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johnhenry posted 03-24-2010 02:39 PM ET (US)
Not a whaler topic, but I know some of you are sailboat enthusiasts. I am beginning my search for a older 30-36ft. Are there certain manufacturers to steer clear of? I have some knowledge of quality boats but would like some feedback.
ConB posted 03-24-2010 03:43 PM ET (US)
Is there a budget your are trying to stay with in?
Remember the sale price is just the price of admission, there is much more to pay for down the road.
Just like Whalers, condition of an old boat is very important.
Speaking of old boats, there is a magazine titled "Good Old Boat",. Go to the library and read the reviews. "Practical Sailor" has done old boat reviews.
Cape Dories are good.
Allied built boats are good.
Pacific Sea Crafts are good.
Hinckleys are good.
Con
mgeiger posted 03-24-2010 04:01 PM ET (US)
Budget & Intended use would help. The above boats are good. Add S2, Pearson, C&C, Beneteau & J/Boats (I've owned and raced a 24 and a 29). A survey is a must. Check out some local clubs - see what people have. Offer to crew and check em out. Good luck.
rslsail posted 03-24-2010 05:00 PM ET (US)
Generally, I would say that a 30 ft sailboat and a 36ft sailboat are two completely differnt classes of boat. And cost go up exponetially as the size gets bigger.
That being said, a Catalina 30 would be a great entry level boat of which thousands have been made. There are several things that make it a great boat, mostly because of its simplicity of design. Except for some freshening of the interior from time to time, its basically been the same boat since the early 70's through the late 90's.
Its features include a large cockpit with plenty of room to lay down and spread out, an open airy cabin that can sleep 7, and is all the space you would ever need for a couple or two. It has powerful diesel engine, h/c water and a propane stove to go with a icebox or refridge. Decent size bathroom with a shower. It has a simple sail plan and sails comfortable in light winds and will keep you safe in the sloppy stuff.
These boats hold up well, I owned one that I bought used and sold it after 11 years for what I paid for it, how many boats can you say that about?
But just as a means of comparison, a 36 foot Catalina would probably have A/C, two staterooms with queen beds and doors, head with a seperate shower. The boat would probably be 2 feet beamier, probably close to 13 ft, close to 7 ft headroom in the cabin, it would have a larger engine and be significantly heavier.
I will conclude by saying the Calalina in a solid well built boat that will hold its value and has thousands of hulls to back up its reliablity. There are plenty of examples from the 70's still on the water and for sale today.
This would be a great boat to see if sailing is for you, keeping in mind that this is a boat akin to a Chevy, not a Mercedes. To give you an idea a new Catlina 309 is about 100k, you can easliy find 30 footers costing twice as much if thats the route you wanted to go.
johnhenry posted 03-24-2010 06:04 PM ET (US)
I know there is a dramatic difference in lengths of boats as far as amenities and sailability-if that is a word. I have sailed on and off since I was a kid. I learned to sail and actually took a sailing class as a preteen. We sailed Prams on Biscayne Bay in the Miami area. I spent a lot of time on a 32ft Bristol which was in Bristol condition a decade or so ago.
Right now as you all know, the price on boats is extremely depressed, including around here (Chesapeake bay). I can pick up a great sailboat for under 40k, if not a lot lower.
I know Catalina's are like a Chevy, my concern is more about picking up a lousy boat than figuring out what is the Whaler of sailboats. I want one with a diesel engine. Are there diesels to stay away from? Most are Yanmars or Perkins that I see around here.
Maintenance and time are a given, so are slip cost. I would love to do some cruising as we grow older(still young now-53:) I want my wife and daughter to experience life on a boat. If they don't like sailing I would consider a trawler.
JMARTIN posted 03-24-2010 07:03 PM ET (US)
Too funny, when I bought my Catalina 30, which I loved, the salesman described it as "the Chevy Impala" of sailboats. Mine was tall rigged with pedestal steering which was nice for the light, unpredictable winds we have up here in boating season. I motored at least three times as much as I sailed if I wanted to actually go anywhere.
