Likelihood That Outboard Manufacturers Will Incorporate Power Jack Plates Into Stock Engines

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Author Topic:   Likelihood That Outboard Manufacturers Will Incorporate Power Jack Plates Into Stock Engines

contender posted 02-09-2011 06:15 PM ET (US)
I'm getting ready to re-[do] my 25 Contender, and I was thinking about the trim and bracket. Do you think the manufacturers of outboards like Honda, Evinrude, Yamaha, Mercury, and the rest will ever incorporate a lift bracket into their engine mount? Or this could be offered as a part and option. Then and now all the engines will tilt, trim, and go up and down, however, this would tend to put the bracket people out of business.
Buckda posted 02-09-2011 08:21 PM ET (US)
OMC did it in the 80's. It was called a SeaDrive and you could get one as an option on a Boston Whaler.
jimh posted 02-09-2011 09:11 PM ET (US)
I don't think this is likely.
Newtauk1 posted 02-09-2011 09:28 PM ET (US)
Maybe Twin Cities will do a group buy with enough orders, complain that the original people are not coming through and then be out of stock.
Binkster posted 02-09-2011 09:34 PM ET (US)
I think you have a great idea. Most people running big engine use a lift bracket anyway, it might add to the cost but hydraulic brackets don`t come cheap anyway. With today's modern props you need to be able to change the running height of your outboard. I think back in the `60`s OMC had some kind of manual adjustment on the engine bracket enabling you to change ride height. Setback lift brackets would still be manufactured by outside sources.
Tohsgib posted 02-10-2011 11:23 AM ET (US)
SeaDrives did not move vertical as far as I know.
Binkster posted 02-10-2011 11:34 AM ET (US)
Nick, you are right (again) they did not. There only attribute was that they could be installed on boats with a full transom. Not very popular after a short existence.
towboater posted 02-10-2011 11:42 AM ET (US)
Great suggestion Contender, I agree mfg's would be wise to offer the option incorporated into the engine design and color. After $15k, seems to me another 1.5 is cost effective if it increases performance and value?
pcrussell50 posted 02-10-2011 11:53 AM ET (US)
The V6 bass boats and a lot of the fast boats have them. In fact, it's probably pretty hard to find one that doesn't. Of course, the lift bracket's aren't made by the engine maker.
I can _almost_ see a good case that the lift bracket _should_ be made or specified by, or offered by the hull manufacturer. That way, in this day and age, where most high end boats come with the motor, like Whalers, the hull designers might already have done the homework as far as how much setback to use, and established guidelines for when and how much to raise and in what conditions and what performance to expect.
I'm still not sure why slow boats like Whalers need jack plates, unless you plan to run long periods of time, off plane, in water that is actually shallow enough to damage a prop or skeg. I would be too nervous in those conditions to have much fun anyway.
-Peter
Tom W Clark posted 02-10-2011 12:04 PM ET (US)
I have often wondered why the outboard manufacturers are not already incorporating vertical height adjustment into their motors, but I am sure the day will come and that it will be as common as power trim-n-tilt is today and it will yield the same performance enhancements that hydraulic trim does.
Can you imagine operating your Whaler without power trim?
It was not all that long ago that trim-n-tilt was an expensive option, and only for large outboards. Today you can get power trim on almost any outboard motor and it is standard equipment on the vast majority of them.
The electro-hydraulic architecture is already present on these motors so adapting it to serve vertical height adjustment should be easy.
The challenge is redesigning the very simple and very robust pivot point of the tilt tube on outboards.
jharrell posted 02-10-2011 01:24 PM ET (US)

quote:
I'm still not sure why slow boats like Whalers need jack plates, unless you plan to run long periods of time, off plane, in water that is actually shallow enough to damage a prop or skeg. I would be too nervous in those conditions to have much fun anyway.
Small Whalers like the classic Montauk and Outrage 18 are very good hybrid boats. Because of their shallow draft with a jack plate they can make it into very skinny water, while still having the sea keeping ability to go offshore, where lowering the jackplate all the way can be beneficial.
For someone like me who goes very shallow in rivers and still goes in deeper water around Tampa Bay, the classic Montauk is a great boat, it will be even more versatile once I get my CMC jackplate installed.
contender posted 02-10-2011 03:59 PM ET (US)
Tom: I have to agree with you but, I think the way they can do it is, The pivot point would stay the same but the entire unit would raise, This would only work on the outboards that choose to use a Hydraulic steering system,(still have the same pivot point with a hydraulic cylinder steering) because the steering hoses would be flexible. This really would be the best of both worlds....They put a guy on the moon I think this should be a no brain-er in comparison...Maybe I will be talking to the Evinrude Engineers at the Miami Beach Boat Show next week....Take care
outragesteve posted 02-10-2011 05:01 PM ET (US)
Mercury had a vertical trim built into the mid-section on it's racing outboards. If I remember, my engine had a 3" adjustment via a toggle on my steering wheel. On my tunnel boat it provided height adjustment for rough/smooth water and additional bow lift to trim for maximum speed. Although the same mid-section was used on offshore racing boats, rules dictated you could not adjust engine height while underway. It was a very clean, simple system that actually raised and lowered the steering swivel pin vertically.

