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Author Topic:   Keeping your knives sharp on your Whaler.

WT posted 01-24-2011 03:44 PM ET (US)
I'm sure most of us carry a sharp knife with us while on our Whalers. Knife sharpening was never anything I could accomplish very well, so I always had a knife store sharpen my blades.
Yesterday while I was attending a local sportsman's show I came across a guy selling a unique knife sharpener. It was supposed to to idiot proof, so I bought one. Actually it was priced at $30 for two sharpeners and I split the cost with a friend.
I can tell you that it is now very simple to sharpen knives, knives with serrated blades, fish hooks, scissors, arrowheads, axes, swords and most any other blades.
A friend that attended the show with me yesterday is a butcher. He called me this morning and says he can't believe how easy it is to sharpen his butcher knives.
This wonder is called the Hunter Honer. Check out the demo video.
http://www.hunterhoner.com/index.html
Check it out at your local sportsman's show if you have the chance.
Come on warm weather, I want to get my Whaler on the water!!
Warren

littleblue posted 01-24-2011 04:15 PM ET (US)
I have two of those as well. One at home and one in the tackle box.
I haven't been able to sharpen them using the tool quite as well as by hand, but it is was easier and faster. Excellent for filleting fish!
pcrussell50 posted 01-24-2011 04:26 PM ET (US)
WT, it's not _that_ bad up there in the bay area! You should still be boating, buddy :)
Man, you guys have been showing a recent knack of choosing subjects near and dear to my heart... sharpening is another one...
That sharpener looks like a butcher's steel. That is for knives that are already "sharp", but have lost the razor-like qualities of the edge. A knife that is truly dull needs metal removed to restore the edge, then you can steel or strop it to get the final polish on it.
This article from Cooks Illustrated sums it up. CI does not take advertisement money, so they retain their journalistic integrity:
http://www.cooksillustrated.com/equipment/overview.asp?docid=10602
The opening two paragraphs:

quote:
Even the most expensive, well-made knives lose their sharpness quickly when used regularly. And it doesn't take months, or even weeks: A knife can go dull in just a few minutes, especially if you're cutting through tough materials, such as bone.
What's the best way to maintain that snappy edge that makes light work of chopping and slicing? First, it's important to note that there's a difference between tuning up a relatively sharp knife and sharpening a dull knife. A so-called sharpening steel, the metal rod sold with most knife sets, doesn't sharpen at all: It's a tune-up device. As you cut with a sharp knife, the thin cutting edge of the blade can actually turn to the side, making your blade seem duller than it is. Running the knife blade over the steel, as most professional chefs do each time they're about to use a knife, simply realigns that edge and makes it straight again. It can't reshape a truly dull blade that's rounded and worn down. That's when you need a sharpener that can cut away metal and restore the standard 20-degree angle of each side of the edge.
-Peter
PeteB88 posted 01-24-2011 08:23 PM ET (US)
Agree, keep them sharp.
jimh posted 01-24-2011 08:59 PM ET (US)
About 20-years-ago I bought a Rapala fillet knife. Included with the knife was a sharpener that is almost identical to the one mentioned and shown above. The Rapala fillet knife is still so sharp that it scares me to use it.
AZdave posted 01-25-2011 12:23 AM ET (US)
I think the striated rods on this sharpener are made of carbide. I used a similar device with good results in terms of sharpness, but the edge seemed rough. I may have been using it incorrectly. I've been using a sharpener made by Dexter- Russell. It looks like a flattened version of the usual sharpening steel, but it is made of aluminum with industrial diamond dust bonded to it. It's by far the best sharpener I've ever used, and does a good job on stainless knives. It's made in the USA and costs $20 - $30. I would still recommend good carbon steel knives if you do a lot of filleting or meat cutting. I find them easier to sharpen to to a really good edge. That may not be practical if you store them on a boat on salt water.
pcrussell50 posted 01-25-2011 02:25 AM ET (US)
Reading the guys web site, he sounds like a classic tradesman... probably good at his craft, but no much with spelling, grammar, and diction. In bold print he refers to the rods as being made of "nitride", a noun in his usage, as if "nitride" is in and of itself is some kind of metal, which it is not. Later, he refers to them as having been "nitrided", a verb. Nitriding is a well known technique for hardening steel. A more correct and believeable usage of the term.
He does not say that they are carbide, which itself is short for the proper term, tungsten carbide. Carbide by itself of course, is useless for tools. It is also not part of the nitriding process. I'm guessing his sharpener is at face value, nitrided steel... IOW, a butcher's steel. This is not suitable for removing the amounts of metal required to sharpen a knife. Most of the time, real professional sharpening is done on a machine.
