22' Outrage and glavanized tandem axle trailer weight

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  22' Outrage and glavanized tandem axle trailer weight

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   22' Outrage and glavanized tandem axle trailer weight

Buckda posted 11-13-2009 09:22 AM ET (US)
Not estimates. Has anybody actually weighed their boat/trailer combo on a certified scale? Can you share your numbers?
I'm working with a fried and trying to talk him out of considering towing a 22' Outrage with T-Top on tandem galv. trailer rig across the country with a mid-sized V-6 Japanese luxury SUV.

Peter posted 11-13-2009 09:46 AM ET (US)
The motor and transmission of the SUV will be "toast" after towing that across country.
cdnwhaler posted 11-13-2009 09:51 AM ET (US)
1984 Outrage 22 with 1990 225 Evinrude and 9.9 Evinrude = 4,340 lb. including fuel and some gear.
Add on a 1993 6 cyl Grand Cherokee = GVW 8740 lb.
The Jeep was rated to 5,000 lb. towing if a like hitch was used.
Buy a weight distribution hitch called Equalizer made in Provo Utah.
http://www.equalizerhitch.com
cdnwhaler posted 11-13-2009 09:56 AM ET (US)

This is the rig I drove 14 - 15 hours non-stop from Copper Harbor MI to Toronto in 2005 without incident.

Buckda posted 11-13-2009 09:58 AM ET (US)
The SUV is rated at 4,500 max lbs tow. I don't know what the GCVWR is, but that is why I'm very interested to know ACTUAL weights of the 22' Outrage on a tandem axle galvanized trailer.
For instance, I estimated my trailer and boat at 3,500 lbs, but when I actually weighed it, I came in at 4,300 lbs.
That's for an 18' Outrage, full fuel, twin 90 HP motors and full of gear/ice for fishing.
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 10:01 AM ET (US)
Is the '93 Jeep a body-on-frame construction or unibody? The Japanese luxury SUV is a unibody. It makes 300 HP, so there's no doubt that it can move the weight, but I'm more concerned about the 'tail wagging the dog' factor.
Jeff posted 11-13-2009 10:03 AM ET (US)
I know the 22 guardian on the trailer with full fuel and no gear comes in at 7640#. The CPD trailer along accounts for 2000# of that.
Jefecinco posted 11-13-2009 10:08 AM ET (US)
I read some years ago that load equalizing hitches were not recommended for trailers with surge brakes. Electrical brake trailers such as seen on RVs and utility trailers are fine for these hitches. I believe just about all frame mounted hitches are weight distributing hitches.
This post is not to dispute Cdnwhaler's recommendation. It is more in the nature of an aside. I cannot even provide a cite for my comment. I possibly read this in Chapmans???
I do recommend that before using a load equalizing hitch for a boat trailer with surge brakes it could be useful to do a little research.
Butch
cdnwhaler posted 11-13-2009 10:10 AM ET (US)
Buy the Equalizer hitch and there will little or no wagging. Walt Steffans did the research, I only bought it and it worked great. Solved all my worries at the time.
The weight numbers I gave are from a CAT scale. But Dave, don't forget the amount of crap I used to carry on that boat to feed and keep me, 2 teenagers and a Lab.
And no it didn't like hills too much.
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 10:13 AM ET (US)
Peter and Jeff - thanks for the real-world weights. I find this very interesting - especially the wide dispersal in apparent weight between the Guardian hull and the standard Outrage. I know for a fact that my father's Guardian broke the springs on my 2002 Explorer when I towed it a very short distance across town to the ramp. I heard them pop, and later confirmed it with the purchase of new rear shocks. I don't know the weight of that rig, but the Explorer was rated for 3,500 lbs.
cdnwhaler posted 11-13-2009 10:15 AM ET (US)
Jefecinco,
You are exactly correct. But...
Walt Steffans made a hitch that worked with surge brakes and he had a 25 Revenge and is why I was introduced to him.
If you read the literature on the Equalizer website it's the only hitch made that works with surge brakes. Very unique...and expensive as I recall.
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 10:21 AM ET (US)
Yes, I believe that the smaller unit requires a $750 investment.
...but it is cheaper than a new vehicle.
Wasatch Whaler posted 11-13-2009 10:42 AM ET (US)
Dave,
Does your friend's "Japanese luxury SUV" tow vehicle have the factory installed towing package or just an aftermarket hitch?
The reason I ask is the factory towing package would likely include a larger transmission cooler. The biggest enemy of automatic transmissions is heat.
I think you are correct about the potential "tail wagging the dog" effect. Towing a 22' boat with a mid-sized vehicle in strong cross winds would not be my idea of fun.