If you do not know if the wife and daughter will enjoy sailing, charter one for a weekend before buying one. When I got married, the sailboat got sold. My wife liked being out on the water and spending the night in a nice quiet anchorage, but only if we motored.
Sailing was to her: too much work, too much of an angle (heeled over), too boring most of the time and absolutely terrifying the rest of the time.
The plan was to buy a trawler but little things like house payments, kids, dogs, and now college tuition's got in the way. Stupid college tuition, times two, there are some great deals on boats out there.
John

jimh posted 03-24-2010 07:35 PM ET (US)
Move this to a sailing website.
Chris J posted 03-24-2010 07:54 PM ET (US)
Hey, Whaler built sailboats once. I own one. It is a bit under 30 feet, though.
jimh posted 03-24-2010 08:04 PM ET (US)
If I could reacclimatize to going 5-MPH at top speed, there are so many great deals on wonderful sailboat now that I don't know which one I'd buy. Sailboats that I used to covet in the 1980's are now bargain priced.
Is sailing less expensive than power boating? It looks like it at first glance, but it may not be. Sailing hardware is expensive.
ConB posted 03-24-2010 09:27 PM ET (US)
I was thinking that having a trailerable 18' Whaler had to be less expensive than a 28' sailboat that needed a marina slip in the summer and a boat yard to haul and launch it.
Well, then the trailer broke and needed replacing. The next year a main bearing in the engine self destructed.
But I can cover a lot more miles in a day, if the waves are not too big.
Con
logjam posted 03-24-2010 10:24 PM ET (US)
I think I would be looking at which boats have the characteristics you are looking for to determine which models would be acceptable, or which you would want to pass on.
For me I didn't want a fin keel and I did want a skeg protected rudder so that I could beach the boat or go dry on a grid to do maintenance. That meant that I would look for either a full keel or modified fin keel with skeg protected rudder. I ended up with a modified fin keel with skeg protected rudder because of the performance considerations.
I know that some of the Islanders had hull blister issues and the company is no longer in business so they would be lower on my list than some of the other builders.
About eight years ago a friend of mine asked me to look at the list of boats that he had finally narrowed down to fit his price range. He ended up passing on all of them because of expensive issues. The worst of what we saw had been raced hard on a low budget.
Good luck, and I'm not trying to be discouraging, I'm sure there are some great deals out there now...it would be fun to look.
johnhenry posted 03-25-2010 07:40 AM ET (US)
I would never give up my whaler. A sailboat would be an addition to the fleet. Boats that would have gone for over 60-70k a few years ago are now very affordable. I don't want a newer one . There is a glut of affordable well maintained boats on the Chesapeake.
BTW jimh. Whalers and sailboats have gone hand in hand for 50 years. As smaller whaler sailboats and as dinghy's for larger boats. I respectfully say that this thread qualifies for the general discussion area.
rslsail posted 03-25-2010 09:03 AM ET (US)
JMARTIN- the best description of sailing you will find anywhere "too boring most of the time and absolutely terrifying the rest of the time."
JIMH- in terms of shore power usage and fuel, you can't beat the sailboat, on a 32 ft boat I've used less than 10 gallons of diesel in the past two years, combined. Like everything else, if you are handy and can do the work you're in pretty good shape from a cost perspective if you yard does everything, you pay.
Hardware is expensive but it lasts if taken care of. I've know guys who have repowered twin diesels and paid more than what I paid for my boat.
Oh yeah, I'm having this discussion here because I own and love my whaler, and a fellow member had a sailboat question.
skred posted 03-25-2010 09:27 AM ET (US)
I am still seriously considering having a Whaler and a sailboat. Not 30 feet perhaps but 18-24 feet perhaps. Here in WI, I see a LOT of very nice Catalinas and similar boats at extremely low prices: $2,600 to $7,000... Very tempting. I had a line on a Whaler Harpoon (6.2?) 18 feet or longer, for $5,000, but when I went to look at it - it already had a deposit on it...
ocean31 posted 03-25-2010 03:19 PM ET (US)
As he slowly swims up from the depths, where he has been lurking.......
