15 from LUSR. Instead, they pushed us towards a low end Sea Ray or replacing the 20 Dauntless with a 220 Dauntless. Last year we tried to buy a 22 C-Dory from them and nearly all my emails went unanswered. Luckily there is another C-Dory dealer nearby so I bought the boat from them.
The other complaints from the Grady owners involved ride. Some of then, including former Whaler owners, simply liked the ride a lot better on the Grady's. And nearly all of them cited the desire for Yamaha power as a reason for their final decision.
Grady White has also been much more consistent in the designs as of late. Small things change, but their overall style is much more "timeless" than some of the new Whalers.
Most of these owners could have purchased any boat they wanted under 25 feet (max size allowed on dock) and the vast majority chose to buy walkaround Grady's over all other brands. Whaler builds a great boat, one that is virtually indestructible and well built, but when people think of Whaler they think of small, open boats. At least around here, it seems like plenty of other companies dominate the larger walkaround category.
frontier posted 01-20-2009 12:44 PM ET (US)
Dealers do make a huge difference.
20Dauntless mentioned Jacobsens in Seattle.
Not only were they a Boston Whaler dealer in the past, at one time they were the largest selling Whaler dealer in the world.
It's no wonder Grady White sells so many boats in this area - they have a great dealer - Jacobsens.
Boston Whaler does not.
Our local dealer would much rather sell you a SeaRay.
They told me so.
Parts knowledge is nil.
There is still time.
Maybe someday Boston Whaler will realize that family owned dealerships like Twin Cities Marine in Wisconsin is the key to a better future.
They sell a good product and know what they are talking about.
People WANT to buy from them.

Whalerdog posted 01-20-2009 06:37 PM ET (US)
With the banks collapsing further as they jave today I see a grim picture for the marine industry with tight credit and consumer confidence so low.
Kingsteven18 posted 01-20-2009 06:55 PM ET (US)
No-one is buying the used boats unless they are almost free. That adds to the death of new sales.
WT posted 01-20-2009 07:23 PM ET (US)
Marine industry predictions for 2009?
I feel boat builders will face the same challenges as homebuilders. Consumers are going to buy used (foreclosures) rather than new.
My buddy just bought a 2006 Mercedes E55 with 30,000 miles for $31,000. The car was purchased new 2 years ago in excess of $80,000.
I predict a lot of boat repossessions this year along with sales at fire sale prices. The more expensive the retail price of the boat, the better the fire sale price.
I hope I'm wrong.
Warren
20dauntless posted 01-20-2009 07:58 PM ET (US)
Just an aside...WT, your buddy is going to love that car. I have an 04 E320 4matic that has been fantastic, not a single problem. If only I could justify the added cost and increased fuel consumption of the AMG for a daily driver...
WT posted 01-20-2009 08:41 PM ET (US)
Here's a pic of his new toy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/DSC_6675.jpg
I can buy a 2006 CLS 500 with 29,000 miles for $30,000.
The point is that a lot of expensive toys are now hitting the used market at cheap prices for those with cash.
Warren
fourdfish posted 01-20-2009 08:45 PM ET (US)
Some indication of the economy! Today I saw 2 two year old houses which were built for over $200,000 going for right around $100,000. I just might buy!
soggy bottom boy posted 01-20-2009 09:12 PM ET (US)

I am with WT, lots of toys hitting the market. I am in Canada, and we typically lag the U.S. economic woes by a few months, and post-Christmas there have been more and more "deals" hitting the market. This in an economy without the same banking/credit-crisis as the U.S., but very much integrated given the auto-centric manufacturing sector here in Ontario.
I will buy in 2009, but in the used car/truck/boat and resale real estate market.
Good luck all,
Soggy.
Mambo Minnow posted 01-21-2009 07:01 AM ET (US)
I agree with Frontier's comments. I was fortunate in that Nauset Marine and Russo Marine have been stable family dealers in Boston. Florida is overwhelmed with Marine Max, and I agree they'd rather sell you a Sea Ray Sundeck.
The only model Whalers I would buy in the current lineup are the 150/170/190 Montauks and the 235 Conquest.