Lastly, (IMHO) the factory tow ratings on some vehicles are completely bogus. For example, my "daily driver" is a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with the 4.7L V-8 and factory tow package. It is "rated" to tow 6,500 lbs and has a GCVWR of 11,000 lbs.
There is no way I would consider approaching those limits.
newt posted 11-13-2009 10:53 AM ET (US)
I pulled a V20 Revenge home with a Jeep Cherokee rated at 5000 lbs once. Scared the crap out of me. I wouldn't even think of towing a 22 footer around long distance with that rig.
cdnwhaler posted 11-13-2009 10:54 AM ET (US)
I agree. I'm recently researching a new vehicle and the crossover VW Touareg with a 3.6 liter 6 cyl is rated to tow 7,719 lb. with a curb weight of 5,000 lb.
Ya sure. Now we're talking some good tail wagging when you max this out.
But it's got 24 valves the salesman says... :)
Peter posted 11-13-2009 10:59 AM ET (US)
"...the factory tow ratings on some vehicles are completely bogus."
Exactly. My 1992 Nissan Pathfinder had a 3500 lb tow rating. That thing had squirrley handling towing my first Outrage 18 and I ended up blowing the exhaust manifolds off the engine towing it 20 miles down the road to the dealer for engine service because the engine exhaust got so hot. I dumped that SUV in favor of a Ford Explorer V8 with a 6500 lbs tow rating and never looked back.
I remember being a passenger in a car years ago after my Pathfinder episode looking over to my right to see a pickup truck towing an RV trailer that we were passing. There was little doubt that the pickup truck was at its towing limit. From the low vantage point I could see the exhaust manifold through the space above the tire in the front wheel well. The manifold was glowing red.
andygere posted 11-13-2009 11:02 AM ET (US)
I used to tow my Outrage 22 Cuddy (on a Galv. EZ Loader) with a '99 Grand Cherokee with 4.7 L V8 and factory Class IV tow package. Power was just OK, not enough in the mountains. Braking was fine since the trailer had brakes on all 4 wheels. The big problem was the tongue weight. The Jeep just couldn't handle it, and the back of the Cherokee sagged more than I liked when we were loaded up for a trip. With just me and the boat, it wasn't as bad. The Jeep was a very nice rig and I really liked driving it, but I've since replaced it with a 2004 Suburban 2500, which is much better suited for towing my Whaler.
My experience with luxury SUVs is that the suspension is just not stiff enough to carry a lot of tongue weight. If your friend insists on doing the tow, suggest that he level off the ride by installing some air bags on the rear springs. Wasatch is right on target with his analysis of the factory tow ratings: they are very optimistic.
Also, I'm dubious of the 300 h.p. claim. The V6 probably makes that at 5000 rpms, but will it have enough low end torque to move that big boat? My Jeep went like a scalded cat without the boat behind it, but struggled going up grades with the boat behind it.
themclos posted 11-13-2009 11:11 AM ET (US)
Dave,
Sorry, I have not yet weighed my 22 Outrage Cuddy and tandem galvanized trailer with surge brakes on both axles. The trailer is a Load-Rite. I do not have the trailer model and its weight is unavailable to me at the moment.
I can tell you, I tow this with a 2008 Dodge Durango with the 5.7L Hemi engine and a 3.55 axle ratio. The Durango has a towing capacity of 7200 pounds with this configuration.
It tows fine. I can feel it back there, but I have never felt the boat/trailer was in control.
There is no way my 6 cylinder Ford Explorer could have handled this safely.
Dan
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 11:21 AM ET (US)
The tow vehicle does have the factory tow package with the transmission cooler.
Thank you for the feedback. I'd still like to see a few more actual weights. I don't know what type of trailer this boat has - I do know it is galvanized box/tube construction and tandem axle, so I'm thinking it's pretty heavy. My channel steel galvanized tandem axle trailer under my 18' Outrage is 800+ lbs.
prj posted 11-13-2009 11:32 AM ET (US)
Do you know which "mid-sized V-6 Japanese Luxury SUV" is being considered here? I'm not certain where the cutoff between "mid-sized" and full-sized occurs.
Were it a newer V6 Toyota 4Runner, I'd consider that tow possible. If its a V6 Toyota Highlander, the obvious answer is no way.
I'm surprised so many have chimed in with absolute knowledge of the unknown vehicle's capabilities. I'm not surprised that people are throwing out the typical responses like "My BLANK can tow it just fine."
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 11:52 AM ET (US)
It is an Acura MDX.
JMARTIN posted 11-13-2009 11:59 AM ET (US)
I would be concerned about stopping also. My 22 Revenge on a two axle galvanized trailer with surge brakes is not the most predictable thing when sudden brake application is needed.