There is a Harpoon on ebay right now, for 2K. Looks pretty good via pictures.
I have owned lots of sailboats, rebuilt even more, and I would have to agree, Catalina, for resale, good basic value, simple boats. Take them most anywhere, Just plain good value.
There are better sailboats out there, Island Packets, Camper Nicholson, and so on. But Catalina is a excellent starter boat. Or a good boat if you do not want to get into sailing in a major way
JSB
David Jenkins posted 03-25-2010 04:48 PM ET (US)
Since we are way past being told that this is the wrong forum to post any of this in, I just can't help but mention that I have a 1980 24’ Hallman Shark that was made in Canada and is in good shape except it needs new electronics. It is on a trailer, has two sets of sails and an outboard motor. I don’t have time to sail it. It is yours for $4500 or best offer. Located in Durham, NC.
aja posted 03-26-2010 08:39 AM ET (US)
We owned a couple of whalers and then sold the 2nd to purchase our Ericson 33 about 8 years ago. After a couple of seasons we missed having no power boat so purchased our OUTRAGE 19II which has been a great boat as well. Having 2 boats is nice but definitely has the downside of more maintenance, logistical headaches, cost, etc. If I were retired I might have time to use these 2 boats to their full extent in our short summer season. However between these toys, my (wonderful) motorcycle, family obligations and this pesky full time job I need to pay for this stuff, each season ends wishing I had more time.
For anyone shopping for a new sailboat, my first question before making any suggestions would be to ask what you plan to do with it? If it is cruising that will point in one direction and if racing in another. Unfortunately IMO sailboats have evolved over the last 20 or so years to be pretty exclusively for either racing or cruising. Our boat is what I see as an unusual combination today which is a comfortable cruiser which races at the club level pretty successfully. Contrary to what others have said above I am not a big fan of Catalina boats. For what I like to do there are admittedly worse, but there are also many better so particularly in this market I think you can get a better value with other models than most I have seen from this manufacturer.
Good luck in your research on this topic as the shopping can be half the fun and please feel free to bounce ideas off of me as they should come up.
pglein posted 03-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US)
Brands to avoid? Hunter and MacGregor. Avoid like the plague.
Good entry-level brands? My vote has to be Catalina. Quality boats, durable, fun to sail, and hold their value thanks to a very wide appeal and strong following. Also, there are lots of social opportunities for Catalina owners in terms of owner and racing clubs, etc...
rslsail posted 03-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US)
Caltaina boats sail pretty well, cruise very well, are well thought out and built to last. I have owned 4 sailboats and the 2 Catalinas far outshown the others, a Hunter and a Spirit. People who want to race, generally look down thier noses at a Catalina, but many of those same people have never actually sailed one. I would also say some people prefer sleek sailing machines that are complicated to Sail and want to eek out every once of speed, but my 30 yrs of experience has taught me that the simpler a boat is to use, the more use it will get. If you've got 4 guys looking to sail every week as opposed to a family that doesn't want work too hard, and you've got the budget, go get the J Boat. Also for piece of mind, the Hunter had a one cylinder diesel engine that literally couldn't push the boat against the tide, which was a serious safety concern. I have beat into a 20 knot head wind in 8 ft breaking seas in the Catalina 30 and it was unpleasant but I knew the boat would carry us through and it did, for 12 hours straight.
Folks who want a racer will never be convinced otherwise, but I stand by my statement that for the best combination of crusing comfort and safety, sailing performance and value, you could hardly do better than a Catalina.
Tom W Clark posted 03-26-2010 09:57 AM ET (US)
Catalina - The Bayliner of Sailboats.
They are popular, inexpensive and have gotten a lot of people out on the water to have a good time, and there's nothing wrong with that.
