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Author Topic:   Whaler Hull Designers

Ritzyrags posted 01-19-2009 05:42 PM ET (US)
I am looking through the files for the designer of the Classic Outrage 19 mid seventies era.
I have come up with Dick Fisher's name but little else.
I am trying to search and document about the people involved with this design.
The 1980's saw Bob Dougherty as Chief Designer doing a new style of hulls in the Outrage and Revenge models.
Knowing where it went from there I am looking for info on the early seventies designs.
Any Idea Tom?
L H G posted 01-19-2009 07:19 PM ET (US)
I believe the very first Boston Whaler Outrage, what we now call the 1971 21 "ribside", was designed by Dick Fisher and Bob Dougherty working together. The stern half of the hull bottom is almost identical to the existing 16' hull of the time, while the bow half introduced the beginning of Whaler's V hulls. The boat began some of Whaler's famous innovations:
The Reversible Pilot seat
The original "Boston Whaler Smirk"
The tan canvas lace-on windshield screen
The first Igloo cooler seat in front of the console
Outrageous looks, unlike any other boat on the market. I have heard that the "ribs" were Fisher's idea, and that Dougherty didn't like them.
After this boat, I believe Fisher sold and left the company, keeping a '71 Outrage for his own personal boat. The 1973 smoothside 21 Outrage and 1973 19 Outrage must have been the refinement work Bob Dougherty, with very subtle changes to the bow area of the hull and Smirk. The bottom configuration of the 19 appears to be simply a cut off 21.
Ritzyrags posted 01-20-2009 12:11 AM ET (US)
Well,
Thank you Larry for your helpful data.
Yes,
Isn't it interesting how this specific model has somehow managed to be of unclear and obscured origins, and not much discussed in origins even though there is a reasonably good amount of units still been seen in the eastern hemisphere.
Seems like the design project coincided with the departure and arrival of those well known designers working and been stake holders within the company..
As suggested would it be possible that it was a project still on the drawing boards and completed by Bob?
I would also be curious to know of how many bare hulls were molded and the respective numbers for Revenge and Outrage units for the early to mid seventies years.
L H G posted 01-20-2009 01:43 AM ET (US)
Chuck Bennett told me there were 1435 19' Outrage/Revenge hulls manufactured from Aug 1972 through Jul 1979. No information on how many were Outrages vs Revenges. My 1975 model is hull #750, manufactured in Oct 1974.
There were 722 Ribside 21 hulls made over a 2 year period.
My 1971 model is hull #132, manufactured Dec 20, 1970.
Ritzyrags posted 01-20-2009 03:16 AM ET (US)
Again,
The question remains,
Is there any more data that remains out there about this specific hull design?
Well,
I guess,I would be impressed to hear from the sources;
If they do care to comment.
Regards,
Serge.
draftsman posted 01-20-2009 08:20 AM ET (US)
I'd say that what you see is what you get, numbers of how many made. If I had to guess, it was all Bob D.s doing. If there is a drawing with a date or any info on it, it is now buried back in a corner of a storeroom along with all the rest of the old drawings, original art, and information. I doubt any of it will ever see the light of day again, unless it is being thrown in the trash... I myself have asked to be allowed to get more of the artwork that I and all of you need several times, only to be turned away. I just don't get it... Well, I do really, but it's my own opinion and I'll keep it to myself. Probably the only way to get that info is to catch Bob at Miami or some other boat show and ask him. Good luck with you quest....
Ritzyrags posted 01-20-2009 12:41 PM ET (US)
Well John,
It is unmistakably the voicing of facts and common sense when I am reading of your thoughts.
I think that there is so very much left untapped, and unused.
I sense that there is an enormous amount of potential energy for all aspects of this boat business still buried in the files.
I bet that when you finally get to study the documented and dusty files,you will find plenty of ongoing ideas, developing projects and results that could be seen as useful even by today's standards.
Not only that but can you imagine what some of those original drawings and prints would bring at an open auction?
For a good cause of course...
I can think of a few that have been intruding on me lately..
Serge.
Ritzyrags posted 01-20-2009 07:43 PM ET (US)
Well,
It just came to me while tidying up the black top that for some reasons this nineteen foot hull has had a certain amount of mystery attached to it.
And this simply in the fact that for some muted reasons; No one has officially taken credit for it..Either by choice or by non revealing clause .
With that many units still being used today it is a wonder that no clear claim has somehow been made about this numerous offerings design.
On one hand I have heard that Bob liked a dryer and smoother riding design in his mental ideal shapes.
As his proven hulls of the eighties.
I get a hunch that Dick Fisher dreamed and shaped to scale the 21 and in the same token had a firm commitment done or getting done for the 19.
From what I read here, after Dick's moving on to other ventures Bob may have completed the nineteen commitment or orders with his magic touch in designing the models as we know them to be;with smooth cap and gunwale sides..
