posted 02-02-2011 09:44 AM ET (US)            

My tarp, and its support structure, on the other hand, have required constant attention during the many storms we have experienced.

posted 02-02-2011 10:06 AM ET (US)            

In southern Michigan, my Whaler has defied the weather, with not a snowflake to be found.

posted 02-02-2011 10:55 AM ET (US)            

Hopefully, he's not like the electric car owner who barely made it home in the snow with the cold zapping the car batteries.

posted 02-02-2011 11:16 AM ET (US)            

I have a "temporary" garage/shelter made of a steel frame and a fabric backed by poly material. The sun has done some damage as it is now 3 years old.
One end of the top has separated from the front allowing some snow to fall into the shelter but not on the boat at all. (MDM Shelters) Mine is the 12'X20"X8'

posted 02-02-2011 11:20 AM ET (US)            

Here in Juneau, Alaska we've only had 43" of snow this winter, 20" below normal. Average is about 100" by April. A big snow year is 220" (2009). Yesterday the temperature reached 47F at the house.

But back to Whalers collapsing - just keep on knocking the snow off - all day, every morning, every night. Takes work.

posted 02-02-2011 11:32 AM ET (US)            

Small minds view our planet in a limited fashion. The continental U.S., including giant Alaska, is around 3.7 million square miles. The Earth is ~197 million square miles. Best not to attack the substantiated opinions of the overwhelming majority of geophysicists, meteorologists, and climate scientists because of a single event taking place on perhaps one percent of the Earth's surface, even though the flat earth radio and TV bloviators do so with glee every winter. Oh well...

posted 02-02-2011 12:06 PM ET (US)            

It's been quite a year - plowed another foot last night, 4 more inches this morning, and more expected tonight.

posted 02-02-2011 01:51 PM ET (US)            

Re:My 4 whalers have survived this winter no problem. Not a flake on them.

Are you sure that you or Len didn't spill a snowcone on them at some point this season?

Maybe some cooler slush slid off a can or bottle after being removed? (Moored for the night of course)

SnowMageddon is thus far a non event in Toronto.

posted 02-02-2011 03:03 PM ET (US)         

Using single weather events to try to debunk climate change would be like using a single day on the stock market to determine your lifelong investment strategies. Anyone here do that?

posted 02-02-2011 08:27 PM ET (US)            

Chin up guy's it will be spring quite soon!!!!

posted 02-02-2011 10:01 PM ET (US)            

Actually, Tony is substantially right, undiplomatic remarks aside. Maybe a decade ago or so there was still a legitimate argument about whether global warming was happening and whether man was causing it. That debate is over in the scientific community.

The only thing left to argue about is what the effects will be and what, if anything, we want to do about it.

posted 02-02-2011 10:43 PM ET (US)            

http://blog.algore.com/2011/02/an_answer_for_bill.html

posted 02-03-2011 11:26 AM ET (US)         

quote:

---

Best not to attack the substantiated opinions of the overwhelming majority of geophysicists, meteorologists, and climate scientists because of a single event taking place on perhaps one percent of the Earth's surface, even though the flat earth radio and TV bloviators do so with glee every winter. Oh well...

---

I wonder if these experts are the offspring of the experts in the 70's who predicted and substantiated the impending ice age?

LOL

It always amazes me how those who seem to have such a high opinion of their intellectual capacity are the same ones who are incapable of critical thinking. They just lap it up and regurgitate it as gospel.

18 fresh inches of snow on the tarp covering my Whaler last night. I came back up the drive from plowing the bottom section to find my lovely wife cleaning it off.

posted 02-03-2011 12:34 PM ET (US)            

Public ways are connected, alley, garage apron and parking pad are clear, but the sidewalks are one-shovel wide cowpaths. The courtyard is full of huge drifts with canyon like passages between buildings and snow walls, but the Whaler seems to be fine tucked into the garage.

The best way to avoid the hyperbolic weather alerts is to turn off the TV. You'll find many other benefits to this as well.

posted 02-03-2011 12:37 PM ET (US)            

In this case Jim wakes up in Beverly Hills, Michigan to five inches of snow and thinks...big deal.

But for folks in Chicago where they had 20 inches of snow, or Indiana where some places had 30 inches of snow, or ice storms in Texas and New Jersey, it is a big deal.

This storm in not remarkable for the intensity of what happened in any one place but how much happened over such a broad swath of the US.

Poor weather forecasters, they always get a bum rap.

If they fail to have mentioned the potential of what turns out to be a really bad storm, they get blamed.

If they forecast the potential of the coming weather, and it fails to materialize, they get mocked, as perhaps folks in Beverly Hills Michigan are doing now.