If you want the Whaler of sailboats, why not buy a Whaler sailboat, Squall, SuperCat, or Harpoon?
rslsail posted 03-26-2010 10:13 AM ET (US)
Hi Tom, I agree with you on most things, but really...Bayliner of sailboats? How many 1973 Bayliners do you know of on the water today? Please tell me in your personal experience what troubles you have had with a Catalina sailboat. What well thought out system failed, what engine problems did you encounter, what structural problems did you have and what hardware failed? What design defects have you observed?
kwik_wurk posted 03-26-2010 10:34 AM ET (US)
I would scower, "Good Old Boat" and "Practical Sailor" for some advice.
But the difference between a 30' and a 36' is huge, huge.
If you could tell us what kind of sailing you intend to do (and where) that would change my recommendations quite a bit.
There are a few brands I would stay away from:
MacGregor, usually found with huge outboards on the transom
Hunters (early), early one didn't have quality that they now have
US Yatch, made by US Marine (aka bayliner)
Buccaneer, also made by US Marine (aka bayliner)
Catalina (early), the early catalina's handled like tanks, and had quality similar to hunter (newer models 90's, and up are actually quite nice and handle well)
Any: ferro sailboat, or home made job

Older sailboats I recommend:
Cal 35
Islander 30
Ranger 33
I myself spend most of my time racing sailboats. So I have always leaned toward J/boats, Olson 30's, Farr's. With exception to the J/boats, these aren't great cruisers.
rslsail posted 03-26-2010 10:35 AM ET (US)
A Catalina is a good value, it is not cheap. There is a difference.
skred posted 03-26-2010 10:43 AM ET (US)
Whaler Harpoon 6.2: Needle in Haystack... But, I'll keep looking for one...
pglein posted 03-27-2010 01:54 PM ET (US)
I really wouldn't call Catalina the "Bayliner of sailboats". A more appropriate comparrison might be SeaRay. Decent quality, but mass produced for mass appeal. Bayliners are entry-level boats that sacrifice quality and longevity for affordability. Much similar to a Hunter.
Operaman posted 03-27-2010 08:34 PM ET (US)
I own an older Morgan 30. Check one out if you have the chance.
No mention of Odea yet. Not a big fan, but some of them seem better then Hunter and Catalina. Catalina purchased Morgan Yachts around 1987 or so?
The Bristol you mentioned is great too. Peasron is good too, but do no seem to sail too fast.

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Author	Topic: Sailboats
johnhenry	posted 03-24-2010 02:39 PM ET (US) Not a whaler topic, but I know some of you are sailboat enthusiasts. I am beginning my search for a older 30-36ft. Are there certain manufacturers to steer clear of? I have some knowledge of quality boats but would like some feedback.
ConB	posted 03-24-2010 03:43 PM ET (US) Is there a budget your are trying to stay with in? Remember the sale price is just the price of admission, there is much more to pay for down the road. Just like Whalers, condition of an old boat is very important. Speaking of old boats, there is a magazine titled "Good Old Boat",. Go to the library and read the reviews. "Practical Sailor" has done old boat reviews. Cape Dories are good. Allied built boats are good. Pacific Sea Crafts are good. Hinckleys are good. Con
mgeiger	posted 03-24-2010 04:01 PM ET (US) Budget & Intended use would help. The above boats are good. Add S2, Pearson, C&C, Beneteau & J/Boats (I've owned and raced a 24 and a 29). A survey is a must. Check out some local clubs - see what people have. Offer to crew and check em out. Good luck.
rslsail	posted 03-24-2010 05:00 PM ET (US) Generally, I would say that a 30 ft sailboat and a 36ft sailboat are two completely differnt classes of boat. And cost go up exponetially as the size gets bigger. That being said, a Catalina 30 would be a great entry level boat of which thousands have been made. There are several things that make it a great boat, mostly because of its simplicity of design. Except for some freshening of the interior from time to time, its basically been the same boat since the early 70's through the late 90's. Its features include a large cockpit with plenty of room to lay down and spread out, an open airy cabin that can sleep 7, and is all the space you would ever need for a couple or two. It has powerful diesel engine, h/c water and a propane stove to go with a icebox or refridge. Decent size bathroom with a shower. It has a simple sail plan and sails comfortable in light winds and will keep you safe in the sloppy stuff. These boats hold up well, I owned one that I bought used and sold it after 11 years for what I paid for it, how many boats can you say that about? But just as a means of comparison, a 36 foot Catalina would probably have A/C, two staterooms with queen beds and doors, head with a seperate shower. The boat would probably be 2 feet beamier, probably close to 13 ft, close to 7 ft headroom in the cabin, it would have a larger engine and be significantly heavier. I will conclude by saying the Calalina in a solid well built boat that will hold its value and has thousands of hulls to back up its reliablity. There are plenty of examples from the 70's still on the water and for sale today. This would be a great boat to see if sailing is for you, keeping in mind that this is a boat akin to a Chevy, not a Mercedes. To give you an idea a new Catlina 309 is about 100k, you can easliy find 30 footers costing twice as much if thats the route you wanted to go.