He came up after a lot of study and research with one of his ideal Hull design giving a dryer and deeper cut riding performance and moved this ideal into production in the eighties.
I will thank all of you for contributing to this small inquiry.
Serge.
jeffs22outrage posted 01-22-2009 04:10 PM ET (US)
Serge here are a couple links some of my postings on what I have gathered on who and how things were designed.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013662.html
Also Here:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016832.html
I would guess that the 19 Outrage began being designed right after the official launch of the 21 ribside. From the get go Bob wanted the original 21 to be a smooth sided design and the ribs were Dick's desire. After production began on that hull there were many problems with trying to get the 21 ribside cap out of the mold. This reinforced Bob's case for a smooth side design. Since the 19 was only released as a smooth sided design I would guess the hull was all Bob's design direction and could have been a styling prototype for the 21 smooth side design. This is only my guess. If I make it down to Miami again this year I will gladly look for Bob again and ask. Or, you could head down there and ask as well. He really is an open, honest, and pleasant guy.
L H G posted 01-22-2009 06:17 PM ET (US)
Being old enough to remember, and as a shopper considering a brand new 19 Outrage in 1973, I remember a Dealer telling me they needed a 19 to fill out the line, since the gap between the 16's and the 21's existed and they felt they were losing this market share. By this time Aquasport and Mako, Whaler's two main center console competitors of the time, both had 19' models. What I don't know is why the sides were raised half way up on the 19. My guess is that the low rubrail design of the ribside 21's was also Fisher's idea, and that Dougherty didn't like it so low. So the 19 was the first Outrage where the sides started coming up. The next all new design, the V-20 Outrage, had the full height sides we all know.
The other interesting thing is that between 1973 and 1979 model years, all Outrages made, except for the 21's, had the red rubrail insert.
Ritzyrags posted 01-22-2009 09:52 PM ET (US)
Ha!
Great news all around.
I thought that this was it for this question.
I really get a kick in realizing that the subject had been explored before these questions came to me.
It just goes on to say a lot about similar ideas and inventions popping up at different times and places but ending up in being very similar indeed.
I had a look at the links and I must say what a lot more stated about Dick's backgrounds.
Jim is also clearly contributing once again.
There is no need to say that I am very pleased by this newest pocket of information.
I will print and study the file some more.
Thank you Jeff and Larry for giving me;
yet a few more pieces of the puzzle; that is depicting a real and most interesting slice of lives; and personal accomplishments in the form of Dick's and Bob's careers.
This is really what this site is all about for me.
Thanks Guys and keep the information flowing.
Serge.

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Author	Topic: Whaler Hull Designers
Ritzyrags	posted 01-19-2009 05:42 PM ET (US) I am looking through the files for the designer of the Classic Outrage 19 mid seventies era. I have come up with Dick Fisher's name but little else. I am trying to search and document about the people involved with this design. The 1980's saw Bob Dougherty as Chief Designer doing a new style of hulls in the Outrage and Revenge models. Knowing where it went from there I am looking for info on the early seventies designs. Any Idea Tom?
L H G	posted 01-19-2009 07:19 PM ET (US) I believe the very first Boston Whaler Outrage, what we now call the 1971 21 "ribside", was designed by Dick Fisher and Bob Dougherty working together. The stern half of the hull bottom is almost identical to the existing 16' hull of the time, while the bow half introduced the beginning of Whaler's V hulls. The boat began some of Whaler's famous innovations: The Reversible Pilot seat The original "Boston Whaler Smirk" The tan canvas lace-on windshield screen The first Igloo cooler seat in front of the console Outrageous looks, unlike any other boat on the market. I have heard that the "ribs" were Fisher's idea, and that Dougherty didn't like them. After this boat, I believe Fisher sold and left the company, keeping a '71 Outrage for his own personal boat. The 1973 smoothside 21 Outrage and 1973 19 Outrage must have been the refinement work Bob Dougherty, with very subtle changes to the bow area of the hull and Smirk. The bottom configuration of the 19 appears to be simply a cut off 21.
Ritzyrags	posted 01-20-2009 12:11 AM ET (US) Well, Thank you Larry for your helpful data. Yes, Isn't it interesting how this specific model has somehow managed to be of unclear and obscured origins, and not much discussed in origins even though there is a reasonably good amount of units still been seen in the eastern hemisphere. Seems like the design project coincided with the departure and arrival of those well known designers working and been stake holders within the company.. As suggested would it be possible that it was a project still on the drawing boards and completed by Bob? I would also be curious to know of how many bare hulls were molded and the respective numbers for Revenge and Outrage units for the early to mid seventies years.
L H G	posted 01-20-2009 01:43 AM ET (US) Chuck Bennett told me there were 1435 19' Outrage/Revenge hulls manufactured from Aug 1972 through Jul 1979. No information on how many were Outrages vs Revenges. My 1975 model is hull #750, manufactured in Oct 1974. There were 722 Ribside 21 hulls made over a 2 year period. My 1971 model is hull #132, manufactured Dec 20, 1970.
