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Author Topic:   Debate on Language: Vessel or Boat

jechura posted 11-14-2009 08:59 AM ET (US)
Is [a Boston Whaer] a boat or is it a vessel? Yes, I know that technically it can be both. But are we moving towards a more formal wording? Three months ago the word "vessel" was rarely used until a small boat was posted for sale, but called a "vessel". jimh, are you also confused? In you your last post about "bilges' ", you started out with, "Most vessels-------" and ended up with "Boston Whaler boats" ? Or is it just different strokes for different folks?
elaelap posted 11-14-2009 09:47 AM ET (US)
A grape is a small fruit; an orange is a larger fruit. A boat is usually* a small vessel; a ship is a larger vessel. One classic definition of a boat is that it's a vessel which is capable of being carrier aboard another vessel, a ship.
Tony
*Usually small, but not always: consider submarines, which are always "boats" no matter their size, and recreational "sailboats", which can be huge (200+ ft) without being designated "sailing ships."
elaelap posted 11-14-2009 09:48 AM ET (US)
carried rather than 'carrier'
jimh posted 11-14-2009 09:51 AM ET (US)
A Boston Whaler is a boat, a skiff, a runabout, a cruiser--it's many things.
Plotman posted 11-14-2009 12:30 PM ET (US)
Up here, even though they are over 1,000 feet long and carry 70,000 tons of cargo, they are ore-boats.
My neighbor is the Chief Engineer of on of the fleets, talks of putting a new engine in "one of our boats".
So in every day vernacular, they are all boats.
Kind of like the distinction between a yacht and a boat. Has a lot more to do with how stuck up the owner is, rather than how big or fancy the boat is.
jimh posted 11-14-2009 01:24 PM ET (US)
I am unaware of the article Jerry makes reference to as introducing the term "vessel" into our discussions. I use "vessel" as a generic term. I don't believe there is a inference of size associated with vessel.
Merriam-Webster says: vessel--a watercraft bigger than a rowboat.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vessel
That works for me and is consistent with how I have used the term.
As far as this discussion, I'd say its a has potential to be just bilge. Here I refer again to Merriam-Webster, definition number three:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bilge
ASIDE to Jerry--I'd like to clarify one thing about my use of the term "vessel" when (in another thread to which you alluded in your initial article) I was discussing the nature of hull construction with the feature of a double-bottom. I used "vessel" because in general I think it is entirely fair to say that most of the time that you see a double-bottom hull construction it is in larger watercraft (to use a generic term), that is, watercraft that are larger than a rowboat. Most of the hulls with double bottoms that I am familiar with are rather large hulls, and typically very large hulls.
The Boston Whaler boat is something of a unique design in that it has a double-bottom hull in very small sizes. The 13-foot Boston Whaler boat is not something I would ordinarily call a vessel, although I might it a proper little vessel.
GreatBayNH posted 11-14-2009 02:31 PM ET (US)
As found in the United States Coast Guard Auxilary Boating Skills and Seamanship course library; the correct answer to the multiple choice question 1-3 found at the end of Lesson 1:
1-3) "A vessel is anything used on the water for "

b) Transportation.
elaelap posted 11-14-2009 10:27 PM ET (US)
Thanks for that, Plotman. Ore-boats, sure, no matter their size. I enjoy boating ephemera, and the "what constitutes a boat?" question always pops up around the dock or at a waterfront bar, sorta like the "how many 'ropes' are on a sailboat?" challenge.
Tony
R T M posted 11-15-2009 07:42 AM ET (US)
[Gave his personal opinion about the people who use the term "vessel." Sorry, the discussion is about the language, not the people who use it--jimh]
Tom Hemphill posted 11-15-2009 08:56 AM ET (US)
When operating my classic 13-foot Boston Whaler, I was stopped by law enforcement officers. After checking my paperwork, they said I was all set. Before leaving, I complimented them on their boat, and they in turn said "nice little vessel you have there." Just like calling cars and trucks "vehicles," I think they use "vessel" as an all-inclusive name.
Don88outrage posted 11-15-2009 10:16 AM ET (US)
There seems to be a lot of regional and traditional language when it comes to boats. If you are into boat building you learn that there's not many boat parts that don't have numerous names, i.e., wales, inwales, gunwhale, gunnels, sheer clamps and stringers can be whatever you have along the sheer line, and the cieling or sheathing which is not necessairly something over your head, depends where you are and who you're talking to.
R T M posted 11-16-2009 06:31 PM ET (US)
jimh
Sorry, you took it personal, I guess that's why you also deleted my definitions of the word "vessel". LOL
rich/Binkie
SJUAE posted 11-16-2009 08:02 PM ET (US)
Tom
I think it's not applicable to introduce an analogy to regional words for cars/trucks etc into the general discussion as most nautical terms date back 100's of years or more, where cars and especially north american terms for them are only used by a small percentage of the world.
Of course thanks to US TV most of us can get your drift
There is a proliferation of recent nautical terms more to do with changes in methods of propulution and styling than vessel class.
I guess if we were sail boat owners it would be simpler and depend on how much your vessel/yatch cost :)
Regards
Steve

