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Author Topic:   Future of Domestic Outboards

L H G posted 08-02-2009 07:57 AM ET (US)
[This topic was introduced into another discussion. It has been separated into its own thread so as not to divert the original discussion.--jimh]
Like autos, in this economy, I keep wondering if the Wisconsin manufacturers of outboards are going to be able keep up with Japanese outboards, and re-gain market share and employment jobs lost to them? Reading [news of new models from HONDA], it seems not. Where is OUR future in outboards?
maverick posted 08-02-2009 08:53 AM ET (US)
Hi Larry - I'm with you on this. Looks like many manufacturing items in this country are all moving overseas, I suppose due in large part to costs (hourly rates and benefits cheaper elsewhere). Either our rates will have to go down significantly, or other rates overseas will have to go up to balance. Kinda like California as a test case, I suppose in one respect - houses out there seem to be many times more than what a similar house costs say, in South Carolina. Sell your place there for a million, buy a place in SC for $250k, bank the $750k. At least that's the way it may have been. Right now, some balancing in California is taking place which looks to me much like the world economy on cars, outboards, and many other things under "correction", I would call it. There is, and will be continued pain for many in this correction, unfortunately, which affects everyone. What can be done ?? short of protectionism (closing the U.S. borders), which is probably not the right thing to do. Tough questions, and even tougher answers, I envision for some time to come. Hope you hang in there, my friend. Mav
R T M posted 08-02-2009 11:15 AM ET (US)
I blame it all on the unions. They were needed at one time, years ago becuase of unfair management, but their time had come and went. They have driven manufacturing out of the USA. Whatever manufacturing is left has been driven to the Right To Work States in the South.
I believe a union carpenter working in NYC now, with retirement and benefits earns over $115 per hour. I know carpentry is a skilled trade not easily or quickly learned, but $115 an hour? Give me a break. Probably the same with the UAW, but that skill can be learned in a few days.
rich/Binkie
fishgutz posted 08-02-2009 11:56 AM ET (US)
Binkie, I'm not sure you're "completely" correct on the unions. The Japanese are always ahead because of great designs and innovations. The designers for Mercury I doubt are in any union. They never made any real innovations in outboards until the Japanese started making them. Same with GM and Ford. I remember looking at trucks in the early 90s and asked about engines with 4 valves per cylinder especially in small trucks. Ford and GM's answer was truck owners don't want that. Boy they sure are popular now. It's that executive thinking that is burying America. A great example is when several GM models of pickups became available with a third door for the extended cabs. The Japanese were already making theirs available with 4. Some idiot executive at GM had to make an conscious decision to not use the 4th door. What a baffoon. Nothing to do with unions.
I really believe it is a true combination of things. Yes, in some cases unions can be blamed.
As a union Firefighter for 29 1/2 years, I know if it weren't for the union, the city would have walked all over us and would never have helped us at all if we got hurt. Heck, the union usually had to get involved most times I got injured. Oh, as an added note, I sure didn't make as much as teachers or UAW workers.
Ritzyrags posted 08-02-2009 03:14 PM ET (US)
The answer to that one may be right under our noses..
Let's take this one in steps.
Mercuries;
Evenrudes;
Johnsons;
Will be seen as premium if not preferred brands of outboards to the TRADITIONALISTS and small crafts owners in North America.
The often welcomed Japanese "push";
With the offerings of outboard motors in the last two decades
Of yet once again;
A good imitation at first;
And a refined and quality product in the end;
Will be seen as to challenge and compete for the sales of this product...To Us.
If ever there was brand loyalty involved;
I will suggest that this is the right site , the right topic and the right thread.
We may have a dozen of options for the choice of our favorite water craft;
THE choice will be Boston Whalers..
The same will be seen with outboards.
Brand names as political parties will usually be taken as a commitment for years and sometimes for a lifetime.
If the demand for a North American made outboard product is strong and consistent;
By expertly managing shrewd sale strategies and very importantly;
AN EXCEPTIONAL QUALITY AND ATTRACTIVE PRODUCT AFFORD ABLY PRICED
I think that the general public will favorably respond and keep the outboard manufacturers from Wisconsin in business.