johnhenry	posted 03-24-2010 06:04 PM ET (US) I know there is a dramatic difference in lengths of boats as far as amenities and sailability-if that is a word. I have sailed on and off since I was a kid. I learned to sail and actually took a sailing class as a preteen. We sailed Prams on Biscayne Bay in the Miami area. I spent a lot of time on a 32ft Bristol which was in Bristol condition a decade or so ago. Right now as you all know, the price on boats is extremely depressed, including around here (Chesapeake bay). I can pick up a great sailboat for under 40k, if not a lot lower. I know Catalina's are like a Chevy, my concern is more about picking up a lousy boat than figuring out what is the Whaler of sailboats. I want one with a diesel engine. Are there diesels to stay away from? Most are Yanmars or Perkins that I see around here. Maintenance and time are a given, so are slip cost. I would love to do some cruising as we grow older(still young now-53:) I want my wife and daughter to experience life on a boat. If they don't like sailing I would consider a trawler.
JMARTIN	posted 03-24-2010 07:03 PM ET (US) Too funny, when I bought my Catalina 30, which I loved, the salesman described it as "the Chevy Impala" of sailboats. Mine was tall rigged with pedestal steering which was nice for the light, unpredictable winds we have up here in boating season. I motored at least three times as much as I sailed if I wanted to actually go anywhere. If you do not know if the wife and daughter will enjoy sailing, charter one for a weekend before buying one. When I got married, the sailboat got sold. My wife liked being out on the water and spending the night in a nice quiet anchorage, but only if we motored. Sailing was to her: too much work, too much of an angle (heeled over), too boring most of the time and absolutely terrifying the rest of the time. The plan was to buy a trawler but little things like house payments, kids, dogs, and now college tuition's got in the way. Stupid college tuition, times two, there are some great deals on boats out there. John
jimh	posted 03-24-2010 07:35 PM ET (US) Move this to a sailing website.
Chris J	posted 03-24-2010 07:54 PM ET (US) Hey, Whaler built sailboats once. I own one. It is a bit under 30 feet, though.
jimh	posted 03-24-2010 08:04 PM ET (US) If I could reacclimatize to going 5-MPH at top speed, there are so many great deals on wonderful sailboat now that I don't know which one I'd buy. Sailboats that I used to covet in the 1980's are now bargain priced. Is sailing less expensive than power boating? It looks like it at first glance, but it may not be. Sailing hardware is expensive.
ConB	posted 03-24-2010 09:27 PM ET (US) I was thinking that having a trailerable 18' Whaler had to be less expensive than a 28' sailboat that needed a marina slip in the summer and a boat yard to haul and launch it. Well, then the trailer broke and needed replacing. The next year a main bearing in the engine self destructed. But I can cover a lot more miles in a day, if the waves are not too big. Con
logjam	posted 03-24-2010 10:24 PM ET (US) I think I would be looking at which boats have the characteristics you are looking for to determine which models would be acceptable, or which you would want to pass on. For me I didn't want a fin keel and I did want a skeg protected rudder so that I could beach the boat or go dry on a grid to do maintenance. That meant that I would look for either a full keel or modified fin keel with skeg protected rudder. I ended up with a modified fin keel with skeg protected rudder because of the performance considerations. I know that some of the Islanders had hull blister issues and the company is no longer in business so they would be lower on my list than some of the other builders. About eight years ago a friend of mine asked me to look at the list of boats that he had finally narrowed down to fit his price range. He ended up passing on all of them because of expensive issues. The worst of what we saw had been raced hard on a low budget. Good luck, and I'm not trying to be discouraging, I'm sure there are some great deals out there now...it would be fun to look.
