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Author Topic:   Swimming Safety: NOT IN MARINAS

jimh posted 07-12-2010 01:22 AM ET (US)
Last weekend we were sitting on the boat at the marina on a very hot afternoon. The air temperature was in the 90's, and even with a fresh southwesterly breeze, it was still uncomfortably warm. We decided we needed to go for a swim. We had three options:
--walk 100-yards to a public beach
--get underway in the boat and motor out into the lake
--jump in right off the back of the boat in the crystal clear and 10-foot deep marina waters
Chris--much smarter than I about this topic--said we should never swim in the marina due to risk of electrical shock. We grabbed our towels and drudged down the way to the public beach. I am glad we did, now that I just read this tragic narrative of a death from electrical current leakage from a boat on shore power:
[UPDATE 2021: This article by Kevin Ritz has moved to to a new location on the same website.]
After reading this account of a young boy's death, I don't plan to swim in any marinas again. I am fairly confident my boat is not leaking any 120-VAC into the water, but you can't be certain about the other boats in a marina.
LuckyLady posted 07-12-2010 01:47 AM ET (US)
To think of the twenty-three years of swiming in the Ala Wai Harbor behind our boat! Kids everywhere in the water. Until I read this post, I had no idea of the danger.
Thanks Jim.
Newtauk1 posted 07-12-2010 03:57 AM ET (US)
So salt water is safe?
home Aside posted 07-12-2010 04:15 AM ET (US)
I have been aware of this for years, I use to swim in marinas all the time, until reading about the death of a swimmer, in a marina, attributed to errant electrical current leaking from a boat hooked up to shore power in the marina. The electric current disabled the swimmer to the point where he could not function and he drowned, unfortunately two would be rescuers also perished. I have never swam in a marina since then. I've been amazed at the number of these deaths over the years. Most marinas now do have signs warning not to swim.
On a side note, the local swim club I belong to is closed this week, members, one of whom is my youngest son, complained of "tingling, stinging sensation" in a certain area of the pool. An electrician traced it to a ground wire in one of the pool lights, and determined the whole pool electical system needed updating, he stated it could have been a major catastrophe had it gotten any worse...
I think the marina issue is with boats with shore power systems that are faulty and leaking electricity. Smaller Whalers don't usually have shore power, so there is not the problem of electricity leaking from those boats into the water.....just have to beware of everybody else
Pat
http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/electric_shock_drowning
cgodfrey posted 07-12-2010 04:56 AM ET (US)
In theory, could you have some kind of basic, freestanding alert system that is activated/powered by the current in the water?
home Aside posted 07-12-2010 06:28 AM ET (US)
cgodfrey,
there you go, could be your "Pet Rock" go for it.
Pat
wezie posted 07-12-2010 09:54 AM ET (US)
The initial problem of electrical "leakage" is due to mistakes, shoddy work, and do it yourself electrical work. In the outdoor, wet and metallic environment, the "alarms" will just be another fault in the system.
More electrical appliances on larger boats so owners can sit on them at larger and more electrified docks and go nowhere. Most do not want to pay enough to properly maintain boats or docks. If you want to argue with this, walk the docks first.
As the boats age there is not enough money to "properly" maintain them; much because of the extensive and complex electrical systems.
I believe most still resort to the tried and true practice of occasionally tossing their youngest off the transom.
David Pendleton posted 07-12-2010 10:21 AM ET (US)
Most, if not all, marinas prohibit swimming from the docks, if or no other reason than the insurance and legal hassles.
However real the danger, I still see people doing it all the time.
Here's a well-informed article on the condition and its causes:
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_case_hot_marina/
ronwhaler posted 07-12-2010 10:31 AM ET (US)
Another recent incident involving electricity in the water. Lucky the children are OK.
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12785395
Marsh posted 07-12-2010 12:44 PM ET (US)
I was surprised to get a shock while swimming recently at my own boat dock. My Whaler was on its newly-installed hoist, but the hoist was still in contact with the water. As I approached the stern of the boat, I felt a tingle that got much stronger the closer I got to the boat.