It may be time to clean the cob webs;
Open the doors and bring in fresh air.
Revamp and innovate the products.
Is there any wonder as to why the Suzuky brand has been so widely sought and bought lately???
A great product for a great price.
I think that there is no doubt;
That it used to be a North American saying of not so long ago..
Do I have a second to the motion?
R T M posted 08-02-2009 03:44 PM ET (US)
ritzy, Have you ever considered becoming a speechwriter for Sarah Palin? ;))
rich/Binkie
number9 posted 08-02-2009 04:23 PM ET (US)
Executive corporate salaries, bonuses, stock options, wasting money, forgetting/ignoring company's original passion and mission help to contribute to many failures. Probably much more so than unions or economic downturns.
R T M posted 08-02-2009 08:23 PM ET (US)
number9, I guess what your saying is Capitalism is not working. What other form of government should we try?
rich/Binkie
fishgutz posted 08-02-2009 08:45 PM ET (US)
Dictatorship, with me as the dictator. Emphasis on the tator (tater).
R T M posted 08-02-2009 09:17 PM ET (US)
You know a benevolent dictator is not a such a bad idea. Then there are no worries about the radical right or the liberal left, providing the dictator doesn`t come from the two extremes. I think the country of Franz has this kind of government. Seems to work for them.
For those who know history, the public wanted George Washington to be appointed King. Remember a capitalist Democracy had never been tried at that time. It worked well for for 225 years until the Radical Right gained control. Now we`re back to square one.
rich/Binkie
Jefecinco posted 08-03-2009 08:48 AM ET (US)
ritzy,
I've enjoyed your posting this AM. Don't take offense but is there something in your e-mail program that causes so many hard returns after using a semicolon or a .. (period period?) or is it a style of presentation you prefer?
At first I thought there may have been a poetic quality but after reading it over decided that was not the case.
Back to the topic.
A union organized shop does not necessarily mean that innovation is stifled. A suggestion program with a reward mechanism can provide some excellent results. When working as a contractor evaluator on an Army contract with ATT we got many very useful ideas from hourly wage employees who were paid for ideas chosen for implementation. In this particular environment management and union worked more as partners than as adversaries.
Butch

Tohsgib posted 08-03-2009 11:16 AM ET (US)
Let them all die...they deserve it.
number9 posted 08-03-2009 12:17 PM ET (US)
R T M,
"number9, I guess what your saying is Capitalism is not working. What other form of government should we try?"
Nope didn't say that and don't advocate trying any other form of economics or government which by the way are not the same.
I've never been a member of a labor union but know enough not to blame our lame at the present economy on them. Obviously you have no use for them and like to use extreme examples while bashing an American institution.
I do believe that corporate downsizing, production cuts, wage cuts, benefit reductions, layoffs and what ever else required to keep a company viable are sometimes necessary. All this starts at the bottom and rarely do the executives take any responsibility for their mistakes and lack of planning for downturns in the economy. Was spending $100 million on a Verado development program a good corporate decision? Who know?
Ritzyrags posted 08-03-2009 12:42 PM ET (US)
Like I did say;
The people with their Brand Loyalties or the lack of them;
Will decide if those Wisconsin established manufacturers will be able to do business as usual;
Or close their plants and get their products made in China.
It has been seen in the past that in many aspects of industries;
A lot of products were made abroad and brought into the country mainly complete and assembled;
To be finalized with label and to be offered to the public as North American made..
Doesn't help any of us for employment or income;
But the outboard may be priced less since the overhead will be somehow less then it would have been if made here.
I personally know that if one's wants to stay in business today;
Some major adjustments will be made.
It is really all up to Us..
Or is it really?
Nice meeting you Jefe
Always there to please you.
And as far as Mz Palin is concerned;
Is she really half that bad?
She has gotten herself into an area of employment that is rather cut throat and decided that she had enough.
As a bachelor I think that I would have taken her fishing.
I even saw Bruce Willis imitating her on the Jay Leno Show one evening.