johnhenry	posted 03-25-2010 07:40 AM ET (US) I would never give up my whaler. A sailboat would be an addition to the fleet. Boats that would have gone for over 60-70k a few years ago are now very affordable. I don't want a newer one . There is a glut of affordable well maintained boats on the Chesapeake. BTW jimh. Whalers and sailboats have gone hand in hand for 50 years. As smaller whaler sailboats and as dinghy's for larger boats. I respectfully say that this thread qualifies for the general discussion area.
rslsail	posted 03-25-2010 09:03 AM ET (US) JMARTIN- the best description of sailing you will find anywhere "too boring most of the time and absolutely terrifying the rest of the time." JIMH- in terms of shore power usage and fuel, you can't beat the sailboat, on a 32 ft boat I've used less than 10 gallons of diesel in the past two years, combined. Like everything else, if you are handy and can do the work you're in pretty good shape from a cost perspective if you yard does everything, you pay. Hardware is expensive but it lasts if taken care of. I've know guys who have repowered twin diesels and paid more than what I paid for my boat. Oh yeah, I'm having this discussion here because I own and love my whaler, and a fellow member had a sailboat question.
skred	posted 03-25-2010 09:27 AM ET (US) I am still seriously considering having a Whaler and a sailboat. Not 30 feet perhaps but 18-24 feet perhaps. Here in WI, I see a LOT of very nice Catalinas and similar boats at extremely low prices: $2,600 to $7,000... Very tempting. I had a line on a Whaler Harpoon (6.2?) 18 feet or longer, for $5,000, but when I went to look at it - it already had a deposit on it...
ocean31	posted 03-25-2010 03:19 PM ET (US) As he slowly swims up from the depths, where he has been lurking....... There is a Harpoon on ebay right now, for 2K. Looks pretty good via pictures. I have owned lots of sailboats, rebuilt even more, and I would have to agree, Catalina, for resale, good basic value, simple boats. Take them most anywhere, Just plain good value. There are better sailboats out there, Island Packets, Camper Nicholson, and so on. But Catalina is a excellent starter boat. Or a good boat if you do not want to get into sailing in a major way JSB
David Jenkins	posted 03-25-2010 04:48 PM ET (US) Since we are way past being told that this is the wrong forum to post any of this in, I just can't help but mention that I have a 1980 24’ Hallman Shark that was made in Canada and is in good shape except it needs new electronics. It is on a trailer, has two sets of sails and an outboard motor. I don’t have time to sail it. It is yours for $4500 or best offer. Located in Durham, NC.
aja	posted 03-26-2010 08:39 AM ET (US) We owned a couple of whalers and then sold the 2nd to purchase our Ericson 33 about 8 years ago. After a couple of seasons we missed having no power boat so purchased our OUTRAGE 19II which has been a great boat as well. Having 2 boats is nice but definitely has the downside of more maintenance, logistical headaches, cost, etc. If I were retired I might have time to use these 2 boats to their full extent in our short summer season. However between these toys, my (wonderful) motorcycle, family obligations and this pesky full time job I need to pay for this stuff, each season ends wishing I had more time. For anyone shopping for a new sailboat, my first question before making any suggestions would be to ask what you plan to do with it? If it is cruising that will point in one direction and if racing in another. Unfortunately IMO sailboats have evolved over the last 20 or so years to be pretty exclusively for either racing or cruising. Our boat is what I see as an unusual combination today which is a comfortable cruiser which races at the club level pretty successfully. Contrary to what others have said above I am not a big fan of Catalina boats. For what I like to do there are admittedly worse, but there are also many better so particularly in this market I think you can get a better value with other models than most I have seen from this manufacturer. Good luck in your research on this topic as the shopping can be half the fun and please feel free to bounce ideas off of me as they should come up.