Ritzyrags	posted 01-20-2009 03:16 AM ET (US) Again, The question remains, Is there any more data that remains out there about this specific hull design? Well, I guess,I would be impressed to hear from the sources; If they do care to comment. Regards, Serge.
draftsman	posted 01-20-2009 08:20 AM ET (US) I'd say that what you see is what you get, numbers of how many made. If I had to guess, it was all Bob D.s doing. If there is a drawing with a date or any info on it, it is now buried back in a corner of a storeroom along with all the rest of the old drawings, original art, and information. I doubt any of it will ever see the light of day again, unless it is being thrown in the trash... I myself have asked to be allowed to get more of the artwork that I and all of you need several times, only to be turned away. I just don't get it... Well, I do really, but it's my own opinion and I'll keep it to myself. Probably the only way to get that info is to catch Bob at Miami or some other boat show and ask him. Good luck with you quest....
Ritzyrags	posted 01-20-2009 12:41 PM ET (US) Well John, It is unmistakably the voicing of facts and common sense when I am reading of your thoughts. I think that there is so very much left untapped, and unused. I sense that there is an enormous amount of potential energy for all aspects of this boat business still buried in the files. I bet that when you finally get to study the documented and dusty files,you will find plenty of ongoing ideas, developing projects and results that could be seen as useful even by today's standards. Not only that but can you imagine what some of those original drawings and prints would bring at an open auction? For a good cause of course... I can think of a few that have been intruding on me lately.. Serge.
Ritzyrags	posted 01-20-2009 07:43 PM ET (US) Well, It just came to me while tidying up the black top that for some reasons this nineteen foot hull has had a certain amount of mystery attached to it. And this simply in the fact that for some muted reasons; No one has officially taken credit for it..Either by choice or by non revealing clause . With that many units still being used today it is a wonder that no clear claim has somehow been made about this numerous offerings design. On one hand I have heard that Bob liked a dryer and smoother riding design in his mental ideal shapes. As his proven hulls of the eighties. I get a hunch that Dick Fisher dreamed and shaped to scale the 21 and in the same token had a firm commitment done or getting done for the 19. From what I read here, after Dick's moving on to other ventures Bob may have completed the nineteen commitment or orders with his magic touch in designing the models as we know them to be;with smooth cap and gunwale sides.. He came up after a lot of study and research with one of his ideal Hull design giving a dryer and deeper cut riding performance and moved this ideal into production in the eighties. I will thank all of you for contributing to this small inquiry. Serge.
jeffs22outrage	posted 01-22-2009 04:10 PM ET (US) Serge here are a couple links some of my postings on what I have gathered on who and how things were designed. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013662.html Also Here: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016832.html I would guess that the 19 Outrage began being designed right after the official launch of the 21 ribside. From the get go Bob wanted the original 21 to be a smooth sided design and the ribs were Dick's desire. After production began on that hull there were many problems with trying to get the 21 ribside cap out of the mold. This reinforced Bob's case for a smooth side design. Since the 19 was only released as a smooth sided design I would guess the hull was all Bob's design direction and could have been a styling prototype for the 21 smooth side design. This is only my guess. If I make it down to Miami again this year I will gladly look for Bob again and ask. Or, you could head down there and ask as well. He really is an open, honest, and pleasant guy.
L H G	posted 01-22-2009 06:17 PM ET (US) Being old enough to remember, and as a shopper considering a brand new 19 Outrage in 1973, I remember a Dealer telling me they needed a 19 to fill out the line, since the gap between the 16's and the 21's existed and they felt they were losing this market share. By this time Aquasport and Mako, Whaler's two main center console competitors of the time, both had 19' models. What I don't know is why the sides were raised half way up on the 19. My guess is that the low rubrail design of the ribside 21's was also Fisher's idea, and that Dougherty didn't like it so low. So the 19 was the first Outrage where the sides started coming up. The next all new design, the V-20 Outrage, had the full height sides we all know. The other interesting thing is that between 1973 and 1979 model years, all Outrages made, except for the 21's, had the red rubrail insert.
Ritzyrags	posted 01-22-2009 09:52 PM ET (US) Ha! Great news all around. I thought that this was it for this question. I really get a kick in realizing that the subject had been explored before these questions came to me. It just goes on to say a lot about similar ideas and inventions popping up at different times and places but ending up in being very similar indeed. I had a look at the links and I must say what a lot more stated about Dick's backgrounds. Jim is also clearly contributing once again. There is no need to say that I am very pleased by this newest pocket of information. I will print and study the file some more. Thank you Jeff and Larry for giving me; yet a few more pieces of the puzzle; that is depicting a real and most interesting slice of lives; and personal accomplishments in the form of Dick's and Bob's careers. This is really what this site is all about for me. Thanks Guys and keep the information flowing. Serge.