John
jechura posted 11-13-2009 12:26 PM ET (US)
Certified C.A.T.------Trailer 1,300 # ---- Boat 3,100 # for a total of 4,400 #
I know that Peter would have never made that Isle Royale trip with his boys in the Jeep.
Peter posted 11-13-2009 12:36 PM ET (US)
A new Acura MDX has a towing capacity of 5000 lbs. There is no industry standard for tow capacity ratings so I would be very leary of the rating for a 3.7L V6. Towing a few miles down to the local boat ramp on flat road MIGHT be OK, but across country, absolutely no way.
For a cross country tow, I'd want a Surburban 2500 with a big V8 and a long wheelbase or equivalent like Andy has.
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 12:56 PM ET (US)
This is a 2005 vehicle. I don't know the mileage, but the tow rating is 4500 lbs.
The GCVWR is 9584 lbs. The Curb weight is about 4450 lbs. The GVWR is 5787.
Based on that data and the approximate 4,500 lb estimate for the boat/trailer combination...I think he's over on the GVWR (with a 450 lb tongue weight) and just slightly over (by a few hundred pounds) on the GCVWR.
I'm still pretty surprised that my rig, which is 4 feet shorter and has a smaller trailer is certified at a very similar wet weight.
Being the conservative person that I am, I still think that this is too much boat/trailer for safe long distance highway towing. In fact, I know that the 22' Outrage/Revenge is generally "all" that a 1500 series American truck "wants" for a long distance tow.
jimh posted 11-13-2009 01:18 PM ET (US)
Twice I have weighed by Boston Whaler 22-footer on a certified scale. Most recently I gave a detailed analysis of the weights I deduced in
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016667.html
I suppose my REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive may weigh more than a stock OUTRAGE 22, however the added weight of a T-Top should make up some of the difference.
The combined weight of my boat and trailer was 5,600-lbs. I tow with a vehicle that has 132-inch-long wheelbase and a 7,000-lbs tow rating. I would not consider it reasonable to downsize my tow vehicle, either in wheelbase length or in towing capacity, and, quite the opposite, I would be more likely to increase the towing capacity were I to get a new vehicle.
PATXBill posted 11-13-2009 02:55 PM ET (US)
My 1984 Outrage 22 with full 129 fuel tank, 1987 225 Evinrude V6, two batteries, 25 lbs of anchor and chain and Magnum galvanized trailer weighed 5400 pounds on certified scales.
andygere posted 11-13-2009 04:14 PM ET (US)

quote:
It makes 300 HP
Edmunds says that a 2005 Acura MDX makes 265 h.p. at 5800 rpm and 253 lb-ft of torque at 3500 rpm.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/acura/mdx/100443639/specs.html
By comparison, my Grand Cherokee made 230 h.p. at 4600 rpm, and 295 lb-ft of torque at 3200 rpm. Based on these numbers, I'd say the Acura would be less adequate in terms of towing power than my Cherokee was, and that was just OK in anything other than flat terrain.
Buckda posted 11-13-2009 04:48 PM ET (US)
Good clarification Andy. When I posted that figure, I was looking at the 2009 specs. I did not have the model year information from my friend until later this morning.
It appears that in the lightest possible configuration, his towing vehicle will be borderline at best. Start adding gear and it quickly becomes problematic, as I suspected.
Nothing so far in this post has prompted me to change my counsel.
hauptjm posted 11-13-2009 05:34 PM ET (US)
If..If, he/she could muster enough pull to get up to speed (Interstate), I'd hate to be the driver when I had to slow that rig down.
Personally, if I were doing this, I'd rent a Suburban and do the drive in style, comfort and safety. I don't even know my Outrage 18 is behind my Suburban and it's only a 1500 series.
DeeVee posted 11-13-2009 07:48 PM ET (US)
Dave,
I weighed my 22 Outrage, large T-top, with 200 Suzuki, 15 Suzuki (both old 2 strokes), full of fuel (77 gallon tank), loaded for a weekend of ocean salmon fishing. It weighed [5,300] pounds including the tandem axle aluminum trailer (960 lbs stamped on the trailer). State certified scale was used to weigh it.
I tow it behind a 2001, diesel powered Ford F-350.
Once the truck was down for the weekend, and I towed it with our 4.7 liter Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 600 pound tongue weight did not seem to be much of a problem for it.
That beiing said, I definately would rather not tow with the Jeep given the choice between the F-350 and the Jeep.
Hope this helps.