After having an electrician double check, we concluded that stray voltage is "leaking" into the water around my dock via the steel cables on the hoist. The true source, I am convinced, is a fault somewhere between the transformer at the street and my junction box, coming in thru the ground wire. With my multi-tester, I can detect 12-15 volts ac from every ground wire in my home.
Anyhow, the electrician blames the local utility, and the local utility thus far has not been convinced enough of the seriousness to make an inspection.
Meanwhile, I keep the hoist completely out of the water, and unplugged, when not in use. And I refrain from swimming anywhere near the hoist.
Marsh
Waccamaw Whaler posted 07-12-2010 12:50 PM ET (US)
Not only is it unsafe to swim in marinas but also at public boat docks and ramps. Last week as I was docking at a public dock the incoming tide persisted in pushing me away from the dock before I could get a line tied. Kids were jumping in the water behind me and fisherman were sitting on the dock with their legs dangling over the side. To make things worse jet skiers were racing up and down creating unnecessary wakes.
From inside the boat, I finally got the bow tied but within seconds the tide washed me perpendicular to the dock. I used the engine to pull the stern around and got tied but had to keep my eye on the swimmers & fisherman. People really need to understand the dangers of being around boats under power!
Jamber posted 07-12-2010 01:14 PM ET (US)
I recently started to notice some slight electrolysis on my 6 year old boat lift. I called my electrician and sure enough the wire that runs underwater to the outside motor on my boat lift was exposed to the water (PVC came apart at a joint). He tested it and said it was not at a dangerous level, but I still spent the $300 to have him rewire it and inspect every connection. I figured I can't be too safe, especially with the family getting in and out of kayaks from the dock. I have been in the canal to adjust the lift a few times with the electric leak and operating the lift (very lucky I was not zapped). After learning about dangers from my electrician, never again! I have two circuit breaks that I turn off (one at the lift and one in my garage) when I am not using the lift and I will adjust it from the boat from now on.
dfmcintyre posted 07-12-2010 07:24 PM ET (US)
I was not going to add to this important post, but the recent few posts regarding boat lifts triggered a 35 year old memory.
A friend of my folks almost died when the 4 wheeled beach trailer became fully energized.
Without warning....
He had a 17' Super Sport on the beach. Launched it one day, and per his routine, end of the day, early evening he idled it back into the slings and hopped out, still holding to one of the four upright poles. He recalled barely being able to let go, realized that he could not even get back into the boat. Almost didn't make it the 30 feet back to shore.
And recently (withing the past two or three years) a young adult whose parents I know, jumped into our local Black River during a party night down on the docks and could not make it back due to stray current, and drowned.
Be safe.
Don
elaelap posted 07-12-2010 08:37 PM ET (US)
I used to swim off my sailboat all the time when I was living aboard her down in Marina del Rey (W. Los Angeles) ...until I watched as a neighbor pumped out his holding tank at his slip in the marina late one night. I foolishly never gave a moment's thought to potential electrical hazards.
In 1998 a young girl was electrocuted while swimming in the Lake Sonoma marina near my home.
Tony
conch posted 07-13-2010 12:08 PM ET (US)
My neighbor added an inverter to his trawler which already had a gen set.He had wired the inverter 110v output to the shore power input side of his transfer switch.This arrangement worked until one afternoon birthday party while anchored in the bay.
All of the children who were very wet and squirting each other with the anchor washdown hose began crying and screaming,we parents were 40 feet away sitting in the stern.
The unused male prongs of the shorepower inlet on the cabin sidewall were now at 110v from being back fed. Even with the inlet cover on ,the water from the hose spraying had the whole wet bow deck electrified.
Fortunately no one died.But a day I will not forget.
Chuck
jayh posted 07-14-2010 12:08 PM ET (US)
"I don't like to swim, really. You know what swimming is to me? Staying alive when I'm in the water."
"Barely."
