posted 01-17-2011 08:21 AM ET (US)            

As long as you can get to them in time....

I carry 4 inflatables and 4 conventional PFD's on the Montauk. Inflatables are worn at all times by all hands when water temperatures are below 60, save for when we are wearing wetsuits (which do the same thing). The conventional PFD's are just there all the time "just because", and to meet inspection regulations for when we are not wearing the inflatables.

Inflatables come in several flavors, I'd highly suggest the offshore sailing style, with the built in lift-harness. Try getting an unconcious person back into a boat sometime without a harness.

Real-Life example: We were anchored on a wreck in NJ, diving. Another pair of boats were bottom fishing. Not sure how, but the (sole) occupant of one of the other two boats went overboard into the drink. We heard yelling and the other fishing boat went immediately to assist. Since we had divers in decompression on our anchor line, we were less than enthusiastic about cutting off and immediately assisting. The other boat, a 20-ish foot class center console, had the casualty close aboard, but COULD NOT get the guy out of the water. Thru the binocs, =we could see that this was getting desperate, and as the divers all were coming aboard by this point, we went to assist. In order to get the guy out of the water, we needed to put a diver INTO the water to tie a ling around him, and then boarded him by dragging him up over the gunwale, because *he could not climb the ladder because he was past self-assistance*. And remember that we have a dive-ladder that guys with double 120's climb regularly, one that extends 6 feet underwater, made from 2 inch diameter stainless steel pipe.

Bottom line... floating om the surface is one thing. Getting back aboard is another. Wear a top quality offshore inflatable with a harness and you'll never worry about it inflating, and will be able to be dragged up over the rail if needed. The poor guy cited above had a boat right next to him, yet he nearly died *in the water* of hypothermia because they simply could not geet him back aboard again. if we had not been there, he would have been dead.

One thing that I've pointed oput to a few friends who own Montauks: I've seen PFD's locked in center consoles, with the kek to unlock the console on the same keyring as the ignition key. They do this to keep the console dorrs from flopping open in chop (which they do). If you don't wear the PFD's, and ever needed them, you would need to shut down the boat to get to the PFD's, which is not a good plan. PFD's need to be accessable *right now* while the boat is still being run/ Shut these boats down and they will drift beam to the seas, where they are very vulnerable to being boarded by a wave and capsized.

PFD advice: Buy the best ones available. Wear them.

Dave

posted 01-17-2011 10:13 AM ET (US)            

When was the last time we tested/serviced out inflatables??

Some officers will require every person to put one on in order to verify requirements.

Don't forget the throwable!!!

posted 01-17-2011 07:12 PM ET (US)            

Every inflatable vest I have ever bought came with the notation that the vest must be worn at all times underway, to be considered a countable vest (bad grammar but you get the point).

posted 01-17-2011 08:50 PM ET (US)            

Inflatables are class V, I think. You do not have to ware it if you have plenty of the old fashion PFDs.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&catalogId=10001& page=Personal-Flotation-Devices

posted 01-17-2011 09:35 PM ET (US)            

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfdselection.asp

The USCG recognizes inflatable PFD's in each category. The basic cheapies sold at the mass market places are likely all Class III.

A SOLAS / USCG Class I PFD will have two inflatable chambers, and can be stowed for use just like any other PFD.

Note that state requirements may vary, often not to the benefit of any real safety concern.

Dave

posted 01-17-2011 09:43 PM ET (US)            

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr; sid=6cdbd9cd2d32a570459c25c78fb5e5b6;rgn=div8;view=text;node=33%3A2.0.1. 8.41.2.209.4;idno=33;cc=ecfr \

An inflatable PDF is [typically] classified as a "TYPE V" PDF. The regulations say:

quote:

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33 CFR

§ 175.17 Exemptions.

(a) A Type V PFD may be carried in lieu of any PFD required under §175.15, provided:

(1) The approval label on the Type V PFD indicates that the device is approved:

(i) For the activity in which the vessel is being used; or

(ii) As a substitute for a PFD of the Type required on the vessel in use;

(2) The PFD is used in accordance with any requirements on the approval label; and

(3) The PFD is used in accordance with requirements in its owner's manual, if the approval label makes reference to such a manual.

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I don't see anywhere that explicitly says you have to be wearing the Type V device. I suppose you might be able to infer that from the requirement that the Type V device "...is used in accordance with any requirements on the label...." The label may require it to be worn to be used.

posted 01-17-2011 09:48 PM ET (US)            

"“Personal flotation device” means a device that is approved by the Commandant under 46 CFR Part 160."

posted 01-17-2011 10:07 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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TITLE 46 - SHIPPING

CHAPTER I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER Q - EQUIPMENT, CONSTRUCTION, AND MATERIALS: SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVAL

PART 160 - LIFESAVING EQUIPMENT

160.076 - 5 - Definitions.

(exerpt)

PFD means personal flotation device as defined in 33 CFR 175.13.

PFD Approval Type means the Type designation assigned by the Commandant, as documented in the approval certificate for the PFD, based primarily on the in-water performance and serviceability of the PFD.