Doug Vazquez
SpongeBob posted 11-13-2009 08:38 PM ET (US)
1982 22' Outrage, twin 120 Evinrudes, aluminum tandem axel trailer (870lbs). Whole package with a 1/2 tank of gas weighed 4,500 lbs on a certified scale. I tow it with either a '99 2 door Tahoe with a 350 cu. in. engine or an '01 4 door Tahoe with 327 cu. in. engine. Both vehicles tow the boat fine but the nod deffinatly goes to the '01 due to it's longer wheelbase. As far as Acura goes, I don't think so, at least not with my boat. Trips to the local boat ramp are one thing, cross country is another thing entirely. An Armada or a Sequoia ok, an MDX no way. As far as 6 cylinders goes there is not one made (well maybe a Cummings)that I would use to do what your friend plans. I had a Ford truck that I used to tow my 23' Yawl when I first got the boat, it had a 300 six, a very torquey six. I lasted 6 months before I sold the truck. The Yawl weighs 5,000 lbs.
Jeff
dfmcintyre posted 11-14-2009 03:46 PM ET (US)
Dave -
He'll probably still tow it, as in his mind borderline equals "do-able".
I'd really recommend two things; the load equalizing hitch and keeping the speed to below truck traffic...60-65mph. The hitch will keep the rig from swaying and the speed limit will keep him from engine problems until he hits the mountains. From here until the Rockies he'll do ok but it will be the long tows up that will be the problem.
I disagree with your assessment of the 1500 series maxing out on a 22 weight. I had years, no over, a decade of towing a 25 Revenge with a 1500 pickup then 1500 Suburban without a load hitch. No problems with engine/transmission. Since selling the 25', I towed Walt's 25' with the l/e hitch. Significant handling changes, especially when downsizing to the Yukon frame. Walt towed it initially with a Suburban then Yukon and finally a short frame Chevy 2door (don't remember the model), all with the l/e hitch. No pulling problem (350ci and factory trailer package) and no handling problem. His only big hill was just coming out of the OH/KY border and again 1/2 way up the Lake Huron coast.
Best - Don
DeeVee posted 11-14-2009 10:20 PM ET (US)
Editing my earlier post is impossible, so below is the correction:
I was looking for the written records of my weigh scale session, to double check my 52 year old memory (which was seriously challenged yesterday). I finally found it today while looking through the owner's manual of my truck concerning another matter.
My memory was sort of close.
The boat with T-top and electronics box, motors, trailer, 3 ice chests full of ice and beverages, fuel tank to the brim, oil tanks full to the brim, two batteries, 2 anchors, 2 electric downriggers, with 4- 15 pound weights, several rods and reels and other associated tackle, spare tire, and electric winch.
I unhitched the trailer from the truck with the trailer jack and the two axles on the scale, the rig weighed 5300 pounds.
Sorry for the misinformation earlier.
jimh posted 11-15-2009 09:58 AM ET (US)
A summary of weights of 22-foot Boston Whaler boats on their trailers given above:
Outrage 22 = 4,400-lbs (jechura)
Revenge 22 = 5,600-lbs (jimh)
Outrage 22 = 5,400-lbs (PATXBill)
Outrage 22 = 5,300-lbs (DeeVee)
Outrage 22 = 4,500-lbs (SpongeBob)
Guardian 22= 7,640-lbs (Jeff)
themclos posted 11-15-2009 10:36 AM ET (US)
Dave,
My LoadRite galvanized tandem trailer weighs 1,600 lbs.
DeeVee's boat and aluminum trailer combination weighs 5,300 lbs
If we add the difference in trailer weight between my galvanized trailer and DeeVee's aluminum trailer, that brings the total weight to 5,940 lbs.
This could be a high end estimated weight for a 22 Outrage on a tandem galvenized trailer, albeit a very heavily loaded Outrage.
Dan
dfmcintyre posted 11-15-2009 11:07 AM ET (US)
Jim -
This request might not fly but; anyway to redo the list you just posted with details on rigging? i.e. twins vs single, Revenge vs Outrage? Thoughts?
Don
Bulldog posted 11-15-2009 03:58 PM ET (US)
Dave, that is too small a vehicle to tow that boat cross country. He also has to add driver, passengers, suitcases and such to the total, that can add up quick! If he is doing a once and done trip, get it hauled by a trucking firm. I've been in a bad sway condtion with my Tahoe, I now have air bag rear suspemsion and four wheel disc brakes with electric brake control at dash. It is not worth saving a little bit of money....Jack
Jeff posted 11-15-2009 04:04 PM ET (US)
Jimh:
Guardian 22= 7,640-lbs (Jeff)
[Added above--jimh]
Buckda posted 11-16-2009 08:47 AM ET (US)
Thanks everyone...
