Survey of Engine Manufacturer's Assembly Techniques To Facilitate Removal of Fasteners

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Author Topic:   Survey of Engine Manufacturer's Assembly Techniques To Facilitate Removal of Fasteners

pcrussell50 posted 01-11-2010 10:22 PM ET (US)
I just went through my beautiful "new" Yamaha motor, ultra-low hours, 1985, 40hp, removing and re-installing the bolts to the major systems that come up for routine maintenance, and slathering them with non-copper anti-seize. I got to wondering if ANY of the outboard OEM's bother to do this kind of thing at the factory? And if not, WHY not? Are their margins so slim that the extra time it takes unacceptable? Or do they think that things like water pump impellers should last the life of the motor? Are they hoping against hope that by making a critical maintenance operation into a cast-iron [profanity deleted], we'll just say, [profanity deleted], and buy a new motor? Sigh.
Peter
Santa Barbara, CA
Chuck Tribolet posted 01-11-2010 10:25 PM ET (US)
[Sorry--reply was off topic. This discussion is only interested in learning about manufacturer's assembly techniques. This is a not a maintenance or repair discussion per the originator's request.--jimh]
fno posted 01-11-2010 10:56 PM ET (US)
[Sorry--reply was off topic. This discussion is only interested in learning about manufacturer assembly techniques. This is a not a maintenance or repair discussion per the originator's request.--jimh]
jimh posted 01-11-2010 11:31 PM ET (US)
Please note: This is a not a discussion of techniques for preventing corrosion or facilitating removal of fasteners. There is a concurrent discussion in the REPAIRS/MODS forum. This discussion is a survey of techniques used by manufacturers in the original assembly of their outboard motors to facilitate future removal of fasteners by the customer for maintenance at some later date. No advice, just information on manufacturer's practices. Thank you.
jimh posted 01-11-2010 11:40 PM ET (US)
Modern manufacturing techniques are considerably more advanced that those used by Yamaha in making outboard motors in 1985. I don't think we have to hold up the 1985 Yamaha outboard motor as the global standard for best practice in assembly and choice of materials. Nor should we think that no progress has been made since 1985. In the 25 years that have elapsed since then, there appears to have been considerable advancement in manufacturing and use of threaded fasteners with anti-sieze or lock-tite added pastes.
In my work I often disassemble many manufactured devices in order to perform repairs on them or access their internal components. I notice more often than not that threaded fasteners that I remove nowadays often have been coated with a material applied to the threads. In most cases I assume this material was applied to help retain the fastener and prevent it from unthreading.
Also, in various trade magazines that I read I see advertisements from companies that manufacture threaded fasteners which can be supplied pre-coated with various compounds to enhance the connection the threads make with the threaded hole they're installed into.
Most of the devices I work on are not outboard motors, but rather modern electronic devices such as laptop computers or personal digital assistants. The fasteners are all very small. However, even in these miniature screws, I see application of compounds to the threads. It would not surprise me at all to learn that a similar approach is used in outboard engine manufacturing in 2010 models. However, I do not have any direct knowledge of that industry's practices.
gnr posted 01-12-2010 11:13 AM ET (US)
It's been my experience that wherever a thread locking compound or anti-seize compound is mentioned as required in the service manual one will find the specified compound as having been applied at the factory during assembly.
My experience is more related to motorcycles, snowmobiles and power equipment then outboards.
I have no experience working on 1985 Yamaha outboards.
I do know that in some applications where fluid transporting passages are involved it is often stated that no compounds should be used so as to reduce the risk of blockage of the passages.
jimh posted 01-12-2010 06:19 PM ET (US)
Please view this exploded view part diagram of a modern outboard motor assembly:
http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/jsp/AsplIsmCcatViewBase.jsp?&lvlCode=4& pCode=C0022972&path=MM~A0000001~M0001008~M0001015~C0022972& isFromCMS=false&hideAdd2CartButton=&isStandAlone=&is4CmsShop=& reqln=Unknown&reqem=Unknown&reqph=Unknown&reqFor=29&req4Browse=1&docId=& docName=&isForSupStore=true&cCatFilter=MM& eCatSupFldr=supplier-050-025-MM%0D
Please note the many places in the diagram where the use of some compound is indicated (by the notation of a small tube or container). I count 12 places in this assembly where the manufacturer shows that the components being joined are to have some type of compound applied to them. I assume that these compounds are intended to enhance the assembly of the components.
Note that there are at least four different compounds identified (by the different numbers on the tubes). Compounds numbered 7, 87, 94 and 95 are called for.
I think this assembly diagram is good evidence that modern outboard motors are assembled with fasteners and other components joined in a manner that include application of joint compounds.