(end excerpt)

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Cf.: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/160-5-definitions-19858640

posted 01-19-2011 08:51 AM ET (US)            

I believe the specific requirement Jim is asking about is found in 46 C.F.R. 160.076-9 which provides in part as follows:

quote:

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A conditionally approved inflatable PFD is categorized as a Type V PFD and may be used to meet the Coast Guard PFD carriage requirements of 33 CFR part 175 only if the PFD is used in accordance with any requirements on the approval label. PFDs marked ``Approved only when worn'' must be worn whenever the vessel is underway and the intended wearer is not within an enclosed space if the PFD is intended to be used to satisfy the requirements of 33 CFR part 175. Note: Additional approved PFDs may be needed to satisfy the requirements of 33 CFR part 175 if ``Approved only when worn'' PFDs are not worn.

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posted 01-19-2011 02:52 PM ET (US)            

I carry both conventional and inflatable. 99% of the time I am in the inflatable. If it is really snotty out, I wear the conventional.

John

posted 01-19-2011 09:19 PM ET (US)            

Found in Chapter 2 on page Page 2-12

Type V PFDs. A Type V is also called a SPECIAL USE DEVICE. They are intended for special activities and may be carried instead of another PFD only if used according to the approval conditions on its label. The performance of these devices is marked on their label. If the label says the PFD is "approved only when worn", the PFD must be worn, except for persons in enclosed spaces, and used in accordance with the approval label.

If a person elects to wear their PFD, with a "REQUIRED TO BE WORN" notation, only at selected times, they must have another Type I, II or III aboard to meet the boat's PFD count requirement. Some Type Vs don't count if it's not worn, or if it is worn for other than the labeled use.

posted 01-20-2011 04:42 AM ET (US)            

PFD Requirements
To meet USCG Vessel requirements, PFDs must be US Coast Guard approved and in "good and serviceable" condition. They should be the appropriate size for each person wearing them, must be readily accessible, and must be removed from any plastic or other wrapping. Obviously, they should not be stored in locked or remote lockers. Other gear should not be stored on top of PFDs. All throwable devices must be instantly available. Boats less than 16 feet in length (including canoes and kayaks of any length) must carry at least one Type I, II, III, or V PFD for each person on board.

posted 01-20-2011 12:27 PM ET (US)            

I had a cop give me a ticket for having my GPS attached to the windshield of my truck. The law that used to prohibit that had been repealed a year prior.

I pointed that out to the trooper, and offered to show him the update from the state showing this. His comment, "I'm the one with the badge, the law is what I say it is."

I showed up in court and, fortunately, the judge did look up the law, apologized to me and admonished the trooper.

But it is a great example of how so-called authorities often quote fictitious or out of date laws.

posted 01-20-2011 02:50 PM ET (US)            

From the label:
Recreational Inflatable Type III PFD
WARNING: You must inflate this PFD to float.
USCG Approved for use only on recreational boats by persons at least 16 years of age.

posted 01-20-2011 04:04 PM ET (US)            

Plotman says:

quote:

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"...if you are in navigable waters with federal jurisdiction, federal law trumps state law."

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posted 01-20-2011 04:11 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

It apparently need not be worn to be counted as safety equipment or a PDF.

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No, that is an illogical (and erroneous) conclusion.

posted 01-20-2011 04:38 PM ET (US)            

An inflatable PFD that is certified as Type I, II, or III does not need to be worn to be counted toward required safety equipment. An inflatable PFD which has received a conditional Type V approval generally must be worn to be counted. This all explained in the regulations I previously cited. See: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr& sid=0e4aff002ff8603979e55f8aec1b889f&rgn=div6&view=text&node=46:6.0.1.2. 2.51&idno=46 . The most relevant sections are 46 C.F.R. 160.076-7 and 160.076-9.

posted 01-20-2011 04:58 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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Prior to Coast Guard–approved inflatables, you could determine a PFD's type by sight: Type IIIs looked like vests or float coats, Type IVs were horseshoes, rings, or cushions, and so forth. The introduction of inflatables changed everything. Inflatables are given a Coast Guard type, just like non–inflatables, but they are also given a performance type and a designation as to whether they have to be worn to be counted in the vessel's life jacket inventory. What this means is that you can't simply say that an inflatable is a Type III and equate its characteristics to the Type III that you are familiar with. Here are some pointers on how inflatables are classified:
Inflatables with harnesses are, by default, Type V life jackets with instructions that you should be familiar with when wearing a harness. Their performance type is generally Type III or Type II.

Belt pack inflatables are Type V life jackets with Type III performance because you have to slip the inflated chamber over your head.

High buoyancy inflatables (150 N or 33 lbs of buoyancy) have a Type III performance rating if they are manually–activated with a ripcord, and a Type II performance rating if they are water–activated. Both products perform exactly alike once they're inflated, since the bladder and the rest of the life jacket are identical except for the inflator. Some types, like the Offshore Life Jackets (sail and power) can be converted from automatic or manual by a simple change to their Secumar 4001 1F inflator.