Criticism aside, knowing that it's not going to be much of a metal remover, it's probably just fine as an edge tuner. Can't hurt much, anyway.
FWIW, there are some dandy little manual sharpeners that are tungsten carbide in one slot, and ceramic in another. Dilligent use of those hombres will go a long way towards lengthening the time between visits to a professional knife sharpener. Here's one I use:
http://smithsedge.com/products/product.asp?id=44&cid=
Under $5 at Wally world.
This is my go-to tome on sharpening:
http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/
It's not a very organized and professional appearing web site, but it's FULL of great information, and LOTs of reviews of the simplest to the most expensive sharpeners.
-Peter
Hoosier posted 01-25-2011 06:51 AM ET (US)
A dull knife is like wet powder, not much use when you need it. My son's buddy owns Grindstone Cutlery, they both say that a dull knife is dangerous. I just bought a Rapala fillet knife and my son had Mike sharpen it, he didn't like the factory edge. He was right, this one wasn't made in Finland.
http://grindstonecutlery.com/default.html
cohasett73 posted 01-25-2011 09:19 AM ET (US)
For fish hooks and knives on my boat I use a 6" flat mill file and a diamond steel the same length. Sharpening gadgets are just that, fine for unskilled not so fine for people who make a living keeping edges sharp.
Even half a$$ed sharp is better and safer than dull.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
gnr posted 01-25-2011 10:05 AM ET (US)
Keep in mind that the angles you would use on your kitchen knives are not the same as you would use on your utilitarian knives.
mateobosch posted 01-25-2011 02:17 PM ET (US)
The Hunter Honer looks like an excellent blade maintaining type kit. But, keep in mind that if your knives have been neglected and have pits and gouges in the blade edge, additional sharpening tools may be required to get a factory quality edge back. This might involve grinding down some of the steel to get a smooth surface back and then using a tool like the Hunter Honer.
If you have seriously dull or even partially broken knife, I would recommend this set listed below in addition to something like the Hunter Honer. I have a Gatco set and have sharpened/repaired easily over a hundred knives with it so far. A cheap knife stone is another good thing to have in your kit if you need to do some aggressive grinding to obtain a smooth surface before sharpening.
Check out the “GATCO Edgemate Professional Knife Sharpening System”.
The Gatco kit allows you to make custom edges that are more suitable for specific uses. A pocket knife is not going to be as sharp as a fillet knife etc.
Matt
Nails posted 01-25-2011 05:48 PM ET (US)
Peter:
Thanks for the terrific link to Smiths Edge. I've been looking for reasonably priced sharpening stones for quite a while, with no success until now - much appreciated!
Tom
PeteB88 posted 01-25-2011 07:00 PM ET (US)
I have a Ginsu that I picked up at a yard sale that's been cutting beer cans and tomatoes for 20 years. Never sharpened it. I don't know how you could ever sharpen that thing. I keep in in an ethafoam sheath I made it's so dangerous sharp. I think it was 50 cents.
pcrussell50 posted 01-25-2011 10:25 PM ET (US)
Remember Nails, the only Smith's product I've actually tried for real is that little doohickey in the link I gave. The father-in-law uses them for ordinary light duty, kitchen work. He's a pro bass fisherman and a big game hunting guide and a big-game ocean fishing guide as well. Part of his hunting business is a game meat processing plant, where his clients can get their buffalo, elk, deer, what-have-you, processed into steaks, jerky, sausage, etc... They do a LOT of cutting over there. For keeping his knives the kind of sharp he needs in that line of work, he has an expensive, belt-grinding system especially for knives. This is what most professional knife sharpening businesses use to sharpen the knives of professional chefs in hoity toity New York and LA restaurants where they rotate out their knives weekly, handing over the dull ones, and picking up the sharp ones... like a uniform washing service for a mechanic's shop. There are a _few_ guys who can do a knife on a stone, freehand, repeatedly, without rounding the edge, but it is slow, craftsman work, and not suited to high throughput.
For home use, the 90% as good as the pro's for 105 of the cost, solution is The Chef's Choice model 120 (or 130 depending on what you like), electric diamond sharpener. It will put a shaving sharp edge on any knife with good enough steel. It's only $139. Like Apple products, they never go on sale. They are made in the USA. Best deal going is Bed Bath and Beyond... use the 20% off coupon. Or else, Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's has it too. This is the one that Cooks Illustrated likes.