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Author	Topic: Debate on Language: Vessel or Boat
jechura	posted 11-14-2009 08:59 AM ET (US) Is [a Boston Whaer] a boat or is it a vessel? Yes, I know that technically it can be both. But are we moving towards a more formal wording? Three months ago the word "vessel" was rarely used until a small boat was posted for sale, but called a "vessel". jimh, are you also confused? In you your last post about "bilges' ", you started out with, "Most vessels-------" and ended up with "Boston Whaler boats" ? Or is it just different strokes for different folks?
elaelap	posted 11-14-2009 09:47 AM ET (US) A grape is a small fruit; an orange is a larger fruit. A boat is usually* a small vessel; a ship is a larger vessel. One classic definition of a boat is that it's a vessel which is capable of being carrier aboard another vessel, a ship. Tony *Usually small, but not always: consider submarines, which are always "boats" no matter their size, and recreational "sailboats", which can be huge (200+ ft) without being designated "sailing ships."
elaelap	posted 11-14-2009 09:48 AM ET (US) carried rather than 'carrier'
jimh	posted 11-14-2009 09:51 AM ET (US) A Boston Whaler is a boat, a skiff, a runabout, a cruiser--it's many things.
Plotman	posted 11-14-2009 12:30 PM ET (US) Up here, even though they are over 1,000 feet long and carry 70,000 tons of cargo, they are ore-boats. My neighbor is the Chief Engineer of on of the fleets, talks of putting a new engine in "one of our boats". So in every day vernacular, they are all boats. Kind of like the distinction between a yacht and a boat. Has a lot more to do with how stuck up the owner is, rather than how big or fancy the boat is.
jimh	posted 11-14-2009 01:24 PM ET (US) I am unaware of the article Jerry makes reference to as introducing the term "vessel" into our discussions. I use "vessel" as a generic term. I don't believe there is a inference of size associated with vessel. Merriam-Webster says: vessel--a watercraft bigger than a rowboat. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vessel That works for me and is consistent with how I have used the term. As far as this discussion, I'd say its a has potential to be just bilge. Here I refer again to Merriam-Webster, definition number three: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bilge ASIDE to Jerry--I'd like to clarify one thing about my use of the term "vessel" when (in another thread to which you alluded in your initial article) I was discussing the nature of hull construction with the feature of a double-bottom. I used "vessel" because in general I think it is entirely fair to say that most of the time that you see a double-bottom hull construction it is in larger watercraft (to use a generic term), that is, watercraft that are larger than a rowboat. Most of the hulls with double bottoms that I am familiar with are rather large hulls, and typically very large hulls. The Boston Whaler boat is something of a unique design in that it has a double-bottom hull in very small sizes. The 13-foot Boston Whaler boat is not something I would ordinarily call a vessel, although I might it a proper little vessel.
GreatBayNH	posted 11-14-2009 02:31 PM ET (US) As found in the United States Coast Guard Auxilary Boating Skills and Seamanship course library; the correct answer to the multiple choice question 1-3 found at the end of Lesson 1: 1-3) "A vessel is anything used on the water for " b) Transportation.
elaelap	posted 11-14-2009 10:27 PM ET (US) Thanks for that, Plotman. Ore-boats, sure, no matter their size. I enjoy boating ephemera, and the "what constitutes a boat?" question always pops up around the dock or at a waterfront bar, sorta like the "how many 'ropes' are on a sailboat?" challenge. Tony
R T M	posted 11-15-2009 07:42 AM ET (US) [Gave his personal opinion about the people who use the term "vessel." Sorry, the discussion is about the language, not the people who use it--jimh]
Tom Hemphill	posted 11-15-2009 08:56 AM ET (US) When operating my classic 13-foot Boston Whaler, I was stopped by law enforcement officers. After checking my paperwork, they said I was all set. Before leaving, I complimented them on their boat, and they in turn said "nice little vessel you have there." Just like calling cars and trucks "vehicles," I think they use "vessel" as an all-inclusive name.
Don88outrage	posted 11-15-2009 10:16 AM ET (US) There seems to be a lot of regional and traditional language when it comes to boats. If you are into boat building you learn that there's not many boat parts that don't have numerous names, i.e., wales, inwales, gunwhale, gunnels, sheer clamps and stringers can be whatever you have along the sheer line, and the cieling or sheathing which is not necessairly something over your head, depends where you are and who you're talking to.
R T M	posted 11-16-2009 06:31 PM ET (US) jimh Sorry, you took it personal, I guess that's why you also deleted my definitions of the word "vessel". LOL rich/Binkie
SJUAE	posted 11-16-2009 08:02 PM ET (US) Tom I think it's not applicable to introduce an analogy to regional words for cars/trucks etc into the general discussion as most nautical terms date back 100's of years or more, where cars and especially north american terms for them are only used by a small percentage of the world. Of course thanks to US TV most of us can get your drift There is a proliferation of recent nautical terms more to do with changes in methods of propulution and styling than vessel class. I guess if we were sail boat owners it would be simpler and depend on how much your vessel/yatch cost :) Regards Steve