-- Paul Stookey of "Peter, Paul, & Mary"
kglinz posted 07-14-2010 12:14 PM ET (US)
I've been told that it is far more dangerous to swim in a freshwater marina than a saltwater marina. Something about saltwater being a better conductor than a human body, but freshwater being less of a conductor than a body.
David Pendleton posted 07-14-2010 12:58 PM ET (US)
Quoted from the link I provided above:

quote:
Even with a poor ground, a boat in salt water won't develop enough potential to cause a problem for a swimmer, making this an unheard of phenomenon with boats in the ocean. However, lakes are a different story. Fresh water is a very poor conductor by comparison, so an ungrounded fault will raise the potential on the hull as it attempts to enter the water. A swimmer represents a much lower resistance fault path, even if only in the electric field and not touching anything.
Sheila posted 07-14-2010 10:29 PM ET (US)
Swimming in a marina always seemed like a bad idea to me.
On Independence Day, we went out in the afternoon for a cruise with Rich's Beautiful and Talented Daughter and her brand-new fiance.
On our way back in, as we were making our way through the main channel (which was crowded with people in dinks, kayaks and small boats engaged in water fights), Rich came to a stop.
I looked up and saw a woman just treading water in the channel, about 10 feet in front of our bow. When Rich suggested to her that perhaps she hadn't chosen a great swimming spot, she told him she'd been doing it for years.
He'd been stopped for a minute before she turned and looked in our direction. I don't believe she knew we were there before she looked.
I hailed the Harbor Patrol. Guess I'm a meanie.
jtms posted 07-19-2010 03:37 PM ET (US)
I understand the obvious about swimming in marinas, but are saltwater marinas not affected by the electrical current we are discussing? I live in a condo at a marina and I don't swim in the marina but my dog does almost daily. My dog swims in an area that doesn't have any boat traffic, but there are quite a number of boats docked on the other side of the dock. Should I be concerned?
dgoodhue posted 07-19-2010 04:13 PM ET (US)
Until you post this article, I never thought about the danger of being electrocuted and drowning.
I was electrocuted in a pool last fall at a resort. It was not a fun feeling. It was in an area that wasn't over my head. I assume the electricity was coming from the under water light. It was in area of about 6 feet from that light that was water was electrified.
I never even though about how I my body would react if I was swimming.
Bella con23 posted 07-19-2010 04:25 PM ET (US)
jtms - I was working on my boat a couple of years back when my 100 lb. golden retriever slipped and fell in the water between the boat and the dock.
This dog hates the water and in fact he does not swim well at all. We always made sure he wore a vest for that reason.
When he fell in, I thought that he would fight tooth and nail to get himself out of water by any means. Instead all he did was float and look at me. I reach over and grabbed the straps on the vest and removed him from the water. He was a little slow to recover, but was back to himself in minutes.
I believe this could have gone bad real quick in different conditions.
Joe
stagalv posted 07-19-2010 05:36 PM ET (US)
[What] about [the risk of electical shock from swimming in a marine which is in] saltwater? Does anyone have a comment on this?
David Pendleton posted 07-19-2010 06:38 PM ET (US)
Yes, read the entire thread.
elaelap posted 07-20-2010 09:20 AM ET (US)
"I was electrocuted in a pool last fall at a resort."
Thus proving unequivocally that there IS life after death, dgoodhue, and welcome back. ;-)
Tony
ConB posted 08-18-2011 08:45 AM ET (US)
Sadly here is an other reminder of what can happen.
