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Author Topic:   Wood Gunwale - How thin is too thin.

Buckda posted 01-31-2011 11:53 AM ET (US)
Well, I pulled all the wood out of my boat this weekend for refinishing/refurbishment. It looks like I may need to add "replacement" to that list.
As an important case study in why I like varnish as a finish on wood, you can clearly see where the gunwales on my boat were once varnished. That varnish is all gone, except underneath fittings - and you can tell! There is at least 1/8 inch of wood missing, and in the thin part of wood near the gunwale, it's become very thin - about 1/4 of an inch thick (I don't have a caliper tool to measure the actual thickness, but it's significantly less than the original dimension, which was preserved under the rubrail).
So - how thin is too thin? I'm thinking I need to replace these boards - but at $36/bf, that's not a pretty picture.

ConB posted 01-31-2011 12:26 PM ET (US)
Some one used lots of cleaner and/or did lots of sanding.
I'm thinking that epoxying some good exterior plywood to the under side of the gunwale caps might stabilize the wood and buy you some time before replacement.
Con
PeteB88 posted 01-31-2011 12:26 PM ET (US)
Well your eyes are on the components so it's hard to really know.
My reaction if it were mine would be to strip the boards you have w/ serious chemical stripper, use thorough cleaning technique (lots of solvent, steelwool, lots of clean rags) to remove the residual, let the solvent flash off, scuff sand- keeping in mind you are prepping for finish not shaping or removing wood - apply marine oil for your base coat (let it cure/oxidize) then apply a two or three coats of spar varnish. I have done that procedure many times with excellent results for tough use conditions.
I'd do that until I could source some new boards for permanent installation. I might consider epoxy coating the end grain or edges if you are worried about water wicking into the boards.
I can't speak to the 1/4" 1/8" situation - are you talking thickness (V), edge to edge (H) wide gap to rub rail?
You might be surprised at the results. You can make your own oil too, easy, low cost, works great probably better than commercial stuff. I have added fungicide to my home brew a few times.
I might be close to Casa Buckalew next day or two and could take a look.
OR just get some Porch Paint and screw 'em up like we used to see dudes inflict on great wooden drift boats in the West.
PeteB88 posted 01-31-2011 12:31 PM ET (US)
I am a huge fan of marine oil before spar varnish. Old school technique for sure. Painters back in the day made their own stuff including paint with linseed oil and turpentine as base dumping in pigments or even iron oxide. Be mindful that the stuff oxidizes so putting rags in trash can will ignite and burn down your house or shop. I lay them flat until they get stiff or put in can of water (coffee can w/ lid works)/
I remember one old school river guide who used to soak the blade ends of his oars in a can of linseed oil with a little solvent (mineral spirits usually) for days before the season to "toughen up" the edges. We also used to dump pine tar in our custom formulations.
Blackduck posted 01-31-2011 12:31 PM ET (US)
The wood in the area that slips under the rub rail is about half of the thickness of the top board, which was about 3/4" when made. The area you refer to may have only been 5/16" when milled, so I think you are fine. To replace those two boards, you could easily spend $600, not counting the two coaming boards.
Buckda posted 01-31-2011 02:18 PM ET (US)
The coaming boards are completely restore-able. A little rough here and there, but I'm confident they have enough wood there to make a complete comeback (perhaps with some 'character' showing through the finish).
The top boards are the ones in rough shape. The cut essentially is now a "V" with dimensional thickness down to about 3/8" in the "V" - and back to just shy of 1/4 inch under the rubrail.
PeteB88 posted 02-02-2011 12:31 AM ET (US)
Dave, it's really all about outsmarting those wooden boards. You can do it!! There is so many options including fillers and stuff. I't go simple until you find super deal to replace.
Jefecinco posted 02-02-2011 09:20 AM ET (US)
Bite the bullet and replace the severely worn wood with original dimensioned lumber. With proper care it should never require another set of wood and you will have the advantage of starting your preservation method your way from day one.
Bristol fashion brightwork is a beautiful thing to see and it adds great beauty to a classic. Few boats are as beautiful as a Boston Whaler with a few nice sticks applied.
Butch
Buckda posted 02-02-2011 09:35 AM ET (US)
I agree with Butch. I have a call in to Nautical Lumber to determine replacement pricing.
Whalrman posted 02-02-2011 07:55 PM ET (US)
Yes, I to have to agree that the teak on a whaler is just great looking and I always make it a point to tell an owner that has great looking teak gunnle boards how nice they look. That said, I went the other way. I took off the fiberglass ones and had "blank" alum. ones made from the supplier to CPD, thanks to Mr. Bennett. "blank" in terms of they only bent the inside "c" and I did the rest. Won't have to touch again except to re-paint in time.