She reminds me of Julia Louis-Dreyfus;
The well know heiress and funny lady on Seinfeld.
http://www.tv.com/julia-louis-dreyfus/person/5006/viewer.html?ii=79& grti=104&gri=5006&flag=&tag=main;
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31767181#31767181
And on the positive side;
An attractive young lady;
If I may say so.
Good Luck with her career.
R T M posted 08-03-2009 12:48 PM ET (US)
number9
your comment(I do believe that corporate downsizing, production cuts, wage cuts, benefit reductions, layoffs and what ever else required to keep a company viable are sometimes necessary)
I agree, but this form of thinking does not sit well with labor unions. You are right, I am not pro union, and in modern times, we can get along fine without them. Siting what a union carpenter makes in NYC is not an extreme example but the norm. I am not bashing any union, and they are not American institutions. Actually it is a form of Socialism and goes against free enterprise.
Back in 1960, I was an apprentice in the tile layers union in NYC. I was just out of the service and just married, and needed a good paying job. My Dad who was an architect in NYC knew the owner of a big ceramic tile contracting company, and he got me a 6 month permit in the tile layers union. They put me to work sometimes as a helper, but mostly grouting tile. The union requirements stated that we had to grout 5 bathrooms per day. I started out slowly doing maybe three a day and buy the end of the first week, I was able to grout 5 per day, the union quota. After a month, I could do 4 in the morning, eat lunch, do 1 more, and go home buy 2pm, and get paid till 4:30. Great and easy job while it lasted, exactly 6 months to the day I got laid off because my permit had run out, and it was a father and son union, and I didn`t have any relatives who were members. This is not free enterprise, we were paid well, to not work very hard, and only special people(relatives), were allowed to join. I later joined the carpenters union in NY, but abandoned it when I moved to Florida. The thing that griped me about that union, was every paycheck a small amount was held back, and was used as a donation for the Democratic Party. I voted Republican at the time.
I would think anyone who thinks we are headed for Socialism, would not be pro-union, but many people don`t know whats going on anyway, and just go along with what their favorite newsreader tell them.
rich/Binkie
fourdfish posted 08-03-2009 01:51 PM ET (US)
Just to be clear here. Larry was refering to Mercury outboards
in Wisconsin. The other Wisconsin outboard company BRP is doing just fine with domestic production. They have said they
intend to stay with the Wisconsin plant.
number9 posted 08-03-2009 02:29 PM ET (US)
Know an old fart, still flys his Bonanza at his close to 80 years old, retired as a 747 captain for United. He told me a story about being at a social gathering and being asked by a surgeon why a captain makes more money than he did.
Replied if you make a mistake you only kill one person.
Not much relating to the topic except he was a union member and it's a good story.
Backfire posted 08-04-2009 11:15 PM ET (US)
As far as who make what where. Merc's what, 25 hp and down
are made overseas. BRP has a new plant in China. They also have a large contract with India to supply o/bs to that market. I would guess more engines might stay in that market
than are shipped back to the USA. Make 'um where you sell 'um, more or less. Mercury in talks to either move the
Wisconsin operation to Stillwater, OK, or move Stillwater to
Wisconsin. Large MerCruiser plant in Stillwater that has a lot of extra room. One town is going to take hit soon.
Backfire
R T M posted 08-05-2009 07:53 AM ET (US)
As far as who make what where. Merc's what, 25 hp and down
are made overseas.
Not quite right. Mercurys outboards, 30hp and down are re-badged Tohatsus, and are imported from Japan, Big difference.
rich/Binkie
elaelap posted 08-05-2009 12:36 PM ET (US)
Future of domestic outboards? Change or die. The internal combustion motor is in its death throes, folks. It's served us well (for the most part) for a hundred years or so, but its day is done. Whichever company--whichever nation--first comes up with a radical new method of non-carbon-based transportation energy will dominate this strange world of ours for a century. Now where is that good ol' Amurican drive, competitiveness, and ingenuity which we were all propagandized about in grade school? Where's our 21st century Henry Ford, our new Thomas Edison?
Tony
One stop-gap on the way to a radically new outboard energy design might be a light, clean diesel motor. First company that pulls this off would have a huge immediate market.