In our younger days we never thought about electrical hazards when swimming around docks.
http://record-eagle.com/local/x753102740/Death-blamed-partly-on-shock
Con
poker13 posted 08-18-2011 09:01 AM ET (US)
Thanks for posting this. I had no idea. When I was young I used to see people at marinas donning fins, masks and snorkels to go scrape algae and barnacles off their boat hulls in the water.
contender posted 08-18-2011 09:33 AM ET (US)
I remember seeing signs in the marina and boat ramps for the no swimming here in South Florida. [Implies that the prohibition was perhaps due to concern about] insurance. I know every place is different. Why would you want to swim in a marina next to all boats, and potential crap in the water oil, gas, sewage and other garbage floating around.
lizard posted 08-18-2011 06:17 PM ET (US)
My understanding is that [drownings from electrocution] occur predominantly in fresh water marina situations but have also occurred in salt water or estuary based marinas as well. There seem to be several deaths each year from this.
logjam posted 08-27-2011 06:55 AM ET (US)
I happened to read an insurance investigators manual which showed a diagram depicting the behavior of electricity in fresh water and saltwater. I tried without success to find a copy to refresh my memory. One diagram showed the electricity going straight down and the other showed the electricity fanning out around the source. Since saltwater is a better conductor I believe it is the one that would go straight to ground and fresh water would fan out more. Either one would ruin your day.
Not only could shore power be a danger but any dive operations around a vessel with an operating gen set.
For 15 years I conducted underwater searches (mostly searching for bodies) in terrible harbors all over Alaska without giving electricity more than a cursory thought. Now I cringe at the thought of what I did.
You would not believe what these harbors contain, some real man traps and bad visibility, especially with runoff from heavy rain and an ebbing tide.
wezie posted 08-27-2011 08:20 AM ET (US)
Marsh,
You might consider another electrician. You know of the leak and if it is ignored, someone else may have an encounter.
Might consider disconnecting your dock.
Good Luck!
MarthaB posted 08-28-2011 10:21 AM ET (US)
Recent Traverse City Record Eagle article, additional info about the Traverse City Marina,
http://record-eagle.com/local/x890682139/ Previous-marina-incidents-may-pose-problems .
jimh posted 08-28-2011 11:01 AM ET (US)
There has been a general theme in the discussion of electrical faults causing shock hazards for swimmers in marinas that tends to point to badly wired boats in the marinas as the likely fault source. In the Traverse City Marina case we have the electrical distribution wiring of the marina as the probable source, and with this latest anecdote, we have a probability of prior knowledge of the fault's existence by the marina operator. These are truly very unfortunate circumstances for all involved.
Chriscz posted 08-28-2011 11:25 AM ET (US)
I'm coming at this [question of risk of electrical shock in freshwater versus saltwater] as a fisheries biologist, not an electrical engineer or otherwise, however, on the [question] of freshwater versus saltwater, the risk of electrocution from stray current is greatly reduced in saltwater. Other folks (above) have clarified this as well. Essentially the higher amount of salts in saltwater--dissolved ions--provide much greater conductivity than the salts in our tissues and the current chooses the path of least resistance and goes around the body. This is not the case in fresh water where our tissues are more conductive than the surrounding freshwater, hence the increased danger. This why electro-shocking, a technique used to stun fish for enumeration and other data collection, cannot be effectively employed in marine or estuarine waters. That is not to say that in saltwater you cannot create a dangerous situation where the current still goes through you, especially in the half-in half-out-of-the water conditions.
MarthaB posted 08-29-2011 07:44 PM ET (US)
http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=657333#.TlwiunO4ucc
This is getting interesting.
jimh posted 08-29-2011 08:15 PM ET (US)
I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Traverse City. They'll be spending a lot of money in the litigation of this incident. They should have spent their money on NO SWIMING signs and a ground-fault detector.
MarthaB posted 08-29-2011 08:52 PM ET (US)
They say there are "No Swimming" signs. in another lawsuit, the verdict held the marina/municipality responsible and awarded the plaintiff $$$ even though there were "No Swimming" signs.
contender posted 08-29-2011 09:39 PM ET (US)
jimH: I agree with you, but it just does not matter, there could have been no swimming signs, a locked gate with razor wire on top, electrified, and with a guard dog behind the fence, but some attorney will state the person did not know he could not swim there. He will make some stupid case against the marina, because they are the ones with the cash, They will pick a jury of sheep who will be lead down a crooked path that makes no sense rhyme or reason, and the marina will have to pay. Their insurance rates will go up through the roof and in today's economy will end up closing...Do you really think in this day and age anyone is going to take responsibility for ones own actions...