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Author	Topic: Survey of Engine Manufacturer's Assembly Techniques To Facilitate Removal of Fasteners
pcrussell50	posted 01-11-2010 10:22 PM ET (US) I just went through my beautiful "new" Yamaha motor, ultra-low hours, 1985, 40hp, removing and re-installing the bolts to the major systems that come up for routine maintenance, and slathering them with non-copper anti-seize. I got to wondering if ANY of the outboard OEM's bother to do this kind of thing at the factory? And if not, WHY not? Are their margins so slim that the extra time it takes unacceptable? Or do they think that things like water pump impellers should last the life of the motor? Are they hoping against hope that by making a critical maintenance operation into a cast-iron [profanity deleted], we'll just say, [profanity deleted], and buy a new motor? Sigh. Peter Santa Barbara, CA
Chuck Tribolet	posted 01-11-2010 10:25 PM ET (US) [Sorry--reply was off topic. This discussion is only interested in learning about manufacturer's assembly techniques. This is a not a maintenance or repair discussion per the originator's request.--jimh]
fno	posted 01-11-2010 10:56 PM ET (US) [Sorry--reply was off topic. This discussion is only interested in learning about manufacturer assembly techniques. This is a not a maintenance or repair discussion per the originator's request.--jimh]
jimh	posted 01-11-2010 11:31 PM ET (US) Please note: This is a not a discussion of techniques for preventing corrosion or facilitating removal of fasteners. There is a concurrent discussion in the REPAIRS/MODS forum. This discussion is a survey of techniques used by manufacturers in the original assembly of their outboard motors to facilitate future removal of fasteners by the customer for maintenance at some later date. No advice, just information on manufacturer's practices. Thank you.
jimh	posted 01-11-2010 11:40 PM ET (US) Modern manufacturing techniques are considerably more advanced that those used by Yamaha in making outboard motors in 1985. I don't think we have to hold up the 1985 Yamaha outboard motor as the global standard for best practice in assembly and choice of materials. Nor should we think that no progress has been made since 1985. In the 25 years that have elapsed since then, there appears to have been considerable advancement in manufacturing and use of threaded fasteners with anti-sieze or lock-tite added pastes. In my work I often disassemble many manufactured devices in order to perform repairs on them or access their internal components. I notice more often than not that threaded fasteners that I remove nowadays often have been coated with a material applied to the threads. In most cases I assume this material was applied to help retain the fastener and prevent it from unthreading. Also, in various trade magazines that I read I see advertisements from companies that manufacture threaded fasteners which can be supplied pre-coated with various compounds to enhance the connection the threads make with the threaded hole they're installed into. Most of the devices I work on are not outboard motors, but rather modern electronic devices such as laptop computers or personal digital assistants. The fasteners are all very small. However, even in these miniature screws, I see application of compounds to the threads. It would not surprise me at all to learn that a similar approach is used in outboard engine manufacturing in 2010 models. However, I do not have any direct knowledge of that industry's practices.
gnr	posted 01-12-2010 11:13 AM ET (US) It's been my experience that wherever a thread locking compound or anti-seize compound is mentioned as required in the service manual one will find the specified compound as having been applied at the factory during assembly. My experience is more related to motorcycles, snowmobiles and power equipment then outboards. I have no experience working on 1985 Yamaha outboards. I do know that in some applications where fluid transporting passages are involved it is often stated that no compounds should be used so as to reduce the risk of blockage of the passages.
jimh	posted 01-12-2010 06:19 PM ET (US) Please view this exploded view part diagram of a modern outboard motor assembly: http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/jsp/AsplIsmCcatViewBase.jsp?&lvlCode=4& pCode=C0022972&path=MM~A0000001~M0001008~M0001015~C0022972& isFromCMS=false&hideAdd2CartButton=&isStandAlone=&is4CmsShop=& reqln=Unknown&reqem=Unknown&reqph=Unknown&reqFor=29&req4Browse=1&docId=& docName=&isForSupStore=true&cCatFilter=MM& eCatSupFldr=supplier-050-025-MM%0D Please note the many places in the diagram where the use of some compound is indicated (by the notation of a small tube or container). I count 12 places in this assembly where the manufacturer shows that the components being joined are to have some type of compound applied to them. I assume that these compounds are intended to enhance the assembly of the components. Note that there are at least four different compounds identified (by the different numbers on the tubes). Compounds numbered 7, 87, 94 and 95 are called for. I think this assembly diagram is good evidence that modern outboard motors are assembled with fasteners and other components joined in a manner that include application of joint compounds.