posted 02-14-2009 01:30 PM ET (US)        

On one hand they can be useful for fishing, on the other those mushroom anchors don't really hold the boat that well, and I think it just adds 'clutter' to the boat's lines and gets in the way. There aren't many circumstances where I'd be still fishing and would need an anchor. It would probably be more likely that I might need some kind of mooring line to beach the boat, but not anchor it in the water.

Opinions on if you would keep them or not if it was yours? How difficult would it be to repair the mounting holes?

posted 02-14-2009 02:42 PM ET (US)            

Every year or two, I hear VHF conversation that goes roughly:

Boater: Mayday, Mayday, the motor won't start and we are
drifting towards the rocks.

USCG: Do you have an anchor?

At this point, either there's a long pause while they drop the
hook, or the CG goes out code 3.

posted 02-14-2009 04:56 PM ET (US)            

A galvanized danforth would be a better all around anchor.
A 3.5lb would be good with a minimum of 10 foot of galvanized chain. Don't skimp on the chain, it is what will keep the anchor from pulling out too easy when you want it to hold if needed in an emergency. More chain is better than not enough.

http://www.danforthanchors.com/standard.html

I'll try to keep this short but this is why chain length is important. We were out drift fishing in the summer for flounder and a thunder storm moved in fast, too fast. We couldn't get the motor started and after many attempts the battery was cranking slower and slower. The wind was blowing the boat fast into shallow water and worse than that, trees and stumps.

Out went the anchor to stop our drift and with all 100 foot of rhode out the 4 foot of chain was not enough to hold us. After several attempts it was looking very bad. Hull damage was iminent at least and the waves building to almost 3 feet would have caused big problems and could have capsized the boat. We looked for anything possible to stop our movement and I took every lead fishing weight in our tackle boxes and tied them to the chain with fishing line as fast as possible. I was almost at panic stage with the hidden stumps approaching fast. Out went the anchor and it held this time with maybe 5 lbs of assorted weights.

posted 02-14-2009 06:09 PM ET (US)            

I had a Danforth clone that WOULD NOT set no matter what I did. It almost cost me a boat. I went to watch it work once in diving gear and it skipped and simply WOULD NOT set. No length of chain would make it work. It looked exactly like every other Danforth clone but just would not work. I tossed it overboard.... without a rhode attached.

I use Fortress anchors and they set like crazy... even with minimal chain they set and hold tight. Love them. Have (3) 55's, a 32, and a 23 on my Trawler, and a smaller one (?) size on the Montauk. Costly but well worth it.

Mushroom anchors? They are 'fishing tackle'. not 'anchors'. They will hold you to fish, but not in any sort of emergency.

Dave

posted 02-14-2009 07:16 PM ET (US)            

I agree with everyone else that perhaps the best compromise anchor for a relatively small Whaler skiff used in various locations is a real Danforth with a generous length of chain. On the other hand, how absolutely boring it would be if this were proven to be some sort of absolute truth...what else would we have to argue about over a couple of pale ales at a seaside bar or club?

posted 02-15-2009 05:09 PM ET (US)            

My point exactly: We're not setting permanent moorings in a muddy harbor bottom here. They are essentially worthless for anything else: A cinder block would work as well for fishing.

Dave

posted 02-16-2009 02:04 PM ET (US)            

When overnighting, I keep a lunch hook aboard to hold the stern in place where I want it, or to set anchor for a leisurely lunch or temporary anchor, but more importantly, to deploy as described above in an emergency situation where I absolutely need my main anchor to hold.

...but I have 20 feet of chain rode for my 18' Whaler. The lunch hook is much easier to use for repeated use during the day - typically the big anchor (mine's a 5KG Bruce) is only used at night or if conditions warrant it.

If you have 8-10 feet of quality chain, you should be in good shape.

I agree with others - an anchor is perhaps one of the most important pieces of safety equipment you can have aboard - you need a quality anchor and appropriate chain/rode for your conditions.

posted 02-16-2009 06:26 PM ET (US)            

In case anyone missed it from the above, what our friend is describing is a "Kellett", which is a dead-weight added some distance from the anchor so as to force the rhode from that point to the anchor to lay flatter on the bottom.

With a decent length of chain (10-15 feet or so) the chain-rope intersection is a good spot. But even with 5-10 feet of chain, you can toss a loop of line around the anchor line several feet above the chain and add a kellett there, which has the same effect as a longer piece of chain.

Any dead weight can be used, a mushroom anchor just happens to be a handy thing to handle and if it lays on the bottom it 'may' add some holding power due to it's shape as well.
In a pinch a divers weight belt, or anything else heavy can be used. A second Danforth anchor has been clipped on as a kellett by more than one scared sailor dragging down onto a lee shore.

On EXPLORER, the 42 foot Trawler that I live on, I have (4) 20 pound clump weights of lead with rings cast into them for just this purpose for my storm anchors. Her main rhode is 175 feet of chain backed up with 400 feet of line, but the other two (my storm rhodes) only have 20 feet of chain on each. A pair of those 20 pound kelletts (total 40 pounds for each rhode) added to each one effectively triples the effective chain length in a pinch. Toss out 300 feet of 5/8 line with 20 feet of chain, a 40 pound kellett and a Fortress 55 and you can hold just about anything. Toss out three of those in a circle 500 feet in diameter and it's hurricane holding time. The biggest problem after a storm is getting the damned things back to the surface!