For larger center console, I'd buy the Everglades.
I predict Whaler will drastically reduce number of models offered in the course of next two years.
elaelap posted 01-21-2009 10:12 PM ET (US)
You too, eh Sal? Every time I think about Cameron Diaz I get hives all over my face, start thinking about hair gel, and have serious problems with my zipper.
This too shall pass, lads & lassies. Best bet: a classic Montauk with a 60- or 70 hp four stroke. Keep 'er in good shape and your ride for the next decade (if you ever do decide to sell the boat) is basically free except for the fuel.
Tony
OIA posted 01-22-2009 11:50 PM ET (US)
The one thing that may save Whaler is their Government Division. They sell a lot of boats for military and police applications. Unfortuntately, Brunswick recently took the Whaler name off the side and replaced it with a new name (maybe Brunswick, I don't know). The Whaler plant in Florida is still manufacturing the boats for the government however. And, we're still at war and the Coast Guard and Homeland Security are still very high priorities.
I know what you mean by the importance of a good, quality dealership. Walk by a Marine Max salesman at a boat show and tell them you want something outside the box. They will look you right in the eye and explain how "no you don't want that." I had a good time at the Newport Boat show with salesman - one of their managers - a couple years back. I finally exclaimed: You have not asked me one question, how the hell do you know who I am or what I want!" He huffed and waved me away with his hand. Now that's top notch customer service there I'll tell you.
Nothing good is going to happen in the economy until the debt returns. (Right now it is literally non-existent.) Then the excisting inventory of homes, boats, cars etc will have to be gobbled up before the new home, boat, car industries return. It's going to take awhile, but when the debt returns I believe that we'll begin the run to the bottom. That being said, I've been searching for debt since last July, when, in the same week, two banks pulled contracts we were negotiating.
There still seems to be a lot of cash out there but without debt in the deal you can't offer the returns so the equity is not interested.
chopbuster posted 01-23-2009 09:01 AM ET (US)
The merchants of slop & crap will disappear and the cream
of the crop will rise & remain, didn't need a analyst for that.
Hopefully commie wal-mart is next on the chopping block.
69boo307 posted 01-23-2009 11:44 AM ET (US)
Look at this way, if the Whaler line is discontinued, that will only make the classic Whalers all the more valuable.
chopbuster posted 01-23-2009 12:21 PM ET (US)
More than ever cash talks and the BS does walk.
I mentioned doing a cash deal to a BW dealer recently
and he wanted to take me home for dinner & meet his daughter !

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Author	Topic: Marine industry predictions 2009
L H G	posted 01-19-2009 03:02 PM ET (US) Thought this article may be of interest, since it talks about Brunswick. http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/index.php/home/ 496669-analyst-permanent-contraction-expected-for-industry-in-09 .
frontier	posted 01-19-2009 03:14 PM ET (US) Very interesting. Especially the part, speaking of Brunswick: "It needs to reinvest in its core business and return to making good boats that it sells to a passionate customer base,” I believe that 'passionate customer base' is us!
highanddry	posted 01-19-2009 03:46 PM ET (US) No, the "passionate customer base" would be the one that actually buys new product.
Whaler19	posted 01-19-2009 04:47 PM ET (US) If I had to guess I bet the company, private equity group, or lucky person that owns the Whaler name in 2011-12 only makes the Sport and Montuak lines...or Whalers than fit on single axle trailers.