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Author	Topic: Swimming Safety: NOT IN MARINAS
jimh	posted 07-12-2010 01:22 AM ET (US) Last weekend we were sitting on the boat at the marina on a very hot afternoon. The air temperature was in the 90's, and even with a fresh southwesterly breeze, it was still uncomfortably warm. We decided we needed to go for a swim. We had three options: --walk 100-yards to a public beach --get underway in the boat and motor out into the lake --jump in right off the back of the boat in the crystal clear and 10-foot deep marina waters Chris--much smarter than I about this topic--said we should never swim in the marina due to risk of electrical shock. We grabbed our towels and drudged down the way to the public beach. I am glad we did, now that I just read this tragic narrative of a death from electrical current leakage from a boat on shore power: [UPDATE 2021: This article by Kevin Ritz has moved to to a new location on the same website.] After reading this account of a young boy's death, I don't plan to swim in any marinas again. I am fairly confident my boat is not leaking any 120-VAC into the water, but you can't be certain about the other boats in a marina.
LuckyLady	posted 07-12-2010 01:47 AM ET (US) To think of the twenty-three years of swiming in the Ala Wai Harbor behind our boat! Kids everywhere in the water. Until I read this post, I had no idea of the danger. Thanks Jim.
Newtauk1	posted 07-12-2010 03:57 AM ET (US) So salt water is safe?
home Aside	posted 07-12-2010 04:15 AM ET (US) I have been aware of this for years, I use to swim in marinas all the time, until reading about the death of a swimmer, in a marina, attributed to errant electrical current leaking from a boat hooked up to shore power in the marina. The electric current disabled the swimmer to the point where he could not function and he drowned, unfortunately two would be rescuers also perished. I have never swam in a marina since then. I've been amazed at the number of these deaths over the years. Most marinas now do have signs warning not to swim. On a side note, the local swim club I belong to is closed this week, members, one of whom is my youngest son, complained of "tingling, stinging sensation" in a certain area of the pool. An electrician traced it to a ground wire in one of the pool lights, and determined the whole pool electical system needed updating, he stated it could have been a major catastrophe had it gotten any worse... I think the marina issue is with boats with shore power systems that are faulty and leaking electricity. Smaller Whalers don't usually have shore power, so there is not the problem of electricity leaking from those boats into the water.....just have to beware of everybody else Pat http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/electric_shock_drowning
cgodfrey	posted 07-12-2010 04:56 AM ET (US) In theory, could you have some kind of basic, freestanding alert system that is activated/powered by the current in the water?
home Aside	posted 07-12-2010 06:28 AM ET (US) cgodfrey, there you go, could be your "Pet Rock" go for it. Pat
wezie	posted 07-12-2010 09:54 AM ET (US) The initial problem of electrical "leakage" is due to mistakes, shoddy work, and do it yourself electrical work. In the outdoor, wet and metallic environment, the "alarms" will just be another fault in the system. More electrical appliances on larger boats so owners can sit on them at larger and more electrified docks and go nowhere. Most do not want to pay enough to properly maintain boats or docks. If you want to argue with this, walk the docks first. As the boats age there is not enough money to "properly" maintain them; much because of the extensive and complex electrical systems. I believe most still resort to the tried and true practice of occasionally tossing their youngest off the transom.