For those in the science of weather forecasting, I suspect they have learned it is better to be on the side of caution and let people know what might happen.

posted 02-03-2011 01:15 PM ET (US)            

I always get a good chuckle at the weather reporters in Hawaii! .... Ohh a low pressure system is coming in with wide spread rain for the afternoon. Cold at 75, sunny sky's returning for the rest of the week expect a steady 82 degrees.

posted 02-03-2011 02:45 PM ET (US)            

Florida weather 11-1 to 5-31--Sunny and mild with a chance of rain a couple times a week or so. Maybe some frost in the winter and maybe a drought in the spring.

posted 02-03-2011 07:53 PM ET (US)            

On the stranger side, I found the outrigger holder lockdown knob and associated hardware laying my hardtop. It took about 20 turns to replace it. I can't fathom how this knob and 3 washers worked it way off when I clearly keep them snugged down at all times in fear of losing them out on the water.

posted 02-03-2011 10:45 PM ET (US)            

But I do agree that it was relished by a media that is desperate for attention - viewers, readers - anyone who will watch, read or consume and who can be indentified as an audience which advertisers can target.

Regarding climate change - I think it has fallen victim to this same chicken little, hype. Not that it doesn't exist - the problem faced now is summarized well by an article in today's Boston Herald by Michael Graham:

"For a theory to be scientific, it must be fallible — capable of being proven false. If every weather condition can be used to “prove” global warming simply by being declared “weird,” then it’s not science. It’s a joke."

Until the fringes on both sides can be reigned in and the facts can be analyzed with some sense of scientific unbiasedness, the whole phenomenon will be regarded with skepticism.

Many religions have this same PR problem that is fueled by fringe groups...

...and so do Lawyers...

...and those with Polish heritage...

...and women with blonde hair.

posted 02-04-2011 01:10 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Until...the facts can be analyzed with some sense of scientific unbiasedness, the whole phenomenon will be regarded with skepticism.

---

Dave, that has been happening for decades and continues to happen. When we talk about scientific unbiasedness, we are talking about peer reviewed studies of factual data by qualified scientists, not columnists in the newspapers and not online discussion forums.

There are two misunderstandings about global warming that tenaciously persist with the public:

- The global warming means everywhere will be warmer.

- That there is any reasonable doubt about whether it is caused by human behavior.

The only thing left to discuss is what, if anything, to do about it.

posted 02-04-2011 01:21 PM ET (US)            

...but any scientist worth his degree will also admit that it is very difficult to say without equivocation that we caused all of it or that it is necessarily a "bad" thing for the planet. He can't because he just does not know. All we can do is observe that it might change the planet as we know it.

The planet as we know it has been changing for millenium. Epochs. Ages. In fact, over that period of time, it has generally warmed and cooled in cycles.

Guess what? The sun will eventually run out of energy and envelop the inner planets of our solar system as it expands tremendously before it collapses upon itself and dies.

What humans have to focus on is 1.) Continuing to work to be good stewards of what we have. 2.) using the Brains that God gave us (or that we evolved) and figuring out how to adapt and survive (hint: see 1.) and 3.) figuring out how to spread the risk of extinction due to environmental factors by exploring and eventually colonizing other habitable solar systems.

Somewhere in those priorities should be how to eradicate world hunger, eliminate poverty and end armed conflicts.

posted 02-04-2011 02:11 PM ET (US)            

One first-hand example from my recent past boating occurred while we were on Isle Royale this summer. The NOAA weather radio forecast seemed to be talking about 17-foot waves three or four days ahead of the arrival of a storm. Environment Canada's forecast seemed more restrained, and did not ramp up the predicted winds and waves until about two days before the storm.

There is no doubt that broadcast media loves to inflate stories, and, ever since we saw the live helicopter shot of the white Bronco being driven by O. J. Simpson, there is an awful tendency to latch onto a story and never let go. Personally, if I see Jim Cantore standing on the curb of a downtown Chicago street for 24 hours, I begin to wonder if I need to find a better place to get weather information than The Weather Channel.

The over-sold warnings did have a positive effect: there were many hotel rooms booked for overnight stays due to concern about the weather, and this added to the economic activity in the region. Also, the enormous publicity put municipal officials responsible for snow clearing on alert, and there was no way for them to hide in the event they were not properly prepared for the storm of the century.

In general, I find that the broadcast media is much better as weather historians than as weather predictors. Most broadcast weather reporting is based on NOAA reports, anyways, and you can often get the same information with less hyperbole from NOAA.

posted 02-05-2011 01:42 PM ET (US)         

Vermont's road clearing policy has been the source of debate in the news recently. Using less salt and calling it a "safe speed" policy. Ironically the same treehuggers who elected the liberal government that initiated this policy are the ones complaining the loudest because the state doesn't use enough salt to completely clear the roads.