Apparently, he's not willing to give up the Acura (a statement of the quality of that vehicle). Therefore the 22' Whaler will have to wait as the cost of the vessel, plus a fund of $2,000 a year to rebuild the transmission on his tow vehicle has changed the economics of the purchase somewhat...

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: 22' Outrage and glavanized tandem axle trailer weight
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 09:22 AM ET (US) Not estimates. Has anybody actually weighed their boat/trailer combo on a certified scale? Can you share your numbers? I'm working with a fried and trying to talk him out of considering towing a 22' Outrage with T-Top on tandem galv. trailer rig across the country with a mid-sized V-6 Japanese luxury SUV.
Peter	posted 11-13-2009 09:46 AM ET (US) The motor and transmission of the SUV will be "toast" after towing that across country.
cdnwhaler	posted 11-13-2009 09:51 AM ET (US) 1984 Outrage 22 with 1990 225 Evinrude and 9.9 Evinrude = 4,340 lb. including fuel and some gear. Add on a 1993 6 cyl Grand Cherokee = GVW 8740 lb. The Jeep was rated to 5,000 lb. towing if a like hitch was used. Buy a weight distribution hitch called Equalizer made in Provo Utah. http://www.equalizerhitch.com
cdnwhaler	posted 11-13-2009 09:56 AM ET (US) This is the rig I drove 14 - 15 hours non-stop from Copper Harbor MI to Toronto in 2005 without incident.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 09:58 AM ET (US) The SUV is rated at 4,500 max lbs tow. I don't know what the GCVWR is, but that is why I'm very interested to know ACTUAL weights of the 22' Outrage on a tandem axle galvanized trailer. For instance, I estimated my trailer and boat at 3,500 lbs, but when I actually weighed it, I came in at 4,300 lbs. That's for an 18' Outrage, full fuel, twin 90 HP motors and full of gear/ice for fishing.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 10:01 AM ET (US) Is the '93 Jeep a body-on-frame construction or unibody? The Japanese luxury SUV is a unibody. It makes 300 HP, so there's no doubt that it can move the weight, but I'm more concerned about the 'tail wagging the dog' factor.
Jeff	posted 11-13-2009 10:03 AM ET (US) I know the 22 guardian on the trailer with full fuel and no gear comes in at 7640#. The CPD trailer along accounts for 2000# of that.
Jefecinco	posted 11-13-2009 10:08 AM ET (US) I read some years ago that load equalizing hitches were not recommended for trailers with surge brakes. Electrical brake trailers such as seen on RVs and utility trailers are fine for these hitches. I believe just about all frame mounted hitches are weight distributing hitches. This post is not to dispute Cdnwhaler's recommendation. It is more in the nature of an aside. I cannot even provide a cite for my comment. I possibly read this in Chapmans??? I do recommend that before using a load equalizing hitch for a boat trailer with surge brakes it could be useful to do a little research. Butch
cdnwhaler	posted 11-13-2009 10:10 AM ET (US) Buy the Equalizer hitch and there will little or no wagging. Walt Steffans did the research, I only bought it and it worked great. Solved all my worries at the time. The weight numbers I gave are from a CAT scale. But Dave, don't forget the amount of crap I used to carry on that boat to feed and keep me, 2 teenagers and a Lab. And no it didn't like hills too much.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 10:13 AM ET (US) Peter and Jeff - thanks for the real-world weights. I find this very interesting - especially the wide dispersal in apparent weight between the Guardian hull and the standard Outrage. I know for a fact that my father's Guardian broke the springs on my 2002 Explorer when I towed it a very short distance across town to the ramp. I heard them pop, and later confirmed it with the purchase of new rear shocks. I don't know the weight of that rig, but the Explorer was rated for 3,500 lbs.
cdnwhaler	posted 11-13-2009 10:15 AM ET (US) Jefecinco, You are exactly correct. But... Walt Steffans made a hitch that worked with surge brakes and he had a 25 Revenge and is why I was introduced to him. If you read the literature on the Equalizer website it's the only hitch made that works with surge brakes. Very unique...and expensive as I recall.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 10:21 AM ET (US) Yes, I believe that the smaller unit requires a $750 investment. ...but it is cheaper than a new vehicle.