David Pendleton	posted 07-12-2010 10:21 AM ET (US) Most, if not all, marinas prohibit swimming from the docks, if or no other reason than the insurance and legal hassles. However real the danger, I still see people doing it all the time. Here's a well-informed article on the condition and its causes: http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_case_hot_marina/
ronwhaler	posted 07-12-2010 10:31 AM ET (US) Another recent incident involving electricity in the water. Lucky the children are OK. http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12785395
Marsh	posted 07-12-2010 12:44 PM ET (US) I was surprised to get a shock while swimming recently at my own boat dock. My Whaler was on its newly-installed hoist, but the hoist was still in contact with the water. As I approached the stern of the boat, I felt a tingle that got much stronger the closer I got to the boat. After having an electrician double check, we concluded that stray voltage is "leaking" into the water around my dock via the steel cables on the hoist. The true source, I am convinced, is a fault somewhere between the transformer at the street and my junction box, coming in thru the ground wire. With my multi-tester, I can detect 12-15 volts ac from every ground wire in my home. Anyhow, the electrician blames the local utility, and the local utility thus far has not been convinced enough of the seriousness to make an inspection. Meanwhile, I keep the hoist completely out of the water, and unplugged, when not in use. And I refrain from swimming anywhere near the hoist. Marsh
Waccamaw Whaler	posted 07-12-2010 12:50 PM ET (US) Not only is it unsafe to swim in marinas but also at public boat docks and ramps. Last week as I was docking at a public dock the incoming tide persisted in pushing me away from the dock before I could get a line tied. Kids were jumping in the water behind me and fisherman were sitting on the dock with their legs dangling over the side. To make things worse jet skiers were racing up and down creating unnecessary wakes. From inside the boat, I finally got the bow tied but within seconds the tide washed me perpendicular to the dock. I used the engine to pull the stern around and got tied but had to keep my eye on the swimmers & fisherman. People really need to understand the dangers of being around boats under power!
Jamber	posted 07-12-2010 01:14 PM ET (US) I recently started to notice some slight electrolysis on my 6 year old boat lift. I called my electrician and sure enough the wire that runs underwater to the outside motor on my boat lift was exposed to the water (PVC came apart at a joint). He tested it and said it was not at a dangerous level, but I still spent the $300 to have him rewire it and inspect every connection. I figured I can't be too safe, especially with the family getting in and out of kayaks from the dock. I have been in the canal to adjust the lift a few times with the electric leak and operating the lift (very lucky I was not zapped). After learning about dangers from my electrician, never again! I have two circuit breaks that I turn off (one at the lift and one in my garage) when I am not using the lift and I will adjust it from the boat from now on.
dfmcintyre	posted 07-12-2010 07:24 PM ET (US) I was not going to add to this important post, but the recent few posts regarding boat lifts triggered a 35 year old memory. A friend of my folks almost died when the 4 wheeled beach trailer became fully energized. Without warning.... He had a 17' Super Sport on the beach. Launched it one day, and per his routine, end of the day, early evening he idled it back into the slings and hopped out, still holding to one of the four upright poles. He recalled barely being able to let go, realized that he could not even get back into the boat. Almost didn't make it the 30 feet back to shore. And recently (withing the past two or three years) a young adult whose parents I know, jumped into our local Black River during a party night down on the docks and could not make it back due to stray current, and drowned. Be safe. Don
elaelap	posted 07-12-2010 08:37 PM ET (US) I used to swim off my sailboat all the time when I was living aboard her down in Marina del Rey (W. Los Angeles) ...until I watched as a neighbor pumped out his holding tank at his slip in the marina late one night. I foolishly never gave a moment's thought to potential electrical hazards. In 1998 a young girl was electrocuted while swimming in the Lake Sonoma marina near my home. Tony
conch	posted 07-13-2010 12:08 PM ET (US) My neighbor added an inverter to his trawler which already had a gen set.He had wired the inverter 110v output to the shore power input side of his transfer switch.This arrangement worked until one afternoon birthday party while anchored in the bay. All of the children who were very wet and squirting each other with the anchor washdown hose began crying and screaming,we parents were 40 feet away sitting in the stern. The unused male prongs of the shorepower inlet on the cabin sidewall were now at 110v from being back fed. Even with the inlet cover on ,the water from the hose spraying had the whole wet bow deck electrified. Fortunately no one died.But a day I will not forget. Chuck
jayh	posted 07-14-2010 12:08 PM ET (US) "I don't like to swim, really. You know what swimming is to me? Staying alive when I'm in the water." "Barely." -- Paul Stookey of "Peter, Paul, & Mary"
kglinz	posted 07-14-2010 12:14 PM ET (US) I've been told that it is far more dangerous to swim in a freshwater marina than a saltwater marina. Something about saltwater being a better conductor than a human body, but freshwater being less of a conductor than a body.