R T M posted 08-05-2009 01:00 PM ET (US)
I agree Tony, but I don`t thinks the change will come with diesel power. I believe at some point all transportation vehicles will be electric powered. Electric motors are a no brainer, and some are very powerful. The problem is battery technology. The batteries need to be smaller, and more powerful, and cheaper, I don`t know how much research is being done at this time, but the oil companies are fighting it. For a good insite, rent the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car."
Electric outboards are possible and homemade ones are here now. Check out this link on electric outboard racing In Seattle.
http://www.seattleoutboard.org/electric.html
rich/Binkie
Tohsgib posted 08-05-2009 01:05 PM ET (US)
Rich, Batteries have always plagued the electric car. Electric cras outsold gas in the early days. People moving farther away made the gas engine dominate. Once somebody makes a decent battery or finds a new surce to store energy, they will become popular again. I don't remember the USS Enterprise crew reminding Capt. Kirk that he needs to stop at Sunoco do you?
TransAm posted 08-05-2009 01:21 PM ET (US)
I think the flux-capacitor will soon emerge as a viable propulsion system. Then we'll move on to dilithium crystals. I'm gonna start looking for a Delorian in the clunker trade-in lots.
R T M posted 08-05-2009 01:44 PM ET (US)
TA, Do you want to convert a Delorian to electric? Sounds like a cool idea. Last summer I toyed with the idea of converting a VW Rabbit convertible to electric. Even bought a book on how to do it. Its expensive, about 7K. Then gas came down. Its a game.
rich/Binkie
number9 posted 08-05-2009 02:52 PM ET (US)
To clear up where are 60hp and below OB motors made.
From 2007 Annual Report, "Mercury Marine manufactures 40, 50 and 60 horsepower four-stroke outboard engines in a facility in China, and, in a joint venture with its partner, Tohatsu Corporation, produces smaller outboard engines in Japan.
Occasionally here some reply saying that range of Merc still uses a Yamaha block. Does anyone know if the current Mercs use a newly designed engine or a China clone Yamaha? The 50-60 seemed to have gained about 10 lbs. of weight in the process.

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Author	Topic: Future of Domestic Outboards
L H G	posted 08-02-2009 07:57 AM ET (US) [This topic was introduced into another discussion. It has been separated into its own thread so as not to divert the original discussion.--jimh] Like autos, in this economy, I keep wondering if the Wisconsin manufacturers of outboards are going to be able keep up with Japanese outboards, and re-gain market share and employment jobs lost to them? Reading [news of new models from HONDA], it seems not. Where is OUR future in outboards?
maverick	posted 08-02-2009 08:53 AM ET (US) Hi Larry - I'm with you on this. Looks like many manufacturing items in this country are all moving overseas, I suppose due in large part to costs (hourly rates and benefits cheaper elsewhere). Either our rates will have to go down significantly, or other rates overseas will have to go up to balance. Kinda like California as a test case, I suppose in one respect - houses out there seem to be many times more than what a similar house costs say, in South Carolina. Sell your place there for a million, buy a place in SC for $250k, bank the $750k. At least that's the way it may have been. Right now, some balancing in California is taking place which looks to me much like the world economy on cars, outboards, and many other things under "correction", I would call it. There is, and will be continued pain for many in this correction, unfortunately, which affects everyone. What can be done ?? short of protectionism (closing the U.S. borders), which is probably not the right thing to do. Tough questions, and even tougher answers, I envision for some time to come. Hope you hang in there, my friend. Mav
R T M	posted 08-02-2009 11:15 AM ET (US) I blame it all on the unions. They were needed at one time, years ago becuase of unfair management, but their time had come and went. They have driven manufacturing out of the USA. Whatever manufacturing is left has been driven to the Right To Work States in the South. I believe a union carpenter working in NYC now, with retirement and benefits earns over $115 per hour. I know carpentry is a skilled trade not easily or quickly learned, but $115 an hour? Give me a break. Probably the same with the UAW, but that skill can be learned in a few days. rich/Binkie
fishgutz	posted 08-02-2009 11:56 AM ET (US) Binkie, I'm not sure you're "completely" correct on the unions. The Japanese are always ahead because of great designs and innovations. The designers for Mercury I doubt are in any union. They never made any real innovations in outboards until the Japanese started making them. Same with GM and Ford. I remember looking at trucks in the early 90s and asked about engines with 4 valves per cylinder especially in small trucks. Ford and GM's answer was truck owners don't want that. Boy they sure are popular now. It's that executive thinking that is burying America. A great example is when several GM models of pickups became available with a third door for the extended cabs. The Japanese were already making theirs available with 4. Some idiot executive at GM had to make an conscious decision to not use the 4th door. What a baffoon. Nothing to do with unions. I really believe it is a true combination of things. Yes, in some cases unions can be blamed. As a union Firefighter for 29 1/2 years, I know if it weren't for the union, the city would have walked all over us and would never have helped us at all if we got hurt. Heck, the union usually had to get involved most times I got injured. Oh, as an added note, I sure didn't make as much as teachers or UAW workers.