Buckda	posted 01-19-2009 05:47 PM ET (US) The passage I found interesting was this one: quote: ...consumer spending habits likely will undergo a structural change, and demand for “big ticket toys” will be pressured for years to come, according to Wolff’s report. There are also issues of time constraints, shrinking portfolios, the availability of insurance in certain regions, and last year’s high fuel prices. This seems in direct contradiction to the direction that the marketing departments of most boat builders are moving today. Everything is getting larger, more elaborate, more materials, heavier and more expensive. It is not just Whaler/Brunswick that are moving this direction - the whole industry is in motion and trending this way. Will the survivors emerge stratified between yacht-level offerings and mere fishing boats? The article made reference to companies such as Hinkley surviving. I infer that because of the well-heeled clientele and low volume, that orders may remain steady for these elite boat-makers. However, for the "everyman" offering, things might be more difficult. It is curious that in the trend of the '90's and early 2000's we saw homogenization of boats - every company started to imitate the other and many look very similar/the same as their competition. In fact, if you look at aluminum fishing boats, I believe that many of them ARE the same hull, built by the same men and women, with simple differences in paint, finish and interiors. Brands with very strong reputations and differentiators, and well-funded customers will survive. Hinkley is likely in a better position for survival than Boston Whaler, but I'd guess Boston Whaler is in a much better position to survive than most - that is, if Brunswick can stay afloat. Remember, the Unsinkable Legend CAN sink, if you introduce enough weight. The rail-car that is the rest of Brunswick could very easily represent too heavy a burden for the dauntless hull of a Whaler to keep afloat. Of course, once the weight is cut loose, the Whaler hull will pop to the surface. Lets say a quick prayer tonight that the men and women running Brunswick make good and sound decisions to keep our beloved brand alive and kicking through these challenging times.
fourdfish	posted 01-19-2009 06:27 PM ET (US) I rest my case on my past postings of opinions about Brunswick. If you look at Brunswick, you will find that one of their core producers is their fitness division not the marine group. Lifefitness commercial exercise equipment is one of their best money makers.
Sal A	posted 01-19-2009 08:28 PM ET (US) I have bought five new Boston Whalers since 2002. Five. They need to hire the Eagles or Linda Rondstadt to play a private concert in my house. And then arrange for me to "win" a 2010 Camaro. And then a date with Cameron Diaz. I predict they will do none of the above. And it is because of that that I will not purchase a new whaler in 2009.
Feejer	posted 01-19-2009 08:33 PM ET (US) If you do get the Eagles to play let us know. It looks like I'll be getting a new boat in 09. A leftover but still new.
SC Joe	posted 01-19-2009 08:42 PM ET (US) Our local boat show is this weekend. If my local dealer makes me an offer I can't refuse, I'll trade up to a 190. Any bets on me still my having my 170 on Monday?
jimh	posted 01-19-2009 08:53 PM ET (US) I got a laugh out of that "expert" opinion suggesting that Brunswick needs to pay more dividends. Any investor who thinks they can live off the dividends of a recreational boat building company is not a very savvy investor.
Mambo Minnow	posted 01-20-2009 12:49 AM ET (US) I find the reports comments on Grady White more applicable to Boston Whaler than Hinckley. GW is their direct competition for the cuddy cabins and the 180 CC is a competitor to the Outrage 190. Can't help but wonder how GW has managed not to get acquired like BW did by Brunswick.
Sal A	posted 01-20-2009 06:31 AM ET (US) That analyst report was one of the most generic, bland, and obvious reports I have read in a while. It is funny that some firms pay for that "research", and that an analyst was paid to write it.
Feejer	posted 01-20-2009 06:54 AM ET (US) All bets are off...........
Peter	posted 01-20-2009 08:00 AM ET (US) "Can't help but wonder how GW has managed not to get acquired like BW did by Brunswick." I think GW was better managed and more stable than BW was during the early 1990s. BW went through a couple of owners, including Reebok, during that time which always creates turmoil within the organization as each owner has their own idea about how to run the company. It seems that came up with some very costly new designs during that time and I think became uncompetitive as a result.