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Author	Topic: Likelihood That Outboard Manufacturers Will Incorporate Power Jack Plates Into Stock Engines
contender	posted 02-09-2011 06:15 PM ET (US) I'm getting ready to re-[do] my 25 Contender, and I was thinking about the trim and bracket. Do you think the manufacturers of outboards like Honda, Evinrude, Yamaha, Mercury, and the rest will ever incorporate a lift bracket into their engine mount? Or this could be offered as a part and option. Then and now all the engines will tilt, trim, and go up and down, however, this would tend to put the bracket people out of business.
Buckda	posted 02-09-2011 08:21 PM ET (US) OMC did it in the 80's. It was called a SeaDrive and you could get one as an option on a Boston Whaler.
jimh	posted 02-09-2011 09:11 PM ET (US) I don't think this is likely.
Newtauk1	posted 02-09-2011 09:28 PM ET (US) Maybe Twin Cities will do a group buy with enough orders, complain that the original people are not coming through and then be out of stock.
Binkster	posted 02-09-2011 09:34 PM ET (US) I think you have a great idea. Most people running big engine use a lift bracket anyway, it might add to the cost but hydraulic brackets don`t come cheap anyway. With today's modern props you need to be able to change the running height of your outboard. I think back in the `60`s OMC had some kind of manual adjustment on the engine bracket enabling you to change ride height. Setback lift brackets would still be manufactured by outside sources.
Tohsgib	posted 02-10-2011 11:23 AM ET (US) SeaDrives did not move vertical as far as I know.
Binkster	posted 02-10-2011 11:34 AM ET (US) Nick, you are right (again) they did not. There only attribute was that they could be installed on boats with a full transom. Not very popular after a short existence.
towboater	posted 02-10-2011 11:42 AM ET (US) Great suggestion Contender, I agree mfg's would be wise to offer the option incorporated into the engine design and color. After $15k, seems to me another 1.5 is cost effective if it increases performance and value?
pcrussell50	posted 02-10-2011 11:53 AM ET (US) The V6 bass boats and a lot of the fast boats have them. In fact, it's probably pretty hard to find one that doesn't. Of course, the lift bracket's aren't made by the engine maker. I can _almost_ see a good case that the lift bracket _should_ be made or specified by, or offered by the hull manufacturer. That way, in this day and age, where most high end boats come with the motor, like Whalers, the hull designers might already have done the homework as far as how much setback to use, and established guidelines for when and how much to raise and in what conditions and what performance to expect. I'm still not sure why slow boats like Whalers need jack plates, unless you plan to run long periods of time, off plane, in water that is actually shallow enough to damage a prop or skeg. I would be too nervous in those conditions to have much fun anyway. -Peter
Tom W Clark	posted 02-10-2011 12:04 PM ET (US) I have often wondered why the outboard manufacturers are not already incorporating vertical height adjustment into their motors, but I am sure the day will come and that it will be as common as power trim-n-tilt is today and it will yield the same performance enhancements that hydraulic trim does. Can you imagine operating your Whaler without power trim? It was not all that long ago that trim-n-tilt was an expensive option, and only for large outboards. Today you can get power trim on almost any outboard motor and it is standard equipment on the vast majority of them. The electro-hydraulic architecture is already present on these motors so adapting it to serve vertical height adjustment should be easy. The challenge is redesigning the very simple and very robust pivot point of the tilt tube on outboards.
jharrell	posted 02-10-2011 01:24 PM ET (US) quote: I'm still not sure why slow boats like Whalers need jack plates, unless you plan to run long periods of time, off plane, in water that is actually shallow enough to damage a prop or skeg. I would be too nervous in those conditions to have much fun anyway. Small Whalers like the classic Montauk and Outrage 18 are very good hybrid boats. Because of their shallow draft with a jack plate they can make it into very skinny water, while still having the sea keeping ability to go offshore, where lowering the jackplate all the way can be beneficial. For someone like me who goes very shallow in rivers and still goes in deeper water around Tampa Bay, the classic Montauk is a great boat, it will be even more versatile once I get my CMC jackplate installed.
contender	posted 02-10-2011 03:59 PM ET (US) Tom: I have to agree with you but, I think the way they can do it is, The pivot point would stay the same but the entire unit would raise, This would only work on the outboards that choose to use a Hydraulic steering system,(still have the same pivot point with a hydraulic cylinder steering) because the steering hoses would be flexible. This really would be the best of both worlds....They put a guy on the moon I think this should be a no brain-er in comparison...Maybe I will be talking to the Evinrude Engineers at the Miami Beach Boat Show next week....Take care
outragesteve	posted 02-10-2011 05:01 PM ET (US) Mercury had a vertical trim built into the mid-section on it's racing outboards. If I remember, my engine had a 3" adjustment via a toggle on my steering wheel. On my tunnel boat it provided height adjustment for rough/smooth water and additional bow lift to trim for maximum speed. Although the same mid-section was used on offshore racing boats, rules dictated you could not adjust engine height while underway. It was a very clean, simple system that actually raised and lowered the steering swivel pin vertically.