Wasatch Whaler	posted 11-13-2009 10:42 AM ET (US) Dave, Does your friend's "Japanese luxury SUV" tow vehicle have the factory installed towing package or just an aftermarket hitch? The reason I ask is the factory towing package would likely include a larger transmission cooler. The biggest enemy of automatic transmissions is heat. I think you are correct about the potential "tail wagging the dog" effect. Towing a 22' boat with a mid-sized vehicle in strong cross winds would not be my idea of fun. Lastly, (IMHO) the factory tow ratings on some vehicles are completely bogus. For example, my "daily driver" is a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with the 4.7L V-8 and factory tow package. It is "rated" to tow 6,500 lbs and has a GCVWR of 11,000 lbs. There is no way I would consider approaching those limits.
newt	posted 11-13-2009 10:53 AM ET (US) I pulled a V20 Revenge home with a Jeep Cherokee rated at 5000 lbs once. Scared the crap out of me. I wouldn't even think of towing a 22 footer around long distance with that rig.
cdnwhaler	posted 11-13-2009 10:54 AM ET (US) I agree. I'm recently researching a new vehicle and the crossover VW Touareg with a 3.6 liter 6 cyl is rated to tow 7,719 lb. with a curb weight of 5,000 lb. Ya sure. Now we're talking some good tail wagging when you max this out. But it's got 24 valves the salesman says... :)
Peter	posted 11-13-2009 10:59 AM ET (US) "...the factory tow ratings on some vehicles are completely bogus." Exactly. My 1992 Nissan Pathfinder had a 3500 lb tow rating. That thing had squirrley handling towing my first Outrage 18 and I ended up blowing the exhaust manifolds off the engine towing it 20 miles down the road to the dealer for engine service because the engine exhaust got so hot. I dumped that SUV in favor of a Ford Explorer V8 with a 6500 lbs tow rating and never looked back. I remember being a passenger in a car years ago after my Pathfinder episode looking over to my right to see a pickup truck towing an RV trailer that we were passing. There was little doubt that the pickup truck was at its towing limit. From the low vantage point I could see the exhaust manifold through the space above the tire in the front wheel well. The manifold was glowing red.
andygere	posted 11-13-2009 11:02 AM ET (US) I used to tow my Outrage 22 Cuddy (on a Galv. EZ Loader) with a '99 Grand Cherokee with 4.7 L V8 and factory Class IV tow package. Power was just OK, not enough in the mountains. Braking was fine since the trailer had brakes on all 4 wheels. The big problem was the tongue weight. The Jeep just couldn't handle it, and the back of the Cherokee sagged more than I liked when we were loaded up for a trip. With just me and the boat, it wasn't as bad. The Jeep was a very nice rig and I really liked driving it, but I've since replaced it with a 2004 Suburban 2500, which is much better suited for towing my Whaler. My experience with luxury SUVs is that the suspension is just not stiff enough to carry a lot of tongue weight. If your friend insists on doing the tow, suggest that he level off the ride by installing some air bags on the rear springs. Wasatch is right on target with his analysis of the factory tow ratings: they are very optimistic. Also, I'm dubious of the 300 h.p. claim. The V6 probably makes that at 5000 rpms, but will it have enough low end torque to move that big boat? My Jeep went like a scalded cat without the boat behind it, but struggled going up grades with the boat behind it.
themclos	posted 11-13-2009 11:11 AM ET (US) Dave, Sorry, I have not yet weighed my 22 Outrage Cuddy and tandem galvanized trailer with surge brakes on both axles. The trailer is a Load-Rite. I do not have the trailer model and its weight is unavailable to me at the moment. I can tell you, I tow this with a 2008 Dodge Durango with the 5.7L Hemi engine and a 3.55 axle ratio. The Durango has a towing capacity of 7200 pounds with this configuration. It tows fine. I can feel it back there, but I have never felt the boat/trailer was in control. There is no way my 6 cylinder Ford Explorer could have handled this safely. Dan
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 11:21 AM ET (US) The tow vehicle does have the factory tow package with the transmission cooler. Thank you for the feedback. I'd still like to see a few more actual weights. I don't know what type of trailer this boat has - I do know it is galvanized box/tube construction and tandem axle, so I'm thinking it's pretty heavy. My channel steel galvanized tandem axle trailer under my 18' Outrage is 800+ lbs.
prj	posted 11-13-2009 11:32 AM ET (US) Do you know which "mid-sized V-6 Japanese Luxury SUV" is being considered here? I'm not certain where the cutoff between "mid-sized" and full-sized occurs. Were it a newer V6 Toyota 4Runner, I'd consider that tow possible. If its a V6 Toyota Highlander, the obvious answer is no way. I'm surprised so many have chimed in with absolute knowledge of the unknown vehicle's capabilities. I'm not surprised that people are throwing out the typical responses like "My BLANK can tow it just fine."
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 11:52 AM ET (US) It is an Acura MDX.
JMARTIN	posted 11-13-2009 11:59 AM ET (US) I would be concerned about stopping also. My 22 Revenge on a two axle galvanized trailer with surge brakes is not the most predictable thing when sudden brake application is needed. John
jechura	posted 11-13-2009 12:26 PM ET (US) Certified C.A.T.------Trailer 1,300 # ---- Boat 3,100 # for a total of 4,400 # I know that Peter would have never made that Isle Royale trip with his boys in the Jeep.