pglein	posted 03-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US) Brands to avoid? Hunter and MacGregor. Avoid like the plague. Good entry-level brands? My vote has to be Catalina. Quality boats, durable, fun to sail, and hold their value thanks to a very wide appeal and strong following. Also, there are lots of social opportunities for Catalina owners in terms of owner and racing clubs, etc...
rslsail	posted 03-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US) Caltaina boats sail pretty well, cruise very well, are well thought out and built to last. I have owned 4 sailboats and the 2 Catalinas far outshown the others, a Hunter and a Spirit. People who want to race, generally look down thier noses at a Catalina, but many of those same people have never actually sailed one. I would also say some people prefer sleek sailing machines that are complicated to Sail and want to eek out every once of speed, but my 30 yrs of experience has taught me that the simpler a boat is to use, the more use it will get. If you've got 4 guys looking to sail every week as opposed to a family that doesn't want work too hard, and you've got the budget, go get the J Boat. Also for piece of mind, the Hunter had a one cylinder diesel engine that literally couldn't push the boat against the tide, which was a serious safety concern. I have beat into a 20 knot head wind in 8 ft breaking seas in the Catalina 30 and it was unpleasant but I knew the boat would carry us through and it did, for 12 hours straight. Folks who want a racer will never be convinced otherwise, but I stand by my statement that for the best combination of crusing comfort and safety, sailing performance and value, you could hardly do better than a Catalina.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-26-2010 09:57 AM ET (US) Catalina - The Bayliner of Sailboats. They are popular, inexpensive and have gotten a lot of people out on the water to have a good time, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want the Whaler of sailboats, why not buy a Whaler sailboat, Squall, SuperCat, or Harpoon?
rslsail	posted 03-26-2010 10:13 AM ET (US) Hi Tom, I agree with you on most things, but really...Bayliner of sailboats? How many 1973 Bayliners do you know of on the water today? Please tell me in your personal experience what troubles you have had with a Catalina sailboat. What well thought out system failed, what engine problems did you encounter, what structural problems did you have and what hardware failed? What design defects have you observed?
kwik_wurk	posted 03-26-2010 10:34 AM ET (US) I would scower, "Good Old Boat" and "Practical Sailor" for some advice. But the difference between a 30' and a 36' is huge, huge. If you could tell us what kind of sailing you intend to do (and where) that would change my recommendations quite a bit. There are a few brands I would stay away from: MacGregor, usually found with huge outboards on the transom Hunters (early), early one didn't have quality that they now have US Yatch, made by US Marine (aka bayliner) Buccaneer, also made by US Marine (aka bayliner) Catalina (early), the early catalina's handled like tanks, and had quality similar to hunter (newer models 90's, and up are actually quite nice and handle well) Any: ferro sailboat, or home made job Older sailboats I recommend: Cal 35 Islander 30 Ranger 33 I myself spend most of my time racing sailboats. So I have always leaned toward J/boats, Olson 30's, Farr's. With exception to the J/boats, these aren't great cruisers.
rslsail	posted 03-26-2010 10:35 AM ET (US) A Catalina is a good value, it is not cheap. There is a difference.
skred	posted 03-26-2010 10:43 AM ET (US) Whaler Harpoon 6.2: Needle in Haystack... But, I'll keep looking for one...
pglein	posted 03-27-2010 01:54 PM ET (US) I really wouldn't call Catalina the "Bayliner of sailboats". A more appropriate comparrison might be SeaRay. Decent quality, but mass produced for mass appeal. Bayliners are entry-level boats that sacrifice quality and longevity for affordability. Much similar to a Hunter.
Operaman	posted 03-27-2010 08:34 PM ET (US) I own an older Morgan 30. Check one out if you have the chance. No mention of Odea yet. Not a big fan, but some of them seem better then Hunter and Catalina. Catalina purchased Morgan Yachts around 1987 or so? The Bristol you mentioned is great too. Peasron is good too, but do no seem to sail too fast.