Ritzyrags	posted 08-02-2009 03:14 PM ET (US) The answer to that one may be right under our noses.. Let's take this one in steps. Mercuries; Evenrudes; Johnsons; Will be seen as premium if not preferred brands of outboards to the TRADITIONALISTS and small crafts owners in North America. The often welcomed Japanese "push"; With the offerings of outboard motors in the last two decades Of yet once again; A good imitation at first; And a refined and quality product in the end; Will be seen as to challenge and compete for the sales of this product...To Us. If ever there was brand loyalty involved; I will suggest that this is the right site , the right topic and the right thread. We may have a dozen of options for the choice of our favorite water craft; THE choice will be Boston Whalers.. The same will be seen with outboards. Brand names as political parties will usually be taken as a commitment for years and sometimes for a lifetime. If the demand for a North American made outboard product is strong and consistent; By expertly managing shrewd sale strategies and very importantly; AN EXCEPTIONAL QUALITY AND ATTRACTIVE PRODUCT AFFORD ABLY PRICED I think that the general public will favorably respond and keep the outboard manufacturers from Wisconsin in business. It may be time to clean the cob webs; Open the doors and bring in fresh air. Revamp and innovate the products. Is there any wonder as to why the Suzuky brand has been so widely sought and bought lately??? A great product for a great price. I think that there is no doubt; That it used to be a North American saying of not so long ago.. Do I have a second to the motion?
R T M	posted 08-02-2009 03:44 PM ET (US) ritzy, Have you ever considered becoming a speechwriter for Sarah Palin? ;)) rich/Binkie
number9	posted 08-02-2009 04:23 PM ET (US) Executive corporate salaries, bonuses, stock options, wasting money, forgetting/ignoring company's original passion and mission help to contribute to many failures. Probably much more so than unions or economic downturns.
R T M	posted 08-02-2009 08:23 PM ET (US) number9, I guess what your saying is Capitalism is not working. What other form of government should we try? rich/Binkie
fishgutz	posted 08-02-2009 08:45 PM ET (US) Dictatorship, with me as the dictator. Emphasis on the tator (tater).
R T M	posted 08-02-2009 09:17 PM ET (US) You know a benevolent dictator is not a such a bad idea. Then there are no worries about the radical right or the liberal left, providing the dictator doesn`t come from the two extremes. I think the country of Franz has this kind of government. Seems to work for them. For those who know history, the public wanted George Washington to be appointed King. Remember a capitalist Democracy had never been tried at that time. It worked well for for 225 years until the Radical Right gained control. Now we`re back to square one. rich/Binkie
Jefecinco	posted 08-03-2009 08:48 AM ET (US) ritzy, I've enjoyed your posting this AM. Don't take offense but is there something in your e-mail program that causes so many hard returns after using a semicolon or a .. (period period?) or is it a style of presentation you prefer? At first I thought there may have been a poetic quality but after reading it over decided that was not the case. Back to the topic. A union organized shop does not necessarily mean that innovation is stifled. A suggestion program with a reward mechanism can provide some excellent results. When working as a contractor evaluator on an Army contract with ATT we got many very useful ideas from hourly wage employees who were paid for ideas chosen for implementation. In this particular environment management and union worked more as partners than as adversaries. Butch
Tohsgib	posted 08-03-2009 11:16 AM ET (US) Let them all die...they deserve it.