Peter	posted 11-13-2009 12:36 PM ET (US) A new Acura MDX has a towing capacity of 5000 lbs. There is no industry standard for tow capacity ratings so I would be very leary of the rating for a 3.7L V6. Towing a few miles down to the local boat ramp on flat road MIGHT be OK, but across country, absolutely no way. For a cross country tow, I'd want a Surburban 2500 with a big V8 and a long wheelbase or equivalent like Andy has.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 12:56 PM ET (US) This is a 2005 vehicle. I don't know the mileage, but the tow rating is 4500 lbs. The GCVWR is 9584 lbs. The Curb weight is about 4450 lbs. The GVWR is 5787. Based on that data and the approximate 4,500 lb estimate for the boat/trailer combination...I think he's over on the GVWR (with a 450 lb tongue weight) and just slightly over (by a few hundred pounds) on the GCVWR. I'm still pretty surprised that my rig, which is 4 feet shorter and has a smaller trailer is certified at a very similar wet weight. Being the conservative person that I am, I still think that this is too much boat/trailer for safe long distance highway towing. In fact, I know that the 22' Outrage/Revenge is generally "all" that a 1500 series American truck "wants" for a long distance tow.
jimh	posted 11-13-2009 01:18 PM ET (US) Twice I have weighed by Boston Whaler 22-footer on a certified scale. Most recently I gave a detailed analysis of the weights I deduced in http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016667.html I suppose my REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive may weigh more than a stock OUTRAGE 22, however the added weight of a T-Top should make up some of the difference. The combined weight of my boat and trailer was 5,600-lbs. I tow with a vehicle that has 132-inch-long wheelbase and a 7,000-lbs tow rating. I would not consider it reasonable to downsize my tow vehicle, either in wheelbase length or in towing capacity, and, quite the opposite, I would be more likely to increase the towing capacity were I to get a new vehicle.
PATXBill	posted 11-13-2009 02:55 PM ET (US) My 1984 Outrage 22 with full 129 fuel tank, 1987 225 Evinrude V6, two batteries, 25 lbs of anchor and chain and Magnum galvanized trailer weighed 5400 pounds on certified scales.
andygere	posted 11-13-2009 04:14 PM ET (US) quote: It makes 300 HP Edmunds says that a 2005 Acura MDX makes 265 h.p. at 5800 rpm and 253 lb-ft of torque at 3500 rpm. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/acura/mdx/100443639/specs.html By comparison, my Grand Cherokee made 230 h.p. at 4600 rpm, and 295 lb-ft of torque at 3200 rpm. Based on these numbers, I'd say the Acura would be less adequate in terms of towing power than my Cherokee was, and that was just OK in anything other than flat terrain.
Buckda	posted 11-13-2009 04:48 PM ET (US) Good clarification Andy. When I posted that figure, I was looking at the 2009 specs. I did not have the model year information from my friend until later this morning. It appears that in the lightest possible configuration, his towing vehicle will be borderline at best. Start adding gear and it quickly becomes problematic, as I suspected. Nothing so far in this post has prompted me to change my counsel.
hauptjm	posted 11-13-2009 05:34 PM ET (US) If..If, he/she could muster enough pull to get up to speed (Interstate), I'd hate to be the driver when I had to slow that rig down. Personally, if I were doing this, I'd rent a Suburban and do the drive in style, comfort and safety. I don't even know my Outrage 18 is behind my Suburban and it's only a 1500 series.