The Coast Guard requires that water–activated "automatic" inflatables with non–1F inflators have to be worn to be counted in the vessel's inventory of life jackets. The most recent models with 1F inflators, so–called "stowables", don't have to be worn to be counted as inventory. However, this misses the point of inflatable PFDs, which are so comfortable that you'll wear them while on the water.

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posted 01-20-2011 05:11 PM ET (US)            

Type V PFDs have "conditional approval", which requires a label affixed to the PFD setting for the specific conditions which must be met for the PFD to be counted as required safety equipment. If those conditions are not met, the PFD does not count toward the safety equipment requirements. There are Type V PFDs which are not inflatable PFDs. Each Type V PFD has its own conditions for use which must be set forth on a label affixed to the PFD. With regard to inflatable Type V PFDs, they must have the "approved only when worn" label, and they must be worn in order to count toward required safety gear.

posted 01-20-2011 05:54 PM ET (US)            

There is a lot more to PFDs than merely whether you have to wear them or not, but this is a discussion of just that: do you have to wear an inflatable PFD inorder for it to count towards the PFD carriage requirement on your boat.

The answer seems to be: It depends.

posted 01-20-2011 09:56 PM ET (US)            

I am much less clear on why an inflatable with a harness is, "by default," a Type V PDF rating. I do not see where the article implies it is "because they require a label with instructions for using the harness." Where in the CFRs does it say a PFD with instructions makes it a Type V PFD?

posted 01-20-2011 10:58 PM ET (US)            

I suspect that inflatable PFDs with harnesses require an extra label regarding the proper use of the harness, and therefore do not meet the requirement of a Type I, II, or III PFD. The "General characteristics of life preservers" are set forth in 46 C.F.R. 160.001-2, and among other things, require that a life preserver must be simple in design; capable of being worn inside-out or being worn clearly in only one way; and can be donned correctly without demonstration, instructions, or assistance by at least 75 percent of persons unfamiliar with the design. See: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/octqtr/46cfr160.001-2.htm . I don't know for certain, but I would guess that the harness prevents an inflatable PFD from meeting these requirements. I would further surmise that shortcomings of an inflatable PFD with a harness can be overcome by additional labeling regarding the proper method for wearing the harness, and that with the additional labeling the inflatable PFD with harness qualifies for conditional approval, thus making it a Type V PFD.

posted 01-21-2011 12:34 PM ET (US)            

One cannot say that any inflatable PFD must be worn to qualify as a PDF for satisfying the carriage requirements. Some PFD's will qualify only when worn, and some will not.

posted 01-21-2011 01:20 PM ET (US)            

End of story.

posted 01-22-2011 09:24 AM ET (US)            

--the Commandant of the Coast Guard decides what devices meet the requirements for being a PFD and gives those devices a TYPE designator; the designations are "based primarily on the in-water performance and serviceability of the PFD."

--if a PFD is difficult to put on, the device may not be considered a PFD unless you are already wearing it. This distinction is separate from consideration of its mechanism for providing flotation.

--the use of an inflatable mechanism does not in itself determine a device's TYPE designator. TYPE designators generally refer to buoyancy provided by the device.

posted 01-23-2011 08:49 PM ET (US)            

Well, sort of. I spoke with a 26 year Mustang veteran employee who specializes in dealing with the Federal government.

He told me things are changing. It used to be that inflatables had to be worn to be counted towards the carriage requirement (which is what I always understood) but now it is not that simple.

He emphasized that you must look at the label of any given PFD to see what it says.

As an example, he took off the inflatable PFD he was wearing to show me the label and it said it is a Type II PFD if used on a recreational craft but it is a Type V if used on a commercial vessel.

I asked him why it was some inflatable PFDs were Type V if they had an integral harness but Type II or III if they did not. His best answer was that any special use PFD was a Type V.

A conventional inherently buoyant foam filled PFD that said WORKVEST on it was a Type V because it was special use. A Mustang survival suit was a Type V for the same reason. A Type II inflatable PFD with an integral harness was, by default, a Type V because the harness made it a "special use" PFD.

It has nothing to do with the difficulty of putting the PFD on. Any Type V PFD must be worn to be counted towards the carriage requirement of a vessel. All other Types do not.

posted 01-24-2011 10:22 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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TYPE V PFDS / SPECIAL USE DEVICES: Only for special uses or conditions.
See label for limits of use:

Hybrid Inflatable PFDs
Canoe/Kayak Vest
Boardsailing Vests
Deck Suits
Work Vests for Commercial Vessels
Commercial Whitewater Vests
Man-Overboard Rescue Devices
Law Enforcement Flotation Devices
Note: The Coast Guard is working with the PFD community to revise the classification and labeling of PFDs. When completed, this information will be updated and hopefully be somewhat easier to understand. Meanwhile, spending a few minutes to understand the many options available to find a PFD that you’re willing to wear could mean the difference between life and death for you or a loved one.

Each PFD sold for use on a recreational boat is required to be provided with a guide to selection entitled “Think Safe – Choose the Right PFD”. These pamphlets are tailored to the kind of PFD to which they are attached. The following information is a combination of information taken from the various pamphlets and additional guidance.

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