Anchors are something that people swear-by or swear-at, and there's more discussion about them than you can imagine. Danforth, Bruce, Delta, etc... all have their cheering and jeering squads. The Fortresses are what the professionals now seem to think are best. Take a look at any of the Coast Guard 47 foot motor life boats (surf boats). The Coast Guard wanted an anchor that would hold one of these off of the beach in the surf *every time* in an emergency. They tested everything and ended up with Fortress 32's with 20 feet of chain and the balance a nylon rhode. They are expensive, but are the best stuff made. They are light (aluminum) so use the saved weight for more chain and you will never go wrong.

Dave

posted 02-16-2009 07:12 PM ET (US)            

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm

The spreadsheets are great!

--
Moe

posted 02-16-2009 07:19 PM ET (US)            

Thanks to all, especially D2 (Dave squared) in those last two postings above.

posted 02-16-2009 10:56 PM ET (US)            

THanks for the terminology - I couldn't recall it until you posted it. I believe that the technique is described in good detail in my copy of Chapman: Piloting.

By the way to those reading this - The current edition of this periodical is about $50, but you can buy it used on Amazon for less. This is an invaluable resource to ANY boater, and well worth the money spent. My dad gave me his copy (1977 edition) when I was 15 and I pored over that thing for hours on end in the wintertime, waiting for the warm summer breezes of Michigan's Upper Peninsula to welcome me back to the islands where I spent my summers fishing and swimming and just horsing around...with the boats.

Chapman: Piloting is the boater's Bible as far as I'm concerned. Get your copy while the water is still hard up here in the north, and keep it on your desk as a reference guide.

Great section on anchoring. Also a good resource is the WEST ADVISOR.

posted 02-17-2009 11:24 AM ET (US)            

"Chapman: Piloting is the boater's Bible as far as I'm concerned."

Agreed 100%... and even more so: The *older* the copy, the better the seamanship sections (plus lots of photos of cool old boats). I've bought them for a while at the local used boat stuff store (never more than $15.00) and have sought out editions spaced every ten years or so back to the 40's.... The immediate post WW-II ones are *really* interesting. Any of the ones from the 70's forward have all that is required, as long as you don't need to know about modern electronics like GPS, etc. In fact, the navigation areas of the older ones are more detailed than the modern ones.

Any of the editions have great information in them. Buy several and leave them scattered about the house... ;-)

Dave

posted 02-18-2009 04:18 PM ET (US)            

Don't let the weight foul the main anchor; you should ensure that the kellet can only go so far down the rhode before it stops (at least several feet forward of the main anchor). This is why I recommended using a caribiner clipped to the end of your chain rhode - that would hold the weight at a fixed point on the overall scope.

posted 02-18-2009 05:05 PM ET (US)            

Good point, one that I thought was self evident: The goal is not to add more weight at the anchor, it's to change the catenary angle of the rhode so that the anchor gets a more horizontal pull to the bottom. This is THE reason we use chain. A kellett effectively lengthens the chain. Ten feet or so above the anchor is ideal.

HOWEVER sliding the weight down the line portion of the rhode to stop at the line/chain intersection is a workable method BUT and this is a BIG BUT: You ABSOLUTELY need to size the caribiner correctly LONG before it's needed so it does not slide down the chain as well. If in doubt, DO NOT slide it down the line. Raise the anchor and attach the kellett directly.

Well said Dave!

(The Other) Dave

.

posted 02-18-2009 06:55 PM ET (US)            

It is very entertaining to watch fellow boaters come into a bay where I have anchored for the night. You can usually spot the experienced ones just by how they have their crew organized and where they plan to drop the anchor.

The most common cause for the anchor failing to hold, they do not let out enough scope before backing down.

posted 02-18-2009 07:43 PM ET (US)         

Don't ever try to set an anchor on anything less than 3:1 scope. It won't work. In Chapman's it is recommended to use 7:1. At least here in the PNW, that doesn't work very well since there isn't enough space to swing. I normally set mine at 5:1, but sometimes as low as 3:1, and have never had a problem.

Last summer with 40 knots of wind one day I set at 10:1 and didn't drag at all. If I had been spending the night, I would have been up often to check and would have set the anchor alarm on the chartplotter.

One final comment...remember to include the vertical distance from your transducer to your bow when calculating how much scope to let out. If you are in eight feet of water and the distance from the transducer to bow is 3 feet, you'll need to use 11 feet as your depth. Multiplied by 5 this means you'll need 55 feet of rode out. If you don't calculate using this distance you'll end up with just 40 feet of rode out.

posted 02-19-2009 08:55 AM ET (US)            

I'm considering the Fortress 7 to replace the mushroom anchors. It will probably be overkill for my little 15' boat, but it is lightweight and should fit in my bow locker. Other than emergency situations, my typical anchoring scenario will likely be stopping for a picnic on a calm, shallow freshwater lake. I do want to do a little inshore fishing with the boat though in saltwater, so I want to be prepared for conditions that could come up there. As suggested I may hang on to one of the mushrooms to add to the chain in tough conditions.

posted 02-19-2009 02:48 PM ET (US)            

With the Revenge, I can sneak into some really tight shallow places. With the Catalina 30, my anchorage options were more limited. I tried to position myself so I had land as a neighbor on three sides. Still, sometimes someone would try to get in between me and the shore.

posted 03-05-2009 10:39 AM ET (US)            

I also removed the old mushroom anchormate setup, the boat looks much cleaner without it, and it adds just a little room inside without the winches. My current project is filling and patching the screw holes...

posted 03-07-2009 02:34 AM ET (US)            

Hi. You mentioned 6' of chain, but not the size (which determines the weight).

I strongly suggest you double that length. Fortress anchors are great and bite hard, but they do require extra chain or a kellet.