-Pete

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Author	Topic: Keeping your knives sharp on your Whaler.
WT	posted 01-24-2011 03:44 PM ET (US) I'm sure most of us carry a sharp knife with us while on our Whalers. Knife sharpening was never anything I could accomplish very well, so I always had a knife store sharpen my blades. Yesterday while I was attending a local sportsman's show I came across a guy selling a unique knife sharpener. It was supposed to to idiot proof, so I bought one. Actually it was priced at $30 for two sharpeners and I split the cost with a friend. I can tell you that it is now very simple to sharpen knives, knives with serrated blades, fish hooks, scissors, arrowheads, axes, swords and most any other blades. A friend that attended the show with me yesterday is a butcher. He called me this morning and says he can't believe how easy it is to sharpen his butcher knives. This wonder is called the Hunter Honer. Check out the demo video. http://www.hunterhoner.com/index.html Check it out at your local sportsman's show if you have the chance. Come on warm weather, I want to get my Whaler on the water!! Warren
littleblue	posted 01-24-2011 04:15 PM ET (US) I have two of those as well. One at home and one in the tackle box. I haven't been able to sharpen them using the tool quite as well as by hand, but it is was easier and faster. Excellent for filleting fish!
pcrussell50	posted 01-24-2011 04:26 PM ET (US) WT, it's not _that_ bad up there in the bay area! You should still be boating, buddy :) Man, you guys have been showing a recent knack of choosing subjects near and dear to my heart... sharpening is another one... That sharpener looks like a butcher's steel. That is for knives that are already "sharp", but have lost the razor-like qualities of the edge. A knife that is truly dull needs metal removed to restore the edge, then you can steel or strop it to get the final polish on it. This article from Cooks Illustrated sums it up. CI does not take advertisement money, so they retain their journalistic integrity: http://www.cooksillustrated.com/equipment/overview.asp?docid=10602 The opening two paragraphs: quote: Even the most expensive, well-made knives lose their sharpness quickly when used regularly. And it doesn't take months, or even weeks: A knife can go dull in just a few minutes, especially if you're cutting through tough materials, such as bone. What's the best way to maintain that snappy edge that makes light work of chopping and slicing? First, it's important to note that there's a difference between tuning up a relatively sharp knife and sharpening a dull knife. A so-called sharpening steel, the metal rod sold with most knife sets, doesn't sharpen at all: It's a tune-up device. As you cut with a sharp knife, the thin cutting edge of the blade can actually turn to the side, making your blade seem duller than it is. Running the knife blade over the steel, as most professional chefs do each time they're about to use a knife, simply realigns that edge and makes it straight again. It can't reshape a truly dull blade that's rounded and worn down. That's when you need a sharpener that can cut away metal and restore the standard 20-degree angle of each side of the edge. -Peter
PeteB88	posted 01-24-2011 08:23 PM ET (US) Agree, keep them sharp.
jimh	posted 01-24-2011 08:59 PM ET (US) About 20-years-ago I bought a Rapala fillet knife. Included with the knife was a sharpener that is almost identical to the one mentioned and shown above. The Rapala fillet knife is still so sharp that it scares me to use it.
AZdave	posted 01-25-2011 12:23 AM ET (US) I think the striated rods on this sharpener are made of carbide. I used a similar device with good results in terms of sharpness, but the edge seemed rough. I may have been using it incorrectly. I've been using a sharpener made by Dexter- Russell. It looks like a flattened version of the usual sharpening steel, but it is made of aluminum with industrial diamond dust bonded to it. It's by far the best sharpener I've ever used, and does a good job on stainless knives. It's made in the USA and costs $20 - $30. I would still recommend good carbon steel knives if you do a lot of filleting or meat cutting. I find them easier to sharpen to to a really good edge. That may not be practical if you store them on a boat on salt water.