DeeVee	posted 11-13-2009 07:48 PM ET (US) Dave, I weighed my 22 Outrage, large T-top, with 200 Suzuki, 15 Suzuki (both old 2 strokes), full of fuel (77 gallon tank), loaded for a weekend of ocean salmon fishing. It weighed [5,300] pounds including the tandem axle aluminum trailer (960 lbs stamped on the trailer). State certified scale was used to weigh it. I tow it behind a 2001, diesel powered Ford F-350. Once the truck was down for the weekend, and I towed it with our 4.7 liter Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 600 pound tongue weight did not seem to be much of a problem for it. That beiing said, I definately would rather not tow with the Jeep given the choice between the F-350 and the Jeep. Hope this helps. Doug Vazquez
SpongeBob	posted 11-13-2009 08:38 PM ET (US) 1982 22' Outrage, twin 120 Evinrudes, aluminum tandem axel trailer (870lbs). Whole package with a 1/2 tank of gas weighed 4,500 lbs on a certified scale. I tow it with either a '99 2 door Tahoe with a 350 cu. in. engine or an '01 4 door Tahoe with 327 cu. in. engine. Both vehicles tow the boat fine but the nod deffinatly goes to the '01 due to it's longer wheelbase. As far as Acura goes, I don't think so, at least not with my boat. Trips to the local boat ramp are one thing, cross country is another thing entirely. An Armada or a Sequoia ok, an MDX no way. As far as 6 cylinders goes there is not one made (well maybe a Cummings)that I would use to do what your friend plans. I had a Ford truck that I used to tow my 23' Yawl when I first got the boat, it had a 300 six, a very torquey six. I lasted 6 months before I sold the truck. The Yawl weighs 5,000 lbs. Jeff
dfmcintyre	posted 11-14-2009 03:46 PM ET (US) Dave - He'll probably still tow it, as in his mind borderline equals "do-able". I'd really recommend two things; the load equalizing hitch and keeping the speed to below truck traffic...60-65mph. The hitch will keep the rig from swaying and the speed limit will keep him from engine problems until he hits the mountains. From here until the Rockies he'll do ok but it will be the long tows up that will be the problem. I disagree with your assessment of the 1500 series maxing out on a 22 weight. I had years, no over, a decade of towing a 25 Revenge with a 1500 pickup then 1500 Suburban without a load hitch. No problems with engine/transmission. Since selling the 25', I towed Walt's 25' with the l/e hitch. Significant handling changes, especially when downsizing to the Yukon frame. Walt towed it initially with a Suburban then Yukon and finally a short frame Chevy 2door (don't remember the model), all with the l/e hitch. No pulling problem (350ci and factory trailer package) and no handling problem. His only big hill was just coming out of the OH/KY border and again 1/2 way up the Lake Huron coast. Best - Don
DeeVee	posted 11-14-2009 10:20 PM ET (US) Editing my earlier post is impossible, so below is the correction: I was looking for the written records of my weigh scale session, to double check my 52 year old memory (which was seriously challenged yesterday). I finally found it today while looking through the owner's manual of my truck concerning another matter. My memory was sort of close. The boat with T-top and electronics box, motors, trailer, 3 ice chests full of ice and beverages, fuel tank to the brim, oil tanks full to the brim, two batteries, 2 anchors, 2 electric downriggers, with 4- 15 pound weights, several rods and reels and other associated tackle, spare tire, and electric winch. I unhitched the trailer from the truck with the trailer jack and the two axles on the scale, the rig weighed 5300 pounds. Sorry for the misinformation earlier.
jimh	posted 11-15-2009 09:58 AM ET (US) A summary of weights of 22-foot Boston Whaler boats on their trailers given above: Outrage 22 = 4,400-lbs (jechura) Revenge 22 = 5,600-lbs (jimh) Outrage 22 = 5,400-lbs (PATXBill) Outrage 22 = 5,300-lbs (DeeVee) Outrage 22 = 4,500-lbs (SpongeBob) Guardian 22= 7,640-lbs (Jeff)
themclos	posted 11-15-2009 10:36 AM ET (US) Dave, My LoadRite galvanized tandem trailer weighs 1,600 lbs. DeeVee's boat and aluminum trailer combination weighs 5,300 lbs If we add the difference in trailer weight between my galvanized trailer and DeeVee's aluminum trailer, that brings the total weight to 5,940 lbs. This could be a high end estimated weight for a 22 Outrage on a tandem galvenized trailer, albeit a very heavily loaded Outrage. Dan
dfmcintyre	posted 11-15-2009 11:07 AM ET (US) Jim - This request might not fly but; anyway to redo the list you just posted with details on rigging? i.e. twins vs single, Revenge vs Outrage? Thoughts? Don
Bulldog	posted 11-15-2009 03:58 PM ET (US) Dave, that is too small a vehicle to tow that boat cross country. He also has to add driver, passengers, suitcases and such to the total, that can add up quick! If he is doing a once and done trip, get it hauled by a trucking firm. I've been in a bad sway condtion with my Tahoe, I now have air bag rear suspemsion and four wheel disc brakes with electric brake control at dash. It is not worth saving a little bit of money....Jack
Jeff	posted 11-15-2009 04:04 PM ET (US) Jimh: Guardian 22= 7,640-lbs (Jeff) [Added above--jimh]
Buckda	posted 11-16-2009 08:47 AM ET (US) Thanks everyone... Apparently, he's not willing to give up the Acura (a statement of the quality of that vehicle). Therefore the 22' Whaler will have to wait as the cost of the vessel, plus a fund of $2,000 a year to rebuild the transmission on his tow vehicle has changed the economics of the purchase somewhat...