L H G	posted 01-20-2009 11:21 AM ET (US) The word I have heard is that Meridian, 1993-1995, almost ran the Company into the ground, and without Brunswick, BW might have been gone. Because of the radical Reebock era changes in hull designs and termination of the Dougherty designs, they inherited practically nothing left to sell that anybody wanted. The Reebock 21 and 23 Walkarounds were nice, but slow sellers, and too costly to manufacture and quickly converted into the 21 and 24 Outrages. The 31 was a dog and dying. The Montauks were white and all plastic. The little Reebock designed 13's and 15's were non-sellers. The huge success of the Rage had disappeared. Meridian bailed out for a mere 27M from Brunswick. Grady suffered none of these trajedies. My idea of the biggest mistake made by CML group, in their dying throes and desperation to save their conglomerate from Irwin Jacobs and Genmar (Jacobs had been accumulating CML stock in an effort to take them over and grab Whaler out of it), was selling to Reebock instead of letting Dougherty buy out the company? Reebock, knowing nothing about boats, brought in Peter Van Lancker, recent President of failed Black Watch, who in true designer tradition, had a big enough ego that anything Dougherty did had to go. So now we are looking at small Whalers with blue and yellow decals pasted on the side of them, apparently seeking to duplicate the latest "look" of the garrish Sea Doos! I believe the best boats, most relevent, and most promising sellers, in Whaler's line today are the 170 and 190 Montauks. I think they are nice boats.
20dauntless	posted 01-20-2009 11:48 AM ET (US) I'm not exactly sure why Grady was able to stay independent, but around the PNW they seem to sell a lot more of the larger, higher end boats than Whaler does, especially the walkarounds. Just as an example, of the homeowners that I share a dock with in the San Juans, 7 of them have Grady's and 3 have Whalers. Of the Whalers, my 1996 Dauntless is the newest, the other two are an older 18 Outrage and 22 Revenge. Most of the Grady's are between 22 and 24 feet and many of these people are repeat Grady buyers. I have talked with several of these people about why they chose to buy Grady's, and near the top of their list was the dealer. Here in Washington the Grady dealer is Jacobsens which is an old, family owned dealership that is widely held in high regard and was a long time ago the Whaler dealer here. Our current Whaler dealer is Lake Union Sea Ray, which, in my opinion, leaves much to be desired. Several years back we tried to buy a 13 or 15 from LUSR. Instead, they pushed us towards a low end Sea Ray or replacing the 20 Dauntless with a 220 Dauntless. Last year we tried to buy a 22 C-Dory from them and nearly all my emails went unanswered. Luckily there is another C-Dory dealer nearby so I bought the boat from them. The other complaints from the Grady owners involved ride. Some of then, including former Whaler owners, simply liked the ride a lot better on the Grady's. And nearly all of them cited the desire for Yamaha power as a reason for their final decision. Grady White has also been much more consistent in the designs as of late. Small things change, but their overall style is much more "timeless" than some of the new Whalers. Most of these owners could have purchased any boat they wanted under 25 feet (max size allowed on dock) and the vast majority chose to buy walkaround Grady's over all other brands. Whaler builds a great boat, one that is virtually indestructible and well built, but when people think of Whaler they think of small, open boats. At least around here, it seems like plenty of other companies dominate the larger walkaround category.
frontier	posted 01-20-2009 12:44 PM ET (US) Dealers do make a huge difference. 20Dauntless mentioned Jacobsens in Seattle. Not only were they a Boston Whaler dealer in the past, at one time they were the largest selling Whaler dealer in the world. It's no wonder Grady White sells so many boats in this area - they have a great dealer - Jacobsens. Boston Whaler does not. Our local dealer would much rather sell you a SeaRay. They told me so. Parts knowledge is nil. There is still time. Maybe someday Boston Whaler will realize that family owned dealerships like Twin Cities Marine in Wisconsin is the key to a better future. They sell a good product and know what they are talking about. People WANT to buy from them.
Whalerdog	posted 01-20-2009 06:37 PM ET (US) With the banks collapsing further as they jave today I see a grim picture for the marine industry with tight credit and consumer confidence so low.
Kingsteven18	posted 01-20-2009 06:55 PM ET (US) No-one is buying the used boats unless they are almost free. That adds to the death of new sales.
WT	posted 01-20-2009 07:23 PM ET (US) Marine industry predictions for 2009? I feel boat builders will face the same challenges as homebuilders. Consumers are going to buy used (foreclosures) rather than new. My buddy just bought a 2006 Mercedes E55 with 30,000 miles for $31,000. The car was purchased new 2 years ago in excess of $80,000. I predict a lot of boat repossessions this year along with sales at fire sale prices. The more expensive the retail price of the boat, the better the fire sale price. I hope I'm wrong. Warren
20dauntless	posted 01-20-2009 07:58 PM ET (US) Just an aside...WT, your buddy is going to love that car. I have an 04 E320 4matic that has been fantastic, not a single problem. If only I could justify the added cost and increased fuel consumption of the AMG for a daily driver...