pcrussell50	posted 01-25-2011 02:25 AM ET (US) Reading the guys web site, he sounds like a classic tradesman... probably good at his craft, but no much with spelling, grammar, and diction. In bold print he refers to the rods as being made of "nitride", a noun in his usage, as if "nitride" is in and of itself is some kind of metal, which it is not. Later, he refers to them as having been "nitrided", a verb. Nitriding is a well known technique for hardening steel. A more correct and believeable usage of the term. He does not say that they are carbide, which itself is short for the proper term, tungsten carbide. Carbide by itself of course, is useless for tools. It is also not part of the nitriding process. I'm guessing his sharpener is at face value, nitrided steel... IOW, a butcher's steel. This is not suitable for removing the amounts of metal required to sharpen a knife. Most of the time, real professional sharpening is done on a machine. Criticism aside, knowing that it's not going to be much of a metal remover, it's probably just fine as an edge tuner. Can't hurt much, anyway. FWIW, there are some dandy little manual sharpeners that are tungsten carbide in one slot, and ceramic in another. Dilligent use of those hombres will go a long way towards lengthening the time between visits to a professional knife sharpener. Here's one I use: http://smithsedge.com/products/product.asp?id=44&cid= Under $5 at Wally world. This is my go-to tome on sharpening: http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/ It's not a very organized and professional appearing web site, but it's FULL of great information, and LOTs of reviews of the simplest to the most expensive sharpeners. -Peter
Hoosier	posted 01-25-2011 06:51 AM ET (US) A dull knife is like wet powder, not much use when you need it. My son's buddy owns Grindstone Cutlery, they both say that a dull knife is dangerous. I just bought a Rapala fillet knife and my son had Mike sharpen it, he didn't like the factory edge. He was right, this one wasn't made in Finland. http://grindstonecutlery.com/default.html
cohasett73	posted 01-25-2011 09:19 AM ET (US) For fish hooks and knives on my boat I use a 6" flat mill file and a diamond steel the same length. Sharpening gadgets are just that, fine for unskilled not so fine for people who make a living keeping edges sharp. Even half a$$ed sharp is better and safer than dull. Tom from Rubicon,WI
gnr	posted 01-25-2011 10:05 AM ET (US) Keep in mind that the angles you would use on your kitchen knives are not the same as you would use on your utilitarian knives.
mateobosch	posted 01-25-2011 02:17 PM ET (US) The Hunter Honer looks like an excellent blade maintaining type kit. But, keep in mind that if your knives have been neglected and have pits and gouges in the blade edge, additional sharpening tools may be required to get a factory quality edge back. This might involve grinding down some of the steel to get a smooth surface back and then using a tool like the Hunter Honer. If you have seriously dull or even partially broken knife, I would recommend this set listed below in addition to something like the Hunter Honer. I have a Gatco set and have sharpened/repaired easily over a hundred knives with it so far. A cheap knife stone is another good thing to have in your kit if you need to do some aggressive grinding to obtain a smooth surface before sharpening. Check out the “GATCO Edgemate Professional Knife Sharpening System”. The Gatco kit allows you to make custom edges that are more suitable for specific uses. A pocket knife is not going to be as sharp as a fillet knife etc. Matt
Nails	posted 01-25-2011 05:48 PM ET (US) Peter: Thanks for the terrific link to Smiths Edge. I've been looking for reasonably priced sharpening stones for quite a while, with no success until now - much appreciated! Tom
PeteB88	posted 01-25-2011 07:00 PM ET (US) I have a Ginsu that I picked up at a yard sale that's been cutting beer cans and tomatoes for 20 years. Never sharpened it. I don't know how you could ever sharpen that thing. I keep in in an ethafoam sheath I made it's so dangerous sharp. I think it was 50 cents.
pcrussell50	posted 01-25-2011 10:25 PM ET (US) Remember Nails, the only Smith's product I've actually tried for real is that little doohickey in the link I gave. The father-in-law uses them for ordinary light duty, kitchen work. He's a pro bass fisherman and a big game hunting guide and a big-game ocean fishing guide as well. Part of his hunting business is a game meat processing plant, where his clients can get their buffalo, elk, deer, what-have-you, processed into steaks, jerky, sausage, etc... They do a LOT of cutting over there. For keeping his knives the kind of sharp he needs in that line of work, he has an expensive, belt-grinding system especially for knives. This is what most professional knife sharpening businesses use to sharpen the knives of professional chefs in hoity toity New York and LA restaurants where they rotate out their knives weekly, handing over the dull ones, and picking up the sharp ones... like a uniform washing service for a mechanic's shop. There are a _few_ guys who can do a knife on a stone, freehand, repeatedly, without rounding the edge, but it is slow, craftsman work, and not suited to high throughput. For home use, the 90% as good as the pro's for 105 of the cost, solution is The Chef's Choice model 120 (or 130 depending on what you like), electric diamond sharpener. It will put a shaving sharp edge on any knife with good enough steel. It's only $139. Like Apple products, they never go on sale. They are made in the USA. Best deal going is Bed Bath and Beyond... use the 20% off coupon. Or else, Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's has it too. This is the one that Cooks Illustrated likes. -Pete