number9	posted 08-03-2009 12:17 PM ET (US) R T M, "number9, I guess what your saying is Capitalism is not working. What other form of government should we try?" Nope didn't say that and don't advocate trying any other form of economics or government which by the way are not the same. I've never been a member of a labor union but know enough not to blame our lame at the present economy on them. Obviously you have no use for them and like to use extreme examples while bashing an American institution. I do believe that corporate downsizing, production cuts, wage cuts, benefit reductions, layoffs and what ever else required to keep a company viable are sometimes necessary. All this starts at the bottom and rarely do the executives take any responsibility for their mistakes and lack of planning for downturns in the economy. Was spending $100 million on a Verado development program a good corporate decision? Who know?
Ritzyrags	posted 08-03-2009 12:42 PM ET (US) Like I did say; The people with their Brand Loyalties or the lack of them; Will decide if those Wisconsin established manufacturers will be able to do business as usual; Or close their plants and get their products made in China. It has been seen in the past that in many aspects of industries; A lot of products were made abroad and brought into the country mainly complete and assembled; To be finalized with label and to be offered to the public as North American made.. Doesn't help any of us for employment or income; But the outboard may be priced less since the overhead will be somehow less then it would have been if made here. I personally know that if one's wants to stay in business today; Some major adjustments will be made. It is really all up to Us.. Or is it really? Nice meeting you Jefe Always there to please you. And as far as Mz Palin is concerned; Is she really half that bad? She has gotten herself into an area of employment that is rather cut throat and decided that she had enough. As a bachelor I think that I would have taken her fishing. I even saw Bruce Willis imitating her on the Jay Leno Show one evening. She reminds me of Julia Louis-Dreyfus; The well know heiress and funny lady on Seinfeld. http://www.tv.com/julia-louis-dreyfus/person/5006/viewer.html?ii=79& grti=104&gri=5006&flag=&tag=main; http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31767181#31767181 And on the positive side; An attractive young lady; If I may say so. Good Luck with her career.
R T M	posted 08-03-2009 12:48 PM ET (US) number9 your comment(I do believe that corporate downsizing, production cuts, wage cuts, benefit reductions, layoffs and what ever else required to keep a company viable are sometimes necessary) I agree, but this form of thinking does not sit well with labor unions. You are right, I am not pro union, and in modern times, we can get along fine without them. Siting what a union carpenter makes in NYC is not an extreme example but the norm. I am not bashing any union, and they are not American institutions. Actually it is a form of Socialism and goes against free enterprise. Back in 1960, I was an apprentice in the tile layers union in NYC. I was just out of the service and just married, and needed a good paying job. My Dad who was an architect in NYC knew the owner of a big ceramic tile contracting company, and he got me a 6 month permit in the tile layers union. They put me to work sometimes as a helper, but mostly grouting tile. The union requirements stated that we had to grout 5 bathrooms per day. I started out slowly doing maybe three a day and buy the end of the first week, I was able to grout 5 per day, the union quota. After a month, I could do 4 in the morning, eat lunch, do 1 more, and go home buy 2pm, and get paid till 4:30. Great and easy job while it lasted, exactly 6 months to the day I got laid off because my permit had run out, and it was a father and son union, and I didn`t have any relatives who were members. This is not free enterprise, we were paid well, to not work very hard, and only special people(relatives), were allowed to join. I later joined the carpenters union in NY, but abandoned it when I moved to Florida. The thing that griped me about that union, was every paycheck a small amount was held back, and was used as a donation for the Democratic Party. I voted Republican at the time. I would think anyone who thinks we are headed for Socialism, would not be pro-union, but many people don`t know whats going on anyway, and just go along with what their favorite newsreader tell them. rich/Binkie
fourdfish	posted 08-03-2009 01:51 PM ET (US) Just to be clear here. Larry was refering to Mercury outboards in Wisconsin. The other Wisconsin outboard company BRP is doing just fine with domestic production. They have said they intend to stay with the Wisconsin plant.
number9	posted 08-03-2009 02:29 PM ET (US) Know an old fart, still flys his Bonanza at his close to 80 years old, retired as a 747 captain for United. He told me a story about being at a social gathering and being asked by a surgeon why a captain makes more money than he did. Replied if you make a mistake you only kill one person. Not much relating to the topic except he was a union member and it's a good story.