WT	posted 01-20-2009 08:41 PM ET (US) Here's a pic of his new toy. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/DSC_6675.jpg I can buy a 2006 CLS 500 with 29,000 miles for $30,000. The point is that a lot of expensive toys are now hitting the used market at cheap prices for those with cash. Warren
fourdfish	posted 01-20-2009 08:45 PM ET (US) Some indication of the economy! Today I saw 2 two year old houses which were built for over $200,000 going for right around $100,000. I just might buy!
soggy bottom boy	posted 01-20-2009 09:12 PM ET (US) I am with WT, lots of toys hitting the market. I am in Canada, and we typically lag the U.S. economic woes by a few months, and post-Christmas there have been more and more "deals" hitting the market. This in an economy without the same banking/credit-crisis as the U.S., but very much integrated given the auto-centric manufacturing sector here in Ontario. I will buy in 2009, but in the used car/truck/boat and resale real estate market. Good luck all, Soggy.
Mambo Minnow	posted 01-21-2009 07:01 AM ET (US) I agree with Frontier's comments. I was fortunate in that Nauset Marine and Russo Marine have been stable family dealers in Boston. Florida is overwhelmed with Marine Max, and I agree they'd rather sell you a Sea Ray Sundeck. The only model Whalers I would buy in the current lineup are the 150/170/190 Montauks and the 235 Conquest. For larger center console, I'd buy the Everglades. I predict Whaler will drastically reduce number of models offered in the course of next two years.
elaelap	posted 01-21-2009 10:12 PM ET (US) You too, eh Sal? Every time I think about Cameron Diaz I get hives all over my face, start thinking about hair gel, and have serious problems with my zipper. This too shall pass, lads & lassies. Best bet: a classic Montauk with a 60- or 70 hp four stroke. Keep 'er in good shape and your ride for the next decade (if you ever do decide to sell the boat) is basically free except for the fuel. Tony
OIA	posted 01-22-2009 11:50 PM ET (US) The one thing that may save Whaler is their Government Division. They sell a lot of boats for military and police applications. Unfortuntately, Brunswick recently took the Whaler name off the side and replaced it with a new name (maybe Brunswick, I don't know). The Whaler plant in Florida is still manufacturing the boats for the government however. And, we're still at war and the Coast Guard and Homeland Security are still very high priorities. I know what you mean by the importance of a good, quality dealership. Walk by a Marine Max salesman at a boat show and tell them you want something outside the box. They will look you right in the eye and explain how "no you don't want that." I had a good time at the Newport Boat show with salesman - one of their managers - a couple years back. I finally exclaimed: You have not asked me one question, how the hell do you know who I am or what I want!" He huffed and waved me away with his hand. Now that's top notch customer service there I'll tell you. Nothing good is going to happen in the economy until the debt returns. (Right now it is literally non-existent.) Then the excisting inventory of homes, boats, cars etc will have to be gobbled up before the new home, boat, car industries return. It's going to take awhile, but when the debt returns I believe that we'll begin the run to the bottom. That being said, I've been searching for debt since last July, when, in the same week, two banks pulled contracts we were negotiating. There still seems to be a lot of cash out there but without debt in the deal you can't offer the returns so the equity is not interested.
chopbuster	posted 01-23-2009 09:01 AM ET (US) The merchants of slop & crap will disappear and the cream of the crop will rise & remain, didn't need a analyst for that. Hopefully commie wal-mart is next on the chopping block.
69boo307	posted 01-23-2009 11:44 AM ET (US) Look at this way, if the Whaler line is discontinued, that will only make the classic Whalers all the more valuable.
chopbuster	posted 01-23-2009 12:21 PM ET (US) More than ever cash talks and the BS does walk. I mentioned doing a cash deal to a BW dealer recently and he wanted to take me home for dinner & meet his daughter !