David Pendleton	posted 07-14-2010 12:58 PM ET (US) Quoted from the link I provided above: quote: Even with a poor ground, a boat in salt water won't develop enough potential to cause a problem for a swimmer, making this an unheard of phenomenon with boats in the ocean. However, lakes are a different story. Fresh water is a very poor conductor by comparison, so an ungrounded fault will raise the potential on the hull as it attempts to enter the water. A swimmer represents a much lower resistance fault path, even if only in the electric field and not touching anything.
Sheila	posted 07-14-2010 10:29 PM ET (US) Swimming in a marina always seemed like a bad idea to me. On Independence Day, we went out in the afternoon for a cruise with Rich's Beautiful and Talented Daughter and her brand-new fiance. On our way back in, as we were making our way through the main channel (which was crowded with people in dinks, kayaks and small boats engaged in water fights), Rich came to a stop. I looked up and saw a woman just treading water in the channel, about 10 feet in front of our bow. When Rich suggested to her that perhaps she hadn't chosen a great swimming spot, she told him she'd been doing it for years. He'd been stopped for a minute before she turned and looked in our direction. I don't believe she knew we were there before she looked. I hailed the Harbor Patrol. Guess I'm a meanie.
jtms	posted 07-19-2010 03:37 PM ET (US) I understand the obvious about swimming in marinas, but are saltwater marinas not affected by the electrical current we are discussing? I live in a condo at a marina and I don't swim in the marina but my dog does almost daily. My dog swims in an area that doesn't have any boat traffic, but there are quite a number of boats docked on the other side of the dock. Should I be concerned?
dgoodhue	posted 07-19-2010 04:13 PM ET (US) Until you post this article, I never thought about the danger of being electrocuted and drowning. I was electrocuted in a pool last fall at a resort. It was not a fun feeling. It was in an area that wasn't over my head. I assume the electricity was coming from the under water light. It was in area of about 6 feet from that light that was water was electrified. I never even though about how I my body would react if I was swimming.
Bella con23	posted 07-19-2010 04:25 PM ET (US) jtms - I was working on my boat a couple of years back when my 100 lb. golden retriever slipped and fell in the water between the boat and the dock. This dog hates the water and in fact he does not swim well at all. We always made sure he wore a vest for that reason. When he fell in, I thought that he would fight tooth and nail to get himself out of water by any means. Instead all he did was float and look at me. I reach over and grabbed the straps on the vest and removed him from the water. He was a little slow to recover, but was back to himself in minutes. I believe this could have gone bad real quick in different conditions. Joe
stagalv	posted 07-19-2010 05:36 PM ET (US) [What] about [the risk of electical shock from swimming in a marine which is in] saltwater? Does anyone have a comment on this?
David Pendleton	posted 07-19-2010 06:38 PM ET (US) Yes, read the entire thread.
elaelap	posted 07-20-2010 09:20 AM ET (US) "I was electrocuted in a pool last fall at a resort." Thus proving unequivocally that there IS life after death, dgoodhue, and welcome back. ;-) Tony
ConB	posted 08-18-2011 08:45 AM ET (US) Sadly here is an other reminder of what can happen. In our younger days we never thought about electrical hazards when swimming around docks. http://record-eagle.com/local/x753102740/Death-blamed-partly-on-shock Con
poker13	posted 08-18-2011 09:01 AM ET (US) Thanks for posting this. I had no idea. When I was young I used to see people at marinas donning fins, masks and snorkels to go scrape algae and barnacles off their boat hulls in the water.
contender	posted 08-18-2011 09:33 AM ET (US) I remember seeing signs in the marina and boat ramps for the no swimming here in South Florida. [Implies that the prohibition was perhaps due to concern about] insurance. I know every place is different. Why would you want to swim in a marina next to all boats, and potential crap in the water oil, gas, sewage and other garbage floating around.