Backfire	posted 08-04-2009 11:15 PM ET (US) As far as who make what where. Merc's what, 25 hp and down are made overseas. BRP has a new plant in China. They also have a large contract with India to supply o/bs to that market. I would guess more engines might stay in that market than are shipped back to the USA. Make 'um where you sell 'um, more or less. Mercury in talks to either move the Wisconsin operation to Stillwater, OK, or move Stillwater to Wisconsin. Large MerCruiser plant in Stillwater that has a lot of extra room. One town is going to take hit soon. Backfire
R T M	posted 08-05-2009 07:53 AM ET (US) As far as who make what where. Merc's what, 25 hp and down are made overseas. Not quite right. Mercurys outboards, 30hp and down are re-badged Tohatsus, and are imported from Japan, Big difference. rich/Binkie
elaelap	posted 08-05-2009 12:36 PM ET (US) Future of domestic outboards? Change or die. The internal combustion motor is in its death throes, folks. It's served us well (for the most part) for a hundred years or so, but its day is done. Whichever company--whichever nation--first comes up with a radical new method of non-carbon-based transportation energy will dominate this strange world of ours for a century. Now where is that good ol' Amurican drive, competitiveness, and ingenuity which we were all propagandized about in grade school? Where's our 21st century Henry Ford, our new Thomas Edison? Tony One stop-gap on the way to a radically new outboard energy design might be a light, clean diesel motor. First company that pulls this off would have a huge immediate market.
R T M	posted 08-05-2009 01:00 PM ET (US) I agree Tony, but I don`t thinks the change will come with diesel power. I believe at some point all transportation vehicles will be electric powered. Electric motors are a no brainer, and some are very powerful. The problem is battery technology. The batteries need to be smaller, and more powerful, and cheaper, I don`t know how much research is being done at this time, but the oil companies are fighting it. For a good insite, rent the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car." Electric outboards are possible and homemade ones are here now. Check out this link on electric outboard racing In Seattle. http://www.seattleoutboard.org/electric.html rich/Binkie
Tohsgib	posted 08-05-2009 01:05 PM ET (US) Rich, Batteries have always plagued the electric car. Electric cras outsold gas in the early days. People moving farther away made the gas engine dominate. Once somebody makes a decent battery or finds a new surce to store energy, they will become popular again. I don't remember the USS Enterprise crew reminding Capt. Kirk that he needs to stop at Sunoco do you?
TransAm	posted 08-05-2009 01:21 PM ET (US) I think the flux-capacitor will soon emerge as a viable propulsion system. Then we'll move on to dilithium crystals. I'm gonna start looking for a Delorian in the clunker trade-in lots.
R T M	posted 08-05-2009 01:44 PM ET (US) TA, Do you want to convert a Delorian to electric? Sounds like a cool idea. Last summer I toyed with the idea of converting a VW Rabbit convertible to electric. Even bought a book on how to do it. Its expensive, about 7K. Then gas came down. Its a game. rich/Binkie
number9	posted 08-05-2009 02:52 PM ET (US) To clear up where are 60hp and below OB motors made. From 2007 Annual Report, "Mercury Marine manufactures 40, 50 and 60 horsepower four-stroke outboard engines in a facility in China, and, in a joint venture with its partner, Tohatsu Corporation, produces smaller outboard engines in Japan. Occasionally here some reply saying that range of Merc still uses a Yamaha block. Does anyone know if the current Mercs use a newly designed engine or a China clone Yamaha? The 50-60 seemed to have gained about 10 lbs. of weight in the process.