PeteB88 posted 02-03-2011 12:12 AM ET (US)
Don't throw away the old wood. I've salvaged wood from some of the CW guys and use it for lots of things.
elaelap posted 02-03-2011 10:14 AM ET (US)
Pete, earlier on this thread you advised the use of steel wool as part of the preparation process. I've always thought that steel wool is something to keep away from wood because of the danger of tiny bits getting into the wood's pores and rusting, leaving little black spots. Have I been wrong about this all these years?
Tony
Buckda posted 02-03-2011 10:43 AM ET (US)
Pete -
People throw away old teak?
18AGAIN posted 02-03-2011 11:28 AM ET (US)
Hi Dave. Would be interested in comparing pricing for the Teak from your supplier and up here. Looking at replacing one of my gunwale boards and have been quoted $29.20 board foot up to 10 foot lengths.
home Aside posted 02-04-2011 06:06 AM ET (US)
elaelap,
Using Bronze Wool solves the problem, steel wool leaves particles that rust when varnish is coated on the wood,Bronze wool won't it's not too hard to find. I found it mom & pop corner hardware, relatively cheap...
Pat
mateobosch posted 02-04-2011 11:54 AM ET (US)
Hey Dave,
I would love to help you shape some of that wood if you need a hand. Also, I have not seen any of this yet but could you possibly laminate some smaller pieces together and save some money instead of buying all new teak?
If you get a chance, shoot me an email of what you have so far.
Matt
Buckda posted 02-04-2011 01:12 PM ET (US)
As interesting and unique as a Herring bone or other pattern on the gunwale board might be, I prefer to go with a single board, if possible. Besides, I don't possess the laser technology necessary to create a voidless/seamless connection, and I don't intend to tongue and groove such a collection of spare teak together to make it work.
PeteB88 posted 02-04-2011 11:37 PM ET (US)
I know all about bronze wool. I agree if it's used on board a boat or close to salt environment. However, off the boat, in a shop and with vacuums, solvents, rags and compressed air I have never had the problem described re: rusted particles. Good warning though, I would use bronze wool if I had to do work on board. We don't worry about salt air in the Great Lakes.
Copious amounts of solvent when doing that procedure.
Kanawha1 posted 02-05-2011 01:00 PM ET (US)
Is an alternate wood out of the question? I know I've had success with teak alternates when making small repairs to furniture, and they were substantially less expensive.


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Author	Topic: Wood Gunwale - How thin is too thin.
Buckda	posted 01-31-2011 11:53 AM ET (US) Well, I pulled all the wood out of my boat this weekend for refinishing/refurbishment. It looks like I may need to add "replacement" to that list. As an important case study in why I like varnish as a finish on wood, you can clearly see where the gunwales on my boat were once varnished. That varnish is all gone, except underneath fittings - and you can tell! There is at least 1/8 inch of wood missing, and in the thin part of wood near the gunwale, it's become very thin - about 1/4 of an inch thick (I don't have a caliper tool to measure the actual thickness, but it's significantly less than the original dimension, which was preserved under the rubrail). So - how thin is too thin? I'm thinking I need to replace these boards - but at $36/bf, that's not a pretty picture.
ConB	posted 01-31-2011 12:26 PM ET (US) Some one used lots of cleaner and/or did lots of sanding. I'm thinking that epoxying some good exterior plywood to the under side of the gunwale caps might stabilize the wood and buy you some time before replacement. Con
PeteB88	posted 01-31-2011 12:26 PM ET (US) Well your eyes are on the components so it's hard to really know. My reaction if it were mine would be to strip the boards you have w/ serious chemical stripper, use thorough cleaning technique (lots of solvent, steelwool, lots of clean rags) to remove the residual, let the solvent flash off, scuff sand- keeping in mind you are prepping for finish not shaping or removing wood - apply marine oil for your base coat (let it cure/oxidize) then apply a two or three coats of spar varnish. I have done that procedure many times with excellent results for tough use conditions. I'd do that until I could source some new boards for permanent installation. I might consider epoxy coating the end grain or edges if you are worried about water wicking into the boards. I can't speak to the 1/4" 1/8" situation - are you talking thickness (V), edge to edge (H) wide gap to rub rail? You might be surprised at the results. You can make your own oil too, easy, low cost, works great probably better than commercial stuff. I have added fungicide to my home brew a few times. I might be close to Casa Buckalew next day or two and could take a look. OR just get some Porch Paint and screw 'em up like we used to see dudes inflict on great wooden drift boats in the West.