lizard	posted 08-18-2011 06:17 PM ET (US) My understanding is that [drownings from electrocution] occur predominantly in fresh water marina situations but have also occurred in salt water or estuary based marinas as well. There seem to be several deaths each year from this.
logjam	posted 08-27-2011 06:55 AM ET (US) I happened to read an insurance investigators manual which showed a diagram depicting the behavior of electricity in fresh water and saltwater. I tried without success to find a copy to refresh my memory. One diagram showed the electricity going straight down and the other showed the electricity fanning out around the source. Since saltwater is a better conductor I believe it is the one that would go straight to ground and fresh water would fan out more. Either one would ruin your day. Not only could shore power be a danger but any dive operations around a vessel with an operating gen set. For 15 years I conducted underwater searches (mostly searching for bodies) in terrible harbors all over Alaska without giving electricity more than a cursory thought. Now I cringe at the thought of what I did. You would not believe what these harbors contain, some real man traps and bad visibility, especially with runoff from heavy rain and an ebbing tide.
wezie	posted 08-27-2011 08:20 AM ET (US) Marsh, You might consider another electrician. You know of the leak and if it is ignored, someone else may have an encounter. Might consider disconnecting your dock. Good Luck!
MarthaB	posted 08-28-2011 10:21 AM ET (US) Recent Traverse City Record Eagle article, additional info about the Traverse City Marina, http://record-eagle.com/local/x890682139/ Previous-marina-incidents-may-pose-problems .
jimh	posted 08-28-2011 11:01 AM ET (US) There has been a general theme in the discussion of electrical faults causing shock hazards for swimmers in marinas that tends to point to badly wired boats in the marinas as the likely fault source. In the Traverse City Marina case we have the electrical distribution wiring of the marina as the probable source, and with this latest anecdote, we have a probability of prior knowledge of the fault's existence by the marina operator. These are truly very unfortunate circumstances for all involved.
Chriscz	posted 08-28-2011 11:25 AM ET (US) I'm coming at this [question of risk of electrical shock in freshwater versus saltwater] as a fisheries biologist, not an electrical engineer or otherwise, however, on the [question] of freshwater versus saltwater, the risk of electrocution from stray current is greatly reduced in saltwater. Other folks (above) have clarified this as well. Essentially the higher amount of salts in saltwater--dissolved ions--provide much greater conductivity than the salts in our tissues and the current chooses the path of least resistance and goes around the body. This is not the case in fresh water where our tissues are more conductive than the surrounding freshwater, hence the increased danger. This why electro-shocking, a technique used to stun fish for enumeration and other data collection, cannot be effectively employed in marine or estuarine waters. That is not to say that in saltwater you cannot create a dangerous situation where the current still goes through you, especially in the half-in half-out-of-the water conditions.
MarthaB	posted 08-29-2011 07:44 PM ET (US) http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=657333#.TlwiunO4ucc This is getting interesting.
jimh	posted 08-29-2011 08:15 PM ET (US) I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Traverse City. They'll be spending a lot of money in the litigation of this incident. They should have spent their money on NO SWIMING signs and a ground-fault detector.
MarthaB	posted 08-29-2011 08:52 PM ET (US) They say there are "No Swimming" signs. in another lawsuit, the verdict held the marina/municipality responsible and awarded the plaintiff $$$ even though there were "No Swimming" signs.
contender	posted 08-29-2011 09:39 PM ET (US) jimH: I agree with you, but it just does not matter, there could have been no swimming signs, a locked gate with razor wire on top, electrified, and with a guard dog behind the fence, but some attorney will state the person did not know he could not swim there. He will make some stupid case against the marina, because they are the ones with the cash, They will pick a jury of sheep who will be lead down a crooked path that makes no sense rhyme or reason, and the marina will have to pay. Their insurance rates will go up through the roof and in today's economy will end up closing...Do you really think in this day and age anyone is going to take responsibility for ones own actions...