Funny stuff.

posted 02-05-2011 04:02 PM ET (US)            

And everyone - front wheel drive is actually dangerous on truely glare icy roads - as when you let up on the pedal, all the resistance is at the front wheels - which is in front ot he CG - which makes the vehicle unstable and it can "swap" ends like post haste.

And regarding weather forcasting - I am reminded of - many years ago, my grandfather wanted to the get some cattle down to a little lower ground. We were riding down a timbered trail and being a bit concerned about the weather, he turned around to an indian friend helping us - and asked what the weather was going to like tomorrow. The indian looked up into the sky and said "Hell Bill, I don't know - I'll tell you tomorrow."

posted 02-05-2011 04:07 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

This thread has sure taken a long ride - from snow loads on our boats, to vehicle drive systems, to weather forcasting - what's next? --- Jerry/Idaho

---

Next, I think we should talk about global warming.

posted 02-05-2011 04:25 PM ET (US)            

"I own two snow blowers, neither of which work."

posted 02-05-2011 08:51 PM ET (US)            

You forgot, while texting, Tweeting and Facebooking!

"speaking of snow blowers, the only one to own is the same as the only outboard to own and that would be a HONDA."

I've owned two snow blowers in my life and they will be my last. Neither of them were the named mentioned above. The last one had a "break in" period which had it run five gallons of gas through an eight HP Tecumseh, in one long weekend.

posted 02-07-2011 03:29 PM ET (US)            

Given temperatures and humidity/dewpoints, you can factor a 12x or 15x rate to get the snow measurements from precipitation figures.

For instance, when its cold like this, .3 inches of precipitation can fall as 3.6 - 4.5 inches of snow.

As temperatures rise, the "inflation factor" decreases.

For the "Blizzard of 2011" in West Michigan, the models predicted 1.2 inches of precipitation...which is exactly what we got: 14.5 - 16 inches of snow for GRR (Grand Rapids Regional airport).

Grand Rapids recorded 16.0 inches of snow, which was .1 inches shy of the record set in the Blizzard of '78. (16.1 inches), but it smashed the record for most 24-hour snowfall in February (our big snow events usually happen on the "shoulder months" like December and March, when there is more moisture in the air from Lake Michigan's (relatively) warm water).

Tom - Would be happy to debate offline, if I felt it would be an appreciated discussion, or if I felt there was any hope in convincing each other. I'd rather keep our friendly status intact, and just settle with "I disagree, even if it means it will take some time for me to regain respect in your view." I hope you can respect that, just on face value.

posted 02-07-2011 07:12 PM ET (US)            

You might want to check this out:
http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201102071000

posted 02-07-2011 08:39 PM ET (US)            

He didn't, and the classic smirked hull came out in 1972.
He had new, valuable information.

When Al Gore announced that the "debate is over in the scientific community" about global warming, that was the beginning of the end for his and pro-global warming credibility.

Many other scientists from other than left-wing walks of life entered the debate.

posted 02-07-2011 10:37 PM ET (US)            

Global warming will (is) lead(ing) to climate change.

Given that Jim has already deleted several comments about global warming, I'm not sure how much longer this thread will go on, but who knows?

In the mean time, I have to note that however disappointed Metro Detroit was with their modest snow fall, weather forecasting as a science is light years ahead of where it was a couple decades ago.

As a weather buff, I really admire meteorologists, not "The Weather Man", as seen on TV, but the real scientists who know their stuff. The tools they have at their disposal are tremendous and getting better.

Here in the PNW we are about to get a new (used) costal weather RADAR which will improve our storm preparedness greatly.

All you weather nerds can read about it here:

posted 02-07-2011 11:17 PM ET (US)            

If Michigan winters become a bit milder, and Michigan summers last a few weeks longer, the boating season should become longer. The level of the lakes may change, too.

I am not certain where it is written down in stone that the precise climate we had for the last 100-years is the "right" climate. It is clear from historical records that in the past there were times when lake levels were much higher and also much lower around here. I mean variations of 100-feet or more. In my lifetime I have seen the level of the Great Lakes vary by about six feet, and all of that happened before anyone heard the name Al Gore or the term Global Warming.

posted 02-08-2011 06:30 AM ET (US)         

The Montauk is safe in a barn for the winter; but I must say I did drive by and look at the roof on Sunday.

Stay warm.

posted 02-08-2011 10:09 AM ET (US)         

A link to an NPR affiliate highlighting a book written by an "environmental journalist" is provided as compelling evidence to be used prove that the sky is falling and it is our fault.

HAHA

Thanks Tony!

posted 02-08-2011 10:47 AM ET (US)            

Tony

posted 02-08-2011 06:14 PM ET (US)            

On the other hand, vast portions of land could be arid dust bowls due to overgrazing and no irrigation. The forests could have been devastated by mega fires. Erosion and flooding could have produced vast swamps. Over population of some species could have fostered massive disease.

We will never know for sure.

John