PeteB88	posted 01-31-2011 12:31 PM ET (US) I am a huge fan of marine oil before spar varnish. Old school technique for sure. Painters back in the day made their own stuff including paint with linseed oil and turpentine as base dumping in pigments or even iron oxide. Be mindful that the stuff oxidizes so putting rags in trash can will ignite and burn down your house or shop. I lay them flat until they get stiff or put in can of water (coffee can w/ lid works)/ I remember one old school river guide who used to soak the blade ends of his oars in a can of linseed oil with a little solvent (mineral spirits usually) for days before the season to "toughen up" the edges. We also used to dump pine tar in our custom formulations.
Blackduck	posted 01-31-2011 12:31 PM ET (US) The wood in the area that slips under the rub rail is about half of the thickness of the top board, which was about 3/4" when made. The area you refer to may have only been 5/16" when milled, so I think you are fine. To replace those two boards, you could easily spend $600, not counting the two coaming boards.
Buckda	posted 01-31-2011 02:18 PM ET (US) The coaming boards are completely restore-able. A little rough here and there, but I'm confident they have enough wood there to make a complete comeback (perhaps with some 'character' showing through the finish). The top boards are the ones in rough shape. The cut essentially is now a "V" with dimensional thickness down to about 3/8" in the "V" - and back to just shy of 1/4 inch under the rubrail.
PeteB88	posted 02-02-2011 12:31 AM ET (US) Dave, it's really all about outsmarting those wooden boards. You can do it!! There is so many options including fillers and stuff. I't go simple until you find super deal to replace.
Jefecinco	posted 02-02-2011 09:20 AM ET (US) Bite the bullet and replace the severely worn wood with original dimensioned lumber. With proper care it should never require another set of wood and you will have the advantage of starting your preservation method your way from day one. Bristol fashion brightwork is a beautiful thing to see and it adds great beauty to a classic. Few boats are as beautiful as a Boston Whaler with a few nice sticks applied. Butch
Buckda	posted 02-02-2011 09:35 AM ET (US) I agree with Butch. I have a call in to Nautical Lumber to determine replacement pricing.
Whalrman	posted 02-02-2011 07:55 PM ET (US) Yes, I to have to agree that the teak on a whaler is just great looking and I always make it a point to tell an owner that has great looking teak gunnle boards how nice they look. That said, I went the other way. I took off the fiberglass ones and had "blank" alum. ones made from the supplier to CPD, thanks to Mr. Bennett. "blank" in terms of they only bent the inside "c" and I did the rest. Won't have to touch again except to re-paint in time.
PeteB88	posted 02-03-2011 12:12 AM ET (US) Don't throw away the old wood. I've salvaged wood from some of the CW guys and use it for lots of things.
elaelap	posted 02-03-2011 10:14 AM ET (US) Pete, earlier on this thread you advised the use of steel wool as part of the preparation process. I've always thought that steel wool is something to keep away from wood because of the danger of tiny bits getting into the wood's pores and rusting, leaving little black spots. Have I been wrong about this all these years? Tony
Buckda	posted 02-03-2011 10:43 AM ET (US) Pete - People throw away old teak?
18AGAIN	posted 02-03-2011 11:28 AM ET (US) Hi Dave. Would be interested in comparing pricing for the Teak from your supplier and up here. Looking at replacing one of my gunwale boards and have been quoted $29.20 board foot up to 10 foot lengths.
home Aside	posted 02-04-2011 06:06 AM ET (US) elaelap, Using Bronze Wool solves the problem, steel wool leaves particles that rust when varnish is coated on the wood,Bronze wool won't it's not too hard to find. I found it mom & pop corner hardware, relatively cheap... Pat
mateobosch	posted 02-04-2011 11:54 AM ET (US) Hey Dave, I would love to help you shape some of that wood if you need a hand. Also, I have not seen any of this yet but could you possibly laminate some smaller pieces together and save some money instead of buying all new teak? If you get a chance, shoot me an email of what you have so far. Matt
Buckda	posted 02-04-2011 01:12 PM ET (US) As interesting and unique as a Herring bone or other pattern on the gunwale board might be, I prefer to go with a single board, if possible. Besides, I don't possess the laser technology necessary to create a voidless/seamless connection, and I don't intend to tongue and groove such a collection of spare teak together to make it work.
PeteB88	posted 02-04-2011 11:37 PM ET (US) I know all about bronze wool. I agree if it's used on board a boat or close to salt environment. However, off the boat, in a shop and with vacuums, solvents, rags and compressed air I have never had the problem described re: rusted particles. Good warning though, I would use bronze wool if I had to do work on board. We don't worry about salt air in the Great Lakes. Copious amounts of solvent when doing that procedure.
Kanawha1	posted 02-05-2011 01:00 PM ET (US) Is an alternate wood out of the question? I know I've had success with teak alternates when making small repairs to furniture